Guild Wars 2

A simple death recap screenshot that demonstrates what’s wrong with burning. Namely: it’s 3 times as effective as other conditions. Why?

Also; Why does it say ‘top skills’? There’s literally no skill involved! Direct damage wasn’t even anywhere on that list… x_x

This is f’ed up and needs to be fixed.

Pretty balanced.

The dmg break down helps in figuring out exactly how you died and in what ways. 5 people attacking you and you not dying until 2m has passed, does not mean burning is OP..

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You’re a Thief… it explains why condi was the most damaging condition on the list… you only got hit by raw dmg a couple of times while the conditions were ticking away while you were stealthed :/

And i think you got downed by a Warrior…?

Saiyan.1704:

The dmg break down helps in figuring out exactly how you died and in what ways. 5 people attacking you and you not dying until 2m has passed, does not mean burning is OP..

Like would you want me to post every single death recap tomorrow and count how many times burning is at the top of the chart, far beyond anything else?

Saiyan.1704:

You’re a Thief… it explainsl why condi was the most damaging condition on the list… you only got hit by raw dmg a couple of times while the conditions were ticking away while you were stealth.

And i think you got downed by a Warrior…?

My build doesn’t even have stealth. Death log tracks downs and stomp deaths and the Warrior one wasn’t me.

I notice a lot of these nerf burning threads with screenshots have a Guardian somewhere nearby.

Like 90% of Guards at this point are burn builds. How about we just tone down the access Guards, Ele’s and Engi’s have to burning instead of blanket nerfing the condition as a whole.

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

The dmg break down helps in figuring out exactly how you died and in what ways. 5 people attacking you and you not dying until 2m has passed, does not mean burning is OP..

Like would you want me to post every single death recap tomorrow?

Yes.

You’ll realize that the 15 to 40 hits out of those Burn Hits were burn Guardian.

Or

A condi Necro transferred 15 burn stacks that your single Ele or Guard friend applied on their entire team from one skill, PF and RoF
(you’ll know when you see your own team’s name as damage done to you… i’ve completely wiped my entire team because I applied team wide burns with a Necro nearby.)

Or

You’re a teef that can’t handle AoE damages, especially condition ones. Thieves don’t nearly have enough self condi cleanses to last through team fights.. .. it’s why I Always tell the Thieves on my team to rotate out. They don’t belong there unless the team is synchronized enough to utilize him for SR rez, bursts, cc, etc.

Total Condi Damages doesn’t tell us anything.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I notice a lot of these nerf burning threads with screenshots have a Guardian somewhere nearby.

Like 90% of Guards at this point are burn builds. How about we just tone down the access Guards, Ele’s and Engi’s have to burning instead of blanket nerfing the condition as a whole.

Burn Guardian’s entire damage is based on Burns. It’s going to be the most damaging item there because it’s the only damage we deal… aside from the 1900 power, 4% crit – raw damage filler.

There’s a reason why burn guardians (conditions in general) are not utilized much in Tournaments. Conditions, other than Signet Necros, are not an issue against synchronized teams who know how to condi cleanse.

Again, Burning (conditions in general) is only an issue against solo players on unsynchronized teams… and apparently Thieves… 99% of the Thieves in this game QQ about burns or conditions, more than any other aspect in the game.

Burning is a burst condition and requires combos or staying in fire fields to be effective, others are attrition and can be more spammable.

“Burst condition”

Do you understand the irony of your statement?

If a build is specifically designed to dish out huge amounts of burning, it’s no problem that it kills you fast.

pack a few cleanses and use them at the right time, it’s as easy as that. Also, not every build is inherently strong against conditions and thats how a game like this should work.

If a build is specifically designed to dish out huge amounts of burning, it’s no problem that it kills you fast.

So why then can’t we also have bleed warrior or venomshare poison thief be viable if you’re so for builds designed for burst-conditions?

My problem with burning isn’t so much that it kills me fast but that it provides an example of annoying double standard and strange design choices. If you choose to play conditions you shouldn’t be able to burst people, just as if you’re playing zerker you can’t bunker / bleed people to death.

Can someone please tell me how to get that screen up. I was told the messages on the right but nothing happens when I hit it.

when you die there’s a thingy at the bottom that looks like a black banner, at it’s right side there’s a circled (i) button. Press it and it’ll tell you what killed you.

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

So. I’m playing a mediguard, at the end of 8 in 10 matches I -always- have top conditions removed from self, top condition damage recieved AND every single death without exception has burning as over 70% of damage dealt to me.

I have 3 condi clears, one full clear on 50 second cooldown, one single-condi clear on 16 second cooldown (that is also my big damage tool), and 43s cooldown virtue which when used deprives me of passive regen in return for curing 3 conditions.

Can I beat a burn guard? Yes. Can I take part in a teamfight? Hardly. Why? Burning spam. The moment I go anywhere near a 3+ people fight I get swarmed with 15 stacks of burning and die in 2 seconds EVEN IF I SAVE AND SPAM ALL MY HEALING AND CONDITION CLEANSES for that moment.

I don’t care if it’s balanced for super pro teams that run perfect comps with ten trillion aoe cleanses, majority of the playerbase are playing pugs. When a mechanic ruins games for a majority of players — it’s a bad mechanic, whether balanced or not.

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

There’s always a funny aspect to all that “Burn OP OMG” treads:
If Burn is OP how can you survive to 54k of Burn Damage????

The problem is not the amount of damage but the time that damage need to kill you.
If you survived to 54k of burn is why you used all your healing skills, more than once, and someone else healed you. )or you’re a iper bunker necromancer with a insane amount of HP and LF + heal.

When a dps guardian burst you, you can’t read 40k of XXXskill why that guardian will kill you fast, leaving you not so much time to heal all the damage dealt.

In that image the thief survived to 54k of burn, 10k of bleed, 4k of poison and 6k of the ele skill + a large amount of damage dealt by other random skills.

A thief more or less have 16k of HP, right?

Then how can that burn is OP if it dealt you enough damage to kill you more than 3 times and you’re still alive?

The thief is really weak against conditions, we all know, but if Burn is strong like you say, how can you be able to survive to 3 times your life, only of Burn damage?

If you fight a dps guardian you recive lesser numerical damage bur you die quickly. 16-20k and you’re dead. Not so much time to survive like you have 3 lives (and much more if you add bleed, poison, and the other skills).

Seriously, me and one of my friend that play both dps and burn guardian can simply say that Burn deal a very high damage but direct damage kill so much better and frequently inflict so much more damage. But it’s lower than what you can read why you die before the damage reach the 54k!

Please, don’t look at that screnshots, they’re useless, futile and misleading.

If you can survive to 54k of Burn damage (+ a lot of different conditions and direct damage) as a thief in a XvsX team fight, the Burn damage is NOT OP.

Silv.9207:

There’s always a funny aspect to all that “Burn OP OMG” treads:
If Burn is OP how can you survive to 54k of Burn Damage????

The problem is not the amount of damage but the time that damage need to kill you.
If you survived to 54k of burn is why you used all your healing skills, more than once, and someone else healed you. )or you’re a iper bunker necromancer with a insane amount of HP and LF + heal.

When a dps guardian burst you, you can’t read 40k of XXXskill why that guardian will kill you fast, leaving you not so much time to heal all the damage dealt.

In that image the thief survived to 54k of burn, 10k of bleed, 4k of poison and 6k of the ele skill + a large amount of damage dealt by other random skills.

A thief more or less have 16k of HP, right?

Then how can that burn is OP if it dealt you enough damage to kill you more than 3 times and you’re still alive?

The thief is really weak against conditions, we all know, but if Burn is strong like you say, how can you be able to survive to 3 times your life, only of Burn damage?

If you fight a dps guardian you recive lesser numerical damage bur you die quickly. 16-20k and you’re dead. Not so much time to survive like you have 3 lives (and much more if you add bleed, poison, and the other skills).

Seriously, me and one of my friend that play both dps and burn guardian can simply say that Burn deal a very high damage but direct damage kill so much better and frequently inflict so much more damage. But it’s lower than what you can read why you die before the damage reach the 54k!

Please, don’t look at that screnshots, they’re useless, futile and misleading.

If you can survive to 54k of Burn damage (+ a lot of different conditions and direct damage) as a thief in a XvsX team fight, the Burn damage is NOT OP.

Because it’s not like they are focusing me the entire fight, I can sustain a couple stacks of burning if they are ignoring me, problem is the moment a condition build looks at me I get a massive stack up my kitten and die in moments spamming every single heal I have only to die, saw yesterday on my last match I had 13 stacks of burning on me before I died from a single Guardian in a team fight. I use Cleric’s amulet so it’s natural that I survive with a ton of healing things just like it’s natural for them to do high condition damage, problem is the highest damage condition previously now stacks to do triple the damage or more instead of just duration and multiple stacks per skill to keep the damage the same as previously.

Erindriel.2351:

“Burst condition”

Do you understand the irony of your statement?

That’s not ironic – you’re just stuck in a mindset that conditions HAVE to be slow. Just like direct damage, there is sustained damage and burst damage.

For example on a build I run on Engi, I have some sustained burn/condi damage – never actually going to kill anyone with it. If I can get someone to eat my Incendiary Ammo (my burst burn) then I’ve got a good chance of winning and their death log will look like they took a LOT of burn damage. However I have to live long enough to bait out my oponent’s condi clears first, and I have to recognise that I’ve done it, and time my burst when they have no defense against it. If I get this wrong then I might as well get my coat and go home because that’s it for another 45ish seconds… I’m back to tickling.

If you get condi bursted then you didn’t have a condi clear available… first ask yourself why is that?… sry to say you might just have been out played. Perhaps not true of ALL classes, but then that’s a class problem, not a burn problem.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Erindriel.2351:

“Burst condition”

Do you understand the irony of your statement?

That’s not ironic – you’re just stuck in a mindset that conditions HAVE to be slow. Just like direct damage, there is sustained damage and burst damage.

For example on a build I run on Engi, I have some sustained burn/condi damage – never actually going to kill anyone with it. If I can get someone to eat my Incendiary Ammo (my burst burn) then I’ve got a good chance of winning and their death log will look like they took a LOT of burn damage. However I have to live long enough to bait out my oponent’s condi clears first, and I have to recognise that I’ve done it, and time my burst when they have no defense against it. If I get this wrong then I might as well get my coat and go home because that’s it for another 45ish seconds… I’m back to tickling.

If you get condi bursted then you didn’t have a condi clear available… first ask yourself why is that?… sry to say you might just have been out played. Perhaps not true of ALL classes, but then that’s a class problem, not a burn problem.

You can have burst conditions when they have an animation like Hundred Blades or Killshot or even just Eviscerate.

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I notice a lot of these nerf burning threads with screenshots have a Guardian somewhere nearby.

Like 90% of Guards at this point are burn builds. How about we just tone down the access Guards, Ele’s and Engi’s have to burning instead of blanket nerfing the condition as a whole.

Most guardians would be perfectly fine with Anet toning down the amount of burns applied per ability If & only If guards were to get ready access to another condition.

As is they only have burning & the time between when they can apply multiple stacks is generally long enough for peoples condi cleanses to recharge.

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

You would need like 2k condition damage stat to reach 400 tick burns.

Even with a guardian in full carrion & with the +15% burn damage trait you only see about 320 per tick.

glaphen.5230:

Silv.9207:

There’s always a funny aspect to all that “Burn OP OMG” treads:
If Burn is OP how can you survive to 54k of Burn Damage????

The problem is not the amount of damage but the time that damage need to kill you.
If you survived to 54k of burn is why you used all your healing skills, more than once, and someone else healed you. )or you’re a iper bunker necromancer with a insane amount of HP and LF + heal.

When a dps guardian burst you, you can’t read 40k of XXXskill why that guardian will kill you fast, leaving you not so much time to heal all the damage dealt.

In that image the thief survived to 54k of burn, 10k of bleed, 4k of poison and 6k of the ele skill + a large amount of damage dealt by other random skills.

A thief more or less have 16k of HP, right?

Then how can that burn is OP if it dealt you enough damage to kill you more than 3 times and you’re still alive?

The thief is really weak against conditions, we all know, but if Burn is strong like you say, how can you be able to survive to 3 times your life, only of Burn damage?

If you fight a dps guardian you recive lesser numerical damage bur you die quickly. 16-20k and you’re dead. Not so much time to survive like you have 3 lives (and much more if you add bleed, poison, and the other skills).

Seriously, me and one of my friend that play both dps and burn guardian can simply say that Burn deal a very high damage but direct damage kill so much better and frequently inflict so much more damage. But it’s lower than what you can read why you die before the damage reach the 54k!

Please, don’t look at that screnshots, they’re useless, futile and misleading.

If you can survive to 54k of Burn damage (+ a lot of different conditions and direct damage) as a thief in a XvsX team fight, the Burn damage is NOT OP.

Because it’s not like they are focusing me the entire fight, I can sustain a couple stacks of burning if they are ignoring me, problem is the moment a condition build looks at me I get a massive stack up my kitten and die in moments spamming every single heal I have only to die, saw yesterday on my last match I had 13 stacks of burning on me before I died from a single Guardian in a team fight. I use Cleric’s amulet so it’s natural that I survive with a ton of healing things just like it’s natural for them to do high condition damage, problem is the highest damage condition previously now stacks to do triple the damage or more instead of just duration and multiple stacks per skill to keep the damage the same as previously.

The only way you could get that many burn stacks on you from a single guardian is to run through purging flames 2 times after he hit you with his/her other utility skill & his/her torch.

In essence the guard dumped 2/3 of their utility skills & a weapon skill on you then you made the mistake of running through a brightly colored ring of fire twice.

Erindriel.2351:

“Burst condition”

Do you understand the irony of your statement?

Quote of 2015.

Burning is crazy, but at least the elite specs are going to be crazier.

Have some faith op, Anet will balance this soon™.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

You would need like 2k condition damage stat to reach 400 tick burns.

Even with a guardian in full carrion & with the +15% burn damage trait you only see about 320 per tick.

What are you running? I hit 1700 condi dmg, and I get roughly 435 per tick… I hate burn, but I hate losing more. So I use burn.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

I feel like you are too. I dislike burning, but not because of damage because of tankiness. Also, it loses a considerable amount of damage for using soldier. And I was going to mention intelligence sigil, but I felt like people would pick up on it without having to use it as their go to. AND its on Engi which has on demand weapon swaps like ele (who still are running cele… =/ oh well). 50% damage from soldier, 130% damage from zerker, 100% from marauder. Those are the differences. A guaranteed crit is only as good as your ferocity+power. And if they spend their whole time trying to stack might, then my corrupt necro will spend their whole match with weakness on them. I dislike burning, but I will use it. However, don’t try to point a finger at someone else before pointing it at yourself first. Often times, people say what they want others to believe isn’t true for them.

Last thing, massively generalizing what? I gave an example, one that isn’t hard to reach. Incendiary ammo engi, corruption necro (dag 4, signet, staff 4), ele on anything but staff, guardians. Massively tanky is Dire. Dire is semi achievable in spvp anyway. Lemme just iterate my last point: I no longer care about burning power. Its strong, its overtuned, its annoying. Devs like it. Therefore, I will play around it. And I will stop whining. I’m just pointing out how condition damage works. You have ONE stat (and duration, but the people who get duration usually get condi dmg with it or avoid using the duration item) and burst power builds have 3. Power builds have 1. Power builds are tank builds. Burst power is power/precision/ferocity. Condi is Condidmg/x/y.

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Just because you died to burning, doesn’t make it op.

Serious Thought.5394:

I feel like you are too. I dislike burning, but not because of damage because of tankiness. Also, it loses a considerable amount of damage for using soldier. And I was going to mention intelligence sigil, but I felt like people would pick up on it without having to use it as their go to. AND its on Engi which has on demand weapon swaps like ele (who still are running cele… =/ oh well). 50% damage from soldier, 130% damage from zerker, 100% from marauder. Those are the differences. A guaranteed crit is only as good as your ferocity+power. And if they spend their whole time trying to stack might, then my corrupt necro will spend their whole match with weakness on them. I dislike burning, but I will use it. However, don’t try to point a finger at someone else before pointing it at yourself first. Often times, people say what they want others to believe isn’t true for them.

Last thing, massively generalizing what? I gave an example, one that isn’t hard to reach. Incendiary ammo engi, corruption necro (dag 4, signet, staff 4), ele on anything but staff, guardians. Massively tanky is Dire. Dire is semi achievable in spvp anyway. Lemme just iterate my last point: I no longer care about burning power. Its strong, its overtuned, its annoying. Devs like it. Therefore, I will play around it. And I will stop whining. I’m just pointing out how condition damage works. You have ONE stat (and duration, but the people who get duration usually get condi dmg with it or avoid using the duration item) and burst power builds have 3. Power builds have 1. Power builds are tank builds. Burst power is power/precision/ferocity. Condi is Condidmg/x/y.

Another difference is the fact that burst damage builds will frontload 5-15k damage, while that incendiary ammo engi is blowing a long cooldown for a condi damage burst that could just be cleansed and negated. That Engi then has to rely on filler condi damage and his defensive stats while waiting on his condi bust set up to be ready again and hope the same thing doesn’t happen.

Serious Thought.5394:

I feel like you are too. I dislike burning, but not because of damage because of tankiness.

I’m not sure where you’re going with this… condition builds and tankiness seem inextricably linked to you, and I’m not sure why.

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

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Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Why would I start playing ranked after a year of not playing, especially with solo queue removed, doesn’t matter if my build worries you it works, ANet already nerfed it multiple times even though no one ran it.

Shaogin.2679:

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Engineer condition clear sucks, in what universe, you would have to try to get a build without condition removal on Engineer, were you not running healing turret?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

What skills does a power Engineer have that does high damage without an obvious animation, there are tons of stun breaks on the most random skills and stability is plentiful now so a build will usually have at least one, condition removal mostly is the one purpose of the utility or requires are trait that makes certain utilities remove one random one while the animations that cause conditions have no obvious signs, you don’t see traits that say 10% chance to causes stun on hit but you see tons of traits for 33% chance to causes condition on any hit.

Shaogin.2679:

Serious Thought.5394:

I feel like you are too. I dislike burning, but not because of damage because of tankiness. Also, it loses a considerable amount of damage for using soldier. And I was going to mention intelligence sigil, but I felt like people would pick up on it without having to use it as their go to. AND its on Engi which has on demand weapon swaps like ele (who still are running cele… =/ oh well). 50% damage from soldier, 130% damage from zerker, 100% from marauder. Those are the differences. A guaranteed crit is only as good as your ferocity+power. And if they spend their whole time trying to stack might, then my corrupt necro will spend their whole match with weakness on them. I dislike burning, but I will use it. However, don’t try to point a finger at someone else before pointing it at yourself first. Often times, people say what they want others to believe isn’t true for them.

Last thing, massively generalizing what? I gave an example, one that isn’t hard to reach. Incendiary ammo engi, corruption necro (dag 4, signet, staff 4), ele on anything but staff, guardians. Massively tanky is Dire. Dire is semi achievable in spvp anyway. Lemme just iterate my last point: I no longer care about burning power. Its strong, its overtuned, its annoying. Devs like it. Therefore, I will play around it. And I will stop whining. I’m just pointing out how condition damage works. You have ONE stat (and duration, but the people who get duration usually get condi dmg with it or avoid using the duration item) and burst power builds have 3. Power builds have 1. Power builds are tank builds. Burst power is power/precision/ferocity. Condi is Condidmg/x/y.

Another difference is the fact that burst damage builds will frontload 5-15k damage, while that incendiary ammo engi is blowing a long cooldown for a condi damage burst that could just be cleansed and negated. That Engi then has to rely on filler condi damage and his defensive stats while waiting on his condi bust set up to be ready again and hope the same thing doesn’t happen.

Not like incendiary ammo is Engineers only way to cause conditions, every single pistol skill, some traits, bombs, grenades, weapon swaps, runes, all cause conditions, want to know the highest cooldown of those? 25 seconds on poison grenades is the highest damaging condition cooldown, which has the same animation as every other grenade.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

C
O
N
D
I
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I
O
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S

Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Why would I start playing ranked after a year of not playing, especially with solo queue removed, doesn’t matter if my build worries you it works, ANet already nerfed it multiple times even though no one ran it.

Shaogin.2679:

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Engineer condition clear sucks, in what universe, you would have to try to get a build without condition removal on Engineer, were you not running healing turret?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

What skills does a power Engineer have that does high damage without an obvious animation, there are tons of stun breaks on the most random skills and stability is plentiful now so a build will usually have at least one, condition removal mostly is the one purpose of the utility or requires are trait that makes certain utilities remove one random one while the animations that cause conditions have no obvious signs, you don’t see traits that say 10% chance to causes stun on hit but you see tons of traits for 33% chance to causes condition on any hit.

Conditions do put a pretty visual red symbol next to you…

As we’re using engi… First sign you’re going to get burst is he will use his ‘Incendiary Ammo’ – this puts a very visible boon/buff symbol on the Engi. You now KNOW that his next 3 attacks are going to hurt and if you can avoid just those 3 attacks he’s going to be much much much much less of a threat. So you can dodge, or you can block or reflect or just get ready with that condi clear or…

Just saying that there may be visual clues… Also, perhaps ironically, that condi engi is highly susceptible to condition damage, and will probably just turn and run at the sight of a burn Guard… but, you can’t win ‘em all… unless you’re a Mesmer… I don’t mean that, but yeah Nerf Mesmer. No don’t, I play Mesmer sometimes… just un-nerf them at weekends…

Dirtyrascal.1023:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

C
O
N
D
I
T
I
O
N
S

Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Why would I start playing ranked after a year of not playing, especially with solo queue removed, doesn’t matter if my build worries you it works, ANet already nerfed it multiple times even though no one ran it.

Shaogin.2679:

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Engineer condition clear sucks, in what universe, you would have to try to get a build without condition removal on Engineer, were you not running healing turret?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

What skills does a power Engineer have that does high damage without an obvious animation, there are tons of stun breaks on the most random skills and stability is plentiful now so a build will usually have at least one, condition removal mostly is the one purpose of the utility or requires are trait that makes certain utilities remove one random one while the animations that cause conditions have no obvious signs, you don’t see traits that say 10% chance to causes stun on hit but you see tons of traits for 33% chance to causes condition on any hit.

Conditions do put a pretty visual red symbol next to you…

As we’re using engi… First sign you’re going to get burst is he will use his ‘Incendiary Ammo’ – this puts a very visible boon/buff symbol on the Engi. You now KNOW that his next 3 attacks are going to hurt and if you can avoid just those 3 attacks he’s going to be much much much much less of a threat. So you can dodge, or you can block or reflect or just get ready with that condi clear or…

Just saying that there may be visual clues… Also, perhaps ironically, that condi engi is highly susceptible to condition damage, and will probably just turn and run at the sight of a burn Guard… but, you can’t win ‘em all… unless you’re a Mesmer… I don’t mean that, but yeah Nerf Mesmer. No don’t, I playing Mesmer sometimes… just un-nerf them at weekends…

I have played for 2 years with multiple builds based around dodging, I know any methods of dodging conditions but they aren’t viable, they all hurt like hell and the only defense is being built around negating their damage after it hits specifically through a couple traits and utilities that doesn’t give nearly enough to survive more than a few seconds, I can dodge a hammer Warriors big hits for days and I could even dodge ranged Pin Downs before they nerfed it’s animation but you can’t dodge a Guardian causing burn every few hits and even if you clear it, it’s going to continue on every few hits while their adding more from weapon swaps and utilities that cause it instantly and you wait for your long cooldown condition removal to remove some random conditions that probably isn’t burning, not like Guardians lack defense with Shelter, Shield of Wrath and multiple sources of Aegis causing burning if you hit them.

I don’t mean to be argumentative but incendiary ammo has NO cast time which means I can use it midair (and do) on multi hit skills with quickness (easy to access these days, unless you are thief, necro, or ele? wtf? prejudice on my faves QQ) and get all 3 before you can react. Woohoo. You dodge/reflected those. Now while you fight back, stealth ez pz. Oh you cleansed em? Good thing my trait applies 2 burning on crit and pistol 4 does it do- pistol 4, tk 3, tk 4 and wait AGAIN. By not playing, I am “outplaying” you. It’s aggrivating, but supposedly balanced? Whatever. I’m playing bs reflector necro these days (thanks for them condis, have em back. No i insist ) so I don’t care how high condis get, I actually enjoy getting them.

glaphen.5230:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

C
O
N
D
I
T
I
O
N
S

Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Why would I start playing ranked after a year of not playing, especially with solo queue removed, doesn’t matter if my build worries you it works, ANet already nerfed it multiple times even though no one ran it.

Shaogin.2679:

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Engineer condition clear sucks, in what universe, you would have to try to get a build without condition removal on Engineer, were you not running healing turret?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

What skills does a power Engineer have that does high damage without an obvious animation, there are tons of stun breaks on the most random skills and stability is plentiful now so a build will usually have at least one, condition removal mostly is the one purpose of the utility or requires are trait that makes certain utilities remove one random one while the animations that cause conditions have no obvious signs, you don’t see traits that say 10% chance to causes stun on hit but you see tons of traits for 33% chance to causes condition on any hit.

Conditions do put a pretty visual red symbol next to you…

As we’re using engi… First sign you’re going to get burst is he will use his ‘Incendiary Ammo’ – this puts a very visible boon/buff symbol on the Engi. You now KNOW that his next 3 attacks are going to hurt and if you can avoid just those 3 attacks he’s going to be much much much much less of a threat. So you can dodge, or you can block or reflect or just get ready with that condi clear or…

Just saying that there may be visual clues… Also, perhaps ironically, that condi engi is highly susceptible to condition damage, and will probably just turn and run at the sight of a burn Guard… but, you can’t win ‘em all… unless you’re a Mesmer… I don’t mean that, but yeah Nerf Mesmer. No don’t, I playing Mesmer sometimes… just un-nerf them at weekends…

I have played for 2 years with multiple builds based around dodging, I know any methods of dodging conditions but they aren’t viable, they all hurt like hell and the only defense is being built around negating their damage after it hits specifically through a couple traits and utilities that doesn’t give nearly enough to survive more than a few seconds, I can dodge a hammer Warriors big hits for days and I could even dodge ranged Pin Downs before they nerfed it’s animation but you can’t dodge a Guardian causing burn every few hits and even if you clear it, it’s going to continue on every few hits while their adding more from weapon swaps and utilities that cause it instantly and you wait for your long cooldown condition removal to remove some random conditions that probably isn’t burning, not like Guardians lack defense with Shelter, Shield of Wrath and multiple sources of Aegis causing burning if you hit them.

Guardian problem, not burn problem… Like I said Engi for e.g. telegraphs it with a buff icon.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

glaphen.5230:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You are a thief….why are you in combat for so long?? I guess you never had a team with 2-3 bunkers even burn takes long to kill them the counters are definitely present don’t expect complete damage specs to have great condition cleansing but seriously why were you in combat for so long if you are a thief?!

I rather you show us the total condition damage at the end of match.

glaphen.5230:

Sagat.3285:

glaphen.5230:

C
O
N
D
I
T
I
O
N
S

Either the opposite team was entirely made of condi specs or you received a lot of transferred conditions or you healed through a lot of them with no cleansing your received healing is pretty close to both damage types. You had good healers interesting however your build worries me.

3 physical, 2 condition builds. I was the only bunker build on my team and at least 3 were condition builds on my team, not sure what class the 4th even was now but one was condition Thief. Build had me at top 25 of solo queue when I played a year ago and if anything the healing was mainly the physical damage that I can possibly sustain if I don’t mess up and they don’t out play me, any time a condition build entered vision range I died quickly unless my burst was up and they were too bad to dodge it but I will still probably die before I stomp. Either way 189 removed conditions which were mainly damaging ones from Pain Response every 20 seconds and it still tied with the majority.

From the other thread, please don’t tell me I don’t know how to play Thief, may not have played in a year but I still mostly remember how to play, which is why I win most of my unranked games I’ve been doing.

Why are you in unranked? Again your build worries me. you might still be used to that previous year mentality. It’s a team effort you didn’t necessarily won your matches…alone. If it wasn’t on thief I would see your “proof” as more fitting and one more time your build worries me.

Why would I start playing ranked after a year of not playing, especially with solo queue removed, doesn’t matter if my build worries you it works, ANet already nerfed it multiple times even though no one ran it.

Shaogin.2679:

Oh look, a new burn thread. Cause you know, heaven forbid we just use one of the 100 other threads. Listen, I play an Engi. My condi clear sucks. But I kept getting matched against a bunch of condi builds so I changed my build to bring more condi removal at the cost of some damage, but it was worth it. Adapt and overcome, don’t just come here to whine.

Engineer condition clear sucks, in what universe, you would have to try to get a build without condition removal on Engineer, were you not running healing turret?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Serious Thought.5394:

The reason condition damage (burning being primary) is not supposed to be this high is because of opportunity costs/investment.

You take one stat in condition damage, the whole things goes to enormous proportions. Congrats, now invest in defense with the other two.

You take three stats in power builds to boost your damage to semi-decent/enormous proportions (class dependent). Congrats, now cry because you have no defense.

Do you see the problem? Perhaps if I told you burning does 400 damage per stack (I’m averaging down btw) so when someone hits you for 10 stacks almost instantly you are taking 4000 damage per second from a single skill against a target capable of still building massively tanky. If conditions were affected by weakness (-50% condition damage, fumble style) OR you had to invest more stats in conditions, players would not complain as hard. However, you don’t. One stat for condi, three stats for power.

Sorry but this just isn’t true…. (if you’re talking about spvp). You can be Rabid and have some toughness, or you can be Carrion and have some HP. You can’t do both, and you definitley cannot be ‘…massively tanky.’ as you put it.

Also (for spvp or any format)… if things were as cut and dry as you say then noone would play power builds. To use engi again… their Soldier/Rifle power build has high power, high toughness and high HP… and happily gets it’s guaranteed crits when they matter through Sigil proc. WAY tankier than an engi condi build, with on demand burst on a much shorter cooldown.

Sorry but you’re massively generalising because you personally don’t like something… them thar facts of yours, aint no facts at all.

What skills does a power Engineer have that does high damage without an obvious animation, there are tons of stun breaks on the most random skills and stability is plentiful now so a build will usually have at least one, condition removal mostly is the one purpose of the utility or requires are trait that makes certain utilities remove one random one while the animations that cause conditions have no obvious signs, you don’t see traits that say 10% chance to causes stun on hit but you see tons of traits for 33% chance to causes condition on any hit.

Conditions do put a pretty visual red symbol next to you…

As we’re using engi… First sign you’re going to get burst is he will use his ‘Incendiary Ammo’ – this puts a very visible boon/buff symbol on the Engi. You now KNOW that his next 3 attacks are going to hurt and if you can avoid just those 3 attacks he’s going to be much much much much less of a threat. So you can dodge, or you can block or reflect or just get ready with that condi clear or…

Just saying that there may be visual clues… Also, perhaps ironically, that condi engi is highly susceptible to condition damage, and will probably just turn and run at the sight of a burn Guard… but, you can’t win ‘em all… unless you’re a Mesmer… I don’t mean that, but yeah Nerf Mesmer. No don’t, I playing Mesmer sometimes… just un-nerf them at weekends…

I have played for 2 years with multiple builds based around dodging, I know any methods of dodging conditions but they aren’t viable, they all hurt like hell and the only defense is being built around negating their damage after it hits specifically through a couple traits and utilities that doesn’t give nearly enough to survive more than a few seconds, I can dodge a hammer Warriors big hits for days and I could even dodge ranged Pin Downs before they nerfed it’s animation but you can’t dodge a Guardian causing burn every few hits and even if you clear it, it’s going to continue on every few hits while their adding more from weapon swaps and utilities that cause it instantly and you wait for your long cooldown condition removal to remove some random conditions that probably isn’t burning, not like Guardians lack defense with Shelter, Shield of Wrath and multiple sources of Aegis causing burning if you hit them.

Guardian problem, not burn problem… Like I said Engi for e.g. telegraphs it with a buff icon.

And yet that only applies on their one long duration cooldown instant skill, instead they get conditions on every single attack with low cooldowns on everything else, and as the guy above says it can be activated mid attack with a multihit skill.

Serious Thought.5394:

and pistol 4 does it too

Yeah… pistol 4 is high damage but dual wielding pistols isn’t really viable unless you feel like giving up shield and getting killed a lot.

Anyway…….condi’s suck… so does instajib power damage… so does dying in general… and you said it right there… it’s totally counterable… and if that engi ran into your Necro, he’d go and pick another fight instead…

IMO there has to be a condi like burn in the game to give condi a chance to get it’s damage in…

If a proffession is getting too much benefit from that condi then the problem is with the proffession not burn.

Except the frontloaded power burst builds usually have to deal with clearly telegraphed skills and attacks that can be negated beforehand. A lot of condi builds, with the exception of necro and guardian, get a lot of their condi damage passively (auto attack spam). Necro simply waits for your bullkitten and plays with it and guard just ports onto you from behind a wall and shreds you down.

Burst skills can be blocked, blinded, dodged, interrupted, reflected, etc. Condi can only be cleansed. Of course, a lot of you condi supporters will mention that the same applies to conditions as well since it isn’t as if you’re just throwing down fire fields and just….idk, permeating conditions from your very being. Here’s the deal though, condition builds, in general, rely on constant application of their conditions. Fortunately, Anet made it so that overall condition damage is lower, but they also introduced the ability to spike conditions. Even burn guardian mains can’t deny that them landing their nearly instant burn burst is far too rewarding in terms of damage, even moreso than landing a power burst in many cases. My guardian, who I exclusively run marauder/zerker on, can land about 6-8k whirls, depending on the amount of might I generated. Just activating torch 4 and chains>smite and then whirling with GS and then activating VoJ on the last hit nets me nearly 3-4k+ burn ticks for around kitten . This, generally, isn’t a hard combo to land and can happen VERY quickly if you’re using a rage sigil. If you’ve memorized what stunbreakers your opponent could be carrying and if they’ve been used, usually this would be an instant down.

i win! (or lose! :P)

SlayerSixx.5763:

Except the frontloaded power burst builds usually have to deal with clearly telegraphed skills and attacks that can be negated beforehand. A lot of condi builds, with the exception of necro and guardian, get a lot of their condi damage passively (auto attack spam). Necro simply waits for your bullkitten and plays with it and guard just ports onto you from behind a wall and shreds you down.

Burst skills can be blocked, blinded, dodged, interrupted, reflected, etc. Condi can only be cleansed. Of course, a lot of you condi supporters will mention that the same applies to conditions as well since it isn’t as if you’re just throwing down fire fields and just….idk, permeating conditions from your very being. Here’s the deal though, condition builds, in general, rely on constant application of their conditions. Fortunately, Anet made it so that overall condition damage is lower, but they also introduced the ability to spike conditions. Even burn guardian mains can’t deny that them landing their nearly instant burn burst is far too rewarding in terms of damage, even moreso than landing a power burst in many cases. My guardian, who I exclusively run marauder/zerker on, can land about 6-8k whirls, depending on the amount of might I generated. Just activating torch 4 and chains>smite and then whirling with GS and then activating VoJ on the last hit nets me nearly 3-4k+ burn ticks for around kitten . This, generally, isn’t a hard combo to land and can happen VERY quickly if you’re using a rage sigil. If you’ve memorized what stunbreakers your opponent could be carrying and if they’ve been used, usually this would be an instant down.

I wouldn’t even be posting here if this thread was titled ’What’s wrong with Guardians’ (screenshot).

Peace.

Actually SlayerSixx, Necromancers CAN just give conditions from their very being with Reaper (chill and vulnerability and even burn if you trait it right just from being within 400-500 range of them while in shroud). Becoming a walking condition field of fun that pulses every second.

Runiir.6425:

Actually SlayerSixx, Necromancers CAN just give conditions from their very being with Reaper (chill and vulnerability and even burn if you trait it right just from being within 400-500 range of them while in shroud). Becoming a walking condition field of fun that pulses every second.

Guardian can pulse burn with torch and a trait that uses the torch skill most of the time already, plague already pulses stuff too.

Well, they’re very few cases which is why they aren’t focused on.

@Dirty

Fair enough, man.

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

shout warrior also removes condis for the whole team. so it makes dealing with condis easier for everyone. ive nuterd condi so many burn guardians with it in team fights.

carrion rifle is just one of the many engineer builds i play (think ill be jamming cele scrapper when HoT hits), from end of game breakdowns i can tell it usually does about equal power & condi damage.
it doesnt have a lot of condi clear only healing turret (3 condis) & elixer S (2 condis split over 2 skills), but i can still beat burn guardians & other condi builds with it 1v1.

sure condi is annoying, but if you learn how to clear condis long enough to kill them its not that bad.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

shout warrior also removes condis for the whole team. so it makes dealing with condis easier for everyone. ive nuterd condi so many burn guardians with it in team fights.

carrion rifle is just one of the many engineer builds i play (think ill be jamming cele scrapper when HoT hits), from end of game breakdowns i can tell it usually does about equal power & condi damage.
it doesnt have a lot of condi clear only healing turret (3 condis) & elixer S (2 condis split over 2 skills), but i can still beat burn guardians & other condi builds with it 1v1.

sure condi is annoying, but if you learn how to clear condis long enough to kill them its not that bad.

You have like two of the top builds for dealing with conditions so naturally you can’t complain, only thing better would be a Necromancer with a ton of transfers.

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

choovanski.5462:

you need to do two things when fighting a condi build: manage your condis & kill them.
you will always run put of clears, so cc them & damage them so they cant apply any more.

i can beat burn builds on engi or warrior easy, dont play much else but its all about running condi clear & using it well. all my breakdowns at the END OF THE MATCH for damage taken will have condi damage as about half of power damage revived. of course, often i dont die all game so idk maybe i have a magic wizard power against condis.

So carrion condition Engineer and a cleric shout Warrior according to your signature. One’s part of this thread and the other is probably the build with most condition removal available besides a Necromancer.

shout warrior also removes condis for the whole team. so it makes dealing with condis easier for everyone. ive nuterd condi so many burn guardians with it in team fights.

carrion rifle is just one of the many engineer builds i play (think ill be jamming cele scrapper when HoT hits), from end of game breakdowns i can tell it usually does about equal power & condi damage.
it doesnt have a lot of condi clear only healing turret (3 condis) & elixer S (2 condis split over 2 skills), but i can still beat burn guardians & other condi builds with it 1v1.

sure condi is annoying, but if you learn how to clear condis long enough to kill them its not that bad.

You have like two of the top builds for dealing with conditions so naturally you can’t complain, only thing better would be a Necromancer with a ton of transfers.

if theif takes HiS & shadow step with shadows embrace they have as much condi clear as my engi does. idk why they are complaining.