Guild Wars 2

What’s the plan with the lowest health pool, scholar class? They are supposed to be the jack of all trades, master of none, but I don’t even think that they fit the jack of all trades part anymore.

you still have your 4 attunements dont you?

whats the plan with warriors. At least ele is better than warrior.

The plan for eles in PvP? Teamfight and 2v2 support with a damage dealer

Elementalist is in a good spot right now. It’s just that there are two professions that are still too powerful from the previous meta (Scrapper and Reaper). You can support or DPS, just not both at the same time.

A better question is whats the plan for balance?

It doesn’t matter if X becomes good again, there are so many overarching problems with combat right now.

To sit on the bench. From the results of every patch since launch, it’s been made clear that eles:
1) Are not allowed to burst hard
2) Are not allowed to be mobile like thieves
3) Are not allowed to be tanky
4) Are not allowed to be a jack of all trades.

What are we allowed to be? A kitten support that can barely do anything on its own.

The removal of cele wasn’t necessarily a bad thing, it just revealed how fundamentally flawed eles are. Maybe in 5 years eles will actually get the changes it needs.

Shadowflare.2759:

To sit on the bench. From the results of every patch since launch, it’s been made clear that eles:
1) Are not allowed to burst hard
2) Are not allowed to be mobile like thieves
3) Are not allowed to be tanky
4) Are not allowed to be a jack of all trades.

What are we allowed to be? A kitten support that can barely do anything on its own.

The removal of cele wasn’t necessarily a bad thing, it just revealed how fundamentally flawed eles are. Maybe in 5 years eles will actually get the changes it needs.

5) Are not allowed to have a decent elite.

So much bad things happened to ele: nerfing, introducing cele and locking ele to it, removing cele and don’t giving proper viable options. That class will need rework not cosmetic changes.

6) Are not allowed to have a fireball.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

So much bad things happened to ele: nerfing, introducing cele and locking ele to it, removing cele and don’t giving proper viable options. That class will need rework not cosmetic changes.

6) Are not allowed to have a fireball.

Huh?…people have been asking for a rework for like….4 kittening years…I doubt anything will be done…ever

Anet doesn’t plan. It’s a crapshoot. Make changes and add crap until something sticks by fluke. I suppose that’s sort of a plan…

Supreme.3164:

Mem no Fushia.7604:

So much bad things happened to ele: nerfing, introducing cele and locking ele to it, removing cele and don’t giving proper viable options. That class always needed rework not cosmetic changes that they serve to us.

6) Are not allowed to have a fireball.

Huh?…people have been asking for a rework for like….4 kittening years…I doubt anything will be done…ever

Corrected.

To be fair if they would decrease the size of fireball to the point it becomes invisible that could actualy become a buff.

MyPuppy.8970:

To be fair if they would decrease the size of fireball to the point it becomes invisible that could actualy become a buff.

Yes, our skills are too transparent in way which we deliver them, so making aa transparent would actually give us some trickery:)

Warlord.9074:

whats the plan with warriors. At least ele is better than warrior.

lel … a warrior can OS an ele now =D (unless random reflect => if u don’t have might signet) so I would say… ele is garbage now …

Okay it can still heal pretty well … but dude… u can take vitality then no thougness (1k8 armor and 18k Hp) or take thougness and then no vitality (13k Hp and 2k2 armor)

Remember ele is a light class… and paladin is just bad…. (cause of no healing power)

The problem of the ele is that in the past yewrs has been always played with Celestial, why had the chance to use all the statistics of that amulet with every single builds he had and with the might spam was able to inflict high direct and condition damage still whith a bunker build.

Now there’s no more a bunker build and the ele need to leart to play a role.
But there’s a lot of roles a ele can do.

The fresh air build is still a really high dps build, for example, can be a support/healer, a hybrid between direct and condition damage, and with the staff can inflict insane AoE damage, a really good thing for spvp.

The ele have a really high dps and different defensive skills, you need only a “meta” build to follow and be happy, nothing more.

Wait for the next meta builds and let’s see what happen

Silv.9207:

The problem of the ele is that in the past yewrs has been always played with Celestial, why had the chance to use all the statistics of that amulet with every single builds he had and with the might spam was able to inflict high direct and condition damage still whith a bunker build.

Now there’s no more a bunker build and the ele need to leart to play a role.
But there’s a lot of roles a ele can do.

The fresh air build is still a really high dps build, for example, can be a support/healer, a hybrid between direct and condition damage, and with the staff can inflict insane AoE damage, a really good thing for spvp.

The ele have a really high dps and different defensive skills, you need only a “meta” build to follow and be happy, nothing more.

Wait for the next meta builds and let’s see what happen

You don’t play ele right?

Silv.9207:

The problem of the ele is that in the past yewrs has been always played with Celestial, why had the chance to use all the statistics of that amulet with every single builds he had and with the might spam was able to inflict high direct and condition damage still whith a bunker build.

Now there’s no more a bunker build and the ele need to leart to play a role.
But there’s a lot of roles a ele can do.

The fresh air build is still a really high dps build, for example, can be a support/healer, a hybrid between direct and condition damage, and with the staff can inflict insane AoE damage, a really good thing for spvp.

The ele have a really high dps and different defensive skills, you need only a “meta” build to follow and be happy, nothing more.

Wait for the next meta builds and let’s see what happen

Have you even tried the fresh air build recently? It’s an unreliable spec that does decent at 1 v 1 vs builds with low sustain, but compared to scrapper, it is garbage. Ele dps pales in comparison to what’s available out there, partially because every half of every ele’s builds have to be dedicated to make the eles survive, and partially because lots of our skills are either weak in terms of number, or weak in terms of reliability.

All those things you say we have, we don’t really have. At the same time, you can definitely find another class who can do the same, if not better, with less effort and more safety.

Silv.9207:

The problem of the ele is that in the past yewrs has been always played with Celestial, why had the chance to use all the statistics of that amulet with every single builds he had and with the might spam was able to inflict high direct and condition damage still whith a bunker build.

Now there’s no more a bunker build and the ele need to leart to play a role.
But there’s a lot of roles a ele can do.

The fresh air build is still a really high dps build, for example, can be a support/healer, a hybrid between direct and condition damage, and with the staff can inflict insane AoE damage, a really good thing for spvp.

The ele have a really high dps and different defensive skills, you need only a “meta” build to follow and be happy, nothing more.

Wait for the next meta builds and let’s see what happen

I love that non ele players sharing there wisdom’s…

Are you aware that to do the damage that a thief will do in 2 auto attacks S/F freash air elementalist has to chain combo 5 skills and to be able to do that combo again it has to wait for 12s CD, during that a thief auto attack forever.

If you don’t try it then we discuss it again….

Fresh air ele damage sucks for several reasons.

You have basically only one option for a weapon and that’s a scepter. It’s AA are horrible, you don’t have enough sustained dmg.

You can go dagger and die.

You can go staff and die even before you load in the game.

You can pick tempest and hope you’ll get air overload off. However, due to the amount of cc the game currently has and the cost of overload you’ll probably be dead before you do any significant damage with it.

You have your burst that consists of several skills and even if you land it perfectly, you probably won’t one shot anyone. And then you’re out of cooldowns and can do basically nothing.

Ele just simply cannot be a damage spec in pvp and competitive at the same time. So the only option is support. It that really possible with the removal of celestial? Perhaps, but other classes will probably do better.

They simply should have buffed other sides of ele with the removal of celestial. I’m sure there’s tons of people who would love fresh air back. It was such a fun spec, but the risk/reward wasn’t and still isn’t okay. Work twice as hard and get twice as less.

Why did they buff thief AA but not scepter? Well, I’ve been trying to figure that out ever since the patch.

A lot of you are complaining about eles and that makes sense. Keep in mind that unless you are a rev, reaper, druid, or scrapper, all of the other classes are useless as well.

Everytime the bunker-support type Elementalist gets nerfed, it’s two offensive Elementalist builds that goes down with it. How is it possible to balance this class?

I have always claimed that nerfing the heal to allies on Wash the Pain Away while increasing the radius of the first pulses could be an idea.
::: Nerf heal to allies by 50% on Wash the Pain Away! Increase radius of first pulse to 240, up from 180; increase second radius up to 360 radius, up from 240.

Alekt.5803:

Everytime the bunker-support type Elementalist gets nerfed, it’s two offensive Elementalist builds that goes down with it. How is it possible to balance this class?

I have always claimed that nerfing the heal to allies on Wash the Pain Away while increasing the radius of the first pulses could be an idea.
::: Nerf heal to allies by 50% on Wash the Pain Away! Increase radius of first pulse to 240, up from 180; increase second radius up to 360 radius, up from 240.

Nice another nerf to those eles, and making it more skilless sounds pretty much like Anet tastes

Or just compensate the lack of hp and toughness by having natively more healing power. All classes should have the same fixed amount of base stats before we can balance things out. Maybe give mesmers/thieves more innate precision, guards could have some healing power too, i don’t know, even naked there is still an uncomfortable discrepancy.

If they just restore the old Bolt to the Heart, it might be enough.

It is one of the worst decision they made that bolt to the heart compete with fresh air

This is one of the most disappoints me, you bring somebody to %10 but you don’t have the sustain or the burst to finish him and he just heals

Alekt.5803:

Everytime the bunker-support type Elementalist gets nerfed, it’s two offensive Elementalist builds that goes down with it. How is it possible to balance this class?

I have always claimed that nerfing the heal to allies on Wash the Pain Away while increasing the radius of the first pulses could be an idea.
::: Nerf heal to allies by 50% on Wash the Pain Away! Increase radius of first pulse to 240, up from 180; increase second radius up to 360 radius, up from 240.

Electric Discharge
when dagger mainhand 600 range
when scepter 900 range
when Staff/Trident 1200 range.

Hey, you know what the best way is to deal with overly flashly visual effects?

Make the class so kittenty that nobody plays it and uses and said visual effects.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Alekt.5803:

Everytime the bunker-support type Elementalist gets nerfed, it’s two offensive Elementalist builds that goes down with it. How is it possible to balance this class?

I have always claimed that nerfing the heal to allies on Wash the Pain Away while increasing the radius of the first pulses could be an idea.
::: Nerf heal to allies by 50% on Wash the Pain Away! Increase radius of first pulse to 240, up from 180; increase second radius up to 360 radius, up from 240.

Electric Discharge
when dagger mainhand 600 range
when scepter 900 range
when Staff/Trident 1200 range.

Oh please!… I can’t stand that 900 range when I use staff.

MyPuppy.8970:

Or just compensate the lack of hp and toughness by having natively more healing power. All classes should have the same fixed amount of base stats before we can balance things out. Maybe give mesmers/thieves more innate precision, guards could have some healing power too, i don’t know, even naked there is still an uncomfortable discrepancy.

Give all adept minor traits of the elements baseline. When in fire, you gain 150 power; when in earth 150 thoughness; when in air grant movement speed. The first adept tiers becomes stat converters:

-For Earth, Strenght of Stones to adept minor: additionnal 10% thoughness to condition damage.

-For Fire, Power Overwhelming to adept minor: additionnal 10% of power converted to condition damage.

-For Air, 10% of precision is coverted into Healing Power.

Then, you need new traits to replace the used one. Ferocious Wind (Air adept), Power Overwhelming (Fire master), Strenght of Stones (Earth Master).

For Earth, upgrade Elemental Shielding to Master tier. Add a new trait, Obsidian Focus to Earth which grants 360 thoughness and reduce condition damage by 33% when channeling skills (including overloads)

Alekt.5803:

Then, you need new traits to replace the used one. Ferocious Wind (Air adept), Power Overwhelming (Fire master), Strenght of Stones (Earth Master).

replace for:
Ferocius Wind – add skill nubmer 4 to Tornado: Swirling Winds.
Power Overhelming – reduce conjure FGS cooldown by half.
Strenght of Stones – gain 100 power when lesser earth elemental alive and next 100 power for earth elemental alive.

PS. Very reasonable idea for adept minors and baseline. Gratz Alekt.

Alekt.5803:

MyPuppy.8970:

Or just compensate the lack of hp and toughness by having natively more healing power. All classes should have the same fixed amount of base stats before we can balance things out. Maybe give mesmers/thieves more innate precision, guards could have some healing power too, i don’t know, even naked there is still an uncomfortable discrepancy.

Give all adept minor traits of the elements baseline. When in fire, you gain 150 power; when in earth 150 thoughness; when in air grant movement speed. The first adept tiers becomes stat converters:

-For Earth, Strenght of Stones to adept minor: additionnal 10% thoughness to condition damage.

-For Fire, Power Overwhelming to adept minor: additionnal 10% of power converted to condition damage.

-For Air, 10% of precision is coverted into Healing Power.

Then, you need new traits to replace the used one. Ferocious Wind (Air adept), Power Overwhelming (Fire master), Strenght of Stones (Earth Master).

For Earth, upgrade Elemental Shielding to Master tier. Add a new trait, Obsidian Focus to Earth which grants 360 thoughness and reduce condition damage by 33% when channeling skills (including overloads)

I’ve though of something similar too. We have150 power in fire, 150 toughness in earth, 10% boon duration in Arcana, we just miss the 150 precision baseline in air and 150 healing power in water. Maybe add 150 expertise in Tempest? And bring back lingering elements made baseline.

Or, make aquatic benevolence affect also yourself, eles can’t really have the luxury of being devoted altruistic healers nowadays. We don’t have so many good/useful traits, so a gm tier trait that doesn’t even benefit to yourself in these dark times seems inappropriate.

MyPuppy.8970:

Alekt.5803:

MyPuppy.8970:

Or just compensate the lack of hp and toughness by having natively more healing power. All classes should have the same fixed amount of base stats before we can balance things out. Maybe give mesmers/thieves more innate precision, guards could have some healing power too, i don’t know, even naked there is still an uncomfortable discrepancy.

Give all adept minor traits of the elements baseline. When in fire, you gain 150 power; when in earth 150 thoughness; when in air grant movement speed. The first adept tiers becomes stat converters:

-For Earth, Strenght of Stones to adept minor: additionnal 10% thoughness to condition damage.

-For Fire, Power Overwhelming to adept minor: additionnal 10% of power converted to condition damage.

-For Air, 10% of precision is coverted into Healing Power.

Then, you need new traits to replace the used one. Ferocious Wind (Air adept), Power Overwhelming (Fire master), Strenght of Stones (Earth Master).

For Earth, upgrade Elemental Shielding to Master tier. Add a new trait, Obsidian Focus to Earth which grants 360 thoughness and reduce condition damage by 33% when channeling skills (including overloads)

I’ve though of something similar too. We have150 power in fire, 150 toughness in earth, 10% boon duration in Arcana, we just miss the 150 precision baseline in air and 150 healing power in water. Maybe add 150 expertise in Tempest? And bring back lingering elements made baseline.

Or, make aquatic benevolence affect also yourself, eles can’t really have the luxury of being devoted altruistic healers nowadays. We don’t have so many good/useful traits, so a gm tier trait that doesn’t even benefit to yourself in these dark times seems inappropriate.

Well, I’ve been discussing the subject, and giving direct healing power to water may be pure power creep for bunker builds. Water already have a good minor trait to be honest. Arcane and Tempest are different stuff for different ideas.

Instead, I think that giving attentions to Earth Thoughness + (Condition), Air Speed + (Healing), Fire Power + (Condition) is a fair change since it has more chances to affect a secondary stats, which is the goal here. That’s because every weapon set of the elementalist has some burning or bleeding somewhere so it’s a way to give them a more solid untraited condition. As for the builds being condition already, they’ll benefit a little bit less from Fire, but will gain in their main stats.

Shadowflare.2759:

To sit on the bench. From the results of every patch since launch, it’s been made clear that eles:
1) Are not allowed to burst hard
2) Are not allowed to be mobile like thieves
3) Are not allowed to be tanky
4) Are not allowed to be a jack of all trades.

What are we allowed to be? A kitten support that can barely do anything on its own.

The removal of cele wasn’t necessarily a bad thing, it just revealed how fundamentally flawed eles are. Maybe in 5 years eles will actually get the changes it needs.

For someone who’s been playing for 3 years, you sure do have convenient amnesia concerning the roles Eles have been able to effectively fulfill in the last several metas…

EDIT: this is not to say that eles aren’t under-powered now. I just don’t think we should be oh so dramatic with these outlandish claims. Make a case, but be legitimate when you do.

well, ele needs a buff !

give ele a 5th attunement : LOVE

XD think of captain planet !

During 3 years: lf ele, guard, rogue, war for pvp, pve, wvw, or whatever.
- Can i join the 5th sloth with my ingi?
- Not lf another ele, guard, war, do you have one?
- No.
- Bye.
Please don t be so amnesic actually the balance is clearly better than ever. I can play what i want with more professions.

epouvante.7392:

During 3 years: lf ele, guard, rogue, war for pvp, pve, wvw, or whatever.
- Can i join the 5th sloth with my ingi?
- Not lf another ele, guard, war, do you have one?
- No.
- Bye.
Please don t be so amnesic actually the balance is clearly better than ever. I can play what i want with more professions.

We don’t wanna kick others profession from game.
What we want is proper balance for our profession.

Given who is apparently in charge of balance ATM there is no plan.

Shadowflare.2759:

To sit on the bench. From the results of every patch since launch, it’s been made clear that eles:
1) Are not allowed to burst hard
2) Are not allowed to be mobile like thieves
3) Are not allowed to be tanky
4) Are not allowed to be a jack of all trades.

What are we allowed to be? A kitten support that can barely do anything on its own.

The removal of cele wasn’t necessarily a bad thing, it just revealed how fundamentally flawed eles are. Maybe in 5 years eles will actually get the changes it needs.

1) before the removal of cele ele had medium damage… for a bunker… seriously?
2) it is a mobile class… but are you seriously trying to say a bunker class should have mobility like thieves?
3) really? holding 3 people on a point and killing one of them at the same time… yea they arent tanky
4) ele is THE jack of all trades… they heal… damage… tank… move… everything… if you honestly think anything you said was true you really need to learn how to play ele a little better. ive been able to 2v1 most class combinations since launch as an ele, until the removal of cele in the last patch… and still there are builds that i can reliably 1v1 with. ele is a class thats harder to pick up than others but once you learn to play them they are pub stompers.

PrZone.4753:

4) ele is THE jack of all trades… they heal… damage… tank… move… everything…

engineer is the correct answer to jack of all trades. That class really CAN do some of everything. For starters, ele is very bad at pulling off interrupts. and can’t stealth.

reikken.4961:

PrZone.4753:

4) ele is THE jack of all trades… they heal… damage… tank… move… everything…

engineer is the correct answer to jack of all trades. That class really CAN do some of everything. For starters, ele is very bad at pulling off interrupts. and can’t stealth.

This is very true and do it better in some cases.

For a start, Tempest Defense could work with any form of disables for the damage increase. As it stands with Stuns, Dazes and Knock-Down are the only sources of disable that works with the trait.

Elementalist has a large pool of disables that are not used by the trait. Launch (Tornado, Updraft, Wind Blast), knock-back (Gust, Unsteady Ground, Tidal Surge), pull (Magnetic Shield, Cyclone), float (Air Bubble), sink (Rock Anchor, Undercurrent).

Warlord.9074:

whats the plan with warriors. At least ele is better than warrior.

Disagree, I think ele is where warrior was previously. Deleting celestial really put a knife in that class, now they’re just fodder.

MailMail.6534:

Shadowflare.2759:

To sit on the bench. From the results of every patch since launch, it’s been made clear that eles:
1) Are not allowed to burst hard
2) Are not allowed to be mobile like thieves
3) Are not allowed to be tanky
4) Are not allowed to be a jack of all trades.

What are we allowed to be? A kitten support that can barely do anything on its own.

The removal of cele wasn’t necessarily a bad thing, it just revealed how fundamentally flawed eles are. Maybe in 5 years eles will actually get the changes it needs.

For someone who’s been playing for 3 years, you sure do have convenient amnesia concerning the roles Eles have been able to effectively fulfill in the last several metas…

EDIT: this is not to say that eles aren’t under-powered now. I just don’t think we should be oh so dramatic with these outlandish claims. Make a case, but be legitimate when you do.

PrZone.4753:

1) before the removal of cele ele had medium damage… for a bunker… seriously?
2) it is a mobile class… but are you seriously trying to say a bunker class should have mobility like thieves?
3) really? holding 3 people on a point and killing one of them at the same time… yea they arent tanky
4) ele is THE jack of all trades… they heal… damage… tank… move… everything… if you honestly think anything you said was true you really need to learn how to play ele a little better. ive been able to 2v1 most class combinations since launch as an ele, until the removal of cele in the last patch… and still there are builds that i can reliably 1v1 with. ele is a class thats harder to pick up than others but once you learn to play them they are pub stompers.

I will address these two together.

You both seem to think I’m being dramatic, but what I said was simply analysis of history. Nothing either of you said actually disproves my point, I didn’t claim that this last single patch nerfed all those aspects of the ele, but rather that as time went on, each of those took a hit. And those hits removed the particular aspect from the ele I was going to write out a huge post pointing out the chronolgies of these nerfs, but there really is no point. It won’t change the fact that they happened.

I will simply say that in the current state, Eles cannot do damage comparable to thieves, scrappers, or reapers. Even with dagger offhand, our mobility pales in comparison to thieves or druids.

We cannot tank because now we have to choose from having toughness, vitality, or healing power, and without hard mitigation, lacking even one of these stats makes our method of “sustain through recovery” far less effective.

And we cannot be a jack of all trades, again because the amulets available no longer supports that style of play. Without the stats, at best you’re mediocre at a few things, while bad at others. And why would someone take a class that is just okay at a few, if they can just take other classes which can specialize and be excellent at specific things?

I’m still able to 1 v 1 most opponents, hell I can even 1 v 2 some match ups with marauder fresh air core ele. That doesn’t mean that ele is in a good place. We have always had trouble finding a niche, and I’ve brought this up almost every balance patch. If you want eles to be the eternal support bot, with the same playstyle since launch, then keep championing that the class is okay.

anet needs to give cele back to eles. it’s not like any other classes needed it that much, and with the new amulets its not like any other class will want it.

multiple nerfs and removal of the amulet that had kept ele viable for years was terribly short sighted of anet. it was never going to do anything but ruin the class.

bring back cele ele. I used to love having them on my team. now they are better than warrior, but still an equally pointless pick.

adding rev while ruining warrior made gw2 effectively stay a 8 class game. the nerfs to ele and mes are dangerously close to making this practically a 6 class game. pathetic balance from anet.

I’d take a rework over cele anytime Something actually well thought, understanding of the concept and philosophy of the class depending what they want it to be, and giving it the tools to be so, with no more band aids and last minute tweaks.

MyPuppy.8970:

I’d take a rework over cele anytime Something actually well thought, understanding of the concept and philosophy of the class depending what they want it to be, and giving it the tools to be so, with no more band aids and last minute tweaks.

as an ex warrior main I wouldn’t recommend you keep your hopes up

choovanski.5462:

anet needs to give cele back to eles. it’s not like any other classes needed it that much, and with the new amulets its not like any other class will want it.

multiple nerfs and removal of the amulet that had kept ele viable for years was terribly short sighted of anet. it was never going to do anything but ruin the class.

bring back cele ele. I used to love having them on my team. now they are better than warrior, but still an equally pointless pick.

adding rev while ruining warrior made gw2 effectively stay a 8 class game. the nerfs to ele and mes are dangerously close to making this practically a 6 class game. pathetic balance from anet.

The deletion of Celestial amulet is actually thinking for the long run.

As an ele main, I never expect anything, I’d only shatterstone myself.