Guild Wars 2

Many abilities that knock you off your feet still function as a sort of “Super stun”. They’re better than stuns because in some cases, you can’t immediately use your stunbreaker, and in others, you can stunbreak out but are still locked down (cant move or use abilities) for a set amount of time.

Why are there 2 classes of stun in this game, one that stunbreakers break immediately 100% of the time, and one that stunbreakers don’t break immediately 100% of the time? When thief had it (Basilisk Venom) it was ruled OP and fixed. Why does it remain for a number of other classes with access to KB/KD and other similar abilities?

It should be fixed already.

Because when you’re knocked back into the air it would seem really silly if you were to magically stand on your feet. Im sure ANet kept this for smoother gameplay.
It’s not OP, it just takes more skill to realise when you can use your stun break effectively and I prefer it like this.

Jax.5261:

Because when you’re knocked back into the air it would seem really silly if you were to magically stand on your feet. Im sure ANet kept this for smoother gameplay.
It’s not OP, it just takes more skill to realise when you can use your stun break effectively and I prefer it like this.

It takes more skill to wait till u stop bouncing?
What is your definition of skill sir?

Jax.5261:

Because when you’re knocked back into the air it would seem really silly if you were to magically stand on your feet. Im sure ANet kept this for smoother gameplay.
It’s not OP, it just takes more skill to realise when you can use your stun break effectively and I prefer it like this.

It’s pretty clearly OP. Depriving a player control over their character is hands down the strongest ability in any MMO ever. Designers tend to realize this and give players stunbreakers so it becomes a game of skill – those using the stun have to learn when and where to use their stuns to maximize DPS, and those being stunned have to know when to effectively use their stunbreakers – don’t stunbreak a 2s fear, do stunbreak a BV or the stun from a GS bearing warrior.

Introducing a stun that cannot be broken is just silly. Anet agreed when it came to BV – 1.5 seconds was far too long to deprive a player character control when a theif was around, but 2-3 seconds is fine for some other classes?

Edit: Also, side note – sillier than men throwing fire from their bare hands, teleporting around the map, summoning human beings and monsters from thin air, or turning a man to solid stone (and then having said man just “shrug it off” while reappearing in a flash of lighting)?

The stun+ is caused from not being able to use skill while midair. You used to be able to do it but they made it so you can’t because of people abusing land skills while swimming by jumping out of the water. (Is what I’ve read from forum scavenging over the time gw2 been out.) Stun+ is caused by blowout skills btw, its not random.

Jax.5261:

Because when you’re knocked back into the air it would seem really silly if you were to magically stand on your feet. Im sure ANet kept this for smoother gameplay.
It’s not OP, it just takes more skill to realise when you can use your stun break effectively and I prefer it like this.

Launches already have the benefit of displacing the target and stunning them. That is what distinguishes launches from stuns – forcing the target to move to another location.

Launches do not need the extra benefit of putting stunbreakers on full cooldown with no effect. Launches don’t depend on this bug in order to be useful. If stunbreakers cleansed launches at any given point during the animation, launches will STILL be useful. That is the issue here.

It’s strangely the short distance blowouts that are the worst. Getting banished is bad, but at least you won’t get banished and then eat a burst immediately. If you get updrafted, you’re in for some pain.

I’m not usually for making things easier/simpler but I do think it would be good to not allow the stunbreaker to be “wasted” if you use it in the air. It’s not really a fun mechanic and makes stunbreakers to confusing for new players, who already don’t see the need to bring them. It’s just bad learning curve to then punish them for taking one and using it at an appropriate time, but then making it have no effect because, well, you weren’t quite done bouncing yet.

Noctis Assassin.4035:

The stun+ is caused from not being able to use skill while midair. You used to be able to do it but they made it so you can’t because of people abusing land skills while swimming by jumping out of the water. (Is what I’ve read from forum scavenging over the time gw2 been out.) Stun+ is caused by blowout skills btw, its not random.

I honestly can’t understand how any length of unbreakable stun would be fair. In a game that’s supposed to be team based, any player control removing ability that can’t be broken is free Focus fire, and if it absolutely can’t be countered…well, you’ve got yourself a tremendous imbalance. That was the problem with BV, and it was fixed.

I really like to use rifle with my engineer for the net shot and overcharged shot. Then the bombs(Big ol Bomb) and oh theres more: The mine and the ram.

Fun how often you can knock someone around… and knock down that holes in Temple of the Silent Storm… but necro also sometimes feared me and made me run down.

I don’t think there is anything you can use against fear?

Luthan.5236:

I don’t think there is anything you can use against fear?

Fear can be removed by anything that breaks stun and it is prevented by stability. It’s also a condition, so condition cleansing effects can and will remove fear.

Fear can be removed but I don’t think anyone will waste a Stun Breaker on that 2s Short duration unless they are in dye situation.

With Updraft, I believe as soon as you hit the floor, hit Stability Skill or Teleport away, you can get up straight away.

KD/KB have longer recharge, casttime and and stronger effect. If you nerf the effect (which doesn’t need nerfing) you make it so it’s weaker than all other forms of stun. All the KD/KB I can think of are easily dodgable too.
They wouldn’t be effective due to you not even being able to knock a player off a point before they stun break, it would be silly.

Understanding game mechanics is part of skill, if you know the exact point in time to stun break, that’s skill. Even though it’s really small and simple that’s what a skilled player takes into account, every little small thing and it adds up. I’ve never considered knowing when to use your stun breakers not skillful.

PS: Wrote this on my tablet that’s why it’s so badly written

Stealth.9324:

Fear can be removed but I don’t think anyone will waste a Stun Breaker on that 2s Short duration unless they are in dye situation.

With Updraft, I believe as soon as you hit the floor, hit Stability Skill or Teleport away, you can get up straight away.

That is unfortunately not how it works. If you shadow return from an Updraft, you will port back…to be “stunned” for the normal duration of the ability in a different place.

Jax.5261:

KD/KB have longer recharge, casttime and and stronger effect. If you nerf the effect (which doesn’t need nerfing) you make it so it’s weaker than all other forms of stun. All the KD/KB I can think of are easily dodgable too.
They wouldn’t be effective due to you not even being able to knock a player off a point before they stun break, it would be silly.

Understanding game mechanics is part of skill, if you know the exact point in time to stun break, that’s skill. Even though it’s really small and simple that’s what a skilled player takes into account, every little small thing and it adds up. I’ve never considered knowing when to use your stun breakers not skillful.

PS: Wrote this on my tablet that’s why it’s so badly written

How is a stun+displacement (knocking people in and out of combo fields, into environmental hazards, off points) weaker than just a stun? Why does it need to be unbreakable in addition?

You don’t get infinite dodges – something being dodgable doesn’t make it ok for that ability to be the only effect in the game that’s a guaranteed unbreakable stun. There’s no skill involved with “I hit you with this ability, so eat it for 3 seconds and you have absolutely no recourse”. To clarify, I’m not claiming “wah, I hit my stunbreaker and it didn’t work”, I’m saying “I know my stunbreaker doesn’t work on this skill, and that’s the problem. There shouldn’t be 2 classes of stuns in the game, 1 which is breakable by an ability explicitly designed to break stun, and one that isnt.”

When you change something that’s clearly OP, its a fix not a nerf. Thats why BV was fixed, not nerfed.

Edit: Just a quick glance at Personal Battering Ram and Updraft counter your “Longer casting time/longer recharge” argument. .25s ct 45cd with a 20% reduction talent for Battering ram and Instant with a 40s CD for Updraft – not exactly crippling cast times and CD’s.

evilapprentice.6379:

Jax.5261:

KD/KB have longer recharge, casttime and and stronger effect. If you nerf the effect (which doesn’t need nerfing) you make it so it’s weaker than all other forms of stun. All the KD/KB I can think of are easily dodgable too.
They wouldn’t be effective due to you not even being able to knock a player off a point before they stun break, it would be silly.

Understanding game mechanics is part of skill, if you know the exact point in time to stun break, that’s skill. Even though it’s really small and simple that’s what a skilled player takes into account, every little small thing and it adds up. I’ve never considered knowing when to use your stun breakers not skillful.

PS: Wrote this on my tablet that’s why it’s so badly written

How is a stun+displacement (knocking people in and out of combo fields, into environmental hazards, off points) weaker than just a stun? Why does it need to be unbreakable in addition?

You don’t get infinite dodges – something being dodgable doesn’t make it ok for that ability to be the only effect in the game that’s a guaranteed unbreakable stun. There’s no skill involved with “I hit you with this ability, so eat it for 3 seconds and you have absolutely no recourse”. To clarify, I’m not claiming “wah, I hit my stunbreaker and it didn’t work”, I’m saying “I know my stunbreaker doesn’t work on this skill, and that’s the problem. There shouldn’t be 2 classes of stuns in the game, 1 which is breakable by an ability explicitly designed to break stun, and one that isnt.”

When you change something that’s clearly OP, its a fix not a nerf. Thats why BV was fixed, not nerfed.

You’ll probably need to re-read what I wrote.
It isn’t OP. Your stun breakers do work on these skills.

To respond to your edit: Although I’ve always felt updraft needs a cast time nerf to 3/4s. The ele has to be in the Air attunement to cast this spell, this means it’s really prefictable even though its cast time is short.
I don’t know enough about enigneers to know why personal battering ram isn’t a super viable skill. But I wouldn’t feel it’s overpowered.
You’re not actually disproving anything, updraft having an activation time that needs a nerf does not mean ALL KD/KB NEED NERFs.

Jax.5261:

evilapprentice.6379:

Jax.5261:

KD/KB have longer recharge, casttime and and stronger effect. If you nerf the effect (which doesn’t need nerfing) you make it so it’s weaker than all other forms of stun. All the KD/KB I can think of are easily dodgable too.
They wouldn’t be effective due to you not even being able to knock a player off a point before they stun break, it would be silly.

Understanding game mechanics is part of skill, if you know the exact point in time to stun break, that’s skill. Even though it’s really small and simple that’s what a skilled player takes into account, every little small thing and it adds up. I’ve never considered knowing when to use your stun breakers not skillful.

PS: Wrote this on my tablet that’s why it’s so badly written

How is a stun+displacement (knocking people in and out of combo fields, into environmental hazards, off points) weaker than just a stun? Why does it need to be unbreakable in addition?

You don’t get infinite dodges – something being dodgable doesn’t make it ok for that ability to be the only effect in the game that’s a guaranteed unbreakable stun. There’s no skill involved with “I hit you with this ability, so eat it for 3 seconds and you have absolutely no recourse”. To clarify, I’m not claiming “wah, I hit my stunbreaker and it didn’t work”, I’m saying “I know my stunbreaker doesn’t work on this skill, and that’s the problem. There shouldn’t be 2 classes of stuns in the game, 1 which is breakable by an ability explicitly designed to break stun, and one that isnt.”

When you change something that’s clearly OP, its a fix not a nerf. Thats why BV was fixed, not nerfed.

You’ll probably need to re-read what I wrote.
It isn’t OP. Your stun breakers do work on these skills.

To respond to your edit: Although I’ve always felt updraft needs a cast time nerf to 3/4s. The ele has to be in the Air attunement to cast this spell, this means it’s really prefictable even though its cast time is short.
I don’t know enough about enigneers to know why personal battering ram isn’t a super viable skill. But I wouldn’t feel it’s overpowered.
You’re not actually disproving anything, updraft having an activation time that needs a nerf does not mean ALL KD/KB NEED NERFs.

Again, when you change an OP skill its a fix – a nerf would imply that they lost something. I don’t believe Anet sat down and said “Lets make blowout an unbreakable stun” – its a side effect of something else. It should be fixed. It’s already a stun+displacement. It shouldn’t be unbreakable in addition.

Stun breakers do not work the way they do with all other stuns on these skills. If I’m hit with ANY stun, I hit my stunbreaker, and viola, I’m no longer stunned. If I shadow return out of an updraft, I’m left sitting in that spot for the length of the skill, still stunned – my toolbar is locked down, and I cant move or dodge. That’s not at all like when I hit my stunbreaker on other stuns, and I CAN Move, dodge, and use my skills.

evilapprentice.6379:

That is unfortunately not how it works. If you shadow return from an Updraft, you will port back…to be “stunned” for the normal duration of the ability in a different place.

This doesn’t happen if you wait to use shadowstep/return when your body has settled on the ground, about 1.5 seconds after being updrafted.

evilapprentice.6379:

How is a stun+displacement (knocking people in and out of combo fields, into environmental hazards, off points) weaker thban just a stun? Why does it need to be unbreakable in addition?

You don’t get infinite dodges – something being dodgable doesn’t make it ok for that ability to be the only effect in the game that’s a guaranteed unbreakable stun. There’s no skill involved with “I hit you with this ability, so eat it for 3 seconds and you have absolutely no recourse”. To clarify, I’m not claiming “wah, I hit my stunbreaker and it didn’t work”, I’m saying “I know my stunbreaker doesn’t work on this skill, and that’s the problem. There shouldn’t be 2 classes of stuns in the game, 1 which is breakable by an ability explicitly designed to break stun, and one that isnt.”

When you change something that’s clearly OP, its a fix not a nerf. Thats why BV was fixed, not nerfed.

Edit: Just a quick glance at Personal Battering Ram and Updraft counter your “Longer casting time/longer recharge” argument. .25s ct 45cd with a 20% reduction talent for Battering ram and Instant with a 40s CD for Updraft – not exactly crippling cast times and CD’s.

Launches (in your case stun+) are not unbreakable, don’t force you to eat 3 seconds of death without recourse, and updraft knocks you back half the distance compared to battering ram, hence the difference in cast times.

There are few skills in the game that launch, and you have to time your stunbreaker, rather than spam it whenever you’re disabled.

Cirax.9231:

evilapprentice.6379:

That is unfortunately not how it works. If you shadow return from an Updraft, you will port back…to be “stunned” for the normal duration of the ability in a different place.

This doesn’t happen if you wait to use shadowstep/return when your body has settled on the ground, about 1.5 seconds after being updrafted.

evilapprentice.6379:

How is a stun+displacement (knocking people in and out of combo fields, into environmental hazards, off points) weaker thban just a stun? Why does it need to be unbreakable in addition?

You don’t get infinite dodges – something being dodgable doesn’t make it ok for that ability to be the only effect in the game that’s a guaranteed unbreakable stun. There’s no skill involved with “I hit you with this ability, so eat it for 3 seconds and you have absolutely no recourse”. To clarify, I’m not claiming “wah, I hit my stunbreaker and it didn’t work”, I’m saying “I know my stunbreaker doesn’t work on this skill, and that’s the problem. There shouldn’t be 2 classes of stuns in the game, 1 which is breakable by an ability explicitly designed to break stun, and one that isnt.”

When you change something that’s clearly OP, its a fix not a nerf. Thats why BV was fixed, not nerfed.

Edit: Just a quick glance at Personal Battering Ram and Updraft counter your “Longer casting time/longer recharge” argument. .25s ct 45cd with a 20% reduction talent for Battering ram and Instant with a 40s CD for Updraft – not exactly crippling cast times and CD’s.

Launches (in your case stun+) are not unbreakable, don’t force you to eat 3 seconds of death without recourse, and updraft knocks you back half the distance compared to battering ram, hence the difference in cast times.

There are few skills in the game that launch, and you have to time your stunbreaker, rather than spam it whenever you’re disabled.

So its only 1.5 seconds of unbreakable stun then? I suppose that’s not as bad as 3s, but still unacceptable. No skill should have even .1s of unbreakable stun.

The reason I “Spam” my stunbreaker after an updraft is because its always, ALWAYS followed by Burning Speed->Ring of Fire-> Fire grab. I wonder why that is? Is it because the ele knows, for a fact, that you’ll still be there because most stunbreakers don’t work for a set amount of time after updraft? I’m willing to bet yes!

Any other stun, it’d be a matter of skill. “Do I launch into my expensive DPS combo after I’ve stunned my opponent? If they stunbreak out and this misses, I’ll be at a disadvantage. Did they already use their stunbreak? What are the chances they’re running 2?” These are just some of the questions a player has to ask themselves after using a stun. Unless they used something that sends their target bouncing across the ground of course, in which case they’re just free to hit buttons, because there is no skill or counterplay involved, they know they’ve got a set amount of time before their target has a chance to react.

evilapprentice.6379:

So its only 1.5 seconds of unbreakable stun then? I suppose that’s not as bad as 3s, but still unacceptable. No skill should have even .1s of unbreakable stun.

The reason I “Spam” my stunbreaker after an updraft is because its always, ALWAYS followed by Burning Speed->Ring of Fire-> Fire grab. I wonder why that is? Is it because the ele knows, for a fact, that you’ll still be there because most stunbreakers don’t work for a set amount of time after updraft? I’m willing to bet yes!

I do agree it sucks being launched and you have to wait a bit to use a stun break, but it’s a mechanic in the game so our opinions are subjective.

However, you should still be able to time your stun break after being updrafted before the ele can use the burning speed combo – I’ve avoided the combo after being updrafted, as well as seen enemy players escape mine as well. Try it with a friend in the mists – once you get the timing, it’s not that bad.

Cirax.9231:

evilapprentice.6379:

So its only 1.5 seconds of unbreakable stun then? I suppose that’s not as bad as 3s, but still unacceptable. No skill should have even .1s of unbreakable stun.

The reason I “Spam” my stunbreaker after an updraft is because its always, ALWAYS followed by Burning Speed->Ring of Fire-> Fire grab. I wonder why that is? Is it because the ele knows, for a fact, that you’ll still be there because most stunbreakers don’t work for a set amount of time after updraft? I’m willing to bet yes!

I do agree it sucks being launched and you have to wait a bit to use a stun break, but it’s a mechanic in the game so our opinions are subjective.

However, you should still be able to time your stun break after being updrafted before the ele can use the burning speed combo – I’ve avoided the combo after being updrafted, as well as seen enemy players escape mine as well. Try it with a friend in the mists – once you get the timing, it’s not that bad.

For that specific example, sure. There are other times when some secondary player mauls me while I’m bouncing across the floor. My point is still that there shouldn’t be any period of time where a stun is 100% uncounterable- it’s just bad design.

As far as I can tell (and I admit my assumption here may be wrong, but I don’t believe it is) the reason launches are unbreakable is because at some point, Anet disallowed the use of skills mid air because people were abusing it in some maps in a manner unrelated to stunbreaks (i believe they were launching ground skills mid-air while jumping out of water, or something like that) – this had the (again, my assumption from my experience) unintended side effect of making launches unbreakable for a certain period of time.

I’m comfortable in my assumption because in a game that claims it wants to be an E-sport, any length of unbreakable stun is unacceptable – it completely kills any notion of counterplay – its an instant advantage with no counter. They realized that was the case with Basilisk Venom and fixed it – giving a thief 1s to burst a target with No way to escape it was ludicrous (and I agree on this point), but any character with a launch can set up the same situation for a thief, and it’s not? It’s not about 2 players killing 1, its about setting up a situation for free DPS with no way to counter it.

i think none ever said that stuns should be equal to knockbacks etc… no reason why they should change it, maybe its even intended

MaXi.3642:

i think none ever said that stuns should be equal to knockbacks etc… no reason why they should change it, maybe its even intended

Basic MMO design dictates that if you have an ability that deprives a player of control over their character, and an ability that returns control to said player, they interact fairly uniformly (unless listed as a specific exception). Fear isn’t a stun, but stunbreakers break it because it removes player control.

You also did not address my second point – In a team based PvP MMO with E-sport as a goal, giving any class an unbreakable stun is a large imbalance – it removes all skill from the game for 1-3s by allowing uncounterable guaranteed DPS – that should never be the case.

Yes this is definitely in crucial need of a fix.

Punishing players for reacting immediately to a disable simply does not make sense in a competitive game.

These abilities need to be fixed. The arguments on why they are unfair are very solid. The arguments in there favor not so much. I play a guard and use blow out skill but really its cheap and when I’m on the other end of them I can clearly see how cheap/unbalanced they are. It is not good gameplay. At the end of the day the question should always be what is good gaemplay. If you explained how these blow out skills worked to someone who has played pvp games, but not guild wars 2, they would say its a bs mechanic without a doubt.

Huh? Is this really an issue? What class can que up and land a skill before your stun break is available. It just sounds like people panic without paying attention. There’s virtually zero risk during the blowout and ample time to gauge whether or not you even need to pop your stun break while knocked down.

hackks.3687:

Huh? Is this really an issue? What class can que up and land a skill before your stun break is available. It just sounds like people panic without paying attention. There’s virtually zero risk during the blowout and ample time to gauge whether or not you even need to pop your stun break while knocked down.

Literally any other player in the area, for starters. There are other examples, but that’s the clearest.

So then… assisting is the problem?

Edit: in almost 4k matches I can’t recall ever seeing anyone be able to hit the target before the blowout anim ends.

hackks.3687:

So then… assisting is the problem?

Edit: in almost 4k matches I can’t recall ever seeing anyone be able to hit the target before the blowout anim ends.

No, the problem is becoming a free target to anyone in the area because you have no counter to being launched. Lets take 2 examples.

A)A thief and a War – the thief hits me with BV, then the warrior charges in and Frenzy->HB’s. In this situation, I can hit my stunbreaker at any time and escape the BV and be free to react.

B)A thief and an Ele – Ele hits me with updraft – I’m a sitting duck for a fixed period of time, in which the thief can do whatever he wants with no fear of any counterplay because there’s a guaranteed period of time where I can’t possibly react.

I honestly have no idea how you could play 4k matches and never be a target when launched – it happens commonly in uncoordinated hot joins and semi-coordinated solo ques when I play. If nothing else, I’m sure you’ve fought an ele before – the standard rotation is Updraft->burning speed->ring of fire->fire grab for a reason – because they all hit you while your still bouncing along the ground. An earlier poster suggested that its possible to time the stunbreak before even the burning speed has a chance to hit you – I’ll be testing when I get home, but the fact that every single DD ele looking to do damage follows this exact same pattern tells me it’s not as easy as he’s making it sound.

Even if it is possible to break the launch effect at some period, its not immediately, meaning any ranged class can effortlessly keep plinking me (and any coordinated melee class can keep hitting me) while I’m waiting for my stunbreak to become an option.

It’s honestly just as easy as he made it out to be. The only time you are “defenseless” is while you are in the air. At which point nothing is going to be hitting you. By the time you land they will just be landing themselves and swapping to fire for burning speed. Burning speed then needs to close distance before it hits you. You watch them the whole time to see if they are actually going to hit you and whether or not to pop your stun break. Popping your stun break any sooner is a mistake and a big one at that.

Projectiles will never hit a target moving as fast as the blowout anim. No issue there. Though a smart player will know to aim where you land which is where your SB is available.

The ele rotation is so obvious and should be familiar to everyone at this point. Dodge the RTL and you’ve already won half the battle. The only have the one burst rotation and its on lengthy cd due to fire grab.

I think a lot people treat stun breaks as preventative though by and large they are better serving when used only when absolutely necessary. BV is the only on you really need to break immediately since what follows can certainly kill you. Other than that though I prefer to be as patient as possible before using my SB. It usually serves me pretty well.

If there was one CC that’s in need of some scrutiny it would be Daze. Those can ruin you and can’t be cleared.

hackks.3687:

It’s honestly just as easy as he made it out to be. The only time you are “defenseless” is while you are in the air. At which point nothing is going to be hitting you. By the time you land they will just be landing themselves and swapping to fire for burning speed. Burning speed then needs to close distance before it hits you. You watch them the whole time to see if they are actually going to hit you and whether or not to pop your stun break. Popping your stun break any sooner is a mistake and a big one at that.

Projectiles will never hit a target moving as fast as the blowout anim. No issue there. Though a smart player will know to aim where you land which is where your SB is available.

The ele rotation is so obvious and should be familiar to everyone at this point. Dodge the RTL and you’ve already won half the battle. The only have the one burst rotation and its on lengthy cd due to fire grab.

I think a lot people treat stun breaks as preventative though by and large they are better serving when used only when absolutely necessary. BV is the only on you really need to break immediately since what follows can certainly kill you. Other than that though I prefer to be as patient as possible before using my SB. It usually serves me pretty well.

If there was one CC that’s in need of some scrutiny it would be Daze. Those can ruin you and can’t be cleared.

Don’t bother bringing up dodges – If your argument is “just dodge it” then lets remove stunbreakers entirely – you should just dodge the stun. The fact is you can’t dodge everything. There’s no requirement that RTL lead into updraft.

2 additional things – I find it hard to believe that stunbreaking the combo is so easy – if it were, the combo wouldn’t be updraft->BS->RoF->FG. If it was obvious and easy to avoid this, Ele’s wouldn’t automatically perform this combo (As you’ve noted, its got a long CD) with the extreme regularity that they do. Look at the thief instagib combo – people learned to dodge it, and it’s since nearly vanished in comparison to how common it used to be – it stopped working because people learned how to counter it and it was too CD intensive to use without nigh certainty that it was going to hit, so thieves stopped rolling it. If it was easy and intuitive to hit a stunbreak and cancel out the Updraft->->->Fire grab combo, the same thing would happen to it. It hasn’t, so we can see that it’s not that simple.

Secondly, no matter how fast I’m bouncing, there’s tons of abilities that can still hit you – any intelligently aimed ground targeting ability; any effect with a radius that you happen to bounce through; anyone shooting with or at a slight enough angle to your vector of movement while bouncing. Anyone swinging in melee. You make it sound as if it’s impossible to hit a target who’s bouncing, when its actually rather simple – and there are KBs/Launches other than updraft.

Even if you’re doing no damage whatsoever, there shouldn’t be any ability that removes player control that can’t be cancelled by abilities specifically designed to counter them IN THE SAME EXACT MANNER. No Delay, no “wait until X happens”…exactly the same – you hit the stunbreaker, you’re back in control, just like every single other stun in the game. Making 2 classes of player control depriving abilities is stupid, as the one that can’t be countered immediately like the others is obviously the more powerful one, and any class with access to those abilities is going to be better than classes without said access in the long run.

RTL is the most obvious animation in the game. When you know what follows can hurt you why wouldn’t you try to dodge it? And the reason they use it with regularity is because its all they have and their sustain can allow them to hang in a fight till they can use the bulk of it again.

The rest of it just sounds like you are getting caught way out of position. Sorry but that’s just what I take from it. Most players know to aim for where you land as opposed to where you are while flying through the air. Still, when you land you have the option to break the stun. The inabity to break the stun while in mid air is countered by the fact the majority of these skills have self knock backs or long cast times as well as moving you away from them requiring them to close the distance. Other than updraft they’re generally all used to create distance not stun and spike per se.

Just takes some understanding of how the skills work.

Note: I didn’t once say L2Dodge or L2P. Just trying to be civil and constructive here. Not all players share your frustrations so there must be something to handling these kinds of skills.

hackks.3687:

RTL is the most obvious animation in the game. When you know what follows can hurt you why wouldn’t you try to dodge it? And the reason they use it with regularity is because its all they have and their sustain can allow them to hang in a fight till they can use the bulk of it again.

The rest of it just sounds like you are getting caught way out of position. Sorry but that’s just what I take from it. Most players know to aim for where you land as opposed to where you are while flying through the air. Still, when you land you have the option to break the stun. The inabity to break the stun while in mid air is countered by the fact the majority of these skills have self knock backs or long cast times as well as moving you away from them requiring them to close the distance. Other than updraft they’re generally all used to create distance not stun and spike per se.

Just takes some understanding of how the skills work.

Note: I didn’t once say L2Dodge or L2P. Just trying to be civil and constructive here. Not all players share your frustrations so there must be something to handling these kinds of skills.

My point was there are plenty of people who don’t RTL->Updraft. They know its super obvious, so they use Updraft at other times to catch people. RTL isn’t a requirement for Updraft (Like the long channel for churning earth), so it’s not Updraft itself that’s easy to dodge, its the common combo of RTL->Updraft. Regardless, “You can dodge it” isn’t a valid defense in this case – if Anets attitude to stuns was “well, you can just dodge it”, stun breakers wouldn’t exist, yet they do. You simply can’t dodge everything – sometimes, you’re going to eat a stun or a launch or a KB or a KD…etc.

You continue to miss the point – If updraft prevented the ele from doing anything for a length of time perfectly matching the launch effect, it would still be too powerful, because its a stun you cant instantly break out of, unlike nearly every other stun in the game. It’s a team game – other players exists. Ground targeted AoE’s exist. There are traps and poison fields and fire fields and Rain of arrows and wells and marks and so on and so on and so on. Some classes having access to an unbreakable stun, for any length of time, makes them more powerful than the classes that do not have access to an unbreakable stun. Anet clearly agrees with this viewpoint to some extent, because they thought Basilisk Venom being unbreakable for 1s was too powerful and adjusted it accordingly.

There are some people here agreeing – obviously I’m not the only one who feels having 2 classes of stun abilities, 1 being clearly superior, is poor design. It’s fine that you dont agree, but you still haven’t provided a case that changes my mind. I’m still of the opinion that launches being unbreakable is a side effect of disallowing skill use midair, and not a conscious design decision – Anet has been incredibly slow in fixing a number of other bugs and unintended side effects in the past, so I’m pointing out that it’s important to some of us that it be fixed. If Anet came and told me it was intended, I’d still think it was silly, but it wouldn’t be worth arguing here on the boards.

There is a period of time in which the ele can’t hit you after updraft – which goes for all launch skills but we’ll stick with ele as the example. The window of time includes when they are launched backwards and you away from them as well as the time it takes for them to close the distance and get back to your new location. This is a fact. I know it because I can count on it every time it happens and it doesn’t require super human reflexes like dealing with an instagib. There is ample time to pan your camera, see where they are in location and skill rotation and gauge whether you even need to pop your stun break at all. I could point out a handful of other CC skills that are more problematic than a launch/knock back.

If I’m not getting your point it’s because you’re not making one based on actual fact. You’re also missing my point that the issue you and others are having with this can be overcome with a little knowledge and a little practice. No twitch reflexes. No gimmicks. Just understanding and awareness.

Unless you’ve got any questions I’m going to leave it at that. Good luck.

evilapprentice.6379:

Stealth.9324:

Fear can be removed but I don’t think anyone will waste a Stun Breaker on that 2s Short duration unless they are in dye situation.

With Updraft, I believe as soon as you hit the floor, hit Stability Skill or Teleport away, you can get up straight away.

That is unfortunately not how it works. If you shadow return from an Updraft, you will port back…to be “stunned” for the normal duration of the ability in a different place.

Try to move around to see if you can.I think this is a bug and it happened quite often.What happened is when u get launched by Updraft and teleport away,it appear on the screen that you are down but if u are moving,you will still move While seeing yourself face on floor.Pretty funny but give it a try.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Jax.5261:

Because when you’re knocked back into the air it would seem really silly if you were to magically stand on your feet. Im sure ANet kept this for smoother gameplay.
It’s not OP, it just takes more skill to realise when you can use your stun break effectively and I prefer it like this.

It takes more skill to wait till u stop bouncing?
What is your definition of skill sir?

Usually when you end up at the bottom of clock tower’s stairs then yes…you can use your stunbreak, really useful..
I want an air recover like in fighting games, walljump you know…stuff like that…or just a game with skills that works properly and in the same way for EVERYONE.

Asking too much?

Luthan.5236:

I really like to use rifle with my engineer for the net shot and overcharged shot. Then the bombs(Big ol Bomb) and oh theres more: The mine and the ram.

Fun how often you can knock someone around… and knock down that holes in Temple of the Silent Storm… but necro also sometimes feared me and made me run down.

I don’t think there is anything you can use against fear?

Any condition removal or stunbreak works against fear. Not a big deal..

hackks.3687:

There is a period of time in which the ele can’t hit you after updraft – which goes for all launch skills but we’ll stick with ele as the example. The window of time includes when they are launched backwards and you away from them as well as the time it takes for them to close the distance and get back to your new location. This is a fact. I know it because I can count on it every time it happens and it doesn’t require super human reflexes like dealing with an instagib. There is ample time to pan your camera, see where they are in location and skill rotation and gauge whether you even need to pop your stun break at all. I could point out a handful of other CC skills that are more problematic than a launch/knock back.

If I’m not getting your point it’s because you’re not making one based on actual fact. You’re also missing my point that the issue you and others are having with this can be overcome with a little knowledge and a little practice. No twitch reflexes. No gimmicks. Just understanding and awareness.

Unless you’ve got any questions I’m going to leave it at that. Good luck.

I’ve mentioned something along the lines of “Team Game”, “Other Players”, “AoE”, and "Ground target AoE’ about 5 times so far, and you keep returning to the “The ele” and “updraft”.

So here it is, just one more time – Lets ignore 1 on 1 situations entirely. It’s not worth arguing them. But in a team game where other players can take advantage of a player who does not have control of their character, and for some period of time has NO WAY to regain control of their character, DESPITE specifically carrying an ability that is intended to do that very thing is poorly designed. Focus fire is a real killer in TPvP – You pick a target, and everyone does their best to kill it. If that target is hit with Basilisk venom or Throw bolas or magic bullet, or skull crack, or supply crate or any other ability that deprives the player some or all control, they have a way to escape it – its a game of give and take – DPS tries to lock you down with well timed stuns, dazes, immobilizes, etc, and the target tries to escape the worst of it with stunbreaks and condition cleanses. When certain classes have an ability that’s like a stun, only better because it can’t be broken immediately like every other stun in the game, its imbalanced.

hackks.3687:

There is a period of time in which the ele can’t hit you after updraft – which goes for all launch skills but we’ll stick with ele as the example. The window of time includes when they are launched backwards and you away from them as well as the time it takes for them to close the distance and get back to your new location. This is a fact. I know it because I can count on it every time it happens and it doesn’t require super human reflexes like dealing with an instagib. There is ample time to pan your camera, see where they are in location and skill rotation and gauge whether you even need to pop your stun break at all. I could point out a handful of other CC skills that are more problematic than a launch/knock back.

If I’m not getting your point it’s because you’re not making one based on actual fact. You’re also missing my point that the issue you and others are having with this can be overcome with a little knowledge and a little practice. No twitch reflexes. No gimmicks. Just understanding and awareness.

Unless you’ve got any questions I’m going to leave it at that. Good luck.

The ele (or anyone else using a launch) doesn’t have to do anything himself except call out the target.

No amount of practice or knowledge is going to stop a well coordinated team from focusing you into oblivion while you’re in the air.

Disables that cannot be broken, however briefly the time, are simply too powerful in a team setting. This was why Basilisk was brought down to its current state, and launches need to follow suit.

I honestly cannot understand how anyone can see this as anything but a horribly broken mechanic.

Eles gonna be eles. It is a psychological thing. The OP never sees themselves as OP; rather just better than others.

Because nobody at arena net cares about PvP.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Eles gonna be eles. It is a psychological thing. The OP never sees themselves as OP; rather just better than others.

Because launch skills are exclusive to eles right? Oh wait, warriors have an aoe launch too! Nerf asap!!!!!

@evilapprentice

You make a valid point about being vulnerable to coordinated attacks in the air. However, it still doesn’t leave a lot of time to dps if a stun break is used after landing on the ground. Having been launched numerous times, rarely I have taken severe damage while airborne. I guess it’s up for the devs to decide whether this mechanic stays or not.

When are you going to address Stun+?

When it’s ready.

You can absolutely avoid the burning speed followup from updraft if you use a stunbreak, as any profession.

Wait until you settle, stunbreak, dodge. It’ll avoid burning speed every time. Depending on terrain, you can sometimes even stunbreak and simply walk right out of the way without dodging if they try to do burning speed ASAP instead of walking towards you some first. Risky of course. Dodging works every time though after the break.

People avoid it against me pretty regularly. I also avoid it regularly against eles. You can wait quite a long time before using the stunbreak and then still dodge the burning speed, so don’t worry about trying to get it off the instant you think you can (where you might mess up and use it too early). If you do it late, they’ll be sailing towards you right as you dodge and they probably will end up wasting their fire 4 or 5 too.

With practice, you can even lay there on the ground and wait to see if they’re going to do burning speed or not, then stun break and dodge on reaction if they do. Not that I necessarily recommend doing that since it’s easy to mess up, but it can be done.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Jax.5261:

Because when you’re knocked back into the air it would seem really silly if you were to magically stand on your feet. Im sure ANet kept this for smoother gameplay.
It’s not OP, it just takes more skill to realise when you can use your stun break effectively and I prefer it like this.

It takes more skill to wait till u stop bouncing?
What is your definition of skill sir?

Hit ¹ repeatedly