Guild Wars 2

How is it possible that this amulet makes every build so forgiving with the same benefits almost like marauder or berserker along with condis and healing power.I don’t think that eles or engis or whatever is overpowered this cancer (celestial amulet) has absolutely no balance at all compared to the rest of stats. Build diversity is not all about traits but about stats as well…

Except it doesn’t.

Slapinator.4196:

How is it possible that this amulet makes every build so forgiving with the same benefits almost like marauder or berserker along with condis and healing power.I don’t think that eles or engis or whatever is overpowered this cancer (celestial amulet) has absolutely no balance at all compared to the rest of stats. Build diversity is not all about traits but about stats as well…

Yea, pretty much the conclusion I think a lot of people are coming to, particularly since only 1 class is really worth calling OP while using a cele amulet right now (ele).

Engineers are balanced at best with cele (some might argue underpowered), but even TCG’s engineer ran with Soldier’s over Cele in the last EU tourney and shoutbow is pretty a shadow of its former self post-patch.

Dahkeus.8243:

Slapinator.4196:

How is it possible that this amulet makes every build so forgiving with the same benefits almost like marauder or berserker along with condis and healing power.I don’t think that eles or engis or whatever is overpowered this cancer (celestial amulet) has absolutely no balance at all compared to the rest of stats. Build diversity is not all about traits but about stats as well…

Yea, pretty much the conclusion I think a lot of people are coming to, particularly since only 1 class is really worth calling OP while using a cele amulet right now (ele).

Engineers are balanced at best with cele (some might argue underpowered), but even TCG’s engineer ran with Soldier’s over Cele in the last EU tourney and shoutbow is pretty a shadow of its former self post-patch.

I think you might have misunderstood him because of his poor english.
The way that I read this, is that OP believes Celestial Amulet is Overpowered, claiming it is competitive with Zerker and Marauder in terms of damage, but allows the user to have defense as well.

This was arguably relatively true prior to the June 23rd patch.

In my opinion, there really ought to be more variants (particularly for condition builds) similar to Marauder, mostly specialized, but splashing in a fourth statline for the justification of more stats over the baseline 3000, (marauders is 3220, from what I remember).

I think celestial amulets would be fine if other classes were built around doing everything. The problem is the game isn’t built around that at all and elementalist is the only one who can do everything.

Maybe it’s more of an elementalist balance problem with have insane amounts of boon stacking, burning being still incredibly strong, and having insane amounts of healing.

Being jack of all trades is fine, but being a king of all trades is not.

alemfi.5107:

Dahkeus.8243:

Slapinator.4196:

How is it possible that this amulet makes every build so forgiving with the same benefits almost like marauder or berserker along with condis and healing power.I don’t think that eles or engis or whatever is overpowered this cancer (celestial amulet) has absolutely no balance at all compared to the rest of stats. Build diversity is not all about traits but about stats as well…

Yea, pretty much the conclusion I think a lot of people are coming to, particularly since only 1 class is really worth calling OP while using a cele amulet right now (ele).

Engineers are balanced at best with cele (some might argue underpowered), but even TCG’s engineer ran with Soldier’s over Cele in the last EU tourney and shoutbow is pretty a shadow of its former self post-patch.

I think you might have misunderstood him because of his poor english.
The way that I read this, is that OP believes Celestial Amulet is Overpowered, claiming it is competitive with Zerker and Marauder in terms of damage, but allows the user to have defense as well.

This was arguably relatively true prior to the June 23rd patch.

In my opinion, there really ought to be more variants (particularly for condition builds) similar to Marauder, mostly specialized, but splashing in a fourth statline for the justification of more stats over the baseline 3000, (marauders is 3220, from what I remember).

Ahh, well then I guess there aren’t quite as many people coming to that conclusion (yet) as I originally though, lol!

Glitchfull.5826:

I think celestial amulets would be fine if other classes were built around doing everything. The problem is the game isn’t built around that at all and elementalist is the only one who can do everything.

Maybe it’s more of an elementalist balance problem with have insane amounts of boon stacking, burning being still incredibly strong, and having insane amounts of healing.

Being jack of all trades is fine, but being a king of all trades is not.

That IS a problem, but the reverse is also true: celestial amulet is the only thing that made eles viable again after 1 year of being the worst class after all the nerfs. And celestial is still the only viable amulet choice for elementalists in pvp.

No matter what spec or function, eles will always need vitality and toughness because they have the worst of both base stats and no real active defense skills, and they always need condition damage and power and crit and ferocity because they don’t have condition weapons or power weapons, all of their stuff does basically all the things, only far worse than other classes by default – then celestial stats come and make everything good or even too good (the latter is mostly the burning though right now).

An ele with zerker or marauder amulet just explodes in pvp, with no stealth or blocks or something to survive (what little active defense they have in focus and cantrips has the longest CDs of all classes). The same is true for all amulets that don’t give toughness + vitality while also offering enough offensive.

celestial pvp amulet is fine and balanced, there is nothing wrong with it.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Glitchfull.5826:

I think celestial amulets would be fine if other classes were built around doing everything. The problem is the game isn’t built around that at all and elementalist is the only one who can do everything.

Maybe it’s more of an elementalist balance problem with have insane amounts of boon stacking, burning being still incredibly strong, and having insane amounts of healing.

Being jack of all trades is fine, but being a king of all trades is not.

That IS a problem, but the reverse is also true: celestial amulet is the only thing that made eles viable again after 1 year of being the worst class after all the nerfs. And celestial is still the only viable amulet choice for elementalists in pvp.

No matter what spec or function, eles will always need vitality and toughness because they have the worst of both base stats and no real active defense skills, and they always need condition damage and power and crit and ferocity because they don’t have condition weapons or power weapons, all of their stuff does basically all the things, only far worse than other classes by default – then celestial stats come and make everything good or even too good (the latter is mostly the burning though right now).

An ele with zerker or marauder amulet just explodes in pvp, with no stealth or blocks or something to survive (what little active defense they have in focus and cantrips has the longest CDs of all classes). The same is true for all amulets that don’t give toughness + vitality while also offering enough offensive.

Yea, any nerfs to ele need to be very, very careful since they were in such a bad spot before cele. From a design perspective, the stats of cele are wonderful for eles and make for very interesting hybrid gameplay on a class that be very complex.

However, they’re still overtuned and need to be adjusted.

Right now cele only works the best on ele. It doesn’t work well on engi because of the incendiary powder trait line move, making it impossible to have good direct damage, condition pressure, and sustain in one build. It similarly sucks on warrior now too.

It is however much better on necromancer now, but mainly due to very reliable might stacking from the revised spite line. They don’t really benefit from the extra healing power as much due to the ICD issues with the vamp signet.

it has 30%-25% more stats than every amulet in the game. that’s what’s wrong.

combine that with professions (elementalist/engineer/necro) that can utilize every stat in the game within one build, and boom, recipe for disaster.

1. Power is a really profitable stat, and when you switch to celestial, you lack a lot of power.

2. If you really want to take profit of celestial, then you really have to take profit of all stats. If you ignore two stats, then you are really wrong. Even if you ignore just one stat, you don’t take any profit out of celestial.

Vitality and Thoughness can always be good. You can appreciate Power/Precision/Ferocity, but your power will be really unbalanced. Then usually, the bonus come from conditions and healing power, but again, at the cost of power.

As an engineer, I switched to Celestial lately. Mainly because since the patch, I needed :
1. Precision+healing power, for the new trait “bunker down”.
2. Any damages
3. While I appreciate thoughness + vitality

This is not about our defense with thoughness/vitality, neither about our attack with power/ferocity/condition, this is more because we need this bridge between healing power and precision.

Also, you take celestial not because you take profit of all stats so it give you an advantage. You take celestial because you just NEED all stats. Even if celestial had the same total amount of stats than others, you would take it because you just need it … but then, this would be really unfair because your power would be really so low and unbalanced without any compensation.

Brother, I have no idea what game you’re playing, but perma sustain builds no longer exist. What’s really kicking your kitten is the incredible burn damage that can be applied, but that isn’t an Ele specific issue.

Cele amulet is fine, eles are not; simple.

I honestly don’t think the “Ele has been weak for so long” arguement as something to defend keeping them where they are. Ranger hasn’t been used much at all besides when condition builds were king and when people didn’t understand how to deal with spirit builds but they still receive nerfs on things that are possibly abusable.

Cut the celestial stat boost down to be more in line with other amulets, revise how ele heals from passive to a more active approach, and buff the ele’s health pool to compensate for the changes.

The stat reduction being the main concern here since it’s what really is throwing the ele and necro from strong to nearly 100% pick.

Necro 100% pick? In what world? Also, passive heals are OP? My friend, this is a serious l2p issue. You might wanna consult someone for some advice.

Top teams almost always pick necro and you can literally roll through all attunements and heal for insane amounts. I’m not saying “Ele is op because I can’t beat them” I’m saying “Ele is too strong and it’s boring to play Ele” I play an elementalist, I don’t like that my class is so easy to play and is also insanely strong too.

Roll through fire for those OP heals eh?

Did you not read my post and then fully think about it? Their passive healing is too strong A.K.A. signet. They don’t need to be attuned to water to keep up good healing. It’s a double issue. Their passive heal is so strong it’s dumb not to use it, and it’s not interruptable, while all of their active heals are too weak for PvP.

Currently celestial works really well only for one profession: elementalist. D/D elementalist can stack might at ease to compensate the relative loss power. At the same time elementalist can have lots of sustain (almost permanent regeneration, very strong passive heal from the signet, high uptime of protection), boons, very good condition cleanse, good mobility, good condition and direct damage. I would argue that cele D/D is overpowered because of the profession design, not because of the amulet.

Necromancer can also now benefit from the celestial amulet thanks to signets of suffering trait.

Celestial warrior builds, namely the shoutbow, are out of fashion.

Engineers got hit really hard with this patch and are now a bottom tier profession. The trait synergy is no longer there, the amount of bugs remaining is astounding and half of the traits are lack luster. Most engineers seem to go condition (carrion amulet) or soldier.

I do not know any meta builds which use the celestial amulet for thief, mesmer, ranger or guardian. I don’t have access to statistics, but I have a hunch that marauder is now the most popular amulet, then berserker amulet, then carrion, then maybe celestial. Outside spvp celestial has never been really popular. WvWvW zergs favors soldier. Pve favors berserker.

Almost every single player uses the popular sigils (air/fire/doom/geomancy/intelligence/energy) and runes (strength/hoelbrak/vampirism/pack/pirate/krait etc). I would say the over used sigils + runes are clearly a bigger problem now.

Glitchfull.5826:

Did you not read my post and then fully think about it? Their passive healing is too strong A.K.A. signet. They don’t need to be attuned to water to keep up good healing. It’s a double issue. Their passive heal is so strong it’s dumb not to use it, and it’s not interruptable, while all of their active heals are too weak for PvP.

It’s also the only viable heal eles have, just like warrior’s healing signet.

Without the signet eles are completely unviable – again, because they lack the active defense stuff, so they make up for it in sustained healing.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Currently celestial works really well only for one profession: elementalist. D/D elementalist can stack might at ease to compensate the relative loss power. At the same time elementalist can have lots of sustain (almost permanent regeneration, very strong passive heal from the signet, high uptime of protection), boons, very good condition cleanse, good mobility, good condition and direct damage. I would argue that cele D/D is overpowered because of the profession design, not because of the amulet.

Necromancer can also now benefit from the celestial amulet thanks to signets of suffering trait.

Celestial warrior builds, namely the shoutbow, are out of fashion.

Engineers got hit really hard with this patch and are now a bottom tier profession. The trait synergy is no longer there, the amount of bugs remaining is astounding and half of the traits are lack luster. Most engineers seem to go condition (carrion amulet) or soldier.

I do not know any meta builds which use the celestial amulet for thief, mesmer, ranger or guardian. I don’t have access to statistics, but I have a hunch that marauder is now the most popular amulet, then berserker amulet, then carrion, then maybe celestial. Outside spvp celestial has never been really popular. WvWvW zergs favors soldier. Pve favors berserker.

Almost every single player uses the popular sigils (air/fire/doom/geomancy/intelligence/energy) and runes (strength/hoelbrak/pirate/krait etc). I would say the over used sigils + runes are clearly a bigger problem now.

This is probably the best description of celestial builds in the current meta that I have seen on the forums. Everything you said is true, and I really don’t want cele to be nerfed just to nerf D/D ele, since that would throw balanced specs like cele necro into the gutter. D/D ele mainly needs its burning application and some of its healing nerfed in my opinion, with the signet of restoration being a prime candidate.

Also in the past some ranger builds, that used spirits/traps/beastmastery were viable with celestial. But even then carrion was arguable better for spirts/traps and settlers was better for regen condi tank builds.. and now that spirits and traps are a bit displaced, there isn’t much reason to go cele at all anymore, even though axe/dagger and shortbow are the 2 of the best examples of hybrid weaponsets in the game in my opinion.

Laraley.7695:

Except it doesn’t.

It does for classes that have access to a large amount of burns because this is stupidly increasing the damage output of these classes.

Celestial amulet is fine where it is, burns are not, burns are making celestial much stronger than it is, because if you’ll notice, the only classes actually making good use of it, are engineers and ele’s, both of which can pretty much spam burns.