Guild Wars 2

I’d like to know from someone who plays both proficiently. I can say that I play all light armored classes confidently enough to hold on my own 1v1 and contribute positive on team fights

Attempting to learn engie and it’s been….tricky

Engi.

The reason? Grenades. Why? Because Grenade skills can miss without your opponent pressing the dodge button. And because slick shoes isn’t viable anymore, you can’t say Engi is an easy mode class because that would be ignorant.

Yeah sure Flamethrower isn’t hard to play but at least it has 10 million counterplays compared to Ele, Mesmer, Guard, Ranger, in which those four classes just spam defensive mechanics and reliable damage.

Ele just spams evades while dealing damage, it takes no skill. Thief D/P is just as hard. Non-GS Zerker Warrior is hard as well.

TL;DR Pick Engi.

Engi is probably a bit harder because it doesn’t really use rotations like Ele does. It’s more about taking advantage of opportunities by knowing which of your skills you should use at that time.

Although the HGH elixirs builds these days are a lot easier than what Engi was in the past.

I have both Champion Genius and Magus and its definitely Engi.

probably depends on what you’re like. I could never get anywhere with ele.

choovanski.5462:

probably depends on what you’re like. I could never get anywhere with ele.

A lot of eles say the same thing about engie. You should give d/d ele a chance, I know I live longer on ele than I do engie

Swapping kits is really not the same as swapping attunements. Landing skills is what makes it tricky for me. I’m talking nades and that wrench tool 3 skill and that flamethrower 2 skill. It’s like most engie skills are as hard to land as ele fire dagger 5. Ok that’s exaggerating a bit but no joke about engie having harder to land skills

trytonianYeti.4389:

choovanski.5462:

probably depends on what you’re like. I could never get anywhere with ele.

A lot of eles say the same thing about engie. You should give d/d ele a chance, I know I live longer on ele than I do engie

ele has no ‘thump’, it’s playstyle just isn’t tactile enough. never could get engaged on the class. jammed some staff & s/f then mostly gave up on it.

ele is pretty rigid & it’s all about rotations. engineer is all about making up cool skill combos & juggling skill cooldowns. its a similar but very different playstyle. i find engineer fits how i would play instinctually more than ele, but maybe thats my 3+ years on the class talking hahaha.

not dying all game is a pretty common occurrence on my warrior, a little bit less so on engineer. scrapper with cele has crazy sustain & might.

Engie used to be super fun back in the turret, bomb heals and cele rifle days (the condi from nades and IP were amazing). I never managed to like it post June 23 but can’t wait for scrapper coz OMG it’s time again, to lay down the law.

Vapour.7348:

Engie used to be super fun back in the turret

Yes, winning 1v1s while afk was fun.

Belial.9350:

Vapour.7348:

Engie used to be super fun back in the turret

Yes, winning 1v1s while afk was fun.

Just figured most current d/d ele players are previous turret engi and will next all become revenant. lmao
Time goes by, facerollers remain and adapt

RevanCorana.8942:

Belial.9350:

Vapour.7348:

Engie used to be super fun back in the turret

Yes, winning 1v1s while afk was fun.

Just figured most current d/d ele players are previous turret engi and will next all become revenant. lmao
Time goes by, facerollers remain and adapt

SUCH FAIL… picking my comment to make it appear I only played turret.

To make your day, yes I loved parking my turrets at home or mid and then AFK to watch Friends on telly. I’m sure I or my fellow turreteers have effortlessly downed you while we were in the bathroom

mechanics: engi
role: ele

as ele you’re supposed to watch your allies’ hp bars, peel for them and heal/cleanse them when they need it. on engi you also have to do that to a certain degree but not as much as on ele. barely any ele you encounter in soloQ will do that though

Engi has more situational rotations (not harder) per class, ele in my opinion has a much smoother curve on rotations, you literally just try to win an attrition battle in a 1v1 or support your teammates + dmg in a 2v2 or full support with some dmg in 3 or higher matchups.

Both classes are situational, ele is more forgiving (imo) because your main “dmg” spike can miss but you can sustain to another spike, engi is not even a contest on sustaining, because it largely relies on a large combo of stealth + invuln waiting for heal or some variation in a sustained fight “if” you miss your combo.

Personally from playing ele, I felt like it was more forgiving, only on 1 occasion I was playing fire and I assume phanta was running earth, and in a tourny style setting, his hp was around 30-40% I was around 85-95% hp until he got +1 to win the fight, but this game isn’t based around 1v1s (and I was brushing up on ele for 2hrs that day) but build vs build is another discussion.

To make the discussion easier, in an engi v engi fight, there’s so many variables that can lead to a loss, but if it is an ele v ele, whoever landed fire the most won.

What has a higher skill cap? A house with 10 bedrooms or a house with 20?

Correct answer is neither. When moving from a 10 bedroom to 20 bedroom there is a few days that in the night you may need to remember exactly where the light switches are, or where the first stair of the staircase is. After a few days you remember what room is where and what that room is used for.

Ele and engi are claimed to require a higher skill cap, but don’t believe the hype. Both just require a longer immersion period. After that they are no more, or less difficult to use. In some regards I think of has easier on some points. However both do benefit from good hotkey placements.

It’s kinda narrow-minded to just talk about hard to master classes, because there are huge differences between certain builds. if you talk about mechanically challenging, there are a multitude or aspects to consider:

1) Number of skills available (more skills equals more CD’s to keep in mind and more options to choose from)
2) Number and impact of very timing-critical skills (reaction-speed). Best example is interrupts. An interrupt with for example powerblock attached is way harder to use effectively than, let’s say Drake’s breath.
3) Ground-targeted VS player-targeted: IMHO, one of the hardest builds to play are those where you are constantly forced to change between aim-sensitive ground-target skills and player-targeted ones. D/D Ele for example has almost only skills you can fire off without having a specific target, this makes quick aiming quite a bit less important.
4) required APM: There are builds/skills where you need many more clicks to use them effectively than other. One of the highest APM-requirements is definitely Fresh Air Ele. To use this build effectively, you simply need to click more buttons in the same amount of time.

Some of the hardest builds to use are IMHO fresh air ele and powerblock mantra-mesmer (that doesn’t simply rely on using the interrupts as free stuns cuz of confounding suggestions).

D/D-Ele is actually pretty easy to use in terms of required mechanical skill (IMHO, much easier than staff-ele). There are Engi-builds, like marauder Nade-Engi with multiple Kits, that are pretty hard mechanically because of the number of skills, clicks needed, reaction speed etc.

So simply in terms of mechanics, Ele has probably the hardest to play build overall (fresh air), but most other Engi builds (especially marauder nade with 2 kits) are harder to play mechanically than for example D/D-Ele.

Fresh air is braindead garbage compared to anything Engi does when it’s on Grenades.

All you do on Fresh Air is bait dodges with Air 2 fire/air or counter pressure with dragon tooth. And Fresh Air can’t get reflected and has actual tracking. Just because something isn’t viable that doesn’t mean it takes skill.

Like even Mace Warrior takes more skill than Fresh Air. That’s how braindead Ele is as a class.

i think kit engi has the highest skill ceiling

on this thread – Xghoul is one of the top pvp engies in the game. Jekkt and choovanski are veterans at their respective mains. Others have shared interesting perspectives as well so don’t forget to go over them.

Engies are not as diverse as they used to be but they love hoarding my character slots. I have 3 pvp engie builds I use right now – dire, cele, marauder/soldier and would need to add 2 more for scrapper….sigh

Eles and Engies are amazing at capture based objectives

Engies have a higher skill cap and requires more time to excel at mechanically

But I will go as far as to say that Engies have the best healing skill in the entire game. Turrets heal, regen, water field, blast finisher for more heals or might, condi cleanse, low CD. When I get bored with it and try something new, I end up always going back to it. My engie is married to it.

Edit: I meant Rabid not Dire. Wow such noob.

Thanks guys.

I wont give up on engie and will continue learning its mechanics.

Right now I’m playing the build with nades rifle and marauder ammy.

What are your favorite opening combos? Like when you are capping home and have to defend from an incoming intruder (usually ranger, Mesmer or ele)

I played bothat some matches (about 700 ele, 400 engi) and i think they are both about the same. Maybe engi is a little bit harder, as you cannot rela on any rotation. But the difference is very small.

As an engi player of about 100 ranked games I feel like engi is more of a style of play than about mechanical skill. I got the hang of it quite quickly yet I can’t seem to play warrior, mesmer or ele for the life of me.

I think I play ele “ok.” I typically do better on staff than dagger/dagger (go figure), but I can at least survive. Still need to work on the dagger skill rotations.

However, I can’t seem to play an engi no matter what I try. shrug

Nier.8741:

Engi.

The reason? Grenades. Why? Because Grenade skills can miss without your opponent pressing the dodge button. And because slick shoes isn’t viable anymore, you can’t say Engi is an easy mode class because that would be ignorant.

Yeah sure Flamethrower isn’t hard to play but at least it has 10 million counterplays compared to Ele, Mesmer, Guard, Ranger, in which those four classes just spam defensive mechanics and reliable damage.

Ele just spams evades while dealing damage, it takes no skill. Thief D/P is just as hard. Non-GS Zerker Warrior is hard as well.

TL;DR Pick Engi.

People think shout warrior is difficult?

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nier.8741:

Engi.

The reason? Grenades. Why? Because Grenade skills can miss without your opponent pressing the dodge button. And because slick shoes isn’t viable anymore, you can’t say Engi is an easy mode class because that would be ignorant.

Yeah sure Flamethrower isn’t hard to play but at least it has 10 million counterplays compared to Ele, Mesmer, Guard, Ranger, in which those four classes just spam defensive mechanics and reliable damage.

Ele just spams evades while dealing damage, it takes no skill. Thief D/P is just as hard. Non-GS Zerker Warrior is hard as well.

TL;DR Pick Engi.

People think shout warrior is difficult?

I think he is talking about zerker warrior that doesn’t equip GS.
But honestly I found that just unviable rather than being hard-to-play.

Exciton.8942:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nier.8741:

Engi.

The reason? Grenades. Why? Because Grenade skills can miss without your opponent pressing the dodge button. And because slick shoes isn’t viable anymore, you can’t say Engi is an easy mode class because that would be ignorant.

Yeah sure Flamethrower isn’t hard to play but at least it has 10 million counterplays compared to Ele, Mesmer, Guard, Ranger, in which those four classes just spam defensive mechanics and reliable damage.

Ele just spams evades while dealing damage, it takes no skill. Thief D/P is just as hard. Non-GS Zerker Warrior is hard as well.

TL;DR Pick Engi.

People think shout warrior is difficult?

I think he is talking about zerker warrior that doesn’t equip GS.
But honestly I found that just unviable rather than being hard-to-play.

I disagree. you can drop GS for X/shield while keeping the hammer. take sword to make up for lost mobility or go axe for killer burst. ham axe/sh is slow, but the amount of cc & pressure the build puts out is nuts. plus you get that great 20sec cd 3sec block. i prefer having a shield than not.

sw/sh ham is still my go to set for full zerker warrior in wvw. even played some GS a/sh last night, but ended up going back to sw/sh ham.

choovanski.5462:

Exciton.8942:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Nier.8741:

Engi.

The reason? Grenades. Why? Because Grenade skills can miss without your opponent pressing the dodge button. And because slick shoes isn’t viable anymore, you can’t say Engi is an easy mode class because that would be ignorant.

Yeah sure Flamethrower isn’t hard to play but at least it has 10 million counterplays compared to Ele, Mesmer, Guard, Ranger, in which those four classes just spam defensive mechanics and reliable damage.

Ele just spams evades while dealing damage, it takes no skill. Thief D/P is just as hard. Non-GS Zerker Warrior is hard as well.

TL;DR Pick Engi.

People think shout warrior is difficult?

I think he is talking about zerker warrior that doesn’t equip GS.
But honestly I found that just unviable rather than being hard-to-play.

I disagree. you can drop GS for X/shield while keeping the hammer. take sword to make up for lost mobility or go axe for killer burst. ham axe/sh is slow, but the amount of cc & pressure the build puts out is nuts. plus you get that great 20sec cd 3sec block. i prefer having a shield than not.

sw/sh ham is still my go to set for full zerker warrior in wvw. even played some GS a/sh last night, but ended up going back to sw/sh ham.

I have yet to meet your fashionista Charr.

Anyway, I did some 1v1 against burn guards at a dueling server. I’m not even a good warrior but it’s interesting how fast burn guards go down, why ppl say they’re op is beyond me. I wasn’t even using shouts for cleansing. Just axe/sh gs stance w/cleansing ire

trytonianYeti.4389:

I’d like to know from someone who plays both proficiently. I can say that I play all light armored classes confidently enough to hold on my own 1v1 and contribute positive on team fights

Attempting to learn engie and it’s been….tricky

Engi harder to play by a long shot. They actually have to put efforts into trying to aim their attacks. Ele’s most kitten are aoe and there hit box is big on key abilities.

I think what you are asking and what answers you are getting are 2 different things.

Q. Who has a higher skill ceiling (is harder to master)?
A. Neither. All classes in this game honestly have basically the same skill-ceiling to play properly. Every meta build has many nuances and minor actions needed to extract as much value from the build as possible within a match, such that you really only ever see a handful of players reach that potential in top tourney settings.

Q. Who has a lower skill floor (is easier to gain enough competence to have some success with)?
A. There I would say it is D/D ele at the moment, but soldier HGH engie isn’t far behind. Honestly, the builds with the lowest skill floors are usually those that are strongest and most forgiving of mistakes at any given time. With that in mind, you can pick up ele, learn a basic rotation, and have a good amount of success in low and mid-tier play.

Jekkt.6045:

mechanics: engi
role: ele

as ele you’re supposed to watch your allies’ hp bars, peel for them and heal/cleanse them when they need it. on engi you also have to do that to a certain degree but not as much as on ele. barely any ele you encounter in soloQ will do that though

Also, dealing the frustration of trying to provide cleanses/heals to moving team-mates, who seem to be actively evading your attempts to support them.

Hmm…probably depends on the person. I primarily play engi now, but I found ele to be harder to really nail down due to the cooldown on the attunements. With engi, you can always swap back to the kit you need, but with ele, you need to plan ahead a bit.

This assumes a high level of play though. People newer to ele can probably just get by just rotating through the attunements.

Belial.9350:

Vapour.7348:

Engie used to be super fun back in the turret

Yes, winning 1v1s while afk was fun.

anyone who makes this remark clearly was an idiot who sucked at the game

The Only players that can complain about turrets being unfair to them were those running pure condi builds as turrets were inmune to conditions

turrets were easy to counter by anyone with a brain and some Power in their build

in the current state of the game engi currently sucks

but scrapper does seem like it ll shine some light to the engi class

Rezzet.3614:

in the current state of the game engi currently sucks

but scrapper does seem like it ll shine some light to the engi class

I think scrapper is the best elite spec, better than reaper – and I’m a necro main.

The mechanics of the engi are a little harder to master than those of the ele.
However it is a much more forgiving class, unless you are playing celestial bunker d/d it’s much harder to stay alive on the ele because of the lack of blocks on short cooldown and weapon swap when in different range. Staff is particularly unforgiving because of how slow the skills are, you can get cleaved to death with 2-3 hits in the cast time of a meteor shower because ele has the least hp and armor.

Master? That depends on your definition of mastery.

Do you mean master the meta build? Then engi.
Do you mean master every build the class owns? Then its ele.