Guild Wars 2

Make the lords and guards come out and attack eachother in the center of the map.

Remember when they did that in GW1? That was a good idea. You REALLY should do it again.

Hey, I do remember that! I’d definitely rather have that happen then a timer running out. Best suggestions I’ve seen on the forums in probably at least a year. =)

“Victory or Death!” – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/%22Victory_or_Death!%22

Could be interesting, but something like that would invalidate the whole point scoring system they have going on…

Reikou.7068:

Could be interesting, but something like that would invalidate the whole point scoring system they have going on…

Who cares about the score? I want a victory, not a high score.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Reikou.7068:

Could be interesting, but something like that would invalidate the whole point scoring system they have going on…

Who cares about the score? I want a victory, not a high score.

higher team score does net you a victory at the end of the match….

Reikou.7068:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Reikou.7068:

Could be interesting, but something like that would invalidate the whole point scoring system they have going on…

Who cares about the score? I want a victory, not a high score.

higher team score does net you a victory at the end of the match….

BOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRIIIIIING

I play to have fun, not sleep.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Reikou.7068:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Reikou.7068:

Could be interesting, but something like that would invalidate the whole point scoring system they have going on…

Who cares about the score? I want a victory, not a high score.

higher team score does net you a victory at the end of the match….

BOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRIIIIIING

I play to have fun, not sleep.

you can have fun by doing the exact thing you said, its call pve. barely any tactic require.

I’m just going to ignore timemaninjail, you are drunk sir, go home.

They also need to give Diamond Skin to all NPC’s, it’s way to easy to passively melt them by loading them with conditions as they run through the map, having immunity to conditions above 90% health threshold will stop that.

Not to mention thieves can abuse Caltrops invisible-bomb NPC’s.

I agree. I’d rather the game end in a stalemate than win by having points that I didn’t even notice were there until the timer pointed them out. Having the lords charge each other in a blaze of glory would be an epic finale to a drawn out slugfest of a match.

It’s not a bad idea BUT what’s gonna happen? Most of the teams gonna play full def and wait the end of the time to do something to the lord with their NPC.

Richy Lao.8346:

It’s not a bad idea BUT what’s gonna happen? Most of the teams gonna play full def and wait the end of the time to do something to the lord with their NPC.

I’d love to see a full defensive team protect and NPC while killing the enemies.

Victory or Death was a great mechanic in GW1 and I would not mind seeing it come back.

Do you guys remember why they got rid of the Victory or Death system in GW1 (or at least extremely altered the way it functioned in a match)?

Because it would essentially invalidate the rest of the efforts put in for the rest of the match, and encouraged teams to build specifically to win the VoD and try to just wait out the time passively and really only play during the time VoD became active.

That would become even more of an issue with the current point system in place.

It was altered in GW1 to a tie-breaker situation being determined by how much damage was done to the lord (as opposed to kills) to encourage attempts on the lord throughout the match since the most overall damage to the lord would win the game in the event the timer ran out with no lord kills.

In the current system though, it would be just like the issues with the original VoD. Why play the rest of the maps objectives? You can just wait and rush lord during VoD at x time for the easy (easier) kill.

It would probably just devolve into a turtle-rush strategy. Turtle defensively so your lord lives until the VoD, and rush the VoD, and if both teams play the same strategy (which is a real possibility because the team investing the energy on offensive might not ever see anything come to fruition and feel as though they wasted their time all match), then you pretty much have inaction (or pure TDM) until the VoD.

And then we will which side has more Turret.

Reikou.7068:

Could be interesting, but something like that would invalidate the whole point scoring system they have going on…

The scoring system in that map is absolutely stupid anyway and makes no sense, much like everything Arenanet does PvP, balance, and mechanic related. I mean how about them claiming “Teleports should not fire off if no path is available with our new changes” Wrong, teleports will fire off even when error message occurs and in fact fires off when it’s not supposed to more often than it did prior to changes that was supposed to fix that. I am not surprised in the slightest.

I think they’ve finally cracked and realize just how incompetent they are with PvP considering the fact they take PvP so seriously that we now have Karaoke tournaments. Esports baby, sing it! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry about that, so I think I’ll just sneeze … and then wipe the game off my hard drive.

They really do need players to beta test their garbage before release because obviously Arenanet has no hope whatsoever of ever getting it right the first time, or the second, hell even third so on and so forth up until it’s nearly three years later and the game is even worse than ever before. I can’t say I’ve played a game that was more balanced during beta / pre-launch than it is years after.

The only positive thing I can say is the new map style is refreshing and almost fun … but it’s too bad the scoring system is literally just as flawed as Arenanet’s ability to pvp / balance the game. The map has a lot of really annoying teleport issues, too. As well as NPC pathing issues, seeing a crap load of archers chilling in mid seems a little stupid if you ask me. Not to mention the map’s design overall is so terrible that it’s easy as hell to get confused in the convoluted mess of a map they designed.

Also I love how they have an extra door right next to the doors you’re actually supposed to channel npcs from. I know it’s for the NPC that you summon with the random mist power, but it’s placement is really poor and is an exact replica of the other two when it should either have a different placement or design. More oversights on their part. :l

I know this is easily a TL;DR post … but based on the quality of that map, recent / most patches, I can for sure assume Heart of Thorns is going to be a horribly imbalanced, bugged out lag-tastic crapfest waiting to happen.

jcbroe.4329:

Do you guys remember why they got rid of the Victory or Death system in GW1 (or at least extremely altered the way it functioned in a match)?

Because it would essentially invalidate the rest of the efforts put in for the rest of the match, and encouraged teams to build specifically to win the VoD and try to just wait out the time passively and really only play during the time VoD became active.

Not sure which GvG you played. Certainly wasn’t GW1’s.

The issue was players killing all the enemy NPC’s EXCEPT the lord, so when VoD activates, the enemy team won’t have any NPC’s to help for the decisive battle.

In GW1, it could be impossible to 1v3 NPC’s unless you are built for it. In GW2 it’s possible to charge in guns blazing a 1v5 the NPC’s in Foefire on a bunker Elementalist and still win.

With that into perspective, sure, you can just completely hug a door but when VoD activates all your tanky builds cannot kill the enemy players nor the guild lord.

Reikou.7068:

Could be interesting, but something like that would invalidate the whole point scoring system they have going on…

There are ways to work it in. Give each lord a buff that scales depending on your score. That way teams that just sit back and defend will be at a disadvantage if they wait out til the end and teams that push hard (getting heroes, kills, supply, etc.) will be rewarded.

Nova Stiker.8396:

jcbroe.4329:

Do you guys remember why they got rid of the Victory or Death system in GW1 (or at least extremely altered the way it functioned in a match)?

Because it would essentially invalidate the rest of the efforts put in for the rest of the match, and encouraged teams to build specifically to win the VoD and try to just wait out the time passively and really only play during the time VoD became active.

Not sure which GvG you played. Certainly wasn’t GW1’s.

The issue was players killing all the enemy NPC’s EXCEPT the lord, so when VoD activates, the enemy team won’t have any NPC’s to help for the decisive battle.

In GW1, it could be impossible to 1v3 NPC’s unless you are built for it. In GW2 it’s possible to charge in guns blazing a 1v5 the NPC’s in Foefire on a bunker Elementalist and still win.

With that into perspective, sure, you can just completely hug a door but when VoD activates all your tanky builds cannot kill the enemy players nor the guild lord.

I played pre-August 2008, where at some point people decided that until VoD there was no incentive to actually do anything other than wait for the VoD (sure people could possibly attempt to preemptively take out NPCs, but why, teams could just turtle their base and keep their NPCs up, easier to just try for the full wipe during when the VoD activated), as well as post balance update that changed the VoD mechanic to this:

Guild Battle Changes

• There is no longer any Victory or Death effect.
• There is no longer any Victory is Ours effect.
• The Guild Battle NPCs no longer walk to the flag stand.
• The Guild Lord’s Health has been reduced to 1680.
• Removed all skills on the Bodyguard except Oath of Healing.
• Removed Precision Shot from the Archers.
• Whenever a team gets a morale boost that teams Guild Lord gets an additional +300 maximum Health for the rest of the game
• The final 28 min tie breaker is changed to: “team who did the most damage to the Enemy Guild Lord wins.”
• Amulet of Protection: reduced the amount of damage the Guild Lord can take to 25 per second at the beginning of a match, scaling up to 300 damage per second later in the match.

Victory or Death has turned Guild Battles into a race to see who can destroy enemy NPCs at the flag stand during VoD the fastest. This has, in turn, caused teams to build only for this situation, slowing the rest of the game to a near standstill. In an effort to alleviate this, we’ve redesigned Victory or Death completely. We’ve removed the need to kill NPCs to secure a flag stand advantage at VoD—now, the Guild Lord walks alone, making him extremely vulnerable if unattended. Morale boosts give the Guild Lord +300 maximum Health, giving him a definite advantage during VoD, but the tie-breaker comes down to who has inflicted the most damage to the Guild Lord, encouraging split teams to attack him before VoD. The removal of the Bodyguard’s offensive abilities and the lack of Precision Shot on the archers help make the Guild Lord more vulnerable pre-VoD, and allow one or two enemies to pressure the Guild Lord, securing them an advantage if the game stalemates into a 28-minute tiebreaker.

The aim of this rework is to promote more offensive play and cause both the flag and base to matter before VoD. Teams can’t wait for the damage bonus effects of VoD to supplement a lack of offensive punch now, which should lower the amount of defensive skills a team can bring, while killing grouped-up NPCs no longer is relevant to victory. These changes have had internal testing, but we believe only a “live-fire” setting can truly reveal if these changes improve VoD without introducing bigger problems.

Anyhow, and even more to the point, the VoD mechanic was designed primarily as an attempt to avoid ties, and Stronghold, with the point system that I agreeably dislike along with the other people who have mentioned it, at least does the job of making the chances of a actual tie so slim that at this point, do any of us even know if there is a tiebreaker mechanic for Stronghold (if so, please share, because I’d be curious if it is just overtime/next point wins sudden death, or something different)?

I think the point system needs a redesign (particularly, player kills shouldn’t benefit the match point total, though they still need to be valuable in some way, like a more punishing respawn timer, or some sort of NPC speed boost on kill mechanic or something), but that with the point system in place and no need for an additional tiebreaker mechanic, the game mode would be fine as is.

Yeah it likely would devolve into that. Everybody also saying that a “defensive” team won’t have enough damage aren’t thinking that most players currently handling defense in stronghold are using OFFENSIVE builds, as in they deal lots of damage. If you encounter 5 players defending with high damage builds dropping in and out of a gate it’s not going to matter how much you spawn, and those 5 would likely murder your lord once he walks out if they make Victory or Death like some of this thread wants.

I don’t think the issues with VoD in gw1 would matter in gw2. In gw2 if you can take out enough npcs to make a difference you can just go ahead and take out the lord. In order to take out npcs in gw2 you have to play the game the intended way anyway just to get to them. Sitting back and bunkering won’t help in this game. You can’t heal npcs in gw2 like you could in gw1. Not as well at least.

I could see that as a problem if they just implemented it the same way, but if they made it so the lord was buffed or came with NPCs, depending on the progress of the team, I don’t think it would end up the same way.

For example, if you had defended your walls and took down the enemy walls along with most of their guards, then your lord would be stronger and escorted with your guards while the enemy lord would be alone and with less hp.

That way, teams that turtles until VoD would almost certainly lose.

Dahkeus.8243:

I could see that as a problem if they just implemented it the same way, but if they made it so the lord was buffed or came with NPCs, depending on the progress of the team, I don’t think it would end up the same way.

For example, if you had defended your walls and took down the enemy walls along with most of their guards, then your lord would be stronger and escorted with your guards while the enemy lord would be alone and with less hp.

That way, teams that turtles until VoD would almost certainly lose.

Of course it can’t be implemented the same way, but the same concept.

Instead of just ending the match on a timer, it would be infinitely more fun to have a final brawl to the death.

jcbroe.4329:

I played pre-August 2008, where at some point people decided that until VoD there was no incentive to actually do anything other than wait for the VoD (sure people could possibly attempt to preemptively take out NPCs, but why, teams could just turtle their base and keep their NPCs up, easier to just try for the full wipe during when the VoD activated)

There was also flag running and getting the 10% morale boost during match. But yeah you can still do a VoD, just use dmg done to lord. The idea of forcing the lords to the middle was fun. You can still tally a sides decision based on – 1) lord death 2) Points

Agree I would rather see a vod mechanic with some sort of incentive not to camp…

The points system feels out of place.