Guild Wars 2

Advanced class is clearly stronger than vanilla class.

Just give that advantage at WVW.

We want balanced game in pvp..

If players like the games, they will throw u money. p2w never a good ideas.

Most players have hot but I would not mind vanilla seting for private servers were you can only play with vanilla for ranked it would be 2 much of a seperation depending ofc how popular it will be maibe give 3rd choice under ranked unranked for vanilla were you can’t use elite spec

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

Again, the it’s B2P not P2W!!

No, it’s not buy to play.

It’s buy to win.

Buy to play would imply that Specialization are side-grade of core spec. Colin said hundred of time they plan to side-grade.

Actually, we all have been lied to buy something.

It’s cleary an upgrade.

So, it’s not buy to play. It’s Buy to Win. So plz everyone, use B2W in regard to that topic.

Why Making PVP P2W?

Oh, come on. Let’s not beat a dead horse.

Yes, Buy the game grant you better things.
Maps, Items, Dungeons, Specializzations and a new Class.

If you don’t buy the game why ANet have to make you able to obtain all the things that the full game grant to his owner?

Specializzations are better than old classes? Of course they are!!!!!
Is it right? YES!!!

Why? 3 reasons:

1) If I buy a game I want to use all the things I can, expecially if that things make me stronger than who don’t have the game. Do you want specializzations? Buy HoT. or the game itself, that is the same thing now.

2) the F2P mode is NOT the game!!!!!!!!!!!
You TRY the game, then CHOSE if you want to BUY it and have all the pack, or not.
it’s only a TRIAL Version of the game, Not the Full game.

3) MARKETING!!!!!!!!! MONEY!!!!!!!
Seriously, do you will ever buy that game only for a new map, plane a little and do a new raid? You will buy for the new class and the specializzations. That’s why they will Ever be Stronger than the main classes.

It’s Buy to Play.
Do you want to Try the game? Try it. Do you want to Play the game? Buy it.

Are you an old player that don’t want to spend money for the expansion like all we did? Your choice. But you’re not able to ask for any kind of QoL improvement why you’re no more playing the Full game but only an Old Version of it.

Be happy.

I agree with OP. In doing so they not only ruined f2p player’s pvp experience. They also killed build diversity for HOT players. I remember in one of the interviews before the HOT release the developer promised elite class is added to promote build diversity not killing it. I really hope they had kept their promise.

Silv.9207:

Yes, Buy the game grant you better things.
Maps, Items, Dungeons, Specializzations and a new Class.

If you don’t buy the game why ANet have to make you able to obtain all the things that the full game grant to his owner?

Specializzations are better than old classes? Of course they are!!!!!
Is it right? YES!!!

Why? 3 reasons:

1) If I buy a game I want to use all the things I can, expecially if that things make me stronger than who don’t have the game. Do you want specializzations? Buy HoT. or the game itself, that is the same thing now.

2) the F2P mode is NOT the game!!!!!!!!!!!
You TRY the game, then CHOSE if you want to BUY it and have all the pack, or not.
it’s only a TRIAL Version of the game, Not the Full game.

3) MARKETING!!!!!!!!! MONEY!!!!!!!
Seriously, do you will ever buy that game only for a new map, plane a little and do a new raid? You will buy for the new class and the specializzations. That’s why they will Ever be Stronger than the main classes.

It’s Buy to Play.
Do you want to Try the game? Try it. Do you want to Play the game? Buy it.

Are you an old player that don’t want to spend money for the expansion like all we did? Your choice. But you’re not able to ask for any kind of QoL improvement why you’re no more playing the Full game but only an Old Version of it.

Be happy.

And because Gw2 is Buy to Win, all the possibilities from the Free to play market are dead.

Hundred of Thousands of players will skip Gw2 spvp for your old MMORPG mindset.

Welcome into the world where MOBA are 10x more successful than MMORPG.

They had also to add MORE Elite Specializzations, as they said. And that, yes, would improve the build diversity.

Anyway actually there’s a lot of build diversity. I belive that only the Necromancer is forced to play condition and the guardian direct damage, all the other classes have meta or good builds for both the damage sources, sometimes mixed. And some have also other builds than dps. For example the guardian have the dps and the bunker, the mesmer have the direct and the condi, sometimes also the supporter with wells. Thief have different good builds to use like the old decapper and the new total dodge builds 8really strong to hold a point, survive for a incredible long time and inflict really good damage).

If you look only metabattle there’s few to none build diversity, if you look at what the players play there’s a lot of build diversity.

i play Necromancer and I can say that there’s different builds that really work (still counting the bottom tier of the necro in this meta). I played with the “meta” symbol build, with a Corruption build (that frequently is better to help the team, with only little lesser boon corruption and damage) and even the minion master build. more or less they have the same focus: boon corruption and +1 player (with the Mm that have better damage with lesser boon corruption, but also spam poison with minion death).

Anyway, the F2P Experience have not to be the best experience of they’re life.
They’re F2P and they Have to Know that if they Buy the game they obtain something Better than what they actually have!

Answer me: If you will be able to play at the exact same level of a player that buyed the game, how many reasons will you have to buy the game?

If you’re a F2P you can TRY the game and BUY it if you like.
If you don’t buy it, you will always play a TRIAL VERSION of the game.

Silv.9207:

They had also to add MORE Elite Specializzations, as they said. And that, yes, would improve the build diversity.

Anyway actually there’s a lot of build diversity. I belive that only the Necromancer is forced to play condition and the guardian direct damage, all the other classes have meta or good builds for both the damage sources, sometimes mixed. And some have also other builds than dps. For example the guardian have the dps and the bunker, the mesmer have the direct and the condi, sometimes also the supporter with wells. Thief have different good builds to use like the old decapper and the new total dodge builds 8really strong to hold a point, survive for a incredible long time and inflict really good damage).

If you look only metabattle there’s few to none build diversity, if you look at what the players play there’s a lot of build diversity.

i play Necromancer and I can say that there’s different builds that really work (still counting the bottom tier of the necro in this meta). I played with the “meta” symbol build, with a Corruption build (that frequently is better to help the team, with only little lesser boon corruption and damage) and even the minion master build. more or less they have the same focus: boon corruption and +1 player (with the Mm that have better damage with lesser boon corruption, but also spam poison with minion death).

Anyway, the F2P Experience have not to be the best experience of they’re life.
They’re F2P and they Have to Know that if they Buy the game they obtain something Better than what they actually have!

Answer me: If you will be able to play at the exact same level of a player that buyed the game, how many reasons will you have to buy the game?

If you’re a F2P you can TRY the game and BUY it if you like.
If you don’t buy it, you will always play a TRIAL VERSION of the game.

This pretty much … what jourdeline doesn’t get is that WoW has the best monetary system when it comes to MMO. Anet is sacrificing a lot since they are b2p not a monthly subscription based game. MOBA are slowly dying, and it 3asy to gauge by looking at the tactics Lol is using. They went from skins to chest to comma or whatever they are using these days. Most F2P players on MOBA never spend more than 40 or 30 bucks on the game.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Silv.9207:

They had also to add MORE Elite Specializzations, as they said. And that, yes, would improve the build diversity.

Anyway actually there’s a lot of build diversity. I belive that only the Necromancer is forced to play condition and the guardian direct damage, all the other classes have meta or good builds for both the damage sources, sometimes mixed. And some have also other builds than dps. For example the guardian have the dps and the bunker, the mesmer have the direct and the condi, sometimes also the supporter with wells. Thief have different good builds to use like the old decapper and the new total dodge builds 8really strong to hold a point, survive for a incredible long time and inflict really good damage).

If you look only metabattle there’s few to none build diversity, if you look at what the players play there’s a lot of build diversity.

i play Necromancer and I can say that there’s different builds that really work (still counting the bottom tier of the necro in this meta). I played with the “meta” symbol build, with a Corruption build (that frequently is better to help the team, with only little lesser boon corruption and damage) and even the minion master build. more or less they have the same focus: boon corruption and +1 player (with the Mm that have better damage with lesser boon corruption, but also spam poison with minion death).

Anyway, the F2P Experience have not to be the best experience of they’re life.
They’re F2P and they Have to Know that if they Buy the game they obtain something Better than what they actually have!

Answer me: If you will be able to play at the exact same level of a player that buyed the game, how many reasons will you have to buy the game?

If you’re a F2P you can TRY the game and BUY it if you like.
If you don’t buy it, you will always play a TRIAL VERSION of the game.

This pretty much … what jourdeline doesn’t get is that WoW has the best monetary system when it comes to MMO. Anet is sacrificing a lot since they are b2p not a monthly subscription based game. MOBA are slowly dying, and it 3asy to gauge by looking at the tactics Lol is using. They went from skins to chest to comma or whatever they are using these days. Most F2P players on MOBA never spend more than 40 or 30 bucks on the game.

What you don’t get is this:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160211006451/en/Activision-Blizzard-Announces-Fourth-Quarter-Full-Year

Generated Operating Cash Flow of $1.2 Billion in 2015 for ALL ACTIVITIONS GAMEs.

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/league-of-legends-2015-revenue/

Report: League of Legends made $1.6 billion in revenue last year

Well, LoL is Laughing out Loud right now.

Please, be serious when you speak about business model.

Great for them!!!

nerovergil.5408:

If players like the games, they will throw u money. p2w never a good ideas.

If you like the game then buy it. Problem solved. If you don’t like it, you don’t belong here.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

nerovergil.5408:

If players like the games, they will throw u money. p2w never a good ideas.

If you like the game then buy it. Problem solved. If you don’t like it, you don’t belong here.

It’s the MMORPG “mindset” and it’s why MOBA are 10x more successful than MMORPG right now.

I don’t think having to cough up 40-50 bucks every couple of years is a big deal personally and pretty far from pay to win in the sense of most MMORPGs out there you would have to spend a lot more money. I know a lot of you are 10, or at least act like it, and thats like 3 years of recess money saved up at that age but really if you add that to the tooth fairy monies you should be able to get HoT. Last resort steal Mom or Dads credit card.

brannigan.9831:

I don’t think having to cough up 40 bucks every couple of years is a big deal personally. I know a lot of you are 10, or act like it, and thats like 3 years of recess money saved up but really if you add that to the tooth fairy monies you should be able to get HoT.

Already been there.

People have difficulties to pay for FOOD. Half the world do.

There is 90 millions playing LOL right now. Because mostly, the business model let them pay cheap food.

To have fast QUEUE time, you need to get people into it. Not make them flee with Buy to Win dying mindset.

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

Jourdelune.7456:

brannigan.9831:

I don’t think having to cough up 40 bucks every couple of years is a big deal personally. I know a lot of you are 10, or act like it, and thats like 3 years of recess money saved up but really if you add that to the tooth fairy monies you should be able to get HoT.

Already been there.

People have difficulties to pay for FOOD. Half the world do.

There is 90 millions playing LOL right now. Because mostly, the business model let them pay cheap food.

To have fast QUEUE time, you need to get people into it. Not make them flee with Buy to Win dying mindset.

I agree but also look at most of the MOBAs these days. For the most part they all are doing far better then MMORPGs. I wonder why. My friends still laugh at me when I tells them the MMORPGs are a fast dying genre. MOBAs and Multi-Player-Non MMORPG games are slowly but surely becoming the wave of the future. And yes Buy to Win is a very successful but short term business model. One that more and more gamers are starting to reject by the day.

baylock.1703:

Most players have hot but I would not mind vanilla seting for private servers were you can only play with vanilla for ranked it would be 2 much of a seperation depending ofc how popular it will be maibe give 3rd choice under ranked unranked for vanilla were you can’t use elite spec

Most people who actually enjoy pvp would only play on these private servers then….but maybe it would be a way for ANet to understand how much they messed up with HoT powercreep.

people tend to not play any p2w models.

that also make me quit spvp. i used to be very active pvp player

but the unbalanced is crazy.

when people not playing it, game become dead.

thats why dota 2, lol is popular, its balanced

im not a free to play player, i bought this game in 2013..

this hot expansion make veteran player like me same level as free player…

and i hate current state of the game thats why i delay buying the expansions.

Velimere.7685:

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

For sPvP in Guild Wars 2, expac are Buy to Win (B2W).

Play for free is like play a Mass Effect with only a gun, but you can do it without spend a single penny and try all the levels of the game, till the end of the story, with also the multiplayer option.
Buy the game is like play with all the weapons you want, but you have to pay Once for all (and not so much compared to other games).

i don’t really think it’s P2W. It’s also not a B2W, because if you play a TRIAL you can not even pretend to win against someone that Buyed the game.

You’re not here to Play the game, you’re here to TRY the game, then chose if buy o find another game to play.
Then, if you like the game you can buy it for a moderate price and play all the contents and be happy. If you don’t like it, you can go and find another one and be happy.

About the expansion to buy also for veterans… yes, that hurts a lot but I played for 3 years with 40€, I can spend another 40 to play for other 3 years. is more or less 1,1€/month. i don’t think that is a so big payment…

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

For sPvP in Guild Wars 2, expac are Buy to Win (B2W).

B2W is not even a model. Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG, and PvP is a single aspect of it. People who PvP in World of Warcraft or other MMORPGs with paid expansions can’t access expansion content without buying said expansion content either.

HoT specs will be balanced towards vanilla ones…
.
.
.
.
.
Just expect another expansion with new elites.

Silv.9207:

Play for free is like play a Mass Effect with only a gun, but you can do it without spend a single penny and try all the levels of the game, till the end of the story, with also the multiplayer option.
Buy the game is like play with all the weapons you want, but you have to pay Once for all (and not so much compared to other games).

i don’t really think it’s P2W. It’s also not a B2W, because if you play a TRIAL you can not even pretend to win against someone that Buyed the game.

You’re not here to Play the game, you’re here to TRY the game, then chose if buy o find another game to play.
Then, if you like the game you can buy it for a moderate price and play all the contents and be happy. If you don’t like it, you can go and find another one and be happy.

About the expansion to buy also for veterans… yes, that hurts a lot but I played for 3 years with 40€, I can spend another 40 to play for other 3 years. is more or less 1,1€/month. i don’t think that is a so big payment…

Well stop playing with words.

Here is how Anet word it out:
https://account.arena.net/register?alt=gw2&cid=93:5::::Global:40:::

“Play For Free”

In my country, if you sale something on false representation you are susceptible to a class action suit.

No where, it is written Free Trial.

People did download more than 40 gig, to find out it’s Buy to Win.

This is a FACT. You need to Buy HoT to wins games.

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

For sPvP in Guild Wars 2, expac are Buy to Win (B2W).

B2W is not even a model. Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG, and PvP is a single aspect of it. People who PvP in World of Warcraft or other MMORPGs with paid expansions can’t access expansion content without buying said expansion content either.

It’s the new model Anet created.

Buy to play games don’t have Free to play included.

But Guild Wars do.

To make sales, they did forced you to buy HoT in putting Vanilla stuff obsolete.

Buy to Win would be the proper WORDS to help Free to Play players know they got “trap” in downloading a 40 gig games and will have a hard time to win, without Buying the Expac to Win.

B2W.

But… Nope, it’s not Anet that created the Model.

It exist, just look around the web:
http://herowarzforum.koggames.com/forum/herowarz/general-discussion/3900-is-herowarz-p2w-discussion

“Hello! I want to post a thread about this for a while. So why not today? A lot of newcomers keep saying that this game is P2W (Pay 2 Win) or B2W (Buy 2 Win) and I do not understand why they keep saying that. So the questions for this thread are: “Do you think Herowarz (Both PVE and PVP aspects) will be P2W? Why or why not?”"

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151223/b2w-or-b2p

https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/505582/buy-2-win-pvp-is-a-joke/p2

And so on…

Yeah, if you want to have the Free to Play crowd (100x population than buy to play crowd), you need to make it correctly. If not, your F2P efforts and money, is a failure and will not attract the 100 millions F2P players out there.

You choose.

Oh and btw, since we are in pvp forum.

I don’t care PVE or WvW are Buy to win.

But for sPvP, a MOBA game inside that MMORPG you like so much, F2P should have equal chance compare to B2P, to respect the equal chance for all to win (skill based game).

This is the game design of sPvP —> skill based game.

Jourdelune.7456:

Well stop playing with words.
Here is how Anet word it out:
https://account.arena.net/register?alt=gw2&cid=93:5::::Global:40:::
“Play For Free”
In my country, if you sale something on false representation you are susceptible to a class action suit.
No where, it is written Free Trial.
People did download more than 40 gig, to find out it’s Buy to Win.
This is a FACT. You need to Buy HoT to wins games.

Oh and btw, since we are in pvp forum.

I don’t care PVE or WvW are Buy to win.

But for sPvP, a MOBA game inside that MMORPG you like so much, F2P should have equal chance compare to B2P, to respect the equal chance for all to win (skill based game).

This is the game design of sPvP —> skill based game.

Guy, do you really know what you’re talking about?
“Free to Play” is a way to make you play this game, but it don’t force the producers to release all the Expansion contents for free or make you able to play at the same level of who Bought the Expansion.

1) You can not make a class action to force ANet or anyone else to grant you the victory. The main reason is that you agreed to a contract and they’re not idiots. They wrote in the contract that the version that you play is the Basic game, without the Expansion. That basicly make of you a “Grade B” player. You don’t chose that but you are, simply why you didn’t bought the game and they want to SELL the game, not make people play for free. (it’s just marketing)

2) The expansion is the only thing that keep this game alive, did you really think ANet will make a Free player able to play at the same level of someone that Bought the game? They grant you the chance to play the game, but Not to be at the Same Level of someone that bought the Expansion.
And no one that bought the expansion want to make F2P able to play at they’re same level. That’s justice. Buy the game and you’ll be at our same level.

3) There’s not write “Free Trial” but basicly it’s a Trial version of that game. A “Demo”, if you like that word. You’re not really a player, you’re more like a spectator that still don’t know if want to buy that game or not. Or even chose to not buy the game but also pretend to have all the chances to play as who Bought it, that is even worst.

4) There’s a Large amount of games “Free to Play” that basicly aren’t F2P. At 99% they’re P2W. But you’re Lucky! because that’s a Buy to Play game, without any monthly subscription to pay or continuously need to spend money to keep you at top. I’m able to show you a Large amount of other MMORPG or MOBA that are “F2P” but if you don’t make a subscription, or spend a lot of money on them, you are lesser than nothing. And, guy, they’re still up, with no “class action” or threats of kids that want to play for free a game that is NOT for free.

5) You can play in sPvP at high levels with non HoT classes. They’re weaker, but there’s builds for a lot of classes that work really good. Try to look on Metabattle and you will find on “Good Builds” a lot of no HoT builds that still work, also making you able to win a 1vs1 (if you’re good).
And I seriously don’t know any game that make true free to play gamers play at the same level of players that spent moneys on it. And there’s nothing that can force a producer to make a game like that, simply why who make a game like that want only one thing: MONEYS. If you don’t grant them moneys (also with a single buy like in this game) you’re not a player that they need to even notice or listen.
B2P, that’s what keep this game alive, not F2P.

6) Also in PvE and WvWvW if you’re not using a Elite there’s some things that you can’t do and frequently you’re weaker. But no one complain about that, it’s only PvE, you will end the dungeon anyway. But some classes work even better without the specializzation in different situations. (example: Zerg Powernecro is still the best for WvW large scale fights, but the Reaper version is way better for Roaming).

7) About the sPvP… I’m sad to tell you that but… GW2 is not balanced, there’s not differences in skills between PvE and PvP, making some classes really OP and others really weak or easy to kill, some classes have only one viable build and others have plently builds that work all good, and more.
Is not that if you buy the game you can play a perfect and balanced game, not at all.
But yes, if you buy the game you’ll be able to play in a more balanced way than the one you actually play.

8) That’s a Skill Based Game and Design, for shure. It Really is.
The only thing that you missed is that the “Skill Based” level is based on HoT Specializzations Level.
Then, if you have not them you can not play at the best. But you can still play at a high level and win a lot of matches with a Core Class Build. you only have to be way better than the others that have HoT, but you can do it. There’s more than one that reached high levels in sPvP with a F2P account. The only problem is that you have to be way better than who have the expansion to fight against them at a similar level.
(that’s marketing again. they want to make you Buy the game, not play for free for all your life).

I’m sad to say that thing to someone that don’t realize them, but that’s the truth.

If you Really want to play the Full Game, Buy the Game. (B2P)
If you want to Try it and Play the 90% of contents that ANet grants you still if you’re a F2P, play it for all the time you want.
If you pretend to be at the same level of who Bought the game, find another F2P game, because the Basic Game is F2P, but the EXPANSION is NOT a F2P content, and that make you a grade B player, if you will or not.

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Expansions are B2P, not P2W.

For sPvP in Guild Wars 2, expac are Buy to Win (B2W).

B2W is not even a model. Guild Wars 2 is an MMORPG, and PvP is a single aspect of it. People who PvP in World of Warcraft or other MMORPGs with paid expansions can’t access expansion content without buying said expansion content either.

It’s the new model Anet created.

Buy to play games don’t have Free to play included.

But Guild Wars do.

To make sales, they did forced you to buy HoT in putting Vanilla stuff obsolete.

Buy to Win would be the proper WORDS to help Free to Play players know they got “trap” in downloading a 40 gig games and will have a hard time to win, without Buying the Expac to Win.

B2W.

But… Nope, it’s not Anet that created the Model.

It exist, just look around the web:
http://herowarzforum.koggames.com/forum/herowarz/general-discussion/3900-is-herowarz-p2w-discussion

“Hello! I want to post a thread about this for a while. So why not today? A lot of newcomers keep saying that this game is P2W (Pay 2 Win) or B2W (Buy 2 Win) and I do not understand why they keep saying that. So the questions for this thread are: “Do you think Herowarz (Both PVE and PVP aspects) will be P2W? Why or why not?”"

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151223/b2w-or-b2p

https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/505582/buy-2-win-pvp-is-a-joke/p2

And so on…

Yeah, if you want to have the Free to Play crowd (100x population than buy to play crowd), you need to make it correctly. If not, your F2P efforts and money, is a failure and will not attract the 100 millions F2P players out there.

You choose.

Only the base game is free-to-play. World of Warcraft’s free-to-play model is even more restrictive, yet World of Warcraft also isn’t your made up “buy-to-win” model. Citing some random nobody on another forum doesn’t add any credibility to your attempt to shovel your meme/buzzword.

Silv.9207:

Jourdelune.7456:

Well stop playing with words.
Here is how Anet word it out:
https://account.arena.net/register?alt=gw2&cid=93:5::::Global:40:::
“Play For Free”
In my country, if you sale something on false representation you are susceptible to a class action suit.
No where, it is written Free Trial.
People did download more than 40 gig, to find out it’s Buy to Win.
This is a FACT. You need to Buy HoT to wins games.

Oh and btw, since we are in pvp forum.

I don’t care PVE or WvW are Buy to win.

But for sPvP, a MOBA game inside that MMORPG you like so much, F2P should have equal chance compare to B2P, to respect the equal chance for all to win (skill based game).

This is the game design of sPvP —> skill based game.

Guy, do you really know what you’re talking about?
“Free to Play” is a way to make you play this game, but it don’t force the producers to release all the Expansion contents for free or make you able to play at the same level of who Bought the Expansion.

1) You can not make a class action to force ANet or anyone else to grant you the victory. The main reason is that you agreed to a contract and they’re not idiots. They wrote in the contract that the version that you play is the Basic game, without the Expansion. That basicly make of you a “Grade B” player. You don’t chose that but you are, simply why you didn’t bought the game and they want to SELL the game, not make people play for free. (it’s just marketing)

2) The expansion is the only thing that keep this game alive, did you really think ANet will make a Free player able to play at the same level of someone that Bought the game? They grant you the chance to play the game, but Not to be at the Same Level of someone that bought the Expansion.
And no one that bought the expansion want to make F2P able to play at they’re same level. That’s justice. Buy the game and you’ll be at our same level.

3) There’s not write “Free Trial” but basicly it’s a Trial version of that game. A “Demo”, if you like that word. You’re not really a player, you’re more like a spectator that still don’t know if want to buy that game or not. Or even chose to not buy the game but also pretend to have all the chances to play as who Bought it, that is even worst.

4) There’s a Large amount of games “Free to Play” that basicly aren’t F2P. At 99% they’re P2W. But you’re Lucky! because that’s a Buy to Play game, without any monthly subscription to pay or continuously need to spend money to keep you at top. I’m able to show you a Large amount of other MMORPG or MOBA that are “F2P” but if you don’t make a subscription, or spend a lot of money on them, you are lesser than nothing. And, guy, they’re still up, with no “class action” or threats of kids that want to play for free a game that is NOT for free.

5) You can play in sPvP at high levels with non HoT classes. They’re weaker, but there’s builds for a lot of classes that work really good. Try to look on Metabattle and you will find on “Good Builds” a lot of no HoT builds that still work, also making you able to win a 1vs1 (if you’re good).
And I seriously don’t know any game that make true free to play gamers play at the same level of players that spent moneys on it. And there’s nothing that can force a producer to make a game like that, simply why who make a game like that want only one thing: MONEYS. If you don’t grant them moneys (also with a single buy like in this game) you’re not a player that they need to even notice or listen.
B2P, that’s what keep this game alive, not F2P.

6) Also in PvE and WvWvW if you’re not using a Elite there’s some things that you can’t do and frequently you’re weaker. But no one complain about that, it’s only PvE, you will end the dungeon anyway. But some classes work even better without the specializzation in different situations. (example: Zerg Powernecro is still the best for WvW large scale fights, but the Reaper version is way better for Roaming).

7) About the sPvP… I’m sad to tell you that but… GW2 is not balanced, there’s not differences in skills between PvE and PvP, making some classes really OP and others really weak or easy to kill, some classes have only one viable build and others have plently builds that work all good, and more.
Is not that if you buy the game you can play a perfect and balanced game, not at all.
But yes, if you buy the game you’ll be able to play in a more balanced way than the one you actually play.

8) That’s a Skill Based Game and Design, for shure. It Really is.
The only thing that you missed is that the “Skill Based” level is based on HoT Specializzations Level.
Then, if you have not them you can not play at the best. But you can still play at a high level and win a lot of matches with a Core Class Build. you only have to be way better than the others that have HoT, but you can do it. There’s more than one that reached high levels in sPvP with a F2P account. The only problem is that you have to be way better than who have the expansion to fight against them at a similar level.
(that’s marketing again. they want to make you Buy the game, not play for free for all your life).

I’m sad to say that thing to someone that don’t realize them, but that’s the truth.

If you Really want to play the Full Game, Buy the Game. (B2P)
If you want to Try it and Play the 90% of contents that ANet grants you still if you’re a F2P, play it for all the time you want.
If you pretend to be at the same level of who Bought the game, find another F2P game, because the Basic Game is F2P, but the EXPANSION is NOT a F2P content, and that make you a grade B player, if you will or not.

1. I dont care about the advantage HOT players had in PVE and WVW. For me it is MMORPG, they paid for it, they deserved it.

2. SPVP is more like moba/esport. So balance is important! If players like the game, by hook or by crook, they will pay for it!! look how successfull dota 2 is…see how many their prize pool money in the international 2016…

3. It is Pay2win. You paid for HOT right? and of course you buy it too. but its the same. Just different words.

4. HOT class is op, at least for thief.

nerovergil.5408:

1. I dont care about the advantage HOT players had in PVE and WVW. For me it is MMORPG, they paid for it, they deserved it.

2. SPVP is more like moba/esport. So balance is important! If players like the game, by hook or by crook, they will pay for it!! look how successfull dota 2 is…see how many their prize pool money in the international 2016…

3. It is Pay2win. You paid for HOT right? and of course you buy it too. but its the same. Just different words.

4. HOT class is op, at least for thief.

sPvP is still a section fo that MMORPG. There’s a reason why GW2 is Not a moba/esport game. You can’t enter a game and play only PvP pretending it’s balanced on your free account while others bought the expansion. to obtain things that F2P have not. There’s not a single game in the internet where you can play at the same leve of who bought the game as a F2P. You can play, you can win, but don’t pretend to be strong as someone that bought the game.

Anyway, it can be classified as a moba/esport game, simply why there’s nothing in the sPvP that count more than your build and you ability to use it, without any interest on level or equipment. That make every player able to win a fight, without difference from new players and veterans.
BUT there’s only a condition: the Expansion. if you have the expansion you can play at the same level of everyone, if you’ve not you’re not able to.

That is not wrong, not at all. First why ANet want to Sell the game, not make you play for free, Second why if you buy the game you want something better than when you was a F2P.

And, to the end, that is NOT a “Buy to Win” game. Simply why if you don’t buy the game you’re basicly UNABLE to play it in it’s fullness, then you’re unable to play at your best.
Basicly, if you download the F2P version of the game, you’re able to play, have fun and try the game for all the time you want. If you BUY the game you can PLAY the game.
is not that who buy the game win and who don’t lose. Is that if you don’t buy the game you Deserve to lose against who Bought it!
You’re playing a trial version maskered as F2P.

And I have to tell you a big universal Truth:
“FREE TO PLAY” IS NEVER “FREE TO WIN”.
In every F2P games who Pay to Play have better things than you. Always. in Every Single Game.
In that game you’re lucky why you can play 90% of the game for free, but you’re only a trial player attracted here with the “F2P Bait”. You’re free to play every game mode you want, you’re able to fight against both F2P and B2P players and you’re also able to win against the best player ever. But you will Never be at the same level of who Bought the game.
2 reasons: Justice and Marketing.
-Justice why if I buy a game I don’t want to be at the same level of someone who play for free. If I will ever be at your same level I will ask my money back and play as a F2P like you. Why pay for something if I can play for free?
-marketing why ANet don’t do beneficence by making players play for free a beautiful game like GW2. They want to Sell you they’re game, nothing more.

Continue to play and be happy with your F2P account. And do your best to kill HoT specs in PvP ;-)

B2W or B2P, what ever the term you want to use, is what every MMORPG expansion game is. WoW, Aion, etc. GW2 is no different so why are players concerned?

Except you can technically still win games with certain core builds, it’s just not as efficient.
/thread

No, it’s not P2W. It costs money to buy the game and then when the expansion came out Anet made the core game free for people to try. You obviously still have to buy the expansion to get the full experience.

There are also still builds in the core game that are viable in PvP. Burn Guardian counters Druid pretty hard for instance. Oh, and build differences only matter for competitive players who play at a much higher level than most people. I could probably beat most players I meet by spamming ‘1’ on my Thieves shortbow.

The OP is right. Luckily its only a small amount of money (compared to some other games), but the set up is damaging for the spvp side of the game.

I agree, it was overall a mistake to take this approach at least from the PvP side of things. The best approach would be for expansion content to be free in the Mists while the rest of the game is locked until you purchase the expansion.

It ends up being two fold beneficial. One players who are on the edge can get a sample of what the expansion offers. As character classes are mostly front loaded in terms of the excitement they generate in the first few hours of playing they are great candidates for demo content. It is why all mobas operate on a rotating free character pool.

Secondly PvP depends so heavily on player population to be healthy. It is a social experience by nature and what drives players to many competitive games is to pull a large group of your friend circle into the game. It is why MMO’s and PvP games end up being very robust. The social aspect makes it difficult to compete with established games as you are not vying for just one player to join, you are vying for a friend circle. It is important to breakdown as many barriers as possible to allow that transition.

Say for example you are competing for the same player base as league of legends. I have a group of 5 friends I play with regularly. Now lets say Gw2 is released and has a fair bit of hype around it. 4 of the 5 friends are interested enough to pay for it. The 5th is not. Now those first 4 friends also have increased resistance to buying it because even if they enjoy the gameplay of Gw2 more, having that complete friend circle can add more value. Sure those players may purchase Gw2 but they don’t have a large investment as they will still likely return to League of Legends to play with their full group of friends. Now if you get all 5, any other game is going to have to jump through a huge amount of hoops trying to get them all away from your game.

The other problem is just the content of the expansion. Personally I found it hurt how fun the game was and I wasn’t about to pay for a worse experience. The expansion increased a lot of the negative aspects of the experience with more clutter, a higher % of a characters power coming from passive effects and even less build diversity. Pretty much all symptoms of power creep.

Anet does a terrible job at keeping vanilla classes still viable. All my friends have left gw2 for other games, like WoW for example. Anet or should I say Anerf, needs an actual team that has mmo experience- you shouldn’t have to buy an expansion just so your class can be good, that is cheap. As far as accessing new content, sure that shouldn’t be free if it’s apart of the expansion. New gear should be game wide, not expansion only. Vanilla builds should still be viable. There is so much more wrong with anets tactics than there is right. It’s taken me almost 4 years to realize this once I played other mmos.

Silv.9207:

is not that who buy the game win and who don’t lose. Is that if you don’t buy the game you Deserve to lose against who Bought it!

What kind of double-think pretzel logic is that? You’ve basically just said that this IS buy-to-win!

JTGuevara.9018:

Silv.9207:

is not that who buy the game win and who don’t lose. Is that if you don’t buy the game you Deserve to lose against who Bought it!

What kind of double-think pretzel logic is that? You’ve basically just said that this IS buy-to-win!

“THAT DON’T MAKE ANY SENSE!!!!!”

JTGuevara.9018:

Silv.9207:

is not that who buy the game win and who don’t lose. Is that if you don’t buy the game you Deserve to lose against who Bought it!

What kind of double-think pretzel logic is that? You’ve basically just said that this IS buy-to-win!

How about Buy to Play?

Fourth.1567:

it was overall a mistake to take this approach at least from the PvP side of things. The best approach would be for expansion content to be free in the Mists while the rest of the game is locked until you purchase the expansion.

That’s the best approach for players who want more content without spending money. The PvP game is already free, why should Anet deliver more free stuffs?

Players need to think of the HoT expansion as increasing their level to 90. Buy HoT and you’ll metaphorically be a level 90 compared to the rest. This is the same as every other mmorpg expansion and it’ll likely never change.

I can agree in some way that HoT is P2W… As long as the elite specs are as good as they are. They give an unfair advantage over the core builds. But I would not like it if they decide core players and HoT players, I would like them to either buff core builds or nerf elite specs.

Personally i don’t want to make F2P players able to obtain the only thing we payed for.
The expansion is ALL about Elite Specializzations. Without them there’s any reason to buy the expansion?

There’s already a insane amount of thing that a F2P is able to do into that B2P game. Just be happy for what had been released for free and buy the game if you want the expansion. The “lv90” classes.

To make it short, sPvP would benefit to be all around Free to play because it’s game design is based around “equal” chance to compete. (no grind or money involved)

This would be a “Free-trial” to new HoT spec-like thing. It would boost sPvP population.

To access PvE or WvW, you still B2P.

For sPvP with the simple solution, people don’t think you are B2W and so, you got “good perceived” value of your game and not the “Pay to Win” junk reputation our beloved game now have.

All elite specs should be automatically enabled in SPVP, particularly if they won’t nerf them all into the ground so original specs aren’t at a massive disadvantage unless you’re a 420pro.

Jourdelune.7456:

For sPvP with the simple solution, people don’t think you are B2W and so, you got “good perceived” value of your game and not the “Pay to Win” junk reputation our beloved game now have.

That’s just your own personal misconception as the game is Buy-to-Play, not Pay-to-Win.

Just separate Free trial players from Expansion players. Solution done.

runeblade.7514:

Just separate Free trial players from Expansion players. Solution done.

Who said it was a problem? If you don’t like Anet model. Go ahead an open a restaurant, and advertised it as a free to eat. Trust me , you’ll get the clientele !!! Just dont forget to file for Chapter 11..

runeblade.7514:

Just separate Free trial players from Expansion players. Solution done.

Hmmm… I agree with you.

HoT Queues would take 1 hour, while CORE Queue would get under 30 sec, like it was in summer 2015 with the Free to Play successful conversion rate.

For what I know, GW2 is still a MMORPG, also in sPvP, Not a MOBA.
Do you want to play a real F2P MOBA game? You have to search for old and bad ones, why actually there’s not a single F2P MOBA on the web. They’re all maskered by F2P but if you don’t spend a LOT of money on them you will never achieve the true best ability, skills, characters, stats, and more.
Turn back to your Fake F2P LoL and be happy.
That’s a B2P game.

And, please, download a game is not a payment for the game you’re downloading.