Guild Wars 2

Normally I love PvP. Its just this game alone that I cannot bring myself to care about it. Couldn’t figure it out for a long time. And the main reason the game lacks true long term appeal (I come back for as long as I can stand the PvE, then take along break, I played since early access/day1).

Finally figured why I really can’t stand PvP here.

This is an (MMO)RPG. For me, the RPG is a key portion of it. When I enter the mists I am stripped of my character. I am given equipment, last time I was in there I didn’t even have armor, exactly, just stats… level is meaningless…in a sense all story is gone.

Gear is still a part of the story for me, something that has shaped my character to make him or her what they are. Further, PvP is not a mini game to be taken out of context of the RPG. It should be woven alongside the story as seamlessly as possible.

That said, can we have a mirror of the sPvP system (without rewards – just like the maps and queuing ability) but leave our characters as is? And come up with some story reason? Maybe with HoT?

Before you say it, I’d like WvW…if it wasn’t so much PvE or zerging. And yeah, I do currently roam a bit and solo camps and such. But its pretty meh. Takes forever to get much action.

PS also before you say anything, I don’t even have ascended weapons or armor. Not looking for advantages. All my 80s are in full exotics except for the jewelry.

If you want to play PVP with your PVE Gear, and all you have is Exotics, then what difference would it be? Everyone else would only pvp at 80, with exotic equipment, so it would be exactly the same. Except of course if you are vs someone with Ascended equipment, which would have an advantage.

The pvp system in this game is by far the best I’ve encountered in a MMO. Nothing is worst than losing to a bad player just because he has the best gear.

This should be in the PvP forums, mate.

Have you been in PvP anytime in the last 6 months or so? You keep the look of your gear. You keep your weapons. So basically what you’re asking for we’ve had for a long time.

The only things that change (amulets, runes, sigils, racial skills and such) are to keep everyone on an equal footing.

Darkalons.1764:

If you want to play PVP with your PVE Gear, and all you have is Exotics, then what difference would it be? Everyone else would only pvp at 80, with exotic equipment, so it would be exactly the same. Except of course if you are vs someone with Ascended equipment, which would have an advantage.

The pvp system in this game is by far the best I’ve encountered in a MMO. Nothing is worst than losing to a bad player just because he has the best gear.

That’s the point. Its an RPG its about over coming adversitiy. My actions are a part of the story of my character. And I don’t mean Living Story or Roleplaying like you’d immediately think of. The point is I earned that exotic equipment. Doesnt matter if only people in ascended queued for it. It’d still 10x more fun than sPvP.

Also not asking to change sPvP. I’d like a mirror version added. Shoot, even just a 3v3 thing arena straight up deathmatch.

I dunno maybe its just me. But I doubt it. Even if most people don’t realize it I think they feel like PvP is too artificial.

Also if gear doesn’t matter why do we level at all or pick up gear at all in PvE…….it does matter whether you want to admit it or not. Gear becomes the soul of your character and when you strip gear off the character in PvP you strip the soul from PvP as well.

First of all, OP, even in Guild Wars 1, a game known for PvP, skills even worked differently in PvP. And there were PvE skills you couldn’t use at all in PvP that were part of my regular PvE rotation.

The idea is that PvP is supposed to be a competition. That is to say, a fair and equal game. So things have to change to make it fair.

If I were RPing my character, and I knew I had to go into a special place in the mists to prove myself to the gods, or to earn honor for my people, I might well think that there were certain limitations set by those who created those arenas to test me.

Just as in the open world and story there are times when I have to use another weapon in a personal story.

As a person who immerses myself in character, I understand the SPVP arena is not in the physical world and rules might be different there. It’s perfectly within the character of the game I play.

Mightybird.6034:

Also if gear doesn’t matter why do we level at all or pick up gear at all in PvE…….it does matter whether you want to admit it or not. Gear becomes the soul of your character and when you strip gear off the character in PvP you strip the soul from PvP as well.

You gain level and gear in PvE to do PvE content and by extention WvW, having PvE gear effect PvP would make it less about skill and knowing the classes and simply down to having the “best” gear to win.

Gear is just stats and the PvP amulets give you equal if not better stats for PvP content so i really don’t see the issue. You cant argue that its about your cosmetic look since that is carried over from the PvE gear your wearing.

The very base concept of GW2 is not locking content behind grinding.

PvP with regular gear would require massive grinding because you’d need top tier equip in order to compete.

Changing build would be absurdly punishing, as would be going into pvp with another character.

OP have you ever played C9/Vindictus?? Great pvp,grinding will create tears out of a desert,grinding is not hardcore it’s boring repeating mechanic replace it with content and social interaction focus more on MMO then RPG . What role do you chose from? This is not sandbox, are you villain,hero,trader,merchant?? RPG has more meaning then simple gearing you can upgrade characters in other ways.

Mightybird.6034:

Normally I love PvP. Its just this game alone that I cannot bring myself to care about it. Couldn’t figure it out for a long time. And the main reason the game lacks true long term appeal (I come back for as long as I can stand the PvE, then take along break, I played since early access/day1).

Finally figured why I really can’t stand PvP here.

This is an (MMO)RPG. For me, the RPG is a key portion of it. When I enter the mists I am stripped of my character. I am given equipment, last time I was in there I didn’t even have armor, exactly, just stats… level is meaningless…in a sense all story is gone.

Gear is still a part of the story for me, something that has shaped my character to make him or her what they are. Further, PvP is not a mini game to be taken out of context of the RPG. It should be woven alongside the story as seamlessly as possible.

That said, can we have a mirror of the sPvP system (without rewards – just like the maps and queuing ability) but leave our characters as is? And come up with some story reason? Maybe with HoT?

Before you say it, I’d like WvW…if it wasn’t so much PvE or zerging. And yeah, I do currently roam a bit and solo camps and such. But its pretty meh. Takes forever to get much action.

PS also before you say anything, I don’t even have ascended weapons or armor. Not looking for advantages. All my 80s are in full exotics except for the jewelry.

I would like to have in spvp the customization that is available in wvw. Everyone having all options available (or most of them) but leting you change every single piece of gear instead of a generic amulet.

You know what is tons of fun? Losing because you took a break and are behind the gear curve. I think this PvP system is pretty spot on in terms of design/rewards. My main complaint is the matchmaking/balance but I love how PvP functions. I can make a level 20 character and PvP with out having to grind all the way to 80, I don’t have to go unlock skills or “earn” my gear behind weekly caps.

Right now if someone wants to PvP they can. Nothing stops them, what you want is to exclude people because of “story”?

NinjaSonic.1392:

I think this PvP system is pretty spot on in terms of design/rewards.

The way I feel, and I think many others do as well, is that pvp rewards were only introduced in an effort to transition people out of pvp. Before the wardrobe merges and tome of knowledge spam you would just have the level 1 or 2 character that you made on release and just be stuck there. Now all of a sudden you have sets of exotic equipment and a level 80, so you can feel encouraged to leave the mists and never come back.

That’s better than what pvp had (only account bound dyes) but it’s also not really what a pvper would want. A pvper would want an exclusive reward, but then you’d just get pvers complaining about that because they would “feel like [they] HAVE to pvp” in order to acquire it so anet would never actually do that. As it is, there are 3 exclusive armor sets from the old pvp system and THERE ARE STILL threads on reddit complaining about it every week.

I was unbelievably thankful for the fact that GW2’s organized/instanced PvP arenas were independent of level/gear. A place you can go with any character you create and jump into the action without feeling like you’re 100 hours behind and losing because of it.

MMORPGs provide a style of gameplay that other games just don’t have. Every MMO that releases with PvP that is extremely gear/grind dependent makes me weep. SW:ToR, Age of Conan, TERA, WoW (though even they cut it down fairly dramatically from what I could tell), ArcheAge. All of them. All of them ruining the spirit of competition and the thrill of a fight where you don’t have to worry about the guy who has done nothing but grind to rob you of your opportunity for a good game.

Except GW2.

They let you look identical to your character. You can rune/itemize/trait identically to PvE/WvW (with the exception of some of the runes that I think shouldn’t exist anyway, like Perplexity). Why can’t you carry your immersion with you and let some of us appreciate the PvP experience oasis amid the desert of vacuous, grind-based competition.

Please?

Can we have this one?

Mightybird.6034:

Also if gear doesn’t matter why do we level at all or pick up gear at all in PvE…….it does matter whether you want to admit it or not. Gear becomes the soul of your character and when you strip gear off the character in PvP you strip the soul from PvP as well.

You seem to exhibit a severe case of the Diku MUD disease. Luckily there’s a simple cure for the Skinner Box, and it’s realizing that gear-driven vertical progression is only one form of RPG progression, and there are many other models that are quite meaningful and valid. In GW2 PvP currently, we have both horizontal and vertical, the former being account-wide unlocks of skins and other assorted goodies, the latter being personal growth. And by personal I don’t mean +5 on you Sword of Rice Grinding but actually becoming a better player.

There are maaaaany other MMORPGs that do gear-driven progression very well. If you miss that, feel free to play one of those. GW2 PvP still needs a lot of work from Anet in terms of incentive and infrastructure, but gear grinding is not a solution. Introducing it would be a kittenup of SWG:NGE proportions.

also story progression in the mists? the msits are practicly hooked out of any historical event from GW2. heck the so called mist wars should normaly provide an endless amount of soldiers against the dragons. The mists are a world on its own nothing that happens there is relevant in PvE story. Even fractals are linked out of story since its a never ending loop, lore wise. We don´t even know if the dessa in there is even the real one or jsut a shadow of the dessa that once was.
Even in gw1 the msit stuff barly had anything to do with the story in those games.

Man I love the way GW2 deals with pvp. Knowing that I lost because I played worse than the other guy instead of wondering if I lost because the guy had best gear than me couldn’t be better. Another thing, when I start a new char, I can try lots of different things without spending a lot of time to get money, then buy equipment and realize that setup just doesn’t work well. I tried to play a little of WoW with some friends of mine, but the gear grinding (and monthly fee) kept me away of reaching good pvp games. I was always thinking: I need better gear; instead of thinking: I need to learn how to play this class.

I think that guys who want unbalanced battles because of gear don’t wanna learn how to play correctly, and wanna spend all their time getting better gear, and then feel good because he killed a guy who didn’t have good equipment. Something like, the guy who plays more time, win, not the more talented.

WTF do you guys want? The OP stats you have in WvW right!?

There is a reason the amulets come with a set amount of stats – BALANCE

3k armor 2k power 25k hp etc is NOT balanced and does not belong in competitive PvP

WvW is there for those who need statistical advantages

Narkodx.1472:

WTF do you guys want? The OP stats you have in WvW right!?

There is a reason the amulets come with a set amount of stats – BALANCE

3k armor 2k power 25k hp etc is NOT balanced and does not belong in competitive PvP

WvW is there for those who need statistical advantages

mbh.8301:

NinjaSonic.1392:

I think this PvP system is pretty spot on in terms of design/rewards.

The way I feel, and I think many others do as well, is that pvp rewards were only introduced in an effort to transition people out of pvp. Before the wardrobe merges and tome of knowledge spam you would just have the level 1 or 2 character that you made on release and just be stuck there. Now all of a sudden you have sets of exotic equipment and a level 80, so you can feel encouraged to leave the mists and never come back.

That’s better than what pvp had (only account bound dyes) but it’s also not really what a pvper would want. A pvper would want an exclusive reward, but then you’d just get pvers complaining about that because they would “feel like [they] HAVE to pvp” in order to acquire it so anet would never actually do that. As it is, there are 3 exclusive armor sets from the old pvp system and THERE ARE STILL threads on reddit complaining about it every week.

I don’t really see how it encouraged people to leave. I think they were a little late on fixing how poor PvP rewards are but the new rewards encourage me to PvP more. I was a PvX player but played quite a bit of PvP and it was just depressing playing for next to nothing. Now I can play PvP and not feel like I’m missing out because I can still get gear/levels/etc from PvP.

NinjaSonic.1392:

I don’t really see how it encouraged people to leave. I think they were a little late on fixing how poor PvP rewards are but the new rewards encourage me to PvP more. I was a PvX player but played quite a bit of PvP and it was just depressing playing for next to nothing. Now I can play PvP and not feel like I’m missing out because I can still get gear/levels/etc from PvP.

You like it because you were never a pure pvp player. I don’t think there’s any of those left anymore, but those are the people I was talking about. You know, the ones with nothing higher than level 10. As one of those players, all this system does is remove barriers to pve/wvw content that you couldn’t experience before since you were level 10.

As a PvX it’s easy to love this system because it gives you pve rewards – things that you’re going to use in your other gameplay.

Not all stories need to be about players fighting players mate. You’re wanting PvP to mean something in PvE?
The mindset of a PvE player… figures.

True PvP players could care less about some PvP “Lore”. It’s about how balanced the system is. It’s why the game is the way it is. And we’re all thankful for it

As for gear, look in your wardrobe. It’s all still there.

mbh.8301:

NinjaSonic.1392:

I don’t really see how it encouraged people to leave. I think they were a little late on fixing how poor PvP rewards are but the new rewards encourage me to PvP more. I was a PvX player but played quite a bit of PvP and it was just depressing playing for next to nothing. Now I can play PvP and not feel like I’m missing out because I can still get gear/levels/etc from PvP.

You like it because you were never a pure pvp player. I don’t think there’s any of those left anymore, but those are the people I was talking about. You know, the ones with nothing higher than level 10. As one of those players, all this system does is remove barriers to pve/wvw content that you couldn’t experience before since you were level 10.

As a PvX it’s easy to love this system because it gives you pve rewards – things that you’re going to use in your other gameplay.

I don’t get how it hurts pure PvP players? If literally all you did was PvP before, you can still do that. You’re getting more things that allow you to PvE/WvW if you choose to, but nothing forces you to. They remove barriers and you’re making it sound like it’s a bad thing. PvP players can make gold now, can actually level a character to 80 if they want to but nothing is forcing you.

All the things you listed are the reasons I hate PvP in other games, like WoW…. Having the best gear can win you the game, not skills. In this game however, it is all about skill and building your character right. You keep your weapons, skins etc in PvP. You can even choose to run the same build you use in PvE if you want too! I for one would quit this game on the day if they ever were to introduce PvE gear in PvP.

PvP should be about skill, not gear. You farm your gear in PvE to use it, you guessed it, in PvE, and WvW if you want too. The fact that you can so easily change builds in PvP is one of the reasons it is so good. You can easily try out new stuff and learn other professions, without having to go through a lengthy leveling process.

Also, remember that there are many people that can’t stand PvE! These guys only chose this game because they don’t need to PvE to get to the PvP part of the game – which is awesome!

This is why its PvP. If you want to roll with your junk, play WvW.

Tamasan.6457:

Have you been in PvP anytime in the last 6 months or so? You keep the look of your gear. You keep your weapons.

^This.
Your character skill has the equipment style he/she got.

For the RP: Your character is still the same, he/she just entered a strange portal to the mists for whatever reason you want it to be. Maybe he things that that he can that way influence the history of the battle of kyhlo. Maybe he just want’s to gain experience with combat; maybe it is some kind of honor for him like being a gladiator.

For the stats: If all players where not on the same level, there would not be a fair pvp. We need all players to start with the same options.
To not have to farm a special equipment peace (f.e. a new amulet from a high level raid) to get an advantage in pvp is the best part of gw2 (right next to the combat system).

NinjaSonic.1392:

I don’t get how it hurts pure PvP players? If literally all you did was PvP before, you can still do that. You’re getting more things that allow you to PvE/WvW if you choose to, but nothing forces you to. They remove barriers and you’re making it sound like it’s a bad thing. PvP players can make gold now, can actually level a character to 80 if they want to but nothing is forcing you.

See, this is what I said you were going to say. Your position is not very empathetic because you neglect to consider what it is that a PvP player wants above all else. Recognition. Exlusive SOMETHING. Exlusive armor? Exlusive dyes? Exclusive weapons? PvE has those things but people still complain that PvP has something that they want and that they feel “forced” to PvP.

The new system is nice and all, but it caters only to people who were PvX in the first place. PvErs resent it, and PvPers have stacks of loot boxes sitting around for when they finally go through the chore of opening them under ideal magic find circumstances or just destroy that stuff altogether.

mbh.8301:

NinjaSonic.1392:

I don’t get how it hurts pure PvP players? If literally all you did was PvP before, you can still do that. You’re getting more things that allow you to PvE/WvW if you choose to, but nothing forces you to. They remove barriers and you’re making it sound like it’s a bad thing. PvP players can make gold now, can actually level a character to 80 if they want to but nothing is forcing you.

See, this is what I said you were going to say. Your position is not very empathetic because you neglect to consider what it is that a PvP player wants above all else. Recognition. Exlusive SOMETHING. Exlusive armor? Exlusive dyes? Exclusive weapons? PvE has those things but people still complain that PvP has something that they want and that they feel “forced” to PvP.

I really don’t think that you can speak for all players with that statement. I certainly don’t play PvP for recognition; I play it to watch other players writhe in agony as I stomp their character. In fact, recognition above all else seems rather vain. It would probably be cool if they added purely cosmetic rewards through PvP, but anything beyond that would be completely out of GW2’s mantra for how PvP ought to be, and you’re in the excruciatingly tiny minority that might believe otherwise. And you really can get nearly all the skins and items you could in PvE through PvP, or at least the gold to buy what you can’t, so that’s not really a reason.

Recognition really isn’t what GW2 PvP is about. Like many of the other people have already stated, if you want that, then there are plenty of other games you could play that provide you with that experience. GW2 is unique in that it does not force this gear grind on sPvP players. Your skill is your definition, your clothing is your personalization, and your rewards are really not bad.

I also don’t play for recognition. I play for the challenge and the competitive spirit. I’m usually touch-and-go in sPvP because the Conquest game mode isn’t as fulfilling for me, nor as exciting, as roaming in WvW and finding a variety of encounters. I’m looking forward to Stronghold as I think it sounds much more engaging and interesting.

See the problem isn’t the new reward system, it’s the lack of a tournament structure or anything competitive. The “exclusive” PvP skins weren’t very nice, simply special because they could only be obtained in PvP. Now there is Glorious armor which doesn’t look half bad and is exclusive to PvP. I agree maybe more unique skins to PvP wouldn’t be bad but I don’t know any fulltime PvPer upset with the changes. One person on my friends list mentioned he actually opens bags now as opposed to the old reward chest, he also has more than 100g which he never had before playing PvP full time.

Yes PvP rewards could be expanded upon but I really don’t think it’s in anyway “worse” than it was before.

Let me put your words in simple terms:

You want to easily roll over noobs without effort by beating them with better gears because that’s what you’re doing in other MMO.
(If you want cosmetic, it’s already there, your armor/ weapon skins are bound to you even in PVP, so that’s clearly not your issue.)

If that’s what you like, I suggest you go to EotM. There’re countless worst type of players for you to one shot them.

mbh.8301:

NinjaSonic.1392:

I don’t get how it hurts pure PvP players? If literally all you did was PvP before, you can still do that. You’re getting more things that allow you to PvE/WvW if you choose to, but nothing forces you to. They remove barriers and you’re making it sound like it’s a bad thing. PvP players can make gold now, can actually level a character to 80 if they want to but nothing is forcing you.

See, this is what I said you were going to say. Your position is not very empathetic because you neglect to consider what it is that a PvP player wants above all else.

You don’t represent all pvp players.
Stop it.
Just stop.

I think that the best test of any kind of character is being able to fight and do well on equalized footing.

You keep your appearance, but your armor/weaps cannot carry you.

That’s closer to RP than anything. Don’t the unskilled bruiser types usually lose?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I think that the best test of any kind of character is being able to fight and do well on equalized footing.

You keep your appearance, but your armor/weaps cannot carry you.

That’s closer to RP than anything. Don’t the unskilled bruiser types usually lose?

What you said is true but the type that want stuff like this don’t want fairness. They want their gear grind to matter, they ascended armor.

They are also in the same class of players that only prefer open world PvP because they can hide and wait for someone to be weaken before engaging them in combat.

Gear=/= Skill, No matter what. The Structured PvP in this game caters to this ideal (except for WvW. You’ll get squished if you tried roaming while Uplevel) This is why I like the PvP in this game.

OP. I don’t know why you’re flustered over the fact that you can’t use your own gear in PvP. It only matters as long as you PvE. If it really matters to you. Go do WvW.