Guild Wars 2

The best of Matchmaking S4.

Red Team
2duo, +1 +1 +1
Blue Team
2 duo, +1 +1 +1
Final Score: won by 300 pnts

No One swapped to DH.
No One swapped to Necros.
This is how matchmaking placed these teams because matchmaking didn’t know how to split these players efficiently.

There was indeed 1 very low mmr player on our team that could have skewed the results but when it comes to matchmaking like this (dh > necro so why place 2 on other team?) there’s just no excuses, matchmaking needs to get better.

Yes we know DH is flavor of the month especially after nerfs from other classes but matchmaking CAN be smarter allocating players between Red and Blue.

I’d personally prefer it to be a toggle that players can select if they want groups balanced around the number of specific classes in a particular team. I only say this because having Anet enforce this could result in longer queue times.

Saiyan.1704:

The best of Matchmaking S4.

Red Team
2duo, +1 +1 +1
Blue Team
2 duo, +1 +1 +1
Final Score: won by 300 pnts

No One swapped to DH.
No One swapped to Necros.
This is how matchmaking placed these teams because matchmaking didn’t know how to split these players efficiently.

There was indeed 1 very low mmr player on our team that could have skewed the results but when it comes to matchmaking like this (dh > necro so why place 2 on other team?) there’s just no excuses, matchmaking needs to get better.

Yes we know DH is flavor of the month especially after nerfs from other classes but matchmaking CAN be smarter allocating players between Red and Blue.

lol i was on your team saiyan…i was the guy that typed out “FULL FORCE” in map chat…i swapped to guardian cuz i thought it be funny stacking traps on traps..dont blame matchmakin for ridiculous matchups jus because u load in last or dont realize the switch,,smh @ ppl who always blame matchmaking first.

Koru.8574:

Saiyan.1704:

The best of Matchmaking S4.

Red Team
2duo, +1 +1 +1
Blue Team
2 duo, +1 +1 +1
Final Score: won by 300 pnts

No One swapped to DH.
No One swapped to Necros.
This is how matchmaking placed these teams because matchmaking didn’t know how to split these players efficiently.

There was indeed 1 very low mmr player on our team that could have skewed the results but when it comes to matchmaking like this (dh > necro so why place 2 on other team?) there’s just no excuses, matchmaking needs to get better.

Yes we know DH is flavor of the month especially after nerfs from other classes but matchmaking CAN be smarter allocating players between Red and Blue.

lol i was on your team saiyan…i was the guy that typed out “FULL FORCE” in map chat…i swapped to guardian cuz i thought it be funny stacking traps on traps..dont blame matchmakin for ridiculous matchups jus because u load in last or dont realize the switch,,smh @ ppl who always blame matchmaking first.

So that makes it ok? smh.

so i just want to set the facts straight, you want to make matchmaking/matchups better even if it means increasing the que times seeing as it is already long as it is and you are blaming players for wanting to class stack as bad matchmaking/matchups…did i get everything?

2- 5 minutes isn’t along time for queues ……..

i wait 30….y is urs soo short

Koru.8574:

i wait 30….y is urs soo short

Started late like in last week in Sapphure, since i have everything from the last few seasons I have no reason to grind out wins working up T5 Ruby now do about 3-5 matches a day……… I am in no rush to

Koru.8574:

so i just want to set the facts straight, you want to make matchmaking/matchups better even if it means increasing the que times seeing as it is already long as it is and you are blaming players for wanting to class stack as bad matchmaking/matchups…did i get everything?

You didn’t get a single item but i’ll help you out.

I never said I wanted to replace queue times for fairer matchmaking I simply said it needs to be smarter and it can be done without the increased queue times by-product of a system.

Also, I never blamed a single person for class stacking. This is completely directed towards MM. Hope that clears things up.

Class stacking is a symptom of builds which are highly successful despite taking little skill to play.

Treat the cause, not the symptom.

Exedore.6320:

Class stacking is a symptom of builds which are highly successful despite taking little skill to play.

Treat the cause, not the symptom.

treating the symptom will balance as a band aid for later. class stacking will always be a problem and there will always be easy builds.

Class stacking issue exist because devs design classes around not having class stacking.

Best example: thieves are designed around decent team that is capable holding point while thief roams around. Thief should not be able to 1v1 anyone according to devs but just roam.
Now it works wonderful in theory, the problem starts, when you have multiple thieves on same team. You have multiple characters on team that are designed around not being able to combat other classes.
Same applies to other classes as well. A class is designed to have very powerful spell, as long as there is only 1 of those classes on team, it is manageable. Multiple of those classes? GG.

Such (imo, rather plain stupid) design philosophy doesn’t work with class stacking. I have made multiple threads about it – but it always falls on deaf ears.

Even ESL players agreed with it and pretty much forced organizers’ hand to add no class stacking rule by bringing teams of the same class last year.

sophiewhite.3149:

class stacking will always be a problem and there will always be easy builds.

Neither class stacking nor easy builds (to the extent that DH is easy) existed to anywhere near the degree it did for the first two years of the game. The pre-HoT trait revamp started it and elite specs are keeping it alive.

Fix the root cause, don’t dance around it. I’ll give you a hint how to do it: Don’t put someone in charge of profession design who can’t solo a forest boss.

I would take longer queue times if it meant having better general match quality

If we were able to switch characters and builds faster before the match begins, this wouldn’t be a problem at all. You could just counter comp. For that same reason, tweaking the matchmaking system is an inefficient way to prevent class stacking, since you could always switch characters once you’re in the game.

And before someone says it: you can not force players to play the character they queued with. Adjusting your composition is a key part of the game. Even if we allow only one character of each class (preventing the VERY problematic thief stacking), what will you do if you have no healer? Or if you have both a thief and a fresh air ele?

Queue times are long because the player base is low. And the player base is low because the game’s balance and matchmaking is kitten. Sacrifice queue times for better balance, better better matchmaking and preventing class stacking and you’ll attract more players because they’ll want to play the game. That will automatically decrease queue times. And the more players the game has, the shorter the queue times, so we may even see times shorter than currently.

At the very least, something easy that would help would be to only allow two of the same class in a match.

Sorel.4870:

For that same reason, tweaking the matchmaking system is an inefficient way to prevent class stacking, since you could always switch characters once you’re in the game.

Obviously if you prevent class stacking then it would have to include the prevention of character swapping once map loads. This has been discussed and agreed before.

Sadly I think some of the guys above are right, changing the system to mix teams up a bit more would result in longer queue times, and lets be honest these queue times over the last 2 years have gotten a bit longer. This time of the season you see even longer queue times on some days for what ever reason, anything right now that would increase time would be a big hit to the pvp part of this game/season.

At first I liked when the amulets that where removed where taken out, forced some to get creative at first and try new things. But what it really did was allow the Ele and Druid to hold points long enough to defend against the guarding hord. I have played Guard as my main for 4 years now. Other then bunker they where never the heros of a match carrying a team to a victory but now the games and flooded with players laying traps down on the ground smashing whole teams to the ground like they where made of butter.

Solution 1: Do not nerf the traps, maybe increase the abilities timer

Solution 2: Some how make the traps you stack on top of each other less effective

Solution: 3: Nerf the traps! However if your going to do this dont make the guarding useless again instead rework traps all together or what I would really like to see is spirit weapons made useful, Spirit weapons have never been viable in pvp.

This season has been one of the most frustrating, at first I thought is was awesome fast fast matches heart was pumping fast I was excited. Then this!

Koru.8574:

so i just want to set the facts straight, you want to make matchmaking/matchups better even if it means increasing the que times seeing as it is already long as it is and you are blaming players for wanting to class stack as bad matchmaking/matchups…did i get everything?

Uh, yes?

In Ruby I’m averaging around 3-4 minute queue times. But I’m also experiencing a greater-than-50% blowout rate (one team scores less than 200 points) due to the absolutely atrocious matchmaking where a diamond player queues with his amber friend and the pip range “averages out” to high-Sapphire.

And yeah, an amber player’s badness/inexperience hurts a LOT more than a diamond player’s goodness/experience and it doesn’t actually balance out.

Zintrothen.1056:

Queue times are long because the player base is low. And the player base is low because the game’s balance and matchmaking is kitten.

Contributing factor but I doubt that is the reason.

Zintrothen.1056:

Sacrifice queue times for better balance, better better matchmaking and preventing class stacking and you’ll attract more players because they’ll want to play the game. That will automatically decrease queue times. And the more players the game has, the shorter the queue times, so we may even see times shorter than currently.

Doubtful.

Spartacus.3192:

Sorel.4870:

For that same reason, tweaking the matchmaking system is an inefficient way to prevent class stacking, since you could always switch characters once you’re in the game.

Obviously if you prevent class stacking then it would have to include the prevention of character swapping once map loads. This has been discussed and agreed before.

1- Unless, you let them switch to a class not load on your team yet.

Exemple:
You are Tempest, no other tempest in the group (obviously) but you would prefer to play Reaper (no other in the group) then select it.

2- Why class stacking is bad? It’s META classes stacking that is. So, make sure that class + amulet is “unique”. Refer to 1, can’t select a class + amulet already in game. This open up option like: Mender Guard and Marauder Guard or Sage Engi with Marauder Engi.

3- Then… we have CORE and Specialization. With the next EXPAC (coming soon…) new Spec will be available. Why not doing class or spec + amulet to restrict it furthermore?

So, Sage engi (condi burst paper wet) and Sage Scrapper (bruiser take your time to condi kill you) would work.

I am all for good matchup balances… but I prefer to keep options to chose build / comp diversity than having artificial META created by a dumb (not dynamic) none-stack ESL rules.

As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, Pro-league has no class-stacking. Why does the same rule not apply in Ranked? Is it really that difficult for devs to apply some logic when making changes?

TBH I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. But want to lend my support to some real and meaningful change to pvp.

MissCee.1295:

As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, Pro-league has no class-stacking. Why does the same rule not apply in Ranked? Is it really that difficult for devs to apply some logic when making changes?

TBH I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. But want to lend my support to some real and meaningful change to pvp.

Pro-League is much different than ranked.

Ayrilana.1396:

MissCee.1295:

As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, Pro-league has no class-stacking. Why does the same rule not apply in Ranked? Is it really that difficult for devs to apply some logic when making changes?

TBH I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. But want to lend my support to some real and meaningful change to pvp.

Pro-League is much different than ranked.

Not really. They also were stacking overtuned profs to improve win chance. In ranked, w/e team has most overtuned profs usually wins (given matchmaking actually works and both teams are decent).

Cynz.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

MissCee.1295:

As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, Pro-league has no class-stacking. Why does the same rule not apply in Ranked? Is it really that difficult for devs to apply some logic when making changes?

TBH I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. But want to lend my support to some real and meaningful change to pvp.

Pro-League is much different than ranked.

Not really. They also were stacking overtuned profs to improve win chance. In ranked, w/e team has most overtuned profs usually wins (given matchmaking actually works and both teams are decent).

Pro league are fixed teams with scheduled matches. That’s nothing like ranked.

Pro league have a dumb no class stacking rules.

It should at least be able to have the same classes with different amulet (role).

This would be “smart-class stacking”. Or iStacking, I don’t care. DH mender and DH burst marauder bring two different thing on the table (with different weaponset/runes/sigils…). Options are good.

Deleting all our possibilities, is bad.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cynz.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

MissCee.1295:

As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, Pro-league has no class-stacking. Why does the same rule not apply in Ranked? Is it really that difficult for devs to apply some logic when making changes?

TBH I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. But want to lend my support to some real and meaningful change to pvp.

Pro-League is much different than ranked.

Not really. They also were stacking overtuned profs to improve win chance. In ranked, w/e team has most overtuned profs usually wins (given matchmaking actually works and both teams are decent).

Pro league are fixed teams with scheduled matches. That’s nothing like ranked.

So what? Doesn’t change the fact that classes are not balanced around stacking on same team but it happens every match which leads to one of the teams having huge advantage because balancing team constantly makes poor design choices.

Hell ya, i would rather sit in longer queues (already sit in 1 hour so w/e) than end up with 3 thieves on team, get harassed for playing one and have teammates afk because “match is lost gg” before match even started. IT HAPPENS A LOT.

Cynz.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cynz.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

MissCee.1295:

As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, Pro-league has no class-stacking. Why does the same rule not apply in Ranked? Is it really that difficult for devs to apply some logic when making changes?

TBH I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. But want to lend my support to some real and meaningful change to pvp.

Pro-League is much different than ranked.

Not really. They also were stacking overtuned profs to improve win chance. In ranked, w/e team has most overtuned profs usually wins (given matchmaking actually works and both teams are decent).

Pro league are fixed teams with scheduled matches. That’s nothing like ranked.

So what? Doesn’t change the fact that classes are not balanced around stacking on same team but it happens every match which leads to one of the teams having huge advantage because balancing team constantly makes poor design choices.

Hell ya, i would rather sit in longer queues (already sit in 1 hour so w/e) than end up with 3 thieves on team, get harassed for playing one and have teammates afk because “match is lost gg” before match even started. IT HAPPENS A LOT.

Then request that Anet add a toggle for those who prefer there to be no class stacking to get matches just like that. It’s unfair to force everyone to sit through longer queues just because some people have decided to take issue with class stacking as if that will magically fix the actual problem.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cynz.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cynz.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

MissCee.1295:

As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, Pro-league has no class-stacking. Why does the same rule not apply in Ranked? Is it really that difficult for devs to apply some logic when making changes?

TBH I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. But want to lend my support to some real and meaningful change to pvp.

Pro-League is much different than ranked.

Not really. They also were stacking overtuned profs to improve win chance. In ranked, w/e team has most overtuned profs usually wins (given matchmaking actually works and both teams are decent).

Pro league are fixed teams with scheduled matches. That’s nothing like ranked.

So what? Doesn’t change the fact that classes are not balanced around stacking on same team but it happens every match which leads to one of the teams having huge advantage because balancing team constantly makes poor design choices.

Hell ya, i would rather sit in longer queues (already sit in 1 hour so w/e) than end up with 3 thieves on team, get harassed for playing one and have teammates afk because “match is lost gg” before match even started. IT HAPPENS A LOT.

Then request that Anet add a toggle for those who prefer there to be no class stacking to get matches just like that. It’s unfair to force everyone to sit through longer queues just because some people have decided to take issue with class stacking as if that will magically fix the actual problem.

Assuming it’ll bring a negative effect like higher queue times, will just limit some one’s ability to get it done.

Honestly there should be a system in place that doesn’t allow more then 1 of each profession at the same time. Either the players need to swap or the match doesn’t start. Or we get the option to swap before we enter the instance.
This should be only in ranked, so the new players still can play their single character if they dont have the option to swap.

mazut.4296:

Honestly there should be a system in place that doesn’t allow more then 1 of each profession at the same time. Either the players need to swap or the match doesn’t start. Or we get the option to swap before we enter the instance.
This should be only in ranked, so the new players still can play their single character if they dont have the option to swap.

Nope.

Can’t stack same class build + amulet would be much less DELETING the GAME than your proposal.

Class switching and loading template at the start of the game, is what make HARDCORE players stay in the game.

Those dastardly August Butchers.