Guild Wars 2

As far as I’m concerned, MMOs are supposed to have progression. We start small and we build up with mostly everything we do. We level up to reach new zones with new content as well as new dungeons. We skill up professions in order to craft better items. Even World vs. World has some kind of purpose, that is gaining useful “boons”. So far, the sPvP does seem kind of useless, aside from being fun. It reminds more of some FPS multiplayers than any MMO PvP I’ve seen. Let’s say its purpose WAS glory and ranks – ok. But what do they mean other than “feeling better about myself”? Higher ranked players don’t seem separated from lower-ranked players, higher-ranked people don’t get much benefits from being a higher rank. And the gear? To me personally, looks aren’t everything, I’d like to know I have a real good goal by PvP-ing, more importantly I’d like to actually be rewarded for being good in PvP – with something that makes me more powerful. But let’s assume I’m fine with the current gear progression – what good does it do for me? I can’t wear that gear anywhere, but in sPvP, tPvP and the Mists. Frankly, when I join the Mists, I feel as if I just closed Guild Wars 2 and opened a completely different game, because what I do there is totally separated from the rest of GW2 world. “What happens in the Mists, stays in the Mists” kind of concept.

My suggestion is that PvP be separated into brackets (rankwise). Like, players from ranks 1-10 in one bracket, 11-20 in another and so on. As for rewards, keep the good looking gear and chests, but add upgrades to sigils and runes maybe?

As much as I’d like to agree with Sezu about “Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them.” I can’t. You have to understand that there’s a very thick line separating fun casual games and MMOs. MMOs are made to constantly keep a person busy, they are made to be played for hundreds of days of played time, unlike other games that have a span of 20-40 hours. As such, they should have a meaningful progression that makes a player feel like the time he/she spent playing was for something.

That is of course my own opinion. Much respect for all fellow players and ArenaNET. Salute.

I want to be the very best, like no one ever was!

Vindicator.5384:

As far as I’m concerned, MMOs are supposed to have progression. We start small and we build up with mostly everything we do. We level up to reach new zones with new content as well as new dungeons. We skill up professions in order to craft better items. Even World vs. World has some kind of purpose, that is gaining useful “boons”. So far, the sPvP does seem kind of useless, aside from being fun. It reminds more of some FPS multiplayers than any MMO PvP I’ve seen. Let’s say its purpose WAS glory and ranks – ok. But what do they mean other than “feeling better about myself”? Higher ranked players don’t seem separated from lower-ranked players, higher-ranked people don’t get much benefits from being a higher rank. And the gear? To me personally, looks aren’t everything, I’d like to know I have a real good goal by PvP-ing, more importantly I’d like to actually be rewarded for being good in PvP – with something that makes me more powerful. But let’s assume I’m fine with the current gear progression – what good does it do for me? I can’t wear that gear anywhere, but in sPvP, tPvP and the Mists. Frankly, when I join the Mists, I feel as if I just closed Guild Wars 2 and opened a completely different game, because what I do there is totally separated from the rest of GW2 world. “What happens in the Mists, stays in the Mists” kind of concept.

My suggestion is that PvP be separated into brackets (rankwise). Like, players from ranks 1-10 in one bracket, 11-20 in another and so on. As for rewards, keep the good looking gear and chests, but add upgrades to sigils and runes maybe?

As much as I’d like to agree with Sezu about “Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them.” I can’t. You have to understand that there’s a very thick line separating fun casual games and MMOs. MMOs are made to constantly keep a person busy, they are made to be played for hundreds of days of played time, unlike other games that have a span of 20-40 hours. As such, they should have a meaningful progression that makes a player feel like the time he/she spent playing was for something.

That is of course my own opinion. Much respect for all fellow players and ArenaNET. Salute.

Couldn’t have said it better ! +1

It’s the same as the pve argument. You want rank brackets right? Well, if you’re getting better stats, and the other guys in your bracket are getting better stats too, the net change is only cosmetic anyway.

This way everyone is on equal footing, and the only reason to want gear progression is if you can’t handle that.

Honestly if they just let me use some armor/weapon skins outside of the mists I’d be more inclined to continue doing the sPvP. I spent my first 150 or so hours on this game doing nothing but spvp but since I got a character to level 80 in the main game my desire to continue sPvPing has waned a bit.

I don’t need gear with stats or anything like that, as my favorite part about the spvp is the equal footing everyone has. I’d just like to have something to show for my time spent in the mists outside of the mists. (besides titles)

Vindicator.5384:

As for rewards, keep the good looking gear and chests, but add upgrades to sigils and runes maybe?

So you will have people with different levels of gear which makes for crappy, unbalanced PvP, no thanks, one of the appealing things about GW2 is they do away with crap like gear differences in sPvP.

Vindicator.5384:

As much as I’d like to agree with Sezu about “Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them.” I can’t. You have to understand that there’s a very thick line separating fun casual games and MMOs. MMOs are made to constantly keep a person busy, they are made to be played for hundreds of days of played time, unlike other games that have a span of 20-40 hours.

People play many sorts of games for hundreds of days that have either no progression or a very minimal amount (LoL, DOTA, Starcraft, various FPS, various strategy games like the Solar Empire series, etc)

Vindicator.5384:

As such, they should have a meaningful progression that makes a player feel like the time he/she spent playing was for something.

Until the player in question realizes:

1 – They are actually bored to death by the actual gameplay and the reason they are playing is to “progress”.
2 – That “progessing” their non-exsitant pixels is not meaningful in the slighest and that they should be spending their time on work/school/friends/family, etc and that given point 1, decide it is a waste of time.

alanis.6094:

Pawstruck.9708:

Tongue-in-cheek trolling aside, I think the OP does kind of have a point. PVP gear is only aesthetic and can ONLY BE WORN IN PVP, so it doesn’t really feel all that special.

I mean, sure you play for fun. Duh. But an MMORPG is supposed to give unique feelings of progression, and you know it.

You progress into cooler looking gear.

Which we can’t tell apart because of the krass colour coding in sPvP.

To me, the problem is not in the fact that a regular PvPer doesn’t get the new mothakitten gear with better stats than the other. It’s never been the philosophy of A.Net, and anyone whining about it should have informed himself before buying GW2.

The actual problem is the fact that, apart from (random) new skins, and the eventual title, you get nothing for playing PvP.

Someone pointed out that it should be enough to have fun while doing it. Right. But then, I think a little back to GW1, and looking at the two main PvP experiences you got there:

- The GvGs were always the same thing: kill the enemy Lord, with the only difference being in the maps available. But, you got a reward, namely in the ladder system. The actual tPvP system is similar to GvG in structure (same objective, different maps, albeit there’re still very few maps to play in, not giving a lot of variety), but we lack the ladder system that provided, in GW1, the reward.

- The Tomb, or HoH thereafter: no ladder at all, the only reward was your rank to display to others. But it had different gameplays in every round, with different objectives while you progressed in the single tournament. tPvP gives the same reward as Tomb/HoH (displayed rank), but no variety in the single steps of the tournament.

I’m sure (hope?) that A.Net has a plan to expand a lot the competitive PvP experience, adding new modes “just for ranks” and a new mode (or even the same one that we can actually play) with a ladder, thus giving competitive players a reason to play and “show off” to friends and opponents.

It was fun in GW1 when, a couple times, I and my guildies were facing in GvG the War Machines (back in the oooold days), the first thought was “we’re doomed”. Yes, it was fun knowing that you had to fight one of the best guild in GW1, it gave you a higher purpose to perform better because you’re against the “numbers 1”. But we needed the ladder system to experience this thrill.

So please A.Net, hurry and go live with a ladder system and/or different modes for PvP aside the domination one.

Dee Jay.2460:

alanis.6094:

Pawstruck.9708:

Tongue-in-cheek trolling aside, I think the OP does kind of have a point. PVP gear is only aesthetic and can ONLY BE WORN IN PVP, so it doesn’t really feel all that special.

I mean, sure you play for fun. Duh. But an MMORPG is supposed to give unique feelings of progression, and you know it.

You progress into cooler looking gear.

Which we can’t tell apart because of the krass colour coding in sPvP.

And the fact that it can’t even be worn in PvE cities like town clothes, so the best PvPers are running around Lions Arch as level 10 nubs XD

@sylosi none of those games you listed are mmorpgs. GW2 = mmorpg

I think if they add an actual personal ranking ladder that is viewable by everyone people will be happy. They could even add little icons for people at various tiers of the ranking system. Like military type ranking icons for people in top .01%, top .5% top 1% etc.

Latorn.4209:

Dee Jay.2460:

alanis.6094:

Pawstruck.9708:

Tongue-in-cheek trolling aside, I think the OP does kind of have a point. PVP gear is only aesthetic and can ONLY BE WORN IN PVP, so it doesn’t really feel all that special.

I mean, sure you play for fun. Duh. But an MMORPG is supposed to give unique feelings of progression, and you know it.

You progress into cooler looking gear.

Which we can’t tell apart because of the krass colour coding in sPvP.

And the fact that it can’t even be worn in PvE cities like town clothes, so the best PvPers are running around Lions Arch as level 10 nubs XD

When you unlock a skin, getting a town clothes version would be nice

Veteran MMO players are the only kind of gamers I know that actually needs a reason to play a game. If you’re so focused on getting rewards, I suggest you start playing some poker instead, were you can actually win or loss something of value. Games are made for your entertainment. That’s what you get in return for your money, just like when you pay to see a movie.

The point of PvP is what it should always have been in every game… to PvP. Having little concern of gear is absolutely fantastic in this game. I just log on and PvP because I want to PvP not because I want gear. People who PvP because they want gear should just not PvP at all. When you PvP, you PvP because you love it.

Sprawl.3891
@sylosi none of those games you listed are mmorpgs. GW2 = mmorpg

Erm, yes I know, that was my point.

The person I quoted, was trying to claim people play MMORPGs for hundreds of hours and other games for 20-40 hours, and that this is allegedly due to “progression”, hence my point was he was wrong, people play all sorts of games for hundreds of hours, many with zero or minimal progression.

Sylosi.6503:

So you will have people with different levels of gear which makes for crappy, unbalanced PvP, no thanks, one of the appealing things about GW2 is they do away with crap like gear differences in sPvP.

We all have our own opinions after all. I respect yours.

Sylosi.6503:

People play many sorts of games for hundreds of days that have either no progression or a very minimal amount (LoL, DOTA, Starcraft, various FPS, various strategy games like the Solar Empire series, etc)

LoL, DOTA, Starcraft, various FPS, various strategy games are not MMOs. It’s like saying “Hey, some games have first-person camera, why don’t GW2 have first-person camera” or “I can build defense towers in Warcraft 3, why can’t I do that in GW2”. You can’t go out looking at other game genres and try to bring them to MMO. All those games you’ve mentioned I dislike and that’s why I play an MMO.

Sylosi.6503:

Until the player in question realizes:

1 – They are actually bored to death by the actual gameplay and the reason they are playing is to “progress”.
2 – That “progressing” their non-existant pixels is not meaningful in the slightest and that they should be spending their time on work/school/friends/family, etc and that given point 1, decide it is a waste of time.

Again, we all have our opinions. My older sister doesn’t care for progression, that’s why she plays Farmville. There are people who (like you) don’t like to get involved as much with games, and yet there are those who do. I like progression and personally I have FUN by progressing. With all due respect, this is a topic about discussing “What’s the point of PvP”, not lectures on what we gamers should do with our lives, work, schools, friends etc. We all have our ways of living our lives after all, don’t we? I appreciate the concern though.

One last thing I would love to add. I understand most players are concerned about balance should ArenaNet add gear upgrades for PvP. Guild Wars 2 itself is against competitive gameplay – no world PvP, level adjustments according to zones etc. But PvP (Player versus Player) IS competitive. PvP-ers compete, for higher rank, for better titles, for better gear, for better everything. Gear should be balanced in tournaments, but not in sPvP.

Emotes, a banner, anything would be nice.

I’m all about having “fun”. But GW2 (last I checked) is in the MMORPG genre is it not? If I just wanted to burn through match after match after match of playing other opponents, I would go play many of the hundreds of FPS games out there. This is not an FPS. I do not want to play an FPS because FPS games you usually don’t “earn” anything as a reward for your character that you get to keep. Moreover, you usually don’t even have a “character” either; at least not one that is perpetual anyways.

I think I speak for 90% of the community when I say this…we like the “fun” factor. We do NOT like the lack of reward for it. There have been hundreds of ideas thrown to anet to consider. Please consider your clients here.

Vindicator.5384:

Sylosi.6503:

So you will have people with different levels of gear which makes for crappy, unbalanced PvP, no thanks, one of the appealing things about GW2 is they do away with crap like gear differences in sPvP.

We all have our own opinions after all. I respect yours.

It goes without saying it is my opinion, though I would add, that one aspect is fact in the respect that differing levels of gear is more unbalanced than everyone having the same level of gear. I also seem to remember that gear equality is one of Anets stated design principles for structured PvP, precisely because it provides better balance / makes balancing easier.

Vindicator.5384:

Sylosi.6503:

People play many sorts of games for hundreds of days that have either no progression or a very minimal amount (LoL, DOTA, Starcraft, various FPS, various strategy games like the Solar Empire series, etc)

LoL, DOTA, Starcraft, various FPS, various strategy games are not MMOs. It’s like saying “Hey, some games have first-person camera, why don’t GW2 have first-person camera” or “I can build defense towers in Warcraft 3, why can’t I do that in GW2”. You can’t go out looking at other game genres and try to bring them to MMO. All those games you’ve mentioned I dislike and that’s why I play an MMO.

I don’t see how them being different genres makes any difference to the point, YOU compared MMOs to different genres, you claimed that somehow MMOs were special because people played for “hundreds of hours” whilst other games were played for “20 to 40 hours” and this was somehow down to progression, you were wrong, people play all sorts of games for hundreds of hours with zero or minimal progression, you do not need huge amounts of “progression” in MMOs or any other game to keep people playing, your assertion is wrong.

I’d also add that there are many people who don’t play for progression even in mor eprogression heavy MMOs, especially on the PvP front, indeed the forums of games like Rift, LOTRO, etc are full of PvPers who can’t stand having to grind gear, rep, just to be competitve and are far more concerned about things like leaderboards, new maps / PvP content, balance, etc.

Same goes for games like EVE, everyone I know who plays long term is there for the fun / politics, the progression is pretty secondary, granted this is not helped by the passive progression system and that your rich corp / alliance can buy / make pretty much everything in game, but again it is a different type of MMO.

Lipstickxx.1043:

Vindicator.5384:

As far as I’m concerned, MMOs are supposed to have progression. We start small and we build up with mostly everything we do. We level up to reach new zones with new content as well as new dungeons. We skill up professions in order to craft better items. Even World vs. World has some kind of purpose, that is gaining useful “boons”. So far, the sPvP does seem kind of useless, aside from being fun. It reminds more of some FPS multiplayers than any MMO PvP I’ve seen. Let’s say its purpose WAS glory and ranks – ok. But what do they mean other than “feeling better about myself”? Higher ranked players don’t seem separated from lower-ranked players, higher-ranked people don’t get much benefits from being a higher rank. And the gear? To me personally, looks aren’t everything, I’d like to know I have a real good goal by PvP-ing, more importantly I’d like to actually be rewarded for being good in PvP – with something that makes me more powerful. But let’s assume I’m fine with the current gear progression – what good does it do for me? I can’t wear that gear anywhere, but in sPvP, tPvP and the Mists. Frankly, when I join the Mists, I feel as if I just closed Guild Wars 2 and opened a completely different game, because what I do there is totally separated from the rest of GW2 world. “What happens in the Mists, stays in the Mists” kind of concept.

My suggestion is that PvP be separated into brackets (rankwise). Like, players from ranks 1-10 in one bracket, 11-20 in another and so on. As for rewards, keep the good looking gear and chests, but add upgrades to sigils and runes maybe?

As much as I’d like to agree with Sezu about “Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them.” I can’t. You have to understand that there’s a very thick line separating fun casual games and MMOs. MMOs are made to constantly keep a person busy, they are made to be played for hundreds of days of played time, unlike other games that have a span of 20-40 hours. As such, they should have a meaningful progression that makes a player feel like the time he/she spent playing was for something.

That is of course my own opinion. Much respect for all fellow players and ArenaNET. Salute.

Couldn’t have said it better ! +1

I think they were pretty clear from the start this game was a big attempt to branch off the typical MMO path. There are plenty of MMOs out there that offer what you look for, for them to do the same would have brought in more and more complaints of “just like every other MMO”.

I think they’ve done a great job of making the first ever casual MMO with some content to still satisfy hardcore gamers. Gear progression ruins balance, and it’s something I learned the hard way when I used to play WoW. You couldn’t win arena without decent PvE gear to start out with, then you got your good PvP gear later. GW2 makes it to where it’s nothing but your build and your skill and your team play, right from the start, and it never changes. Only strategy changes.

I look at it much the same as logging on with friends to play FIFA online, or CoD… you just play with friends and compete and that’s enough, the MMO stigma is there because you expect this game to be just like the others, and I’m one of those that’s VERY thankful it isn’t… the gear grind is obligatory, because it gives me no advantage other those who have lots of time to play, and likewise, those who have more time than me can’t outgear me, either.

The gear progression is more for the PvE part of this game.

Bulde.3728:

I’m all about having “fun”. But GW2 (last I checked) is in the MMORPG genre is it not? If I just wanted to burn through match after match after match of playing other opponents, I would go play many of the hundreds of FPS games out there. This is not an FPS. I do not want to play an FPS because FPS games you usually don’t “earn” anything as a reward for your character that you get to keep. Moreover, you usually don’t even have a “character” either; at least not one that is perpetual anyways.

I think I speak for 90% of the community when I say this…we like the “fun” factor. We do NOT like the lack of reward for it. There have been hundreds of ideas thrown to anet to consider. Please consider your clients here.

I would venture to say you do not speak for 90% of the community. There is a large part of the MMO community that has been waiting a long time for someone to listen to us about the lack of time grinding out gear. There are literally hundreds of MMOs that will give you what you want, this game is one of very few that gives people like me what I want, and I think that there are far more people looking for something different at this point than people looking for more of the same.

It’s nice to know I could stop playing for a few months and come back and not get whooped every match because I don’t have the gear. There’s no carrot at the end of the stick.

It’s like sitting on your porch drinking a beer, or going to the beach just to lay down and tan. There is no point to those (other than aethestics for tanning), but you do those anyway? Why can’t you just sit down an enjoy the game for being a game?

“My older sister doesn’t care for progression, that’s why she plays Farmville.”
This is interesting because farmville is a game with almost no actual gameplay at all, it is very much a progression game.
Perhaps you should try that insted since it was made clear from the start this wouldn’t be that sort of game?
Asking for gear progression is exactly like asking to build wc3 defense towers, it just isn’t that sort of game.

As to the OP’s question the point is to win, as in any pvp game.
You already have cosmetic progression, pretty sure you’ll get your ladders too.
If what you actually want is to pwn noobs in your uber gear, see above. :P

OP here!

I highly appreciate all the well thought out responses that my query has reaped.

This goes to show me that I shouldn’t try to play this game too often, or mostly, at all.

I agree mostly with Ackinbal. I have a full time job coupled with artistic hobbies and playing a game like this very often for long periods of time seems silly, as like most of you pointed out, it’s supposed to be about the fun factor and not the progression factor.

It could very well be a good thing that one can be as casual as they want with an MMO, and still feel good about it.

The only thing stopping me from playing GW2 as of late are all the bugs. The only professions I find interesting (on a personal level, not speaking for the general populous) are the Elementalist, and Necromancer.

As I’m sure some of you may know, both of those classes aren’t in the best of states yet, and I’m also sure that will change…In time. That time hasn’t come yet, and when it does, I’m sure I’d be more than happy to experiment with builds, and try on this “fun” shoe, but because this game in many ways feels incomplete, I’ll commit myself more to physical hobbies that I can actually go somewhere in life with, and not sit on my computer.

The one thing that GW2 PvP has taught me: Pursue real world hobbies that make my existence meaningful and not substitute physical interaction with that of virtual.

Thank you ANet for helping me grow as a person. +1

If GW1 is anything to go by, you’ll still find people who value played time over anything. Legendaries, rank, titles, armor that takes forever to farm, there’s still plenty of points of difference so that those who play a lot of something to show for it. The difference is that they don’t get an ingame advantage for being unemployed ;p

i like seeing my actual skill progress. that’s progression enough, i reckon.

aydenunited.5729:

Bulde.3728:

I’m all about having “fun”. But GW2 (last I checked) is in the MMORPG genre is it not? If I just wanted to burn through match after match after match of playing other opponents, I would go play many of the hundreds of FPS games out there. This is not an FPS. I do not want to play an FPS because FPS games you usually don’t “earn” anything as a reward for your character that you get to keep. Moreover, you usually don’t even have a “character” either; at least not one that is perpetual anyways.

I think I speak for 90% of the community when I say this…we like the “fun” factor. We do NOT like the lack of reward for it. There have been hundreds of ideas thrown to anet to consider. Please consider your clients here.

I would venture to say you do not speak for 90% of the community. There is a large part of the MMO community that has been waiting a long time for someone to listen to us about the lack of time grinding out gear. There are literally hundreds of MMOs that will give you what you want, this game is one of very few that gives people like me what I want, and I think that there are far more people looking for something different at this point than people looking for more of the same.

It’s nice to know I could stop playing for a few months and come back and not get whooped every match because I don’t have the gear. There’s no carrot at the end of the stick.

You missed my point entirely. I am NOT asking for a carrot on a stick. I’m asking for SOME kind of reward. New skins for my armor is currently it. Do you not agree that is pathetic in terms of reward for doing well?

I like the mechanics and game play, and I’m not asking for a “grind” for the carrot on the stick. What I am asking for however is some kind of reward for the time invested other than “fun”. Its a game. I will have fun playing any kind of game I enjoy. But part of the fun is the reward.

We get bigger bags… new dyes… tons of new armor and weapon skins… titles… I don’t know what else you want that doesn’t include stat gear grinding. Maybe some cash shop gear I suppose but overall I don’t understand what you want as a reward that wouldn’t give someone in PvP a stat advantage over another player.

I find, that there is a fundamental difference in how people look at progression. For me progression is actual improvement of the skills involved in playing the game. That is the progression. Some happen to progress fast, some don’t progress at all. In a way you can say, that we don’t compete on equal terms, since some are just better players. But if anything this should urge people to actually improve instead of grinding.

Grinding is not in my book the same as improving. Getting gear because you play a certain amount of hours and hence get an edge is not fighting on equal terms and is not really showing your skills … the players whom you have an edge over, if you played an equal amount of hours, you should beat anyway.

I can fully understand, that many of you want to accomplish something … same for me. But then it should reflect actual skills and not a grind, and it should not be something that gives you an edge you don’t need. And believe it or not: The “improving thing” and winning the games … for some of us it is actually a reward in itself … even the most important one.

Anyone that wants to earn better gear in PvP just want to be able to stomp over people without actually needing any skill to do so, There re already to many MMO’s availlable for that.

I like the idea a lot that whenever i am beaten that i know it was not because the other guy simply had better gear then me or whenever i win that it was just me and not my gear.

That being said i do not think it is a bad idea that we can earn certain skins that are unique in PvP that we can wear in PvE that sort of show our efforts.

“The one thing that GW2 PvP has taught me: Pursue real world hobbies that make my existence meaningful and not substitute physical interaction with that of virtual.”

Interesting jab. I think it’s wrong to think hobby A is more meaningful to your existence than hobby B, unless you’ve set those standards yourself. I’m not sure why GW2 lead you to that conclusion but more power to you.

Good luck on your journey to live a meaningful existence, wherever that brings you.

Sezu.8564:

“The one thing that GW2 PvP has taught me: Pursue real world hobbies that make my existence meaningful and not substitute physical interaction with that of virtual.”

Interesting jab. I think it’s wrong to think hobby A is more meaningful to your existence than hobby B, unless you’ve set those standards yourself. I’m not sure why GW2 lead you to that conclusion but more power to you.

Good luck on your journey to live a meaningful existence, wherever that brings you.

As much as it seems like a jab, I will fully endorse when people reach these conclusions, because as much as it sounds sarcastic, I would rather someone find happiness than force happiness.

This thread has actually been one of the more interesting threads I’ve seen. I’m surprised how “even” the discussions have been: half seem to seek enjoyment for the sake of enjoyment, and half seem to desire rewards for their time spent. I’m not saying one is “right”, but the game does seem to be leaning towards less tangible reward for sPvP, so the sooner reward-seekers identify that and accommodate, the better.

Also, I realize in my most recent post I spent a paragraph listing “accomplishments” in meatspace (aka R.L.). I’d like to note that all of that garbage was a long-winded way of saying “I’m not impressed by what anyone’s life experience has been, as I know what the business world is like.” To add to it, if you have been in the military, I’ll appreciate the courage to protect your country’s ideals. If you’re an American veteran, I salute you for your service to this country.

However, I’ll still oppose your opinions if I oppose your opinions.

As far as the future of the thread, if it starts to get as philosophical/existential as Sezu would like to take it, I’ll jump back in. Otherwise, I believe my piece has been spoken.

The point of PvP is make a Thief and kill them all with 2 key buttons

aydenunited.5729:

We get bigger bags… new dyes… tons of new armor and weapon skins… titles… I don’t know what else you want that doesn’t include stat gear grinding. Maybe some cash shop gear I suppose but overall I don’t understand what you want as a reward that wouldn’t give someone in PvP a stat advantage over another player.

Uhm…perhaps something I can use on my character ANYWHERE in the game. The fact that I can only use it in sPvP is rediculous. If it is limited to skins only (no stats), dyes, bags, etc., then why not allow for you to take what you have worked hard for in sPvP and take it out into the rest of the world?? That I do not understand at all. If it is purely a “look” then it should cross over.

Maybe if we could convert our hard earned equipment (like pouring 13 slivers into the mystic forge and getting 13 vigil swords when u wanted a whisper sword) onto other items with pvp transmutation skins that u can buy from glory vendors by trading in gear.

The only thing sPVP needs is a ladder system. I want to be matched with equally skilled people. Gear and power progression doesn’t belong in this game though.

I had a long and what I would like to believe was articulate response written up here.

… alas, I just couldn’t get this clip out of my head. Here is my answer:

if you’re talking about tpvp, there’s really no point right now except just to have fun with friends. And if you’re like me who doesn’t really care much about looks, then you might be seeing yourself saying “what’s the point” sometimes. I don’t even play that much anymore. I used to play a lot but after while it gets really old… If the end game pvp is to focus on skilled pvp and no gear advantages then you got to have a ranking system. This game pretty much designed to have a ranking system and I am sure they will put it in eventually. The question is when. I’ll probably take a break and play dota 2 or something till this ranking system is in place.

Uh, you want something you can use anywhere in the game? You already get two things: Dyes and Bags.

Larger bags are valuable no matter what level you are. Dyes can be sold on the trading post no matter what level you are. You can even grind out for rare dyes and large bags to send to your alts later. There, external rewards to grind for.

When paid tourneys come out, you can earn gems. So now you’re getting character rewards that are worth something regardless of level, gold, and gems.

Still not happy? GW2 may not be the game for you.

PvP should reward players with customized hair-cuts that provide bonuses to their Personality stats.

Then, they would have stat-based progression that could make them feel like they were accomplishing something, and the rest of us could laugh at their (+5 Ferocity) Mohawk.

Proven.2854:

Uh, you want something you can use anywhere in the game? You already get two things: Dyes and Bags.

Larger bags are valuable no matter what level you are. Dyes can be sold on the trading post no matter what level you are. You can even grind out for rare dyes and large bags to send to your alts later. There, external rewards to grind for.

When paid tourneys come out, you can earn gems. So now you’re getting character rewards that are worth something regardless of level, gold, and gems.

Still not happy? GW2 may not be the game for you.

Here is the key…."When paid tourneys come out, " Nuff said. So yeah, my point entirely. Right now the rewards are redic.

You already get 2 out of 3 rewards. Not only can you sell dyes for gold to get gems right now, but the paid tourney system releases in 7 days.

Sky.9347:

I had a long and what I would like to believe was articulate response written up here.

… alas, I just couldn’t get this clip out of my head. Here is my answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

The reason of PvP is to crush enemies skulls!