Guild Wars 2

I am enjoying the new system of matchmaking to its fullest so far. That said, the inclusion of Courtyard is absolutely out of bounds. The entire rest of the maps are about a specific type of gameplay but you put a TDM in the middle of that?! I can move on about the guild v PUG topic that’s already being addressed by people, but when that is happening in Courtyard its just stupid and unacceptable. Look, I don’t mind Skyhammer (Heck I like the fact that positioning becomes more important to all classes w the threat of instant death) but this map destroys any semblance of point capture gameplay or builds that people spend time prepping for.

because the community wanted a new game mode badly.

Yes and they gave it to us Courtyard released April 15, 2014, and we hated it.
So they decided to put it into ranked que.

Boycott Courtyard.

Lupanic.6502:

because the community wanted a new game mode badly.

Why don’t they add a new game mode already instead of throwing random death matches in the middle of a conquest game?

This may or may not be in the ladder matches, along with skyhammer.

Shrapnel one of the BIGGEST complaints towards ANET was that there wasn’t enough game modes. The reason for this is (in part) that certain builds work incredibly well in conquest style matches that actually bar the inclusion of other types of builds. Some of those builds can ONLY be powerful in conquest which protects them from sever nerfing because doing so would effectively remove an entire playstyle from the game.

TDM is the staple PvP setup though. Team vs Team at its most basic. Courtyard is difficult for people to adjust to because there isn’t a simple "fight here’ or “fight there”.

You dont see hit and run builds in conquest because attacking a point serves little purpose if you dont either take the point/Decap the point/ or tie up multiple people ON that point.

Namely. People are kitteny about courtyard becuase they were stupid enough to think that a game mode with a different rule system would actually use the same builds to the same effect. In a TDM mode any and all fear my necro has towards a hambow dissapears in an instant. Same with most engineers. Because im not forced to fight these builds in tight quarters where I get turned into a ping pong ball.

Yes it gets rid of the point capture gameplay. Which is EXACTLY THE POINT OF A NEW GAME MODE. Did you think any other game mode would play like conquest?

@Kurse. Do you even realize what you just said? Why don’t they add a new game mdoe already instead of ADDING A NEW GAME MODE TO THE RANKED MATCHUPS?

So you want more game modes…but you want them to be exactly like conquest. You want them to play and feel like conquest. That doesn’t even make sense.

TDM IS a new game mode. It has a different objective. A different scoring system. A different playbook.

If you can’t adjust to something as SIMPLE as team death match. Than I HOPE they never add something actually mildly complex like the Assault and King of the Hill game modes.

@Shadelang first off I won’t even address the fact that you are saying people honestly can’t adjust to TDM and would be lost in anything complex Anet could give us. Rude and unnecessary.
Now to the point, TDM is not the actual issue. The issue is that it is in the same que to play conquest. If people SET a build for conquest only to be put in TDM it’s a waste of time as well as not what they signed up for. If you want other “intricate” form of pvp (although I don’t see how TDM is at all complex or worth playing) that’s fine! But if you are queued for conquest, I’m pretty sure most want to play conquest, again unless it’s an organized guild group in which case it’s a farm fest.

If your upset at having to reset your builds then instead of crying for it to be split. (might I add courtyard is only ONE map so it would likely be alone in its que until new maps could be developed would would seemingly be a waste of UI space IMO) You should be pushing for the ability to save our builds and layouts. Something weve been wanting for awhile that would completely solve that little issue.

As for wasting time. We have over a minute before the start of the match each match to adjust our build. Most people already know there builds and can switch with relative ease. The only issue is that now people need to learn builds that work in a team DM environment.

As for the rest of your post you prove yourself completely deserving of the implied insults you so AMAZINGLY discovered.

First. I never said TDM was complex or “intricate” a word you quoted from gods know where. Its simplicity is what gives people freedom in the match. (well done somehow managing to get that COMPLETELY wrong) The players make it as complicated as they like instead of the map itself chaining a player to specific areas.

As for it being worth playing. Its worth playing because it requires a different thought process than conquest. When the objective is different the game is different and people play differently. Which is the whole point of another game mode. That alone makes it worth it. Because people do different things making the fight something actually NEW. And we play games for these new experiences and the whole alure behind pvp is that its NOT a scripted fight where the enemy does the same thing each round over and over.

Also theres this wonderful VOTING system in the game now. Imagine that. Meaning courtyard would never even be on the wheel when it started spinning unless SOMEONE looked at it and thought (hmm id like to play that). Map voting has been a thing in pvp games for a LOOOOOONG time now. The ONLY difference between gw2s map voting and others is that now people that actually enjoy playing on generally disliked maps with a full team actually has that opportunity even if its at a ONE IN TEN CHANCE

What you want is to pretty much take that away from them. Yeah you can play on your map. But in order to have a full team youl likely have to wait 30-40 minutes in que. Boy wouldn’t THAT be fun.

Justin ODell.9517:

Saiyan.1704:

This may or may not be in the ladder matches, along with skyhammer.

It will not be included during season play.

Thats a shame but I can understand why. It would have been nice seeing people play in different ways though.

I’m pretty casual pvpeer and for me it’s interesting to play on that map, cuase i don’t go “bunker point”, “kittenap” or such builds.

Would be cool i think though to seperate Death Match and point holding game into 2 types, but atm we don’t have enough maps to make death match alive.

Thanka you all for the posts. Glad it won’t be included.

A different game mode requires a different queue. The game is balanced around conquest. The builds used are designed for that.
Nobody ever said courtyard is fine for serious gameplay except casuals. Can you please stop balancing competitive stuff around them?

Justin ODell.9517:

Saiyan.1704:

This may or may not be in the ladder matches, along with skyhammer.

It will not be included during season play.

Why not maintain this map ? in my opinion is a fun map , it gives a different kind of playstile and variability . Having one map like this force you to evaluate also a different scenario in your team composition . it is a random mad variable in respect to contest maps but it is fun and make things a little different .

I agree pier.

@robert Why is conquest something the game should be balanced around? Introducing other modes into the same pool is how we change the balance of the game as the goal of the balance changes as well.

As for the builds being balanced around it. Yeah. The builds are balanced around fighting on tiny point. We FINALLY have(had) an opportunity to have people start making NEW builds because the goal of the map was different. Wed start seeing bunker builds being replaced by actual support builds for once. Something that is minority in conquest as support is secondary to personal survival. Often supporting a team mate was accidental at best. Thats no longer the case in TDM version of a support build. Meaning it would be a different build AND playstyle we could have had become a thing.

The longer conquest is left as the sole center of our pvp world the more likely that any gamemode or map that steps outside of that tiny view of pvp is gonna be a gimmick at best.

Id love to see more maps be put in with other game modes. Id like to see another TDM map with an assault/king of the hill/assassination/ and attrition maps as well and have them actually MEAN something instead of being “that thing in custom arenas”. Because there are entire playstyles that simply cant and never will exist in the current capture and hold map.

Sadly from the reactions I have seen over the last few days. I kinda doubt that will ever happen.

Justin ODell.9517:

Saiyan.1704:

This may or may not be in the ladder matches, along with skyhammer.

It will not be included during season play.

Why its now in if you exactly know that this map does not match with the demands for a map for professional matches? Its just frustrating.

Justin ODell.9517:

Saiyan.1704:

This may or may not be in the ladder matches, along with skyhammer.

It will not be included during season play.

That’s a shame it seems to be quite popular.

Anet should be a little more independend and let DM map too in pvp . If we had an half probability to get contest map or dm map there would be a really more variety of team composition and build … instead focusing only to one type of game … it closes the game itself .

It would be cool to have DM versions of the current maps. Forest for example can only be the beach all the middle to point B. Idk just ideas because I like courtyard and it is nice have a different game mode.

i find cool also the fact that i don’t know if i wll have a DM match or a contest match … it make the game different and i think it creates space for more different builds and gameplays

It’s a perfectly fine map and can be fun, but it has no business being in a rotation with PUGs.

It’s like putting 10 people together for a hockey game and half don’t know how to skate…and the other half brought equipment to play baseball.

What’s the point?

The games are literally over after the first engagement in most cases because matchmaking can’t discern if people know how to play (or are spec’d properly for TDM).

Do all of you realize most conquest games are over after the first team fight?
Baddies will be bad regardless of game mode

robertul.3679:

A different game mode requires a different queue.

Indeed. They could take Courtyard, slightly rework a few other maps and make a murder-ball mode with a seperate queue.

I believe they are trying to avoid fragmenting the PvP player base and further diluting it to the point queue times become obscene. This is why I suspect you have no new modes.

If you lose becouse your oppenent is stronger you lose also in a conquest map , having a different kind of game for me is better, it is in any case a bigger opportunity to have fun. I really don’ understand which is the problem in maintaining it also in ranked queue. It is something different …

PierPiero.9142:

If you lose becouse your oppenent is stronger you lose also in a conquest map , having a different kind of game for me is better, it is in any case a bigger opportunity to have fun. I really don’ understand which is the problem in maintaining it also in ranked queue. It is something different …

Lost 500 – 0 in CY. Next match was against same team but in conquest. We won.

Until they implement the ability to save different builds so you can easily switch between them, I can’t agree with CY being in the same queue as conquest maps. Even then it should be in a different queue.

Arcadio.6875:

Until they implement the ability to save different builds so you can easily switch between them, I can’t agree with CY being in the same queue as conquest maps. Even then it should be in a different queue.

No one is forcing you to spec only for conquest mode, you could use a balanced build.

sminkiottone.6972:

Arcadio.6875:

Until they implement the ability to save different builds so you can easily switch between them, I can’t agree with CY being in the same queue as conquest maps. Even then it should be in a different queue.

No one is forcing you to spec only for conquest mode, you could use a balanced build.

A “balanced” build wouldn’t be better at conquest than a build specifically designed for conquest. Likewise, it wouldn’t be better at tdm than one designed for that either. It would be preferable to have two builds for two very different content. Without a way to save builds, it is a hassle to switch to a tdm build in the minute upon learning your next match is tdm and not conquest.

A build balanced for both also doesn’t make sense since most of your matches will be conquest.

Every single stupid match on this map is 500-0 it’s just flat out horrible.

I’m not saying TDM map belongs in the que with the other ranked maps….but consider this.

I managed to get 10 people from who used to play the game (back in the first 6 months before we saw no desperately needed changes to SPVP and when the devs didn’t say 1 word in this forum the entire time so we figured it was dead) to show back up ENTIRELY cause they saw a TDM map…they were all excited as was I……but because the mode didn’t have ranked, it was considered a joke map….only in hot join and quickly grew unpopular. Its not fun to play the mode that doesn’t have a competitive scene or built in MMR match making.

So…we all quit and haven’t played since. Team death match is the most popular game mode in any game. It grinds down the stratetgy simply to kill the other team, which is usually all anyone wants to do….dive into an orgy of slaughter against their enemies. It has different strategic depth built around combat alone….is it the most ideal? NO I’d probably want something with strategic depth like heroes of the storm, but I’d still take TDM over king of the hill type maps…….which btw, conquest in the many other games I play, is the least played mode in that game. It would be no different here had they put in other options from the beginning.

The thing with Courtyard is that it’s a straight up fight. Someone finally goes down and the survivors are shorthanded so it snowballs into a wipe. We’re so trained by Conquest to repop and get back in that all you do is feed the meatgrinder.

What should happen, to prevent the 500-0’s, is that the shorthanded team try to back off until they get back to full strength. Not that the other team is going to let them. At its worst, the team should fully reinforce in the spawn area to try the 5 on 5 again. Otherwise, it’s all going downhill after it’s been decided in the opening clash.

Arcadio.6875:

sminkiottone.6972:

Arcadio.6875:

Until they implement the ability to save different builds so you can easily switch between them, I can’t agree with CY being in the same queue as conquest maps. Even then it should be in a different queue.

No one is forcing you to spec only for conquest mode, you could use a balanced build.

A “balanced” build wouldn’t be better at conquest than a build specifically designed for conquest. Likewise, it wouldn’t be better at tdm than one designed for that either. It would be preferable to have two builds for two very different content. Without a way to save builds, it is a hassle to switch to a tdm build in the minute upon learning your next match is tdm and not conquest.

A build balanced for both also doesn’t make sense since most of your matches will be conquest.

IMO players shouldn’t be allowed to change build once they start the Q to play ranked matches.

Right now theres only 1 TDM map, but what if in the future there will be more? and maybe even more game modes like capture the flag or king of the hill? at that point you will need to know how to balance your party builds/tactics to compete in every possible scenario and not just conquest.

The problem with Courtyard isn’t Deathmatch. There has been threads after threads that people wanted deathmatch.

The problem is the implementation.

• Deathmatch should have been annihilation. Die once, no respawn.
• Reduce the size to 2v2 and 3v3. 5v5 is just too zergy.

runeblade.7514:

The problem with Courtyard isn’t Deathmatch. There has been threads after threads that people wanted deathmatch.

The problem is the implementation.

• Deathmatch should have been annihilation. Die once, no respawn.
• Reduce the size to 2v2 and 3v3. 5v5 is just too zergy.

I agree it should be reduced to allow smaller teams and have it’s own ranked mode. It should/could not be die once/no respawn. Much like it is not that way in more recent games with TDM. Why? Because of ultimates. If you die one no respawn…the game becomes run in pop your ult see who wins. Which is rather boring…..they would have to disable ultimates, which they’re not going to do.

(if they were willing to disable ultimates the way WoW disables stronger/longer dd abilities in death match…then maybe we’d have something)

You get 2 mins to respec before start. i don’t see how build is a problem, but presets are nice to have for lazy people.

runeblade.7514:

The problem with Courtyard isn’t Deathmatch. There has been threads after threads that people wanted deathmatch.

The problem is the implementation.

• Deathmatch should have been annihilation. Die once, no respawn.
• Reduce the size to 2v2 and 3v3. 5v5 is just too zergy.

You’ve hit on why it worked well in GW1, but has problems with the current system.

GW1 had limited resurrects from res sickness and the res utility. It also allowed matches to end earlier than the timer, so players didn’t need to get farmed under the current system.

Still TDM game mode along with other modes should have been in day1. Have the devs forgotten or ever played their predecessor? It just seems weird to have old PvP problems when many of those issues were resolved years ago.

You could do lots of things to make it work.

1. Restrict ultimates. (not ideal I know, but would help)
2. Allow losing team bonus points for killing players who have not died. (heroes of the storm uses this.
3. Remove Rally from TDM. (it by far causes things to drag out and snowball more than anything)
4. Lower the points needed to win.
5. other things……. (The community is smart and vast…I’m sure they could think of other answers that I have not just off my experience In playing other games.)

There are lots of angles to attack the problems with arena that are very simple, I just hope it doesn’t take arenanet another 2 years to test them before they realize how easy it was to fix.

#BoycottCourtyard.

Arenanet wants to hold you hostage to test it’s terrible map,
Say No, Unranked or GTFO.
Throw the game; This Kills matchmaking.

Arenanet can easily hot patch it out of ranked, it’s done completely serverside with no downtime but they choose not to.

I’m ambivalent about it.

On the one hand, we NEED a TDM mode. OTOH, with the amount of damage in this game, I think a party size of 2 or 3 would be best for it, with 4 as the absolute max. 5 is overkill, you can focus someone down in 0.5" flat, and once one team is a man down it’s an utter blowout, they get rolled and it’s very hard to come back from it. So, in that sense, I don’t think Courtyard’s inclusion in the 5v5 queue works.

But on the positive side, it means that people with cheesy builds like bunker engis that are just designed to sit on a point and not do anything else are automatically at a disadvantage at Courtyard, so maybe the mere possibility that it might come up is a positive effect on the meta?

Zinwrath.2049:

runeblade.7514:

The problem with Courtyard isn’t Deathmatch. There has been threads after threads that people wanted deathmatch.

The problem is the implementation.

• Deathmatch should have been annihilation. Die once, no respawn.
• Reduce the size to 2v2 and 3v3. 5v5 is just too zergy.

I agree it should be reduced to allow smaller teams and have it’s own ranked mode. It should/could not be die once/no respawn. Much like it is not that way in more recent games with TDM. Why? Because of ultimates. If you die one no respawn…the game becomes run in pop your ult see who wins. Which is rather boring…..they would have to disable ultimates, which they’re not going to do.

(if they were willing to disable ultimates the way WoW disables stronger/longer dd abilities in death match…then maybe we’d have something)

Usually, when a Necro pops a Lich form, I usually just kite or run away for 20 seconds and then they wasted their Elite. Then I come back. There is no rush to kill them.

The other elites: Transform Moa, Supply Crate are dodgable. Others are mostly defensive.

I play 2v2 and 3v3. Rarely does that tactics work.

Watch some 2v2, 3v3. I haven’t seen any or much that pops elites right before the fighting starts.

I understand that there will be no troll maps aka courtyard/skyhammer in the upcoming season map pool, but what’s the justification behind having those maps in the ranked queue right now?

Nitesky.6427:

I understand that there will be no troll maps aka courtyard/skyhammer in the upcoming season map pool, but what’s the justification behind having those maps in the ranked queue right now?

Because you don’t have to play it. Don’t vote for Skyhammer or court yard if you hate it.

runeblade.7514:

Nitesky.6427:

I understand that there will be no troll maps aka courtyard/skyhammer in the upcoming season map pool, but what’s the justification behind having those maps in the ranked queue right now?

Because you don’t have to play it. Don’t vote for Skyhammer or court yard if you hate it.

Yeah we can do that but then you also have the trolls, that no matter what will allways vote for that map to upset ppl. Like I literally had a guy just saying that in map chat when Courtyard got choosed.

Map is not made for 5 v 5 and that was proved right at it’s realease, why the hell did this made to ranked? ALONG WITH CONTEST WHERE BUILDS DON’T EVEN MATCH (except for maybe Staff Ele).

Remove this from ranked. Ranks don’t atter right now but wins still give archivements, and ppl still want an even chance to win. This does not give that and never will.

manveruppd.7601:

I think a party size of 2 or 3 would be best for it, with 4 as the absolute max. 5 is overkill

I’ve been meaning to bring up match team size recently.

A reduction in team size will equate to faster queue times. In GW1 the team size was capped at 4. When GW2 initially released there was enough fodder to fill the 5 man teams, which the maps were designed around. Now with Courtyard, and perhaps a few repurposed maps you could go with a smaller team cap. The problem is this should be a seperate queue/mode. The problem with that is it would further fragment the queue pool potential. This is also why I believe the joined SoloQ and TeamQ, to reduce queue time and unfragment the PvP player base.

Which way do we go…….

runeblade.7514:

Because you don’t have to play it. Don’t vote for Skyhammer or court yard if you hate it.

That’s not true. Even if only 1 out of 10 players votes Skyhammer, you can still end up playing that map in the current system.

Nitesky.6427:

runeblade.7514:

Because you don’t have to play it. Don’t vote for Skyhammer or court yard if you hate it.

That’s not true. Even if only 1 out of 10 players votes Skyhammer, you can still end up playing that map in the current system.

True but its a one in 10 chance htat map will be picked. And the voting system is designed around hte concept of people being able to play the maps they want to. There are people out there that enjoy courtyard and skyhammer but would never have the chance of playing them without the voting system except on custom arenas. And I can understand why they wouldn’t want to go THERE because of how easy it is to imbalance them and cheat the system to switch to team the winning team at will.

Giving them a one in ten chance of getting there favorite map doesn’t seem like the end of the world.

Just comprimize some good ideas from dis thread:

-no elite
-no downstate
-maybe reduce to 3on3 (but with a balanced setup not necessary imo)
-loser bonus (maybe all stat raise?)
-massive 0-500 due spawn camping

Here are some features which might could fix it:

>better spawn points through warps
If a team have a chance to spawn in an area without tons of aoe pre-casts there might be a chance for a comeback. Just install 2 warps at the bases which ports you to some location which is farer away

>emergency call (EC)
This basicly is a feature which appeared in ragnarok online for the first time (afaik).
Basics of this system:
The leader of the guild (in that case the party leader) is casting a skill which teleports all online members directly onto his position. When having some fights with other guilds and some keyclasses were killed (which would make a win impossible) the leader can move to a safe position and cast this skill. Ofc it can be interrupted. Usally 5min cooldown but I would recomment 3-4mins here. In their professional scene the possibility to change the leader is given but not during woe (war of emperium; that enviroment where this is skill only is working).
http://ratemyserver.net/skill_db.php?skid=10013&small=1&back=1
You could enable some vote of the leader before the round starts. So we finally really would have a use of these 2mins waiting time. I see huge problems with auto-awarding that state in PUG groups.

>pick ups
Games like unreal tournament found a completely different way to bring structure into the game, even in death matches, by implementing some booster pick ups, like improved armor or something.
So the players have a clear routine of this map and dont only being forced to randomly wander around searching for opponents. Those features creating temporarly choke points.
You already have them on the temple map and I really wonder why you never expected to implement them on a map which really really would need things like that.

The TDM map actually is nothing but a rough shell without any individual setting. And this is exactly why Im sitting every round at the base yelling out my protest against it. lol

exii.8913:

Snip

I gotta say the idea of a warp sounds good. If anyone here has ever played planetside two spawn camping is a matter of course. One of the best ways to break them unless you are MASSIVELY outnumbered is to use hte teleporter in almost every spawn room to go to a secondary shielded area where you can work to break the spawncamp from behind. Alot of clutch wins are made by using these. And maybe itl encourage people not to idiotically slam themselves into a murder ball when they dont have a single heavy

SPREAD OUT PEOPLE. The murder ball isnt exactly fast. Take some swiftness and kite the kittens. If they dont split up they can chase one at a time. Snipe the guy in hte back of the ball then scatter again. Squishy builds are usually bursty. USE THAT instead of trying to 5v5 a group of warriors and guardians like a bunch of morons.

I love the courtyard

I think all here agree, Courtyard itself isn’t the problem. It is definitely the implementation into conquest queue. Agreed as well that more maps for TDM would be fun. Capture the flag type of game (a more fleshed out Spirit Watch) would be awesome as well! Just needs separate a separate queue, as I’d probably play different toons for each game mode.

The problem with the deathmatch the way it is at the moment is that it is VERY easy to funnel teams into fights. Ideally, there should be a way so that if you die you get wiped and have to respawn with you WHOLE TEAM. That way, funneling into death is dissuaded (and hopefully transfers over into conquest games) while better team play and coordination is highlighted. However, this brings up the age old question…. what if the other team just runs 5 perma stealth thieves, kills someone then runs around for 15 minutes?