Guild Wars 2

Dear Devs

Let’s be serious, despite all this talk of esport, new game modes, “shaking meta” patches, elite specializations, new weapons for each class…the question still remains…where is this build diversity?

Some professions have been stuck with the same role since BWE1, take *ele*for example forced into this bunkerbot role since 2012, despite all the promises of buffs to underused skills/utilities , here we are it’s 2015 and eles still play as bunkerbot.

Do you realize that some utilities have never seen the light of the day in PvP?….conjure-glyphs-signets

Ele still can’t play a burst role in pvp/wvw after 4 years

I wonder if anybody here still remember what the devs said to the concerned GW1 community prior to the first BWE.

The GW1 community was concerned about the build diversity that GW2 would have developed with such a narrow number of skills

The devs replied back saying something across these lines ::" It’s faster and easier to balance the game when there is a smaller number of variables, it’s easier to identity what is over performing and what requires some help"

Well…in the end it didn’t really work out that way, did it?

In reality the balance in GW2 revolves around this overbearing and self-centered community

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

Does anybody remember : divinity runes, ogre runes, pirate runes, strength runes, turret engi, double arcane ele ect ect?

….ofc not, nobody but the devs remember all of this, which is now part of the forgotten pile of trash on top of which, rune of durability will soon be added

And when that happens, this sorry excuse of a community will hail you as heroes once again ..at least till the next “balance patch” when you will add yet another rune set and the cycle will repeat itself

Now my question is: when will you devs start balancing the game for real?

It has been 4 years now, the pile of trash has now become a mountain…

Promised build diversity has gone to raids, well more or less.

“Ele still can’t play a burst role in pvp/wvw after 4 years”
Fresh air / straight to the heart anyone? That was your PvP burst role. It was actually pretty strong, but D/D cele ele was its hard counter.

Burst classes have no real role in WvW (Outside of roaming, which I’d argue condi roamers were actually better), only in 15 man GvG. And ele doesn’t fit that role, because stealth is very important for gank.

Stealth on an ele? That would be disgusting.

Otherwise, zerker staff ele has been the WvW thing since, ever? Yeah, I think ever.
Meteor shower kittening destroys noobs.

“turret engi” was a mindless build that deserved the nerf it got.
Just because we have new and improved mindless builds 2.0, doesn’t magically mean turret engi wasn’t a skill-less over-rewarding build.

And man, you have to love the negativity that emanates from everyone on this forum 24/7.

balance isn’t an easy straight forward topic, and you guys genuinely don’t agree with each other on what should happen, or whether a change was even beneficial or not

how stupid (naïve perhaps?) are you.

I mean really.

do you really think gw2 devs will give us this?
and do you really think the pvp community will ever do anything but copy meta battle and QQ?

why do you have faith?
the devs and community play it by script every time. I mean gosh, look at the QQ posts we’ve been getting lately. people trying to demand pips back in threads, like for kitten . the community follows the Zeitgeist and QQs about how they follow it.

oh, I should add that post HoT I know very few people (people I know on TS) that actually play meta. everyone I know plays meta variations, or things we cooked up and tested in 1v1 arenas. I for one play no meta builds currently (I used to, I mean cele rifle homes) but not post HoT. it’s quite easy to make something strong with an elite spec.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/What-if-3/first#post5873677

What about it?
Right by now its the best whay to have a dps spec with the less effort possibile from arenanet.

Nah, it isn’t just fresh air that doesn’t work anymore, its practically every burst build. Warriors and thieves are the most vocal because they’re incapable of building a worthwhile build that isn’t centered around burst. That being said, I still understand your sentiment. Balance, for the most part, is there or at least it is in my opinion. What needs to change is the game mode. Then you’ll see much less emphasis on bunkers and burst builds will come finally get to see the light of day.

Also, as choov said, there are plenty of ways (plenty being relative, kek) to create a viable (viable being relative to your skill tier) build for sPvP.

Honestly, if Anet devs actually played their game to its fullest, they’d understand, better than any rager on the forums, what the game truly needs in terms of balance. I suppose its only right to assume that they listen to the vocal minority who constantly leave their droppings all across the forums since its obvious they don’t actually know how their game works. Oh well.

The community can’t even agree on what should change overall let alone specific classes, it’s a dev nightmare trying to figure it out IMO.

Valkyriez.6578:

The community can’t even agree on what should change overall let alone specific classes, it’s a dev job trying to figure it out IMO.

There, fixed it for you.

Build diversity disappeared when ANET forced you to NOT be able to choose an adept to put in the master slot or a master trait into the GM slot. And of course by locking you into only 3 trait lines.

Glenstorm.4059:

If bunkers disappeared tomorrow, burst Eles would still be kept out of the meta by Mesmers and Thieves, no?

Mesmers surely will be more usefull with portal, and thief will always have a superior mobility. But even in marauder amulet, taking tenpest means you can aura healing for a good amount. It can be worth or not to have a tempest in team, who know.
Who know if bunker will disappear, if thief or shatter mesemer will still be in meta with all those viper revenant around

lucadiro.4519:

Glenstorm.4059:

If bunkers disappeared tomorrow, burst Eles would still be kept out of the meta by Mesmers and Thieves, no?

Mesmers surely will be more usefull with portal, and thief will always have a superior mobility. But even in marauder amulet, taking tenpest means you can aura healing for a good amount. It can be worth or not to have a tempest in team, who know.
Who know if bunker will disappear, if thief or shatter mesemer will still be in meta with all those viper revenant around

Can’t speak for thief.

But as a shatter mesmer once you’ve forced a rev off shiro(into mallyx), they’re done.

Frankly, it’s the glint/shiro builds that I’m more worried about.

And reapers.
Reapers aren’t unbeatable by any means, but they’re not my most comfortable match up.

Hilariously, Druids are my most comfortable match up.

A bad balance team.

That sums up all the things in this thread.

The main pvp devs left anet didn’t they? It’s really noticeable. Time to find a new MMO boyz.

Chip Skylark.2367:

The main pvp devs left anet didn’t they? It’s really noticeable. Time to find a new MMO boyz.

Good luck. Unless you like typical Korean MMORPGs or what they’ve done with Elder Scrolls Online, you’re kind of screwed.

Which, all in all ESO is kind of fun now a days, since they fixed a lot of the problems they had at launch. Been playing it off and on.

Chip Skylark.2367:

The main pvp devs left anet didn’t they? It’s really NOT noticeable.

Fixed. Sadly it’s not much of a loss. Remember the ‘main dev’ also brought the worst metas. Dhuumfire, hambow and the immobilize buff, all painful.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Chip Skylark.2367:

The main pvp devs left anet didn’t they? It’s really noticeable. Time to find a new MMO boyz.

Good luck. Unless you like typical Korean MMORPGs or what they’ve done with Elder Scrolls Online, you’re kind of screwed.

Which, all in all ESO is kind of fun now a days, since they fixed a lot of the problems they had at launch. Been playing it off and on.

B&S doesn’t look too horrible I guess.

Waiting for Black Dez mainly, looks awesome.

Chip Skylark.2367:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Chip Skylark.2367:

The main pvp devs left anet didn’t they? It’s really noticeable. Time to find a new MMO boyz.

Good luck. Unless you like typical Korean MMORPGs or what they’ve done with Elder Scrolls Online, you’re kind of screwed.

Which, all in all ESO is kind of fun now a days, since they fixed a lot of the problems they had at launch. Been playing it off and on.

B&S doesn’t look too horrible I guess.

Waiting for Black Dez mainly, looks awesome.

B&S looks horrible. The grind, the combat, everything.
It’s a typical Korean MMORPG, made by NCSoft no less.

If you’ve lost faith in ANet, I have no clue why you’d have any faith in the guys over them.
Clearly you’d think upper management would be incompetent as well. But maybe I’m weird.

Black Desert…
I don’t feel like repeating myself, but I will.

it’s a typical korean mmorpg

I would get about as hyped for it as I did for ArcheAge, such as to say, not at all.

It’s always odd seeing people get hyped about models that never work out in America.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Chip Skylark.2367:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Chip Skylark.2367:

The main pvp devs left anet didn’t they? It’s really noticeable. Time to find a new MMO boyz.

Good luck. Unless you like typical Korean MMORPGs or what they’ve done with Elder Scrolls Online, you’re kind of screwed.

Which, all in all ESO is kind of fun now a days, since they fixed a lot of the problems they had at launch. Been playing it off and on.

B&S doesn’t look too horrible I guess.

Waiting for Black Dez mainly, looks awesome.

B&S looks horrible. The grind, the combat, everything.
It’s a typical Korean MMORPG, made by NCSoft no less.

If you’ve lost faith in ANet, I have no clue why you’d have any faith in the guys over them.
Clearly you’d think upper management would be incompetent as well. But maybe I’m weird.

Black Desert…
I don’t feel like repeating myself, but I will.

it’s a typical korean mmorpg

I would get about as hyped for it as I did for ArcheAge, such as to say, not at all.

It’s always odd seeing people get hyped about models that never work out in America.

I had high hopes for HoT PvP. It all comes down to the next major balance patch for me. We shouldn’t be forced to choose from 3 or 4 (Elite no less) specs to be viable.

Not to mention I was expecting mountains of new PvP content. Instead what did we get? Strongholds. And that’s it. 1 Lousy new map with boring gameplay and an assortment of broken or lazily designed elite specs (like Dragonhunter).

The combat system in Gw2 will likely still be #1, but that can only carry them so far…

the problem is also ours. I see a lot of players for example taking a metabattle build and play it bad …. perhaps you can try to change and create something that fit better your playstile. I go usually solo and i am going better since i stopped playing scrapper and playing a different build which fits better my playstile . There are some builds great for some rules but not for anything for example . People sits on a famous build and don’t try anything esle

I have to agree, they told us we would have a better game after they took away build diversity. In fact it is much worse, cookie cutter builds for everyone. I also have moved on, i still read the forums hopping they will at least mix and match within a tree. But nope, they are a stubborn bunch, and i got tired of waiting. They have a decent game, its the management that sucks and makes horrible decisions. Eso is refreshing, i also look forward to playing Camalot Unchained, Star Citizen, Crowfall, Battlecry and more coming soon in 2016. The future of mmo’s looks promising!

eureeka.5368:

I have to agree, they told us we would have a better game after they took away build diversity. In fact it is much worse, cookie cutter builds for everyone. I also have moved on, i still read the forums hopping they will at least mix and match within a tree. But nope, they are a stubborn bunch, and i got tired of waiting. They have a decent game, its the management that sucks and makes horrible decisions. Eso is refreshing, i also look forward to playing Camalot Unchained, Star Citizen, Crowfall, Battlecry and more coming soon in 2016. The future of mmo’s looks promising!

Shh you can’t mention such things. Don’t you know that our evil overlords only have time to remove forums for post about other games or star wars : O

The reason why it’s gotten worse is because the elite specialization are so good that there’s no reason not to take them, therefore limiting build diversity as a whole. Sure their strategy might have sold a few copies because the hyped expansion, but if they don’t tone down the elite specs back in line with everything else, then the game will become just as stale and stagnant as last week’s na pro league competition.

Countless

You know, before the June patch, the best you could do was a 6-6-2 split across your traitlines. Yes, some builds went across more, but you could only “max out” 2 traitlines.

I always wondered why they let us max out 3 traitlines with that patch. Wouldn’t more diversity be obtainable, if you only could do the 6-6 split(2 trait lines). I understand that they were planning on more and more new “elite” trait lines being added. But spreading traits over 1 elite and 2 base traits sure “homogenizes” your builds. By going to just 2 trait lines, your build now surely become more “1” dimensional and diversity is more likely.

I think this would also, help minimize the impact that “Elite” specs have over the base professions.

Just thinking out loud.

There are many possible builds for any given class actually, in a way build diversity is there in the background.
It’s just they get utterly facerolled by the current fot(6)m, so much that it’s basically a question of what hardcounters what, individually and team wise.

So yea, letting hardcounters be a thing is the worst offender toward diversity imho.
And this trend started way before HoT.

muscarine.5136:

So yea, letting hardcounters be a thing is the worst offender toward diversity imho.
And this trend started way before HoT.

Hardcounters don’t limit diversity, hardcounters are a product of diversity.

By giving us the players so many build choices they give us the ability to create builds that specifically play on another build’s weaknesses. The only way they could possibly stop that would be to severely cut down on our ability to customize builds.

Spartacus.3192:

Build diversity disappeared when ANET forced you to NOT be able to choose an adept to put in the master slot or a master trait into the GM slot. And of course by locking you into only 3 trait lines.

QFT. R.I.P. my zombieneer build:/

Replacing the old trait system that used points and distributed stats with the communist version we have now destroyed diversity.

Back then you could run unique yet effective builds on ele, engie, ranger…..

Build diversity is dead because players want only wins. They are willing to follow like lemmings anyone who promises easy rewards. It’s a deeply disturbing trend.

I get flamed if I’m not running the “meta” build. Which is to say if I’m not doing what the “pros” do, what the internet groupies say is optimal.

It’s as if people have created a new ethic in which taking advantage of the system is the ultimate virtue.

Taking one’s own path in such an environment is seen as anti social since it might not contribute to the group ( pug or guild ) gaining more.

ANET has encouraged this by pouring money into “pro leagues” and making shallower and shallower content with higher and higher rewards.

In D&D we called it a “monty hall” campaign. This will lead to a vicious spiral of needing to stoke the fire with ever more spectacular rewards.

At this point the solution would be to propagandize by having the “pros” play oddball builds.

Of course.. the real long term solution would be to make multiple builds for each class that work well. I’m not confident that ANET can accomplish that.

the problem with ele is not the fact that they cant go with burst build (100-0 in 1 sec if used right). the real problem is the fact that they can cleanse and heal party thus the party needs them to heal and cleanse so they go sustain.
if other party class can heal and cleanse the same or better you might see more zerker builds.
for example bunker mesmer – build diversity you say. so ppl QQ. thus you still see sustain/suport ele.
ele went with celestial with burning so dmg diversity but ppl QQ .

so if you give 1 class some kind of diversity it hurts the other classes as well. also buffing other for more blocks and sustain hurst the zerker meta . more condi cleasne, resistance or immunity hurts the condi class

so we left with bunker sustain meta

you saw the effect of condi short meta. so many QQ without rethinking lets go with more cleasne and counter ….

There is build diversity.

1. Bunker Mesmer
2. Bunker Ele
3. Viper Rev
4. Marauder Engi

You have a WHOLE FOUR CHOICES!!! See! Diversity!

Here are my thoughts with respect to sPvP:

Ele needs a serious buff to scepter (for every attunement besides air), as well as a serious nerf to focus and diamond skin. The only ele build I see these days in sPvP is d/f diamond skin tempest along with the occasional diamond skin staff tempest.

Adaptive armor has already been nerfed for scrapper, but it is still a bit too strong… As is hammer, sneak gyro, and even slick shoes. Hence all the scrappers running the marauder or cele scrapper build. Engi might actually be the best vanilla spec, but it is still very lacking compared to scrapper.

The only profession that offers some build diversity these days is necro, and even in that case, signet builds are easily the most common build I see. From my experience, approx. one out of every two necros uses a signet build, since it offers everything one could want in a necro without sacrificing anything (boon corruption, might stacking, condi transfers, movement speed, sustain, condi spamming, team support, i could probably go on but you get the idea). However, you don’t need to run cele signet to be successful at necro, since MM, terrormancer, carrion frostfire, wellomancer and condi reaper are all viable as well. If more professions were as balanced as necro, there would still be a meta, but I’d see other builds as well.

Next we have bunker mes (bunker chrono to be exact). Even with the recent nerfs, this build is still too strong. Instead of nerfing chronomancer weapon and utility skills, Anet needs to deal with the source of the problem: the inspiration spec. Medic’s feedback, restorative illusions and illusionary inspiration are all too strong in teamfights; even the minors need to be tuned down. If they continue to simply nerf the mesmer weapon and utility skills, Anet will make every other mes/chrono build obsolete before they are able to correct this one, over-powered build. Since the recent nerfs, I see fewer mesmers overall, but less diversity in this profession.

For revenant, the condi mallyx (mace/axe, viper) herald build is definitely the norm, although there may be some diversity in terms of the other weapon set and/or 3rd specialization (sword/shield, staff). I don’t see any hammer revs anymore, so maybe hammer could use a little boost?

For ranger, all I see are staff druids with bristleback pets and, sometimes, smokescales. Similar to rev, though, I guess there is some build diversity in terms of the other weapon set, as I’ve seen power lb and condi survival builds. Trap ranger seems to be pretty dead as of late.

Finally marauder trapper DH with lb is mostly all I see for guardian, with slight variations on the second weapon set, but little to no variation on the specializations (DH, virtues, valor). I will say that I think there are some other viable DH builds out there that people haven’t experimented with yet (melee trap, carrion burn), although I’m not sure how successful they will ultimately be.

I can’t really comment on thief or warrior, other than saying that I don’t see very many these days.

Clearly, Anet has their work cut out for them. I don’t think it’s a problem to have certain builds or professions that are stronger or weaker in some situations, but every build needs to have a possible counter, and most of these builds are meta because they are extremely strong and can’t be countered, except occasionally by another meta build.

With all the available skills, weapons and amulets in the game, I’d like to see more than these 7 builds on a regular basis.

(edited typos)

Every profession should have 3 builds including tank, dps and condition damage. And they should be working pretty well. Why? Because there are some professions that can do three of them, and there are some can not even properly do one of them.

Problem is that this game has no idea about heavy-medium-light armor difference. Tempest being the tank? Why the heck? Guardian is dps? What the actual kitten is revenant? Father of all?

Because that all the roles have been randomly given to many professions, there is no balance. Class x can play tank, condi and dps. Class y can not do even one. Class z has no condition build available.

With this system, there will not be any balance in the game. Either give all professions 3 build possibility with different variations, or limit all of them to two at least. And fix the kitten bugs. Then maybe if we be good kids we can see the smurfs.

No Walking.6349:

There is build diversity.

1. Bunker Mesmer
2. Bunker Ele
3. Viper Rev
4. Marauder Engi

You have a WHOLE FOUR CHOICES!!! See! Diversity!

As you see from my above post, there are actually about 7 builds which I see on a regular basis. But I agree that these four are the real problem (and they are all elite specs). Hmm coincidence?

Pimsley.3681:

Replacing the old trait system that used points and distributed stats with the communist version we have now destroyed diversity.

Back then you could run unique yet effective builds on ele, engie, ranger…..

I disagree with that statement; prior to HoT, there were a number of effective builds out there for each profession. I think the June 2015 patch that streamlined traits was a good thing, but I think that the elite specs destroyed all the hard work that went into the previous major update.

Ithilwen.1529:

Of course.. the real long term solution would be to make multiple builds for each class that work well. I’m not confident that ANET can accomplish that.

Problem is, a majority of the builds one can cook up on their class ARE viable and ARE powerful, just not in a conquest setting.

People seriously need to stop advocating for trait tweaks (although some specs do need some toning down) and need to start crafting game modes that don’t simply reward sitting on point all day doing nothing.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Ithilwen.1529:

Of course.. the real long term solution would be to make multiple builds for each class that work well. I’m not confident that ANET can accomplish that.

Problem is, a majority of the builds one can cook up on their class ARE viable and ARE powerful, just not in a conquest setting.

People seriously need to stop advocating for trait tweaks (although some specs do need some toning down) and need to start crafting game modes that don’t simply reward sitting on point all day doing nothing.

I think a map like Voidstar (NPC free, needs channeling at your door to progress, lots of area diversity, bridges, and offensive and defensive tactics to keep your enemy from charging while maximizing your chances to charge) would be great. Carry the flag would also be good, but that would promote bunkers even more since you’d have a bunker carrying the flag. Meta for flag carrying would be soldier’s on the class with the most stability. Also mesmer porting automatically drops the flag to avoid cheesing.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Ithilwen.1529:

Of course.. the real long term solution would be to make multiple builds for each class that work well. I’m not confident that ANET can accomplish that.

Problem is, a majority of the builds one can cook up on their class ARE viable and ARE powerful, just not in a conquest setting.

People seriously need to stop advocating for trait tweaks (although some specs do need some toning down) and need to start crafting game modes that don’t simply reward sitting on point all day doing nothing.

The problem with that solution is that it punishes builds that win fights, but cannot chase down targets that can stealth and/or disengage. sPvP is supposed to be the most balanced game mode, where armor and weapon strength is equal and everyone has access to the same skills, stats and traits. I’d like to see more game modes as well, but I think the priority for Anet right now should be fixing and balancing sPvP.

hotcarl.8621:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Ithilwen.1529:

Of course.. the real long term solution would be to make multiple builds for each class that work well. I’m not confident that ANET can accomplish that.

Problem is, a majority of the builds one can cook up on their class ARE viable and ARE powerful, just not in a conquest setting.

People seriously need to stop advocating for trait tweaks (although some specs do need some toning down) and need to start crafting game modes that don’t simply reward sitting on point all day doing nothing.

The problem with that solution is that it punishes builds that win fights, but cannot chase down targets that can stealth and/or disengage. sPvP is supposed to be the most balanced game mode, where armor and weapon strength is equal and everyone has access to the same skills, stats and traits. I’d like to see more game modes as well, but I think the priority for Anet right now should be fixing and balancing sPvP.

The issue is that power burst builds do enough damage. The bunker builds (as is currently evident) can take enough damage. Condition builds (as is currently evident) can also do enough damage. In terms of combat, the game is almost there for balance.

Like Ithilwen suggested, an attack and defense game mode would actually work very nicely with GW2’s combat system. The classes that ARE mobile can launch quick and repeated strikes (thief, warrior, mesmer, ele, engi). The less mobile classes can either boast the best defensive (not in the sense of bunkering) power, or launch a slow and deliberate assault with the intention of ending the game in one move (think of a bunker guard, necro, ranger, engi). There would be plenty of tactical choices that could be made by the team, regardless of their composition.

@Ithilwen Capture the flag would be exactly like spirit watch without the points, so I’m sure the meta would remain the same.

An attack and defense mode, like you suggested, sounds like it would be fun.

I think the lack of variety resides mostly in the lack of game modes privileging builds that can hold a point for longer over more active play creating a defensive meta that applies to battles on point even more when off point battles holds little benefits.
The game modes kinda modeled the roles on which teams should build around, being the real diversity there(teams) making small modifications to builds in order to increase synergy … lol that sounds good in theory… problem is that is very hard to balance teams, so they have to nerf classes and puggers that solo queue that were already loosing don’t understand why something was nerfed.

hotcarl.8621:

Pimsley.3681:

Replacing the old trait system that used points and distributed stats with the communist version we have now destroyed diversity.

Back then you could run unique yet effective builds on ele, engie, ranger…..

I disagree with that statement; prior to HoT, there were a number of effective builds out there for each profession. I think the June 2015 patch that streamlined traits was a good thing, but I think that the elite specs destroyed all the hard work that went into the previous major update.

The June update brought destruction and killed diversity, especially in pvp.

1. They removed stats from trailts and merged it all with amulet

2. Anything that restricts and limits your choices from what they used to be is anti-diversity.

3. June Update Was Murder. The worst update for me. Aside from trait limitation, certain builds and entire professions were messed up completely. One hasnt recovered yet.

Victims of June update:

• Shout warriors – was the nerf to shout necessary? Even if they didn’t nerf it, shout warriors would still be underwhelming in this meta. Nerfing it was overkill

• Warriors in general – the synergy between skills/traits/elites/grandmasters were poorly done

• Elixir Infused Bomb engie – build annihilated

• Engie trait/skill synergy between incendiary powder and nades – divorced/separated

- Engie traits were done as poorly as the warrior. But they made little improvements since June update. The biggest improvement from came from HoT, not June update

• Thieves were a mess. After June update, every class countered them and they had survival issues. Like the engie, they were made a little better by the expac.

• Fresh air ele did not feel nor play like it used to before the June update.

• Poison master ranger was nerfed by half….50%…. It was viable then but not worth running the build anymore. The hard nerf made it ineffective.

• Ranger traps no longer ground targeted. Bark skin no longer grandmaster but effectiveness nerfed. Old bark skin way more potent.

These were the ones on top of my head but there were more.

Only necro and mesmer got healthy buffs from June update. Buff to eles doesn’t count as it was taken away in Sept.

actually condi mesmer was nerfed too: 50% stealth nerf to maim the disillusioned, which is why no one runs an offensive condi mes build anymore… well that and the fact that a bunker mesmer can hold a point 3v1 and still manage to down enemies.

oh and also all the DS eles running around probably has something to do with it, since they completely negate any condi spec without even trying.

Pimsley.3681:

hotcarl.8621:

Pimsley.3681:

Replacing the old trait system that used points and distributed stats with the communist version we have now destroyed diversity.

Back then you could run unique yet effective builds on ele, engie, ranger…..

I disagree with that statement; prior to HoT, there were a number of effective builds out there for each profession. I think the June 2015 patch that streamlined traits was a good thing, but I think that the elite specs destroyed all the hard work that went into the previous major update.

The June update brought destruction and killed diversity, especially in pvp.

1. They removed stats from trailts and merged it all with amulet

2. Anything that restricts and limits your choices from what they used to be is anti-diversity.

3. June Update Was Murder. The worst update for me. Aside from trait limitation, certain builds and entire professions were messed up completely. One hasnt recovered yet.

Victims of June update:

• Shout warriors – was the nerf to shout necessary? Even if they didn’t nerf it, shout warriors would still be underwhelming in this meta. Nerfing it was overkill

• Warriors in general – the synergy between skills/traits/elites/grandmasters were poorly done

• Elixir Infused Bomb engie – build annihilated

• Engie trait/skill synergy between incendiary powder and nades – divorced/separated

- Engie traits were done as poorly as the warrior. But they made little improvements since June update. The biggest improvement from came from HoT, not June update

• Thieves were a mess. After June update, every class countered them and they had survival issues. Like the engie, they were made a little better by the expac.

• Fresh air ele did not feel nor play like it used to before the June update.

• Poison master ranger was nerfed by half….50%…. It was viable then but not worth running the build anymore. The hard nerf made it ineffective.

• Ranger traps no longer ground targeted. Bark skin no longer grandmaster but effectiveness nerfed. Old bark skin way more potent.

These were the ones on top of my head but there were more.

Only necro and mesmer got healthy buffs from June update. Buff to eles doesn’t count as it was taken away in Sept.

Someone just got an A on their PvP history exam. What a nerd

alain.1659:

Every profession should have 3 builds including tank, dps and condition damage. And they should be working pretty well. Why? Because there are some professions that can do three of them, and there are some can not even properly do one of them.

Problem is that this game has no idea about heavy-medium-light armor difference. Tempest being the tank? Why the heck? Guardian is dps? What the actual kitten is revenant? Father of all?

Because that all the roles have been randomly given to many professions, there is no balance. Class x can play tank, condi and dps. Class y can not do even one. Class z has no condition build available.

With this system, there will not be any balance in the game. Either give all professions 3 build possibility with different variations, or limit all of them to two at least. And fix the kitten bugs. Then maybe if we be good kids we can see the smurfs.

If you want any difference between heavy/light/medium armor then do pls start taking everything in consideration.

-Wars/Rev/Guards should have 1/5 of the base dmg/mobility that they currently have and then give that dmg/mobility to light armor/low HP professions…in return you can have the tankiness

lol @op want to make a list of things promised and things as they are now starting from pve..to wvw..to pvp? You would regret your life if u see it.