Guild Wars 2

In the old bunker meta rotations were 100% more important and would punish rotational errors, and getting a kill actually meant something.Meanwhile this meta is way more forgiving because of the snowball potential of all the insane dps going around,
While I am certain that on a mechanical skill level it seemed like everyone was mashing the keyboard, it required more awareness and knowledge of the conquest game mode than this. It just feels much easier than the old meta and more catered to spectators and casuals such as +1s team fights etc than crazy damage.While I do agree that certain builds were overturned, removing the entire option of viable bunkers was certainly a bad idea. Who misses it? or am i the only one

I miss the metas before HoT. I don’t miss the bunker meta just passed.

As a thief main, I have not noticed any difference in the dmg because everything bloody stung for me anyway. People had it easy playing the bunkers and sometimes no 1 needed to even rotate at all. I guess this is what happens when a big change happens and people don’t like to adapt in such a way that the dmg buff (removal of bunker aamulets) are a bit ort.

Disagree. In the bunker meta you could cap home + contest mid and throw a Druid on far and it was gg. kittened up? NP, insta rez from mesmer inc and by then you have cds ready to spam again.

With this it meta it actually promotes how teams should play/rotate:
– you get targeted and focused at mid while your teammate is standing on point? In my experience 90% of people will still kite ON POINT instead of disengaging from mid for 5sec for enemy to target someone else.
– Your bunker dies at mid? Ofc you will get snowballed, its natural since enemy team did the "hard"job of killing the bunker. Usually they do that by +1ing. Just insta leave mid, rotate to home and far and nobody else from your team will need to get snowballed.

I do agree on your point about spectators, however this combat system, skill flashiness and PvP style does not allow this game to ever become #esports so IMO spectatorship should not be one of the top concerns.

Skittledness.5106:

In the old bunker meta rotations were 100% more important and would punish rotational errors, and getting a kill actually meant something.Meanwhile this meta is way more forgiving because of the snowball potential of all the insane dps going around,

Not sure what you’re saying,.. Bunk meta completely removed all the strategy this game had…

Bunker meta was 10x more prone to snowball effects thanks to unkillable Mesmers, Eles and Revs. There was literally 0 skill involved… just stay on a point, players didn’t worry about pressure or strategical 1v2 engagments. They definitely didn’t have to worry about rotating around a zerg or out smarting the other team through backcapping and playing sides.

3 contested points for 15 minutes straight for the entirety of the game was a JOKE to watch. The meta should never come back… let it die with the Zerker Burst meta and Condi cancer meta

disagree. how is getting punished for one rotational error due to some unkilleable bunker standing on point for half of the match affecting more map awarness? if anything slowball effects were more prevalent.

Due to a lack of outright 3 v 1 face tank bunkers snowball effects are lesser. U get wiped. But tanks to the bunkers/support u cannot actually properly turn this fight around quickly enough to hold points. And if u managed to down a bunker. big chances are that another bunker is holding another node. Or u try to down the bunker but since they have so much sustain their teammates can enter and still wipe u out.

I don’t find single set chess games which rotations really were. promoting good rotational game play.

Rotations are crucial in a DPS meta, you will die fast when out rotated.

All there was to do in the Bunker Meta was to match numbers. Almost never were fights lost due to getting outnumbered by faster or better rotations – react and match numbers, EZ revive, and the fight is completely anew.

Also, the times where on Foefire, one team gets 4 kills on Graveyard in 2 minutes, but can’t decap the enemy captured point. (ORNG Vs. Car Crash).

Fights that don’t end simply rob the player’s of getting the capture point they are dominating. Incredibly deflating.

TLDR: S1 Bunker Meta is 90% rotation dependent, yes, but only because the mechanical skill dependency shrunk from 50% to 10%.

Chaith.8256:

Rotations are crucial in a DPS meta, you will die fast when out rotated.

All there was to do in the Bunker Meta was to match numbers. Almost never were fights lost due to getting outnumbered by faster or better rotations – react and match numbers, EZ revive, and the fight is completely anew.

Also, the times where on Foefire, one team gets 4 kills on Graveyard in 2 minutes, but can’t decap the enemy captured point. (ORNG Vs. Car Crash).

Fights that don’t end simply rob the player’s of getting the capture point they are dominating. Incredibly deflating.

TLDR: S1 Bunker Meta is 90% rotation dependent, yes, but only because the mechanical skill dependency shrunk from 50% to 10%.

Easy for you to talk..you’re a scrapper that can still hold vs X, can 1vs1 anyone and win the majority and basically good at being a pain in the kitten , unfortunately there are professions like ele , badly designed that have always relied on gimmicks to stay alive and as to be expected from the “designers” who came up with the concept in the first place, their idea of fixing the so called “cancerous bunker meta” was to remove that gimmick.

I can’t bare all the whiteknights who keep accusing the players for using what they must in order not to win..but to merely play the game at all; both eles and mesmers have been asking for concise buffs to the core concept for years, no weeks, no month..for years

Nobody has ever asked to hold 3-4 people on a point, nobody has ever asked to win every single fight, people have only been asking to have fun in this game, like to finally stop swinging between OP and UP

-It’s right to remove the gimmicks? yes it is
-It’s fair to remove the gimmick while not fixing the issue that created it?..No absolutely not

Supreme.3164:

Chaith.8256:

Rotations are crucial in a DPS meta, you will die fast when out rotated.

All there was to do in the Bunker Meta was to match numbers. Almost never were fights lost due to getting outnumbered by faster or better rotations – react and match numbers, EZ revive, and the fight is completely anew.

Also, the times where on Foefire, one team gets 4 kills on Graveyard in 2 minutes, but can’t decap the enemy captured point. (ORNG Vs. Car Crash).

Fights that don’t end simply rob the player’s of getting the capture point they are dominating. Incredibly deflating.

TLDR: S1 Bunker Meta is 90% rotation dependent, yes, but only because the mechanical skill dependency shrunk from 50% to 10%.

Easy for you to talk..you’re a scrapper that can still hold vs X, can 1vs1 anyone and win the majority and basically good at being a pain in the kitten , unfortunately there are professions like ele , badly designed that have always relied on gimmicks to stay alive and as to be expected from the “designers” who came up with the concept in the first place, their idea of fixing the so called “cancerous bunker meta” was to remove that gimmick.

I can’t bare all the whiteknights who keep accusing the players for using what they must in order not to win..but to merely play the game at all; both eles and mesmers have been asking for concise buffs to the core concept for years, no weeks, no month..for years

Nobody has ever asked to hold 3-4 people on a point, nobody has ever asked to win every single fight, people have only been asking to have fun in this game, like to finally stop swinging between OP and UP

-It’s right to remove the gimmicks? yes it is
-It’s fair to remove the gimmick while not fixing the issue that created it?..No absolutely not

What the hell kind of response was that, I’m not talking in the least bit about profession balance.

Profession balance is a completely separate issue from the issues I am talking about that were observed in the last Bunker Meta.

Chaith.8256:

Supreme.3164:

Chaith.8256:

Rotations are crucial in a DPS meta, you will die fast when out rotated.

All there was to do in the Bunker Meta was to match numbers. Almost never were fights lost due to getting outnumbered by faster or better rotations – react and match numbers, EZ revive, and the fight is completely anew.

Also, the times where on Foefire, one team gets 4 kills on Graveyard in 2 minutes, but can’t decap the enemy captured point. (ORNG Vs. Car Crash).

Fights that don’t end simply rob the player’s of getting the capture point they are dominating. Incredibly deflating.

TLDR: S1 Bunker Meta is 90% rotation dependent, yes, but only because the mechanical skill dependency shrunk from 50% to 10%.

Easy for you to talk..you’re a scrapper that can still hold vs X, can 1vs1 anyone and win the majority and basically good at being a pain in the kitten , unfortunately there are professions like ele , badly designed that have always relied on gimmicks to stay alive and as to be expected from the “designers” who came up with the concept in the first place, their idea of fixing the so called “cancerous bunker meta” was to remove that gimmick.

I can’t bare all the whiteknights who keep accusing the players for using what they must in order not to win..but to merely play the game at all; both eles and mesmers have been asking for concise buffs to the core concept for years, no weeks, no month..for years

Nobody has ever asked to hold 3-4 people on a point, nobody has ever asked to win every single fight, people have only been asking to have fun in this game, like to finally stop swinging between OP and UP

-It’s right to remove the gimmicks? yes it is
-It’s fair to remove the gimmick while not fixing the issue that created it?..No absolutely not

What the hell kind of response was that, I’m not talking in the least bit about profession balance.

Profession balance is a completely separate issue from the issues I am talking about that were observed in the last Bunker Meta.

Hmm it seems I have misinterpreted your message, my apologies

Rotations were way more punishing like when you lose a cap in the start of the game that’s gg whille this meta is easily snowballed back

true reason why you miss bunker meta is because you are bad

Actually some people just like to run really defensive builds and has nothing to do with skill level. I prefer a middle ground but that’s my preference.

Supreme.3164:

Chaith.8256:

Rotations are crucial in a DPS meta, you will die fast when out rotated.

All there was to do in the Bunker Meta was to match numbers. Almost never were fights lost due to getting outnumbered by faster or better rotations – react and match numbers, EZ revive, and the fight is completely anew.

Also, the times where on Foefire, one team gets 4 kills on Graveyard in 2 minutes, but can’t decap the enemy captured point. (ORNG Vs. Car Crash).

Fights that don’t end simply rob the player’s of getting the capture point they are dominating. Incredibly deflating.

TLDR: S1 Bunker Meta is 90% rotation dependent, yes, but only because the mechanical skill dependency shrunk from 50% to 10%.

Easy for you to talk..you’re a scrapper that can still hold vs X, can 1vs1 anyone and win the majority and basically good at being a pain in the kitten , unfortunately there are professions like ele , badly designed that have always relied on gimmicks to stay alive and as to be expected from the “designers” who came up with the concept in the first place, their idea of fixing the so called “cancerous bunker meta” was to remove that gimmick.

I can’t bare all the whiteknights who keep accusing the players for using what they must in order not to win..but to merely play the game at all; both eles and mesmers have been asking for concise buffs to the core concept for years, no weeks, no month..for years

Nobody has ever asked to hold 3-4 people on a point, nobody has ever asked to win every single fight, people have only been asking to have fun in this game, like to finally stop swinging between OP and UP

-It’s right to remove the gimmicks? yes it is
-It’s fair to remove the gimmick while not fixing the issue that created it?..No absolutely not

I agree 100%. Mesmers mostly as a community didnt want chronobunker as the only viable competitive build, but Anet put us in that position that playing any other build beside the bunker will be a liability for the team.

NOW because some pro players + thief/war community cried about the bunker meta, Anet decided to overnerf Mes and Ele, with no viable alternative builds.

i see no problem in running defensive builds, guardian and druid seem to be doing just fine playing defensively

the thing about people who whine about the elimination of bunker meta is that they are upset they cant win games anymore simply by staying afk at a point

Lexander.4579:

true reason why you miss bunker meta is because you are bad

thief player, hahaha…

i didnt like the bunker chorno meta (and i play mesmer)
i also dont like the power creep meta (and i play thief)

i like to see diversity and thats what pvp lack of. everyone run the same build and same composition

to overcome this you must have some counter to the counter

like thief should counter the bunker meta. than no nerf would have needed to the chorno line.
druid should probably get little but nerf to dmg over sustain same as scrapper so other could counter them

necro counter the boons spamming but vulnerable to mesmer (or should be)
etc…

this way we could have much more interesting composition rotation and game play without leaving the mesmer , ele far back (or thief and warrior the last session)

OP may just be due to playing unranked. Solo queuing in unranked after having played a full season of ranked is really frustrating. You end up paired with 4 DPS players, often at least 2 of them being thieves and people just fight off points, never defend or watch over their caps, go for beast leaving you outnumbered on the points, etc… So it does appear less strategical.

But otherwise, the fact that you can kill enemies in a shorter amount of time reinforces the importance of rotating, not the other way around like OP suggests.

Skittledness.5106:

In the old bunker meta rotations were 100% more important and would punish rotational errors, and getting a kill actually meant something.

I kinda disagree with this. In the bunker meta there was one rotation that was clearly optimal: Send bunkers to points, stall. The revenants had the job of trying to kill and were the only real ones rotating. It was boring to play and boring to watch for me. Getting a kill back then only resulted in a capture if the bunker couldn’t hold out for 30s, which happened a lot. Getting a cap however pretty much meant game over because nestling one of those away from a bunker wasn’t something that happened quickly.

Now rotations are vital, more than ever, and they’re quicker than ever. If your team is messing around fighting off point, you’ll lose a capture point. If one player dies in a team fight, that’s now a pivotal moment because now it’s time to scatter and regroup. Going for bonus objectives is crucial since you can no longer have a bunker stall for the game and it can sway a games favor. Having a player on a point for like a minute could be detrimental since gives thieves the upper hand when they jump in and you’re one less some where you could have one more.

The meta hasn’t been developed yet too, so I won’t say this is going to be how it goes but I do think that for the next season rotations are going to be faster and more important than they were previously. I won’t miss the bunker meta, it wasn’t fun for anyone and I enjoy a lot of the changes. Some more could be made ofc (bristleback and trueshot are big names there) but having 15min games that end in 100-30 points aren’t my idea of a good game.

Edit:
There’s also what a lot of people have been saying, which is that it’s unranked. 90% of people treat this as team deathmatch (insert codement voice here) and just go for kills, giving no thought to rotations.

rotations are boring, I prefer smart usage of skills. Not just a mechanical combination you input over and over again.

All bunkers…. not fun

All wet paper …. not fun either

All hybrids …first person to fudge up loses… still not fun

You need a little bit of all three to make the games interesting. Unfortunately we still aint there yet. Not from what I’ve seen anyway.

bunker should not be in any fast pace combat system, bunkering leads to stagnation of gameplay which isnt fun to watch or play

The most recent bunker meta sucked. The only good thing about it is that there were no thieves. On a pug team, usually a thief means a loss.

The thing is: in a way, snowballing is a strategy, and countering this strategy takes skill. Yes, thieves, DHs, and others are now valuable, because not only can you get kills easier, but you can now capitalize on them to snowball. During the bunker meta, even if you somehow completely kittened up and lost someone in a team fight, no problem: a mesmer could just portal in, hold the 2v3 for as long as it takes for the dead to return from respawn and continue indefinitely.

So, are rotations dead? Does the team with the more damage dealers win? Well, that’s somewhat true. After a patch, especially in unranked where you don’t compete for anything, people are playing bursty builds generally. But I can assure you point holders still exist. Scrappers, druids, bunker mesmers: you can have tanky builds even with the tanky amulets gone. I can’t wait for the pro league finals, where we’ll get to see if this “burst meta” really is one. Trust me, it won’t be: it will be an interesting meta, like we already had some, where you have definite roles and not everything is about damage, but where you get snowballed when you make a mistake.

Did not think they could mess up the game up anymore, but again I was proven wrong. RIP GW2 when a new game comes out. Again a major patch\upgrade kills another game. I guess people do not learn from other’s mistakes.