Guild Wars 2

When im pvping in normal bg’s my goal naturally is to win the game but as gw2 is now, its no point to it.

on several occasions when enemy team moves in 1 huge ball, ive found it easy to outmove them,ninja their points and win the game but ive come to realize that its not worth it.

When enemy team is zerging they nearly always win the teamfights and the whole team is getting kills.

Usually when this scenario is happening, the enemy team players have +100 points more than players in my team, even if we win the game, we get maybe 30 bonus points from the actual win… i find this rather silly.

Yup the scoring system is pretty terrible. It should share out the kills and caps etc. to whole team so you still get credit while trying to cap points and win.

The worse thing is if you break away from the zerg and try to take down treb or a point alone and get 2-3vs1’ed you gain nothing and have wasted several minutes for 0 score.
Some games ive just been gangkitten constantly by trying to actually win or take out a treb and ended on under 50 points. Then next game i just run with zerg for easy 200+ points.

problem is that everything else encourages all these afk leechers to “defend” one point with 6 people.

i dont think that would be the case.

XronttiX.1906:

i dont think that would be the case.

did you ever play arathi on wow where like 1/3 of ur team was “defending” the only note your team had because u gained a proper amount of honor for doing nothing?

exactly the same will happen here if you start to implement mechanics that provide rewards for doing nothing but standing around

the difference to wow is that gw2 maps are smaller and the moving is much more fast.
you cant sit on a point for long until someone comes.
My main point of this post was that winning doesn’t give you anything.

We are also in much more different environment than wow,
in wow you needed honor to get good pvp gear for arenas, in gw you get items that look better…

i doubt that players are motivated to afk glory to get better looks.

Deepblue.1237:

problem is that everything else encourages all these afk leechers to “defend” one point with 6 people.

I don’t see how it does or should. In other games where defending is important, normally one or two people – depending on the circumstances – stay behind to defend and everyone else moves around as needed. Once a game reaches a point where its out of reach you’ll often have people hang around the defense point to get some rewards, but before that they normally play to win.

XronttiX.1906:

When im pvping in normal bg’s my goal naturally is to win the game but as gw2 is now, its no point to it.

on several occasions when enemy team moves in 1 huge ball, ive found it easy to outmove them,ninja their points and win the game but ive come to realize that its not worth it.

When enemy team is zerging they nearly always win the teamfights and the whole team is getting kills.

Usually when this scenario is happening, the enemy team players have +100 points more than players in my team, even if we win the game, we get maybe 30 bonus points from the actual win… i find this rather silly.

+1 this exactly.

I’ve been solo winning games since they introduced the 6 gods forsaken 8vs8. Just outmaneuver the zerg and win the game. But it’s not worth it, yo u get far less points than simply being with the zerg.

Personally I absolutely despise 8v8. Spvp went from being the “surprise feature” I really enjoyed (I’m not usually a pvp-in-a-box person) in BWE1 to something I’m not even playing anymore now that we’re live.

Anet, please bring back 5vs5 hotjoin. I understand your reasoning for having 8vs8 although I do not agree with the result, but why can’t you have both and let us the players decide what we want to play? Plus, it would be a much better practice platform four tournies.

(and yes I can play tournies for 5vs5 but I’d like the option for casual 5vs5 hot join as well).

Killing more should make your team win, nothing is stopping the other team from running as a group, there are some great 5v5 + fights if you run as a group

aleiro.8521:

Killing more should make your team win, nothing is stopping the other team from running as a group, there are some great 5v5 + fights if you run as a group

The problem is that in other games, killing more has led to winning more because its helped you accomplish the objectives of the map, whereas in this game, killing more leads to winning more because it works better than trying to concern yourself with the objectives. Objective play is actually discouraged by the current system. You could actually remove the objectives from the maps altogether and not change all that much about the way people are playing these maps right now.

yeah totally agree… but the system is actually best in 5v5 …

and i think balance is good around 2v2 and 3v3 also …since in Tournamens you don’t have so many 5v5 fights, since you have to split the group sometimes!

8v8 sucks … 5v5 Tourneys Rule, but you need to have a good team for this!

I think it would be nice to have more options … like in a Shooter where you can set some things… this would make a great experience!

you could also play 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and stuff ….

How would 5vs5 reduce a zerg mentality. Surely 8vs8 actually increases your strategic options.

One of the most boring aspects of WoW BGs was the “defending”. Sitting on a point for a whole game that no one ever attacks, and if they do its a whole zerg that you just die to anyway.

Also you say that players won’t afk for glory because you don’t need it for gear upgrades. However, you can use the same logic against your argument that players just zerg for the points.

I’m partly being the devils advocate, because I have seen the games you talk about; but I also get a lot of close games and non zerg games, and almost all the time it is a fun experience.

XronttiX.1906:

When im pvping in normal bg’s my goal naturally is to win the game but as gw2 is now, its no point to it.

on several occasions when enemy team moves in 1 huge ball, ive found it easy to outmove them,ninja their points and win the game but ive come to realize that its not worth it.

When enemy team is zerging they nearly always win the teamfights and the whole team is getting kills.

Usually when this scenario is happening, the enemy team players have +100 points more than players in my team, even if we win the game, we get maybe 30 bonus points from the actual win… i find this rather silly.

+1 to this!

I really hate zergs, and I’m never part of them. I know it’s sometimes fun to do that, and it feels like you’re invincible, but think about other players….zerg are really ruining game experience for the group who’s not in zerg formation. Yes, you can win without being in zerg group, but it’s really not worth it…

Still, I don’t see any good way to get rid of this kind of playing, and reward those who are not zerging and still wining.

Yasha.5963:

How would 5vs5 reduce a zerg mentality. Surely 8vs8 actually increases your strategic options.

One of the most boring aspects of WoW BGs was the “defending”. Sitting on a point for a whole game that no one ever attacks, and if they do its a whole zerg that you just die to anyway.

Also you say that players won’t afk for glory because you don’t need it for gear upgrades. However, you can use the same logic against your argument that players just zerg for the points.

I’m partly being the devils advocate, because I have seen the games you talk about; but I also get a lot of close games and non zerg games, and almost all the time it is a fun experience.

I can’t speak for WoW, but in TOR, if you were guarding a point, you called out the incoming attackers and then held them off until your help arrived. It worked perfectly fine, and there was a defender’s advantage – as there is in real lie battles, as there should be in games and as there is in every game of every genre I’ve ever played. This game absolutely has an attacker’s advantage, and I think it really ruins the PvP experience.

Here’s a good idea from another thread:

Chesire.9043:

I agree with the last two posts. Either make it a queue system by default OR take away the benefits of Winning. I would also suggest lowering the points obtained from kills from 5 to 1. That way the game becomes even more focused on capturing points and getting other players out of them by any means necessary and even less emphasis on running around zerging the map looking for kills. This would make point defending/capping more rewarding as well, at least in feeling anyway.

There should also be glory rewarded for amount of time spent inside captured points for people who actually defend. Often times people don’t stick around captured points because they are missing out on glory but actually securing objectives, which seems a little antagonistic to the whole goal of the maps.

If this increases glory gain per match, the simplest solution would be to increase cost of vendors.

Since I’m adding suggestions still, I’ll add one more and say remove glory sharing between characters as well as Rank; but that is just a personal preference, and I think it would give people more reason to pvp with other professions if they wanted more bragging rights or something.

Heres a couple more suggestions that could help.
-Increase the gold you get when neutralizing and capping a node
-Give extra glory when killing someone on/around a node you own
-If you are in a node owned by your team, and you’re team gets a kill, you get a small portion of glory, since theoretically, you defending that node let your other team run off and kill that person.

Yasha.5963:

How would 5vs5 reduce a zerg mentality. Surely 8vs8 actually increases your strategic options.

One of the most boring aspects of WoW BGs was the “defending”. Sitting on a point for a whole game that no one ever attacks, and if they do its a whole zerg that you just die to anyway.

Also you say that players won’t afk for glory because you don’t need it for gear upgrades. However, you can use the same logic against your argument that players just zerg for the points.

I’m partly being the devils advocate, because I have seen the games you talk about; but I also get a lot of close games and non zerg games, and almost all the time it is a fun experience.

I don’t know why, but it just played very differently in 5vs5 than it does in 8vs8.

The maps really are too small for 8v8.

XronttiX.1906:

i doubt that players are motivated to afk glory to get better looks.

People AFK’d in GW1 for thousands of hours to get a couple words under their name.

Heres an example. Its disgusting. Enemy team 8 manned until end and held 1 cap point whole game. Their reward for losing was earning more than double the points of the winning team.

http://i47.tinypic.com/qqvos4.jpg

The points from kills alone on team score make it almost even til the end.

Zerging is the most efficient way of getting points. I hope arena net has plans to help curb this. It’s supposed to be a game mode primarily about taking and controlling objectives, not rolling as a zerg for the whole game.

I’d love to see more game modes like CTF, deathmatch, arenas and the like. I feel that, for a primarily PvP focused game, there really aren’t enough options aside from the standard objective game mode which quite frankly doesn’t seem to be working as intended.

Definitely need defender points, holding and remaining at a point should tick glory up.

And if you die defending a point you should get a small reward for it.

Autobalance adds an extra kick in the pants to the point system. You can spend all your time capping points and making sure your team has all the nodes to win. Only to get auto balanced and find yourself losing out on the win bonus and the points you would have gotten if you had just zerged with your old team.

Scoring system certainly is a joke at the moment.

My opinion on the problems with the current system (wont supply many solutions; that is the responsibility of the devs):

• 8 people capping/uncapping the same point -_-
• No incentive for being the lone defender on a point. If no enemy shows up, your score just ends up being abysmal.
• In fact, there is no reward for defending anything what so ever.
• Rewards for reviving (if there is any), should be more obviously and give quite a bit of points. Lost many games because no one bothers reviving.
• The boss mobs should be a team effort, not something 1 or 2 people can easily do.
• Scoring should be more team oriented, instead of individual-oriented.

I agree if u want points / pvp ranks you gotta play counter strike deathmatch style, I mean yes the scoring system has to be reworked.

Except i dont agree on your boss point..
If 1 or 2 players can solo it maybe its because no one on your team dared to come back defend him.
Cause alone i can wipe a team attacking my boss .. now if that team is made of 5+ players maybe i wont save my boss alone.
But then If all their team is on my boss , my team will probably control the 3 spots therefore nullifying more or less the 100pts for the boss kill.

Also I think no one care about defending boss cause its too long to go all over the map and in the meantime odds are ur boss will be already dead.

I disagree.
If the boss is too easy, well then it’s easy to just ninja the boss.

I can solo Svarnir without any problems – pretty fast too.
If I know that no one is nearby, then obviously I go for the kill, which shouldn’t be possible in my book.

I can’t help but imagine these bosses were inspired by LoL. The baron comes to mind (teamwide buff); something that is a team effort to kill. So I think it should be a team effort here too. Something that could give the losing team an edge if they were to focus on the task.

I don’t like the “herp de rp 25 easy points de rp”, and I think I made that clear just about now.

Ps. Why is “d e r p” censored? Thats ridiculous.

Imo you get more glory for zerging because of the bonus on kills:
You earn 5 game points for your team for every kill, and get yourself 5 glory.
Added to that you get 10 bonus glory for “Skirmishes” (outside a node), 10 bonus defending or attacking a node.

Simple solution: decrease kill glory bonus from 10 to 5.
Bam, one third of glory less for killing.

I you believe defending or attacking a node is relevant (which is not for zergs, they’ll just fight anywhere anyway), just decrease the kill bonus for skirmishes. That way playing objectives more than random killing is more rewarded.

Edit: you think bosses should be a team effort? Double their hp.
When you have used all your cooldowns to get the boss half hp, you’ll certainly hope for teamates to come and help.

A scoring system for a defending mechanic wouldn’t be to bad, just don’t let in accumulate score unless you’re you know, actually defending. By actually defending, I mean on the point in combat denying the enemy from taking it, get points while in combat on the point defending but not for just camping on it when there is nothing happening their to begin with. Should also remove the points from killing enemies, would make people want to just zerg ball less since it is easily countered and they wouldn’t get crap for points by using that method. People always complain about it being hard to learn classes. The zerg ball doesn’t really help, it’s really more or less, do you have enough survivability to live to through a groups damage long enough to kill them or get out of range of the damage but still be in combat to get kill credit right now.