Guild Wars 2

I think it is time to buff this skill a little bit. At some point I remember that it got a 25% damage nerf which really hurt guardians. At that time they were complete monsters with some hp and healing back then was also 1:1 ratio on many skills like the dodge heal.

While guardians havent been nerfed so much anymore, and ever since then the other classes has been severally buffed (looking at warriors, necros, rangers bunkers, thieves got some too) which creeped the powerlevel of other classes but left the guardian not only with diminushed damage, but less base hp, less [boon duration, less burst potential

As a support guardians are still amazing, but as damage dealers they are lacking a bit, specially since it is so easy to outrun them and they now have to give up A LOT of survivability in order to attain some acceptable DPS.

I believe a good step towards bringing guardians DPS on par with others is raising its most popular weapon’s damage; the Greatsword.

Nerf selfless daring more, until it is on the level with other professions (essentially) passive heals, then maybe we could talk about guards doing damage on par with other professions. That seems reasonable yeah?

Mammoth.1975:

Nerf selfless daring more, until it is on the level with other professions (essentially) passive heals, then maybe we could talk about guards doing damage on par with other professions. That seems reasonable yeah?

you mean you didnt know that it got its effects nerfed a couple of months ago by half? It got its healing nerfed by half, with a base of 129 healing I think that skill has been butchered enough already, so no.

Fortus.6175:

Mammoth.1975:

Nerf selfless daring more, until it is on the level with other professions (essentially) passive heals, then maybe we could talk about guards doing damage on par with other professions. That seems reasonable yeah?

you mean you didnt know that it got its effects nerfed a couple of months ago by half? It got its healing nerfed by half, with a base of 190 healing I think that skill has been butchered enough already, so no.

I did say nerf it more, so yes, I’m aware it’s been nerfed. I’m curious why that doesn’t sound reasonable to you btw? If guards want their damage to be on par, surely their healing should be too?

What’s wrong with selfless daring?
It’s 129 heal on dodge roll with a 0.5 Healing Power coefficient.
For any build not using a Healing Power gear (pretty much needed in order to deal “decent” damage), that’s going to be 280 heal on dodge roll at best.

Vargamonth.2047:

What’s wrong with selfless daring?
It’s 129 heal on dodge roll with a 0.5 Healing Power coefficient.
For any build not using a Healing Power gear (pretty much needed in order to deal “decent” damage), that’s going to be 280 heal on dodge roll at best.

Why do you need to avoid healing power to do decent damage? Ask a few eles how it works.

Mammoth.1975:

Vargamonth.2047:

What’s wrong with selfless daring?
It’s 129 heal on dodge roll with a 0.5 Healing Power coefficient.
For any build not using a Healing Power gear (pretty much needed in order to deal “decent” damage), that’s going to be 280 heal on dodge roll at best.

Why do you need to avoid healing power to do decent damage? Ask a few eles how it works.

Apples to apples. Eles have high base damage, do condi as well as direct damage, also their heal roll is about 1304 (.5 healing power) bigger AoE and heals a condition once every 10 seconds, in those 10 seconds the guardian will not be able to put that much healing considering the base 129(.5) , it would need 10 dodges in 10 seconds to match the healing, then comes the condition clearing, nothing to compare there brah, if anything it backshot on you.

But then again, why are they being compared? A D/D ele will heal almost ful health while doing incredible damage while a guardian can barely heal one fourth his health unless he has AH while still not being able to deal enough damage to kill most people. The point of this thread is about DPS guardian, not healing support guardian. Selfless daring is ok, if anything it needs help in PvP, damage is not.

PS Sorry for my English, it isnt my first language

No WW doesn’t need a buff. The only problem with it, it’s very inconsistent with damage. Do get full damage you need disable melee attack assist, that way you can get inside players hit box and all the projectiles to hit.

Even better, we could ask it to some condtion class using shaman. The question is not about dealing damage with healing gear, it’s about doing it with a guardian.

Valk eles usually deal damage on fast (even instant) bursts, while getting fury on attuenement swap. That solely is a great advantage when compared to a Guardian who is hardly going to get fury unless the enemy is spamming burning and whose bursts are a lot more telegraphed..
The old D/D ones used to have almost permafury from auras and made better use of the healing power through an insane regen upkeep and some high scaling heal skills.

The critchance is going to be lacking for a guardian without precision gear and/or heavy invest in radiance, and since Zeal is going to be really low (probably at zero, because it’s a horrible traitline), low critchance will mean low damage, moderate at best.
Could be a Cleric / Valkyrie guardian heavy investing on both Radiance and Honor viable? I honestly don’t know.
The great potential of Radiance seems tied to 1H weapons. Sword and Scepter have a really awful cleave/AoE potential for teamfights and Monk Focus (30 in Valor) seems to offer much better sustainability for 1 on 1.
It could work for mace, but I hardly doubt that the extra damage would worth the sustain lost from Valor or the utility lost from Virtues.

In any case, I don’t know why I’m arguing here.
I don’t even think that a boost on WW is needed; there are some balanced builds out there that make a good use of the current GS.
I was just surprised about the mention of Selfless Daring as an issue. I could have compeltely understand some comments about retaliation upkeep or even condi removal, but I never had thought on Selfless Daring as something not even near OP for a build trying to deal damage.

Lets not make this a ele vs Guardian thread please.

@Harbinger, I already do that, I stand right inside them. Problem is that even then the damage is kinda low, people can walk out of it due to 20% slow on movement speed debuff said skill give us. I would also appreciate if 100b wasnt brough here either, 100b first 2-3 hits will out damage WW by a lot, if they can land a full combo it will kill anyone but tanks, a perfectly landed WW will do “decent” damage…..at most…

Guardians are fine in damage, all they need is a minor trait in radiance that allows the passive fire to still proc on virtue of justice after using its active (to inflict a blind).

The biggest problem with guardians is not the damage, but the mobility. Too many classes can simply kite a guardian to death without trying, I suggest adding torment to the guardian leap 3 or have it apply swiftness.

Mobility issues could be solved IMHO through a massive rework of Zeal traitline (swiftness on X, cripple on Y, specific movement impairment condi removal of Z, that kind of things).
This would allow some true pressure specs to appear while preventing them from taking too many goodies from other branches. It also probably wouldn’t destroy anything currently available since Zeal is horrible for anything besides Spirit Weapons maybe (and almost everyone agree that IAs are not good for the game, so kitten them :P).

Mammoth.1975:

Vargamonth.2047:

What’s wrong with selfless daring?
It’s 129 heal on dodge roll with a 0.5 Healing Power coefficient.
For any build not using a Healing Power gear (pretty much needed in order to deal “decent” damage), that’s going to be 280 heal on dodge roll at best.

Why do you need to avoid healing power to do decent damage? Ask a few eles how it works.

Might stacking and Crit, Power & Crit Damage. Healing can still be up there, but not as much as heal bunker.

Fortus.6175:

As a support guardians are still amazing, but as damage dealers they are lacking a bit, specially since it is so easy to outrun them and they now have to give up A LOT of survivability in order to attain some acceptable DPS.

LOL

Stobes is laughing because Fortus hasn’t played against any good DPS guards.

Guardian mobility/ability to catch up is “fine” and even “good” if you really chose to commit to it:
- Sword2, GS3, Scepter3, Staff3, Mace3
- SY, Retreat, JI
But yes, the price to pay for “catching up” with an opponent might be a tad high and sometimes it feels that you have to make a few unnatural choices.

As for the damage, it is about fine as well in the grand scheme of things, but I think because the damage from other classes is through the roof at the moment we have neither the survivability nor comparable damage and so we all feel a bit crippled, I agree.

So I feel like we have the bronze medal at everything at the moment, and it is a bit frustrating.
Not sure that upping the damage of GS is THE solution though, I’d rather wait and see the changes to other classes first as we might just end up OK after a batch of changes.

Maybe just speed the animation up in rotations and control over area.

DoYourBestBear.6810:

Stobes is laughing because Fortus hasn’t played against any good DPS guards.

There are no good DPS guards. Unless you’re talking WvW, where everybody is a champ.

I don’t know , if mr.stance or wunzy funs gets a buff I’m going to be in trouble :/
I don’t really want that to happen…

YuiRS.8129:

DoYourBestBear.6810:

Stobes is laughing because Fortus hasn’t played against any good DPS guards.

There are no good DPS guards. Unless you’re talking WvW, where everybody is a champ.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WP4b-zaMCJo