Guild Wars 2

At best, it’s irritating to fight power-based rangers right now. At worse, it’s really rage-worthy.
Since the patch, PvP has been crawling with press-2-2-win yolo rangers, and face it, there’s not much you can do about those.
What’s the point of giving a 1500-range one shot? Yes you can dodge, evade, use an invuln, reflects, whatever you want, but in the end, with auto attacks hitting 2.5k, 3 cc’s, etangle, barrage and whatnot, all you can really do is disengage.
So I’m guessing the “ranger” topic has been pretty active this week, hence my question, WHEN will the nerf occur?

I’ve beaten them fairly consistently as a trapper ranger or as a BM ranger. The range isn’t a huge problem if you know how to play.

No one short of the glassiest of glass cannons can be one shot killed with a Rapid Fire, and even then the ranger would have to blow an elite skill and two utilities to maximize the burst. It’s very much a one trick pony, and after that one shot is done the ranger has only one extra utility for defense.

So to answer your question, they probably won’t end up nerfing a build that isn’t even viable for high end play right now.

eh bigger issue when those band wagon rangers are on your team and feed smart enemy

i don’t think it will be nerfed

i saw rangers just sitting on ledges and pew pew but never capture point even if it is open….

2 year long ranger player here: if you lose to a LB ranger you’re a kitten idiot or s/he is a better player than you.

Play DPS med guard, gg hard counter to LB rangers + thief while packing brilliant cleave for team fights + training out casters.

I fully agree that ranger isn’t viable in high end team play. But that’s not what annoys people.

What annoys people is the same problem with 100blades just after launch. It’s very simple to pull off, and even if you only get some of it off, it’s still a huge chunk of damage. But what makes Rapid Fire even worse is that rangers can do it from 1500 range; If you’re already engaged in a fight, you often don’t see it coming until the first few arrows land. Yes, thief can sneak up and burst too, but the downside for them is that they’re susceptible to melee cleave and AoE when using their burst. And with such a low cooldown with decent survival, they can get it off again from long range.

Basically, the effort and risk doesn’t balance with the reward when it does happen to land.

And because it’s not really played at high end, of course it’s fine there. But you can’t just balance at the top; you need to have reasonable balance at mid and low tiers of play.

A sniper ranger isn’t survivable, though. They have awful survival for a zerker burst set up.

A full burst sniper ranger has:
Zerker defensive stats.
Little to no condition removal.
No mobility on their burst weapon.
Only one spare utility slot for defense without taking a big hit to your burst damage.

Depending on the secondary weapon set that can also get:
Greatsword: One block, a stun/daze, and two evades that are extremely difficult to time correctly to actually dodge an attack.
Or
Sword/Dagger: Two evades and a cripple with good mobility, but an auto attack that roots you to the ground and some of the more quirky mobility skills available, which dramatically increases the difficulty level of the entire build.

Baseline the longbow ranger doesn’t have enough tools to disengage from anything but a necromancer or guardian and has only one defensive cooldown to blow. The longbow ranger’s survivability pales in comparison to a thief’s, which is why a thief has to get in melee to deal it’s burst. It’s designed to survive in melee and disengage before it can be counter attacked. A longbow ranger’s primary defense IS that range. A thief’s burst also happens all at once and from stealth, making it dramatically harder to avoid even if you do know the thief is in the area.

Now, a ranger can build to be more survivable, but will take a large loss to their offensive power to compensate. This set up is likely more powerful overall, but won’t be hitting for the big numbers people complain so much about.

As for the part about ease of play. I find it interesting, actually. Initially everyone was complaining about noob rangers beating experienced players because the build was so OP. But now all arguments seem to center on what happens when this build falls into the hands of an experienced player who knows what they are doing.

The fact is the burst might be easier to land, but surviving as a longbow ranger requires a great deal of skill in using your secondary set, whatever it is, as you’re automatically at a large disadvantage against your opponent as the ranger weapons weren’t designed for the burst and escape playstyle the thief was made for. If the enemy closes the distance you’re in for a tough time, whether you’re a new player or an old veteran.

The thing that makes this so deadly is the vulnerability and the knockback. Put the knockback on a longer cd so you can’t combo’them every 8 sec and remove the vulnerability stack and you go a long way to making this tolerable.

Just stay very aggressive with them, they are easy to kill.
Do not ignore them, give them no time to free-cast.

Pretty much anything with CCs ands immobilize is a direct counter to Rangers
Especially Thieves/Hambows

Hopefully never. They are already too easy to beat.

they’re a little frustrating for me (since the majority of my chars are glasscannons, and getting hit for 8k in 2 seconds from out-of-range is’nt fun)
but i dont think they need to be nerfed, they have counters.

the biggest counter is that they aren’t very effective up close, and in a game of “stand in this circle” which is what we have as pvp, they fail at standing in circles…

eh, don’t care about rangers. they only get dangerous if a thief, mesmer AND a pewpew focus you. then their random AI can distract you enough for thief and mesmer to kill you.

Honestly I think overall burst in general needs fine tuning. Fresh Air ele’s, Backstab Thieves, and Rapid Fire Rangers all need their bursts toned down. They may just be cheese builds that aren’t viable for tournament play but they ruin other aspects of PvP and turns away a lot of potential players.

10-20 minute tournie ques aren’t going to get any better if tournaments are all you balance. Lower and Middle tier needs some attention as well because these are your stepping stones into PvP to begin with as well as into tournaments.

Cheese builds that you see constantly being run in the lower tiers ruin those tiers and turn away many potential PvPers of higher end pvp.

TL;DR – You build a house at the foundation, not the roof. Less cheese, more balance for lower tiers = more players less queue times in higher tiers.

Chesire.9043:

Honestly I think overall burst in general needs fine tuning. Fresh Air ele’s, Backstab Thieves, and Rapid Fire Rangers all need their bursts toned down. They may just be cheese builds that aren’t viable for tournament play but they ruin other aspects of PvP and turns away a lot of potential players.

For the love of God, hell no…

I see too many “full bunker” teams… Granted, it is a way of playing, and I am fine with that, but I am not fine with reducing the burst, thus giving these teams a free ticket out of jail

Not just that, but burst classes no matter which one, requires input and coordination from your whole team – immobilize, stuns etc, all these things will ensure you land a burst, which means you have to take all these into mind when thinking about bursting someone down…

Also, with this in mind, glass classes have a strange position in the game already – they either rely on invulns or escapability to survive, means giving up the point – why would you even think about nerfing the only thing they are good for?

Chesire.9043:

Honestly I think overall burst in general needs fine tuning. Fresh Air ele’s, Backstab Thieves, and Rapid Fire Rangers all need their bursts toned down. They may just be cheese builds that aren’t viable for tournament play but they ruin other aspects of PvP and turns away a lot of potential players.

10-20 minute tournie ques aren’t going to get any better if tournaments are all you balance. Lower and Middle tier needs some attention as well because these are your stepping stones into PvP to begin with as well as into tournaments.

Cheese builds that you see constantly being run in the lower tiers ruin those tiers and turn away many potential PvPers of higher end pvp.

TL;DR – You build a house at the foundation, not the roof. Less cheese, more balance for lower tiers = more players less queue times in higher tiers.

Single target glassy builds….they deserve their bursts,their defenses are anti-conquest :“stealth,ranged burst,retreat if failef burst.”

Yeah I don’t think they need a nerf their are too many builds that can counter a squishy ranger. lol let them have there fun!

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Chesire.9043:

Honestly I think overall burst in general needs fine tuning. Fresh Air ele’s, Backstab Thieves, and Rapid Fire Rangers all need their bursts toned down. They may just be cheese builds that aren’t viable for tournament play but they ruin other aspects of PvP and turns away a lot of potential players.

For the love of God, hell no…

I see too many “full bunker” teams… Granted, it is a way of playing, and I am fine with that, but I am not fine with reducing the burst, thus giving these teams a free ticket out of jail

Not just that, but burst classes no matter which one, requires input and coordination from your whole team – immobilize, stuns etc, all these things will ensure you land a burst, which means you have to take all these into mind when thinking about bursting someone down…

Also, with this in mind, glass classes have a strange position in the game already – they either rely on invulns or escapability to survive, means giving up the point – why would you even think about nerfing the only thing they are good for?

I understand this, and in a tPvP I can see how it’s effective. But I’m talking more of lower tier PvP. Bunker builds are near pointless and glass builds require no team coordination and can have players at 25% HP before their target even realizes they’ve been engaged.

I’m sure it sounds kittened, but every day I see people griping about players queuing in tPvP with no idea of what they’re even suppose to do. Some of this is likely just someone seeing what the difference between tPvP and hotjoin is; but isn’t it also possible that they are players looking for a different style of small scale pvp where they aren’t instantly melted as soon as they step foot inside a circle?

I’m not saying nerf burst into the ground so that bunkers are the end all be all; that would be kittened. I’m just saying it that such high burst does leave an impact on potential pvp players just starting out. If it doesn’t turn them away from that aspect of the game it either makes them a worse player ( because they think that’s how they are suppose to play) or in rare cases makes them want to go the harder route and find ways to better themselves and their playstyle to both counter those builds and help an organized team.

TL;DR – I’m not saying all burst needs nerfing into the ground, but it does have a negative impact on pvp outside of tournaments. That’s just my average player, regular pvper, opinion. Nothing more.

Chesire.9043:

I understand this, and in a tPvP I can see how it’s effective. But I’m talking more of lower tier PvP. Bunker builds are near pointless and glass builds require no team coordination and can have players at 25% HP before their target even realizes they’ve been engaged.

I’m sure it sounds kittened, but every day I see people griping about players queuing in tPvP with no idea of what they’re even suppose to do. Some of this is likely just someone seeing what the difference between tPvP and hotjoin is; but isn’t it also possible that they are players looking for a different style of small scale pvp where they aren’t instantly melted as soon as they step foot inside a circle?

I’m not saying nerf burst into the ground so that bunkers are the end all be all; that would be kittened. I’m just saying it that such high burst does leave an impact on potential pvp players just starting out. If it doesn’t turn them away from that aspect of the game it either makes them a worse player ( because they think that’s how they are suppose to play) or in rare cases makes them want to go the harder route and find ways to better themselves and their playstyle to both counter those builds and help an organized team.

TL;DR – I’m not saying all burst needs nerfing into the ground, but it does have a negative impact on pvp outside of tournaments. That’s just my average player, regular pvper, opinion. Nothing more.

I can get the frustration as a new player when facing something like this, but realize one thing;
There is no such thing as “carrying” in this game, it is a team game…

You can be the best shatter mesmer, thief, or S/F ele all you want, but if your team decides to 4v1 a Turret Engineer on far and still lose, you will likely lose the match…

Can you kill people easier on a burst build? Maybe… But kills are not everything in this game, and most certainly not single targetted ones…
New people need to learn the risk they take taking a certain build which is more suspicable to burst, and need to learn to adapt to it – that is the way it is… This same can be said about everything; Heavy CC builds, Conditions, facing boon heavy builds etc. A new player cannot fight these nearly as well as an experienced player, but even he/she had to experience the pain of fighting these things at one point… it is called a learning curve, you need it for a game which relies on teamplay… Even shooters work roughly like this, believe it or not…

That much damage from that far and at that speed is the problem.

They can’t retain all of that

Chesire.9043:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Chesire.9043:

Honestly I think overall burst in general needs fine tuning. Fresh Air ele’s, Backstab Thieves, and Rapid Fire Rangers all need their bursts toned down. They may just be cheese builds that aren’t viable for tournament play but they ruin other aspects of PvP and turns away a lot of potential players.

For the love of God, hell no…

I see too many “full bunker” teams… Granted, it is a way of playing, and I am fine with that, but I am not fine with reducing the burst, thus giving these teams a free ticket out of jail

Not just that, but burst classes no matter which one, requires input and coordination from your whole team – immobilize, stuns etc, all these things will ensure you land a burst, which means you have to take all these into mind when thinking about bursting someone down…

Also, with this in mind, glass classes have a strange position in the game already – they either rely on invulns or escapability to survive, means giving up the point – why would you even think about nerfing the only thing they are good for?

I understand this, and in a tPvP I can see how it’s effective. But I’m talking more of lower tier PvP. Bunker builds are near pointless and glass builds require no team coordination and can have players at 25% HP before their target even realizes they’ve been engaged.

I’m sure it sounds kittened, but every day I see people griping about players queuing in tPvP with no idea of what they’re even suppose to do. Some of this is likely just someone seeing what the difference between tPvP and hotjoin is; but isn’t it also possible that they are players looking for a different style of small scale pvp where they aren’t instantly melted as soon as they step foot inside a circle?

I’m not saying nerf burst into the ground so that bunkers are the end all be all; that would be kittened. I’m just saying it that such high burst does leave an impact on potential pvp players just starting out. If it doesn’t turn them away from that aspect of the game it either makes them a worse player ( because they think that’s how they are suppose to play) or in rare cases makes them want to go the harder route and find ways to better themselves and their playstyle to both counter those builds and help an organized team.

TL;DR – I’m not saying all burst needs nerfing into the ground, but it does have a negative impact on pvp outside of tournaments. That’s just my average player, regular pvper, opinion. Nothing more.

If the target is at 25% health before it evens knows it is being targeted, then they are not ready for any form of PvP. One also needs to consider that not every gamer is a PvP natural, or will even make it in PvP. We potentially can all be president when we grow up, but most of us won’t be..you can’t lower the game skill floor to accommodate the lowest unskilled denominator. That only ensures high level play will never exist because no one ever gets better. The good get dumbed down and players who just can’t get their teeth cut in PvP get cotton wool wrapped and carried. WvW zergs and EoTm groups would better suit those players. They are being accommodated for, then they see glorious armour..get pulped trying to get it because they never developed ad come onto forums and complain that everyone is OP and the cycle continues.

T raw.4658:

That much damage from that far and at that speed is the problem.

They can’t retain all of that

That much damage from that far and at that speed with blocking, evading, immunity, reflecting, adsorbing is a problem. How?

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

T raw.4658:

That much damage from that far and at that speed is the problem.

They can’t retain all of that

That much damage from that far and at that speed with blocking, evading, immunity, reflecting, adsorbing is a problem. How?

Lol you saying that I wonder which counter is the most annoying to a burst ranger? I’d imagine it would be reflecting damage!

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

T raw.4658:

That much damage from that far and at that speed is the problem.

They can’t retain all of that

That much damage from that far and at that speed with blocking, evading, immunity, reflecting, adsorbing is a problem. How?

Its not a problem if you play a lame bunkerish build or a trollish profession like thieves or mesmers (thieves can easily evade, mesmers offer tons of alternative targets). But, if you play anything more offensive than that or even worse go full melee then you are in trouble because a single ranger will pick you off in a matter of 10s, no matter how much evades, blocks or reflects you use.

I main warrior and avoid the lame builds like hammer, condi etc. With 3700 toughness, a shield and Signet of Stamina I can’t possibly survive a ranger spamming from a safe 1200 distance. Warrior’s reflects are simply not enough like in the case of guardians or mesmers. Like that is not enough, they also got an insane low CD on PBS (Point Blank Shot) which can successfully KB enemies from 1200 range every 12-15s (+5% damage increase with “Eagle eye” on top of that).

I get it, rangers are exited that the current meta provides them with a way to make easy kills. But someone should really take a moment and rethink if giving so much reward for such a low level of risk is reasonable.

People are arguing that playing glass ranger isn’t some low risk high reward play style.

Most classes have some form of teleporting, those that don’t have leaps. The only class that should have trouble closing the distance on a ranger is a necro.

I know it may feel bad for a ranger (pretty much agreed to be a bottom tier class) to pew pew you to death. But is it really so hard to admit that the ranger out positioned you?

Fiorrello.8126:

But is it really so hard to admit that the ranger out positioned you?

What’s exactly to “position” in a conquest based game? Its not like an FFA mode where you can do 1vs1 all day long. Here you either cap the point or lose. Try to knock down a ranger on Temple which is standing in one of the torches on mid. If you play warrior you can only go all the way up the stairs and jump down on him from behind. Good luck with his low PBS CD and pew-pew mode.

So wait, you are upset when the ranger offers himself up on the giant torch like a human sacrifice.

Pretend the ranger is in a field vulnerable on all sides and for whatever reason immune to melee. If he dodges he will knock himself down. So now you know that while he is up there he won’t dodge.

Your team hopefully has ranged as well, he’s a glass cannon build sitting at a massively contested point and you can be sure that he probably won’t dodge and knock himself off.

I usually play a warrior so I just hit them with combustion shot and let the problem sort itself out.

They won’t be nerfed since they aren’t OP lol. I wish all hotjoiners would stop commenting about balance on the forums.

This topic skyrocketted since I posted it so I’ll just clarify my first statement real quick =)
I play as a s/d thief and I’m not quite a beginner anymore (not a pvp hero neither but still). My point is, if I want to engage a longbow ranger, even if i have steal, infiltrator’s strike and infiltrator’s signet as gap breakers, he will still have time to unload his whole rapid fire on me before I even get to him.
-Dodge it! -1 rapid fire is 2 dodges to dodge. After which he still has 1)Point blank shot 2)barrage 3) 2 pet CC’s 4) Etangle (That’s only if he camps longbow)

So no matter how many evades I have, he has more lame skills to unload on me. Someone said he had to sacrifice all his utilities to burst properly? I did some testing, 1 rapid fire with no buffs can hit up to 10k, and that’s not counting pet hits/air+fire sigil procs. Having burst is fine. Having ranged is fine. But having a 1500 range burst with 8 seconds cd is just ridiculous.

Saying that they have no survivability would be a lie as well: 2 invulns, gs block + kb, stun/daze… That’s more than most burst classes, and that’s not counting they can just stay at ranged and kill you safely while they’re out of reach for your own attacks.

I’ve done some testing on several classes, and there’s no way I can find a counter to them. In 90% of the cases they’ll just burst you before you even are able to attack them, and the 10% left is when you don’t have any dodges left because you double dodged thier rapid fire.

In a team fight it’s even worse: they just arrive randomly, burst anyone in 2 seconds and before you notice they’re there you’re dead already.

What I wanted to point out with this thread is that rapi fire is stupidly op, the range is too high, the damage is too high and the cd is too low.

I am so sick of people crying about rangers. Oh they are so OP, blah blah blah. NERF engi’s and their stupid bombs that toss you around like a rag doll or thiefs should not be able to stealth. Maybe we should just make all melee classes with no stealth, no fear, no bows, no pets, no healing just toons with a sword and shield and then I am sure people wouold cry about that too cause player X shield is bigger than player Y’s shield. I play a lot of tpvp and spvp and as a ranger, I get countered a lot. If I melee I am dead. I need to create distance and use those skills to counter others. If people really hate rangers that much, go play against a 5 man engi team and then lets see who crys about them getting nerfed. If people really hate rangers then go play wow and whine and cry and they will nerf it for you and then ANY 9 year old can faceplant the keyboard and win. Or just go zerg in wvw where there really is little skill involved or better yet just go fight Karka queen.

QQing about ranger or any class who can do burst damage like ele or thief is a BIG L2P issue. why not get better? learn when to fight or disengage? how bout counters? i actually QQ when i see rangers in my team coz i find them useless in a conquest mode. rangers are in the same league as thief in my oppinion. they both cant kill bunkers without wasting so much time, or they cant even hold a point for it to tick more points before dying.

They are fine. If you get shot in the back that means your awareness is not high enough.
Also, good players learn to adapt. When I Yolo queue in team queue, guardians that duo or are in less-than-5 premades often bring the spirit shield or reflect if he sees rangers. The axebow warrior traits reflect. Mesmers use daze mantra. Thieves just steal.
Rangers specced like this can’t stand on a point, and you can LoS a lot of the time. They are also very vulnerable to conditions and eating their own reflected quickness rapid fire or any sort of spike. They have obvious CDs that you can watch out for. Don’t dodge randomly, save your CDs and dodges for their burst then counter pressure.

They are very much like SF eles and Carrion wells Necros in that they are designed to ledge in teamfights. If they get targeted by two or more they have very little ways to disengage and can be safe stomped easily. If you can’t get them and get shot at 1500 range, that’s half the rangers survivability, in positioning. Develop new strategies, don’t get mad. Anet doesn’t make changes overnight. I also don’t think this was a bad change for the game. I actually think it’s better to have a less condi and bunker oriented game.

You guys should see the ToL2 3rd place match Enhanced Gaming vs 55 Hp Monks. The latter ran double SF ele with frost bow and a signet might stack Pistol Whip thief. Was a blast to watch.

I think the best answer is for you to go ranged rather than melee. As pointed out in this thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/What-happened-to-melee/first#post4430471

Melee is still good for PvE, but ranged has definitely become the new meta for PvP. The two winning teams of the Tournament of Legends 2 used only roaming ranged professions with the exception of hambow Warriors. The Warrior hammer skills are still the ultimate in crowd control but that is probably the last useful melee weapon in the current PvP meta.

Just fight fire with fire, unless you are a Guardian in which case just re-roll.

Thanks.

I did a few soloq’s as a ranger just to make sure I didn’t write nonsense, and ended up winning several 2v1’s, including against 2 hambows, and I had no experience in ranger pvp whatsoever. To me that is the ultimate proof that rangers are stupidly easy to play and have way too much damage for the ammount of effort you have to give.

Androlan – if you die when you melee you’re doing something wrong because GS is just ridiculously op in terms of defense… You can tank anything with GS and 1 trait point in nature magic..

Kurse.1540:

I did a few soloq’s as a ranger just to make sure I didn’t write nonsense, and ended up winning several 2v1’s, including against 2 hambows, and I had no experience in ranger pvp whatsoever. To me that is the ultimate proof that rangers are stupidly easy to play and have way too much damage for the ammount of effort you have to give.

Androlan – if you die when you melee you’re doing something wrong because GS is just ridiculously op in terms of defense… You can tank anything with GS and 1 trait point in nature magic..

I 2v1’d people on skullcrack warrior…

Geez, Skullcrack so OP, plz nerf…

Ehecatl.9172:

I’ve beaten them fairly consistently as a trapper ranger or as a BM ranger. The range isn’t a huge problem if you know how to play.

No one short of the glassiest of glass cannons can be one shot killed with a Rapid Fire, and even then the ranger would have to blow an elite skill and two utilities to maximize the burst. It’s very much a one trick pony, and after that one shot is done the ranger has only one extra utility for defense.

So to answer your question, they probably won’t end up nerfing a build that isn’t even viable for high end play right now.

There is a BM ranger?

Kurse.1540:

I did a few soloq’s as a ranger just to make sure I didn’t write nonsense, and ended up winning several 2v1’s, including against 2 hambows, and I had no experience in ranger pvp whatsoever. To me that is the ultimate proof that rangers are stupidly easy to play and have way too much damage for the ammount of effort you have to give.

Androlan – if you die when you melee you’re doing something wrong because GS is just ridiculously op in terms of defense… You can tank anything with GS and 1 trait point in nature magic..

I would agree with you on using GS but prefer to use horn since I can buff my party. Granted I am far from the best ranger, but I see LB ranger as purely support class in spvp or tpvp. We sneak and peek, back shot and disrupt attacks and add offensive support in taking a point. Nothing worse than a hard fought point then to die to a cheap shot from behind (and I know from playing a guardian!) but it’s about winning. I want to be able to drop in on a contested point and disrupt and cause havoc and run. I think the ranger changes are good and don’t want them to change even if I am playing my guardian. Yea I hate them when they snipe me from afar but that’s just making me have much more situational awareness

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Kurse.1540:

I did a few soloq’s as a ranger just to make sure I didn’t write nonsense, and ended up winning several 2v1’s, including against 2 hambows, and I had no experience in ranger pvp whatsoever. To me that is the ultimate proof that rangers are stupidly easy to play and have way too much damage for the ammount of effort you have to give.

Androlan – if you die when you melee you’re doing something wrong because GS is just ridiculously op in terms of defense… You can tank anything with GS and 1 trait point in nature magic..

I 2v1’d people on skullcrack warrior…

Geez, Skullcrack so OP, plz nerf…

Yeah if you never played warrior before and you are able to 2v1 with skullcrack then it probably needs a rework of some sort… 4s stun IS op tho, but at least it requires skill to play, not like lb ranger…

- condi bomb them
- LoS
- reflect
- use one of the million gap closers available in the game

= profit!

Stop crying people.

Kurse.1540:

I did a few soloq’s as a ranger just to make sure I didn’t write nonsense, and ended up winning several 2v1’s, including against 2 hambows, and I had no experience in ranger pvp whatsoever. To me that is the ultimate proof that rangers are stupidly easy to play and have way too much damage for the ammount of effort you have to give.

Even without any prior experience you appear to have stumbled upon the formula for PvP as a Ranger.

Shoot bow… Send in pet… Repeat… Profit!!

If you can find a raised area where it is difficult or convoluted to get to you, then so much the better.

Easy peasy.

Thanks.

The same old battle between new players and veteran players on new changes. “Nerf!! Nooo Nerf!!”

Its really just up to Arena’s strategy to support of either side as both side of comments are valid and sounds true.

My take? Just segregate new and veteran players away in hotjoin, and solve this whole argument.

Yawnnnnn

If you nerf rapid fire then you also need to nerf frost bow and mesmer gs AA at the same time for the same reason.

Ranged attack with high burst, just target the ranger and have him killed in 1 second, move on. There’s no problem here.

Kurse.1540:

This topic skyrocketted since I posted it so I’ll just clarify my first statement real quick =)
I play as a s/d thief and I’m not quite a beginner anymore (not a pvp hero neither but still). My point is, if I want to engage a longbow ranger, even if i have steal, infiltrator’s strike and infiltrator’s signet as gap breakers, he will still have time to unload his whole rapid fire on me before I even get to him.
-Dodge it! -1 rapid fire is 2 dodges to dodge. After which he still has 1)Point blank shot 2)barrage 3) 2 pet CC’s 4) Etangle (That’s only if he camps longbow)

So no matter how many evades I have, he has more lame skills to unload on me. Someone said he had to sacrifice all his utilities to burst properly? I did some testing, 1 rapid fire with no buffs can hit up to 10k, and that’s not counting pet hits/air+fire sigil procs. Having burst is fine. Having ranged is fine. But having a 1500 range burst with 8 seconds cd is just ridiculous.

Saying that they have no survivability would be a lie as well: 2 invulns, gs block + kb, stun/daze… That’s more than most burst classes, and that’s not counting they can just stay at ranged and kill you safely while they’re out of reach for your own attacks.

I’ve done some testing on several classes, and there’s no way I can find a counter to them. In 90% of the cases they’ll just burst you before you even are able to attack them, and the 10% left is when you don’t have any dodges left because you double dodged thier rapid fire.

In a team fight it’s even worse: they just arrive randomly, burst anyone in 2 seconds and before you notice they’re there you’re dead already.

What I wanted to point out with this thread is that rapi fire is stupidly op, the range is too high, the damage is too high and the cd is too low.

You must be a complete n oob. I know that might hurt, but it is the only explanation I can think of for your opinion.

Longbow burst ranger is definitely not the most powerful class/build in the game, and not even the strongest ranger build. Once you get better at s/d thief you should be able to beat a lot of any type of ranger 1vs1, although there will likely always be someone better than you.

cassius.5809:

If you nerf rapid fire then you also need to nerf frost bow and mesmer gs AA at the same time for the same reason.

Ranged attack with high burst, just target the ranger and have him killed in 1 second, move on. There’s no problem here.

Mesmer greatsword AA has like the lowest AA in game -.-
As for frost bow, it’s definitely op but it sacrifices an utility skill, deep freeze has a huge cooldown and is very telegraphed and takes only 1 dodge to negate it. So I’m fine with frost bow.

OP, to answer your question:

6 months from now they will be neerfed and the nerf will be something seemingly confusing and nonsensical like pet health.

Kurse.1540:

cassius.5809:

If you nerf rapid fire then you also need to nerf frost bow and mesmer gs AA at the same time for the same reason.

Ranged attack with high burst, just target the ranger and have him killed in 1 second, move on. There’s no problem here.

Mesmer greatsword AA has like the lowest AA in game -.-

yet it hits almost as hard as Long Range Shot due to its design, but i am no mesmer player, so i guess even the GS damage is an illusion.

Prysin.8542:

Kurse.1540:

cassius.5809:

If you nerf rapid fire then you also need to nerf frost bow and mesmer gs AA at the same time for the same reason.

Ranged attack with high burst, just target the ranger and have him killed in 1 second, move on. There’s no problem here.

Mesmer greatsword AA has like the lowest AA in game -.-

yet it hits almost as hard as Long Range Shot due to its design, but i am no mesmer player, so i guess even the GS damage is an illusion.

It hits like 500 after a 1s+ channel, it’s really not the auto attack that hits hard

Yasha.5963:

Kurse.1540:

This topic skyrocketted since I posted it so I’ll just clarify my first statement real quick =)
I play as a s/d thief and I’m not quite a beginner anymore (not a pvp hero neither but still). My point is, if I want to engage a longbow ranger, even if i have steal, infiltrator’s strike and infiltrator’s signet as gap breakers, he will still have time to unload his whole rapid fire on me before I even get to him.
-Dodge it! -1 rapid fire is 2 dodges to dodge. After which he still has 1)Point blank shot 2)barrage 3) 2 pet CC’s 4) Etangle (That’s only if he camps longbow)

So no matter how many evades I have, he has more lame skills to unload on me. Someone said he had to sacrifice all his utilities to burst properly? I did some testing, 1 rapid fire with no buffs can hit up to 10k, and that’s not counting pet hits/air+fire sigil procs. Having burst is fine. Having ranged is fine. But having a 1500 range burst with 8 seconds cd is just ridiculous.

Saying that they have no survivability would be a lie as well: 2 invulns, gs block + kb, stun/daze… That’s more than most burst classes, and that’s not counting they can just stay at ranged and kill you safely while they’re out of reach for your own attacks.

I’ve done some testing on several classes, and there’s no way I can find a counter to them. In 90% of the cases they’ll just burst you before you even are able to attack them, and the 10% left is when you don’t have any dodges left because you double dodged thier rapid fire.

In a team fight it’s even worse: they just arrive randomly, burst anyone in 2 seconds and before you notice they’re there you’re dead already.

What I wanted to point out with this thread is that rapi fire is stupidly op, the range is too high, the damage is too high and the cd is too low.

You must be a complete n oob. I know that might hurt, but it is the only explanation I can think of for your opinion.

Longbow burst ranger is definitely not the most powerful class/build in the game, and not even the strongest ranger build. Once you get better at s/d thief you should be able to beat a lot of any type of ranger 1vs1, although there will likely always be someone better than you.

I never said I was unable to kill them or that they had the most op build in the game, what I said is the damage output they can have by just pressing 2 from the other side of the map is highly unbalanced. I really should have expected rangers to defend their pew pew when making this post, I guess I’ll just give up.

Well they aren’t OP, so hopefully not anytime soon.

Kurse.1540:

Prysin.8542:

Kurse.1540:

cassius.5809:

If you nerf rapid fire then you also need to nerf frost bow and mesmer gs AA at the same time for the same reason.

Ranged attack with high burst, just target the ranger and have him killed in 1 second, move on. There’s no problem here.

Mesmer greatsword AA has like the lowest AA in game -.-

yet it hits almost as hard as Long Range Shot due to its design, but i am no mesmer player, so i guess even the GS damage is an illusion.

It hits like 500 after a 1s+ channel, it’s really not the auto attack that hits hard

Damage (3x): Damage if range is greater than 900: 348 (0.945)?

Is that not accurate? Cause that’s more damage than LRS, but at a longer cast time thus why LB has higher DPS.

Atherakhia.4086:

Kurse.1540:

Prysin.8542:

Kurse.1540:

cassius.5809:

If you nerf rapid fire then you also need to nerf frost bow and mesmer gs AA at the same time for the same reason.

Ranged attack with high burst, just target the ranger and have him killed in 1 second, move on. There’s no problem here.

Mesmer greatsword AA has like the lowest AA in game -.-

yet it hits almost as hard as Long Range Shot due to its design, but i am no mesmer player, so i guess even the GS damage is an illusion.

It hits like 500 after a 1s+ channel, it’s really not the auto attack that hits hard

Damage (3x): Damage if range is greater than 900: 348 (0.945)?

Is that not accurate? Cause that’s more damage than LRS, but at a longer cast time thus why LB has higher DPS.

actually, not that longer.

LB AA cast + animation is 1 second.
Mesmer GS is pure cast – 1.5 seconds

In addition to this, mesmer GS pierces by default. So yes, it is more powerful, even in its basic form.