Guild Wars 2

Velimere.7685:

Yasha.5963:

It is still an incredible game, but it is now also p2w, although thankfully in a very mild way compared to some other similar games.

Except it isn’t pay-to-win. It’s buy-to-play.

Its a buy to play game that lets you pay to win in spvp. There are also free to play and sub-based games that let you pay to win. Spin it how you want, but before HoT this kind of discussion never came up.

Anyway the question is not “is Gw2’s spvp p2w”- because it clearly is – but “why did the company decide to go down the p2w route for spvp?”

Saiyan.1704:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Velimere.7685:

JTGuevara.9018:

Some players seem to forget that this is P—V—P.

This attitude that f2p players need to cough up cash just to get a level playing field is astounding. PvP is a competitive format. ALL players should have access to the most recent upgrades whether they’re part of an expansion or not.

Or else….it’s pay-to-win.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.

State your reason.

Rather than my reason, the reason is because it’s buy-to-play.

Not for PvP it’s not. I only refer to PvP as pay-to-win.

If you release an expansion with skills and traits that are unreasonably stronger and far surpass the original ones and stick them in a competitive game mode, it’s pay-to-win. Simple as that. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

That’s nice. Just because they are two separate games in your make-believe world doesn’t change the fact that they are a part of the same game herein reality and you are therefore wrong herein reality and it is buy-to-play.

Thank you for the spin. I never said they were separate games, I said that a portion of the game(PvP) is pay-to-win thanks to the expansion. If anything, denying that you have to pay to get access to elite builds that make it easier to win is the real make-believe.

Elite specializations are part of the expansion regardless as to whether or not they are used in PvP, and the expansion is buy-to-play. Misconstrue the facts all you’d like, but that’ll never make your false opinion anything more than make-believe.

Pay-to-win means you have to buy to play in order to win. I don’t reject the fact that you have to pay to buy the expansion to play it, I reject the statement that the whole of the expansion is “buy-to-play” when there is evidence to the contrary in PvP where you have to PAY to WIN.

That’s a bit wrong.

Pay to Win means you have to pay multiple times in order to be better than everyone else. This usually comes in forms of in-game micro transactions like buying potions, boosts, gear, etc.

Buy to play is paying once and not having to pay ever again.
This is a buy to play game regardless of core classes playing along side of elite players.

I don’t agree with Anet’s design philosophy, we were promised everything being on even footing, but the game is still B2P per its definition.

And for PvP, I dispute that definition.

The difference between buy-to-play games and pay-to-win games is advantage. The PvP content of HoT is pay-to-win because HoT PvP players have a clear advantage over core PvP players.

With PvE and WvW, the buy-to-play definition applies since there are no serious advantages given that could compromise those portions of the game.

Yasha.5963:

Its a buy to play game that lets you pay to win in spvp. There are also free to play and sub-based games that let you pay to win. Spin it how you want, but before HoT this kind of discussion never came up.

Anyway the question is not “is Gw2’s spvp p2w”- because it clearly is – but “why did the company decide to go down the p2w route for spvp?”

You’re wrong. It’s buy-to-play plain and simple.

JTGuevara.9018:

And for PvP, I dispute that definition.

You can dispute reality all you want, but you’ll always be wrong.

Velimere.7685:

Yasha.5963:

Its a buy to play game that lets you pay to win in spvp. There are also free to play and sub-based games that let you pay to win. Spin it how you want, but before HoT this kind of discussion never came up.

Anyway the question is not “is Gw2’s spvp p2w”- because it clearly is – but “why did the company decide to go down the p2w route for spvp?”

You’re wrong. It’s buy-to-win plain and simple.

JTGuevara.9018:

And for PvP, I dispute that definition.

You can dispute reality all you want, but you’ll always be wrong.

I can dispute YOUR reality all I want with statements that contradict it.

JTGuevara.9018:

I can dispute YOUR reality all I want with statements that contradict it.

It’s not my reality. It’s the reality. Your statements attempting to contradict it are completely and utterly regardless.

Drakz.7051:

They should have 2 pvp types. One for HoT owners and one for those without.

And only owners of HoT should be able to participate in the league.

It ruins the game for you and them when they feel like they are forced to pay to even have a fair chance and you as a HoT owner lose a match or even many matches because one or more of your team do not stand a chance in hell.

I have better suggestion. Ban f2p accounts from any kind of PvP and then Anet can balance core specs to meet with HoT specs. Easy as that. That would be win-win situation.

I find it tottaly funny :p

PPl are trying to protect their favorite class from getting nerfed , while saying some moronic excuses to defend it , from the HoT lauch till now ….
(why do i have the same vibes that the same hapened at GW2 launch …and the company should focus on creating more moneytournamnets to bring more streamer
and their veiwers , instead of satysfying their existing players ?)
then they do 180 degree back and as why HoT specs are overpowred compared to the core ones , thus making GW2 P2W :P

Is it that the company had decided to give Revand an Weapon Swap mechanic (extra 5 attacks) , when HoT was in beta , or the community request it in the ‘’how to improve Revenand megathread’’ ?
And later on moan that the Revenand have replaced Thiefs?

Or is it the company that never used the evadeTheif specs in season 1-2 , showcasing its problem ?
Or the condition mesmer before the HoT launch ?
Or the trap Guardian from season 1 ?
Is it the company that moaned that the Guardians have been replaced by Elemenalis , thus giving the Guarians more survibility in the laest pacth while having huge damage with the traps ?
Is it the company that moaned abut bunker meta , thus removing tanky amulets , hurting Elementalists ?

From one hypocrite to another … theres must be some honesty between us :P
By birth-right i have that passive , along with a bull@@ meter too and a demagogue achiv (which is good right ? -2014-twitter-popeye) :P

+ GW2 has an ‘’Play for Free’’ option , which is an extended form of trial …. just like here :
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/start

Buy the expansion and Play this game. Stop.

Some others already wrote that F2P players already pay for slots and cosmetics. If they pay for that “useless” things, why don’t they spend a Little more and buy the game? no more the expansion but all the game, simply why the expansion IS the Game, there’s no difference for F2P players.

And, for the Last Time:

GW2 IS A MMORPG NOT A MOBA!

Stop talking about MOBA why that game Is NOT a MOBA!
if you want to play a MOBA, go to play that fake “F2P” MOBA outhere that make you spend more moneys than what you will ever spand here just to be barely able to play that game and be happy!

Stop talking about other game designs because that one is a MMORPG and not a moba.

runeblade.7514:

Jourdelune.7456:

runeblade.7514:

Just separate Free trial players from Expansion players. Solution done.

Hmmm… I agree with you.

HoT Queues would take 1 hour, while CORE Queue would get under 30 sec, like it was in summer 2015 with the Free to Play successful conversion rate.

Then that means core classes is better balanced than HoT classes. Shame on the balance team.

Or that means that F2P spvp players population would be more active than HoT sPvP buyer. Then the HoT player, would join the more populate queue to compete.

MOBA players don’t buy to play. Bring them into a “fair” model with a skill-based action pack combat and you will have 10x more of them than your actual pve player base.

And since F2P bring more money than B2P, Whales will pay for skins much more than B2P players. B2P players want to pay once to get everything. F2P want to pay for something they want, when they want it at a premium price.

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

Gw2 pve is a MMORPG.

Gw2 spvp is completely defined by this: Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Yasha.5963:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

There you have it, according to Velimere.7685, the reason GW2 is p2w is because its a mmorpg.

Before HoT this was the only mmorpg that had absolutely no p2w in its spvp gamemode, and it was a godsend.

Well, before HoT, the core game wasn’t accessible to free players.

Wrong again. Summer 2015 was the F2P heaven, we had 3 seconds queue pop in RANK queue.

HoT did come in 25 October 2015 and shorter queue time were 1 min or so. Both at the same MMR or so.

Well, anet can just allow f2p players to be able to play elite specs in spvp only but they won’t be able to play in ranked games.

However, anet can also make the f2p players buy certain items in the gemstore or give these players a kind of currency they can trade in for time to play in ranked.

Velimere.7685:

Yasha.5963:

Its a buy to play game that lets you pay to win in spvp. There are also free to play and sub-based games that let you pay to win. Spin it how you want, but before HoT this kind of discussion never came up.

Anyway the question is not “is Gw2’s spvp p2w”- because it clearly is – but “why did the company decide to go down the p2w route for spvp?”

You’re wrong. It’s buy-to-win plain and simple.

JTGuevara.9018:

And for PvP, I dispute that definition.

You can dispute reality all you want, but you’ll always be wrong.

Yes Velimere, like you said and quoted, it’s Buy to Win. Thank you to listening us, reading and understanding the differences betweeb Buy to Play and Buy to Win.

Drensky.9567:

Well, anet can just allow f2p players to be able to play elite specs in spvp only but they won’t be able to play in ranked games.

However, anet can also make the f2p players buy certain items in the gemstore or give these players a kind of currency they can trade in for time to play in ranked.

Your second suggestion would permit our beloved game to get a F2P status without the P2W or B2W reputation that our game have right now.

More… gemstore is always a premium compare to B2P, so like I exposed earlier paying 90$ to unlock all HoT specialization would be good, into the F2P model.

F2P players pay more when they want and need to. It’s a freedom that cost more than the B2P model. but… the keyword here is, F2P is 10x larger in player base.

I really miss those 3 seconds queue time (with a premade…).

Silv.9207:

Buy the expansion and Play this game. Stop.

Some others already wrote that F2P players already pay for slots and cosmetics. If they pay for that “useless” things, why don’t they spend a Little more and buy the game? no more the expansion but all the game, simply why the expansion IS the Game, there’s no difference for F2P players.

And, for the Last Time:

GW2 IS A MMORPG NOT A MOBA!

Stop talking about MOBA why that game Is NOT a MOBA!
if you want to play a MOBA, go to play that fake “F2P” MOBA outhere that make you spend more moneys than what you will ever spand here just to be barely able to play that game and be happy!

Stop talking about other game designs because that one is a MMORPG and not a moba.

Correct, Because GW2 follows the model of a MMORPG, it becomes a Pay2win.

If they followed the payment model of a MOBA, it won’t become pay2win.

As a player of BDO I can say this…you don’t know what p2w is…

Jourdelune.7456:

runeblade.7514:

Jourdelune.7456:

runeblade.7514:

Just separate Free trial players from Expansion players. Solution done.

Hmmm… I agree with you.

HoT Queues would take 1 hour, while CORE Queue would get under 30 sec, like it was in summer 2015 with the Free to Play successful conversion rate.

Then that means core classes is better balanced than HoT classes. Shame on the balance team.

Or that means that F2P spvp players population would be more active than HoT sPvP buyer. Then the HoT player, would join the more populate queue to compete.

MOBA players don’t buy to play. Bring them into a “fair” model with a skill-based action pack combat and you will have 10x more of them than your actual pve player base.

And since F2P bring more money than B2P, Whales will pay for skins much more than B2P players. B2P players want to pay once to get everything. F2P want to pay for something they want, when they want it at a premium price.

If F2P spvp players are more active, then that means the expansion just isn’t fun to play. Shame on the devs for making it not fun.

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

Gw2 pve is a MMORPG.

Gw2 spvp is completely defined by this: Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.

Halo, Call of Duty, CS:GO are all Multiplayer Battle Arenas. No one calls them a Moba because there’s specific aspects in moba games that seperates them from other sandbox pvp games.

Jourdelune.7456:

Drensky.9567:

Well, anet can just allow f2p players to be able to play elite specs in spvp only but they won’t be able to play in ranked games.

However, anet can also make the f2p players buy certain items in the gemstore or give these players a kind of currency they can trade in for time to play in ranked.

Your second suggestion would permit our beloved game to get a F2P status without the P2W or B2W reputation that our game have right now.

More… gemstore is always a premium compare to B2P, so like I exposed earlier paying 90$ to unlock all HoT specialization would be good, into the F2P model.

F2P players pay more when they want and need to. It’s a freedom that cost more than the B2P model. but… the keyword here is, F2P is 10x larger in player base.

I really miss those 3 seconds queue time (with a premade…).

It would also be a good idea to give free to play players the option to “rent” game time to play HoT expansion features without having to buy the expansion or just buy the expansion.

Guys stop bieng stingy. Just buy the game. Come on.

The unspoken law of people who work hard or give up something in return netting greater rewards is something that applies IRL as well.

Ofcourse it’s not black and white. and certain countries espically the westernized have safety nets for those who simply cannot afford, foodbanks,welfare etc. sure. they are there. But even in said progressive countries those living on welfare are not living like a millionaire aren’t they? But it goes further. Those that actually drop down lots of money actually benefit society as a whole.

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

U can still win with core classed. If U decide to not to pay for the expansion it means that u made the consious descision to play only a part of the game and thus experience only it’s limited benefits and thus u should accept working with these restrictions. And keep in mind that the core game was beforehand still considered an entire full game on it’s own. If anything this is extremely generous.

If U can’t be contend with practically having a full game for free that u don’t even need to pay a monthly fee for, then the problem lies with you guys!!!

Jourdelune.7456:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

Gw2 pve is a MMORPG.

Gw2 spvp is completely defined by this: Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.

Same game, so no. Regardless as to your personal segregation of the two, this remains to be the fact of the matter.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

I did not. They are bigger benefits sure. But u can still win matches and even make it to legendary with skill. Just most of u to not play at the highest level which is completely fine.

Jourdelune.7456:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Yasha.5963:

Velimere.7685:

Jourdelune.7456:

Since sPvP is a MOBA, let’s do like them to bring more players in.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t a MOBA; it’s an MMORPG.

There you have it, according to Velimere.7685, the reason GW2 is p2w is because its a mmorpg.

Before HoT this was the only mmorpg that had absolutely no p2w in its spvp gamemode, and it was a godsend.

Well, before HoT, the core game wasn’t accessible to free players.

Wrong again. Summer 2015 was the F2P heaven, we had 3 seconds queue pop in RANK queue.

HoT did come in 25 October 2015 and shorter queue time were 1 min or so. Both at the same MMR or so.

And when was HOT announced? Dude, i am starting to believe you don’t get marketing at all.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

I did not. They are bigger benefits sure. But u can still win matches and even make it to legendary with skill. Just most of u to not play at the highest level which is completely fine.

If ANet puts +1000 power boost in the gem store that works in sPvP, would you still say that is pay2win?

It is still a benefit, you can still win matches and even make it to legendary without it. It fits every criteria in your quote.

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

I did not. They are bigger benefits sure. But u can still win matches and even make it to legendary with skill. Just most of u to not play at the highest level which is completely fine.

If ANet puts +1000 power boost in the gem store that works in sPvP, would you still say that is pay2win?

It is still a benefit, you can still win matches and even make it to legendary without it. It fits every criteria in your quote.

You are not quite getting what i mean. It’s not pay to win. Heart of thorns+gw2 is the full game now. U are seeing them as seperate. What u are doing by only playing the core game is playing part of the game. Bassically those with heart of thorns have access to all content.U are using a part. that is where our advantage lies.

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

It’s buy-to-play.

Velimere.7685:

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

It’s buy-to-play.

sPvP is free to play with pay2win.

I can play sPvP for free. But if I want to get more power I got to buy the elite specs.

runeblade.7514:

Velimere.7685:

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

It’s buy-to-play.

sPvP is free to play with pay2win.

I can play sPvP for free. But if I want to get more power I got to buy the elite specs.

Rated Arena is not its own game in Guild Wars 2 just like Battlegrounds is not its own game in World of Warcraft. In both of these games, you have purchase an expansion to play it. World of Warcraft isn’t pay-to-win, and neither is Guild Wars 2.

Drensky.9567:

Well, anet can just allow f2p players to be able to play elite specs in spvp only but they won’t be able to play in ranked games.

However, anet can also make the f2p players buy certain items in the gemstore or give these players a kind of currency they can trade in for time to play in ranked.

Yes, and that’s not P2W?
That’s more or less the thing against you’re screaming.
Elite are too OP then F2P can’t play in ranked without be slaughtered by everyone, let’s make them Totally Unable to play in ranked!

Also, NO, make F2P able to play Elite will grant them the Only Reason who someone can desire to buy the game (or the expansion if you’re an old player).

ANet can make elite specializzations to be buyed in gemstore, but that will only make this game a True P2W, why you’ll be abled to buy a class “OP” at the shop. instead, that’s a B2P, where you Buy the Game to be able to play at the biggest level.
Even if they put the elites in the gemstore, to buy them you’ll need something like 1000-1500 gems each. That will make them unarrivable for every F2P players. And if they spen money to buy gems is more or less easier for them to directly BUY the Game, don’t you think?

Velimere.7685:

runeblade.7514:

Velimere.7685:

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

It’s buy-to-play.

sPvP is free to play with pay2win.

I can play sPvP for free. But if I want to get more power I got to buy the elite specs.

Rated Arena isn’kittens own game in Guild Wars 2 just like Battlegrounds isn’kittens own game in World of Warcraft. In both of these games, you have purchase an expansion to play it. World of Warcraft isn’t pay-to-win, and neither is Guild Wars 2.

WoW actually was one of the most p2w games in terms of its battlegrounds: that was one of the great things about GW2’s spvp before HoT- absolutely no p2w, unlike every other mmo I can think of.

Before HoT, GW2 alwo was not F2P.
What’s the problem if before F2P GW2 was the perfect game and after HoT that game is immediatly become a “P2W”?
Is then the F2P that make a Perfect game a P2W game?

Yasha.5963:

WoW actually was one of the most p2w games in terms of its battlegrounds: that was one of the great things about GW2’s spvp before HoT- absolutely no p2w, unlike every other mmo I can think of.

The fact that you think World of Warcraft is pay-to-win just goes to show that you have absolutely zero understanding of the difference between buy-to-play and pay-to-win and just what exactly constitutes pay-to-win in the first place.

Silv.9207:

They had also to add MORE Elite Specializzations, as they said. And that, yes, would improve the build diversity.

Anyway actually there’s a lot of build diversity. I belive that only the Necromancer is forced to play condition and the guardian direct damage, all the other classes have meta or good builds for both the damage sources, sometimes mixed. And some have also other builds than dps. For example the guardian have the dps and the bunker, the mesmer have the direct and the condi, sometimes also the supporter with wells. Thief have different good builds to use like the old decapper and the new total dodge builds 8really strong to hold a point, survive for a incredible long time and inflict really good damage).

If you look only metabattle there’s few to none build diversity, if you look at what the players play there’s a lot of build diversity.

i play Necromancer and I can say that there’s different builds that really work (still counting the bottom tier of the necro in this meta). I played with the “meta” symbol build, with a Corruption build (that frequently is better to help the team, with only little lesser boon corruption and damage) and even the minion master build. more or less they have the same focus: boon corruption and +1 player (with the Mm that have better damage with lesser boon corruption, but also spam poison with minion death).

Anyway, the F2P Experience have not to be the best experience of they’re life.
They’re F2P and they Have to Know that if they Buy the game they obtain something Better than what they actually have!

Answer me: If you will be able to play at the exact same level of a player that buyed the game, how many reasons will you have to buy the game?

If you’re a F2P you can TRY the game and BUY it if you like.
If you don’t buy it, you will always play a TRIAL VERSION of the game.

first off all we lost alot of build diversity back in the specialization which essentially destroyed alot of builds im not a fan of the specialization i miss the old trait system

This thread seriously confuses me. I don’t understand why anyone on F2P thinks they should have the same benefits as anyone who bought the base game and HoT regardless of what game mode that is and if the game is so “beloved” to you, why can’t you spend money actually buying it? The entitlement here is painful.

To say you can’t get anywhere in PvP without HoT specs is also a complete fallacy, because you absolutely can with core builds, but not if you suck as a player.

do you need to buy it to win (yes/no)
if (yes) its buy to win
if (no) its not buy to win
does buying it give you an advantage towards players (yes/no)
if (yes) its buy to win
if (no) its not buy to win
i also feel genuinely bad when i see a F2P player fight a person who has bought the expansion cause if i couldn’t afford to buy the expansion i probably would have quit and went onto another game

Velimere.7685:

Yasha.5963:

WoW actually was one of the most p2w games in terms of its battlegrounds: that was one of the great things about GW2’s spvp before HoT- absolutely no p2w, unlike every other mmo I can think of.

The fact that you think World of Warcraft is pay-to-win just goes to show that you have absolutely zero understanding of the difference between buy-to-play and pay-to-win and just what exactly constitutes pay-to-win in the first place.

You can (or could when I played) buy gold with cash and spend that on gear and enchants that would make you totally OP. Later you could legally buy tokens with cash and trade that for gold, with which you could buy OP gear.

It is the very definition of p2w, and something completely absent from GW2 until HoT. Luckily even with HoT GW2 is far, far less p2w than WoW etc because USD50 is the greatest advantage you can buy in spvp.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Guys stop bieng stingy. Just buy the game. Come on.

The unspoken law of people who work hard or give up something in return netting greater rewards is something that applies IRL as well.

Ofcourse it’s not black and white. and certain countries espically the westernized have safety nets for those who simply cannot afford, foodbanks,welfare etc. sure. they are there. But even in said progressive countries those living on welfare are not living like a millionaire aren’t they? But it goes further. Those that actually drop down lots of money actually benefit society as a whole.

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

U can still win with core classed. If U decide to not to pay for the expansion it means that u made the consious descision to play only a part of the game and thus experience only it’s limited benefits and thus u should accept working with these restrictions. And keep in mind that the core game was beforehand still considered an entire full game on it’s own. If anything this is extremely generous.

If U can’t be contend with practically having a full game for free that u don’t even need to pay a monthly fee for, then the problem lies with you guys!!!

Please, you have your Buy to Play options.

Great.

Let people that prefer the F2P option to chose that.

They only need to “polish” the F2P experiences so, Gw2 reputations become better than the Pay to Win or Buy to Win one.

Static.9841:

This thread seriously confuses me. I don’t understand why anyone on F2P thinks they should have the same benefits as anyone who bought the base game and HoT regardless of what game mode that is and if the game is so “beloved” to you, why can’t you spend money actually buying it? The entitlement here is painful.

To say you can’t get anywhere in PvP without HoT specs is also a complete fallacy, because you absolutely can with core builds, but not if you suck as a player.

Well… there is 3 game mode.

Spvp game mode population is really low right now.

F2P in august 2015 is an option for Gw2. It make the spvp population 10x of what it was. When HoT came, it make those F2P leave to other game.

So, F2P is a model of Gw2. SPVP can use that for good.

Let’s evolved the model to make good things for SPVP only.

So since we are in the pvp forum, I understand that you paid 50$ for your PVE or WvW experiences… i am fine with this. But for sPvP, it should not matter that way, because it become buy to win. (unless specialization are sidegrade like they sold this out, but it’s not true and everyone and their mother in the F2P crowd left us behind)

Auroraborealis.7310:

See, I think what a lot of you don’t understand is, there is a lot of production that has to be done in order to produce content like HoT. Creating a high quality expansion doesn’t just happen overnight. These guys at Anet have families to take care of, and they gotta get income from somewhere. Well this just happens to be their job, and they get paid to develop this game so they cant just put the content out for free. There has to be some incentive to buy the expansion, otherwise everyone will just be a freeloader and play the game without ever spending a dime. At that point what kind of quality would you expect?

What if the HoT specs were absolute trash, and no one wanted to play them? What would be the justification in purchasing the expansion?

Bottom line is, if you get to a point in the game where you feel you are being edged out in competitive play by people WITH JOBS who were willing to dish the little cash to buy the expansion, maybe you should consider just buying it yourself.

There is no reason someone who invests nothing into a game should get the same amount out of that content, as someone who has invested their hard earned cash. If you like the game, support the game.. Buy the expansion. Then all problems will be solved.

The core skill trees are still used in a multitude of variations in conjunction with the new specializations. So its not like they are totally gone.

The pay for living argument is false.

Polishing the F2P model right now, is more money for Anet through gemstore.

Buy to play still buy to play. Free to play, still free to play.

Both model are in the game right now.

Both model are lucrative.

The implementation of F2P model right now, is considered Pay to Win by most of that Crowd. Anet need to redeem themselves on that front, make a new feature that will help F2P players to access specialization and released that on the MOBA website.

So we can get back the 10’s of thousands new spvp only players that made possible a fantastic MM with 3 sec queue pop.

Jourdelune.7456:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Guys stop bieng stingy. Just buy the game. Come on.

The unspoken law of people who work hard or give up something in return netting greater rewards is something that applies IRL as well.

Ofcourse it’s not black and white. and certain countries espically the westernized have safety nets for those who simply cannot afford, foodbanks,welfare etc. sure. they are there. But even in said progressive countries those living on welfare are not living like a millionaire aren’t they? But it goes further. Those that actually drop down lots of money actually benefit society as a whole.

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

U can still win with core classed. If U decide to not to pay for the expansion it means that u made the consious descision to play only a part of the game and thus experience only it’s limited benefits and thus u should accept working with these restrictions. And keep in mind that the core game was beforehand still considered an entire full game on it’s own. If anything this is extremely generous.

If U can’t be contend with practically having a full game for free that u don’t even need to pay a monthly fee for, then the problem lies with you guys!!!

Please, you have your Buy to Play options.

Great.

Let people that prefer the F2P option to chose that.

They only need to “polish” the F2P experiences so, Gw2 reputations become better than the Pay to Win or Buy to Win one.

Absolutely not.

Playing with specialisations in pvp is part of the game and thus buy to play. Ofcourse A-net will put more effort for those that bought thier game.

I bought the now full game so I deserve the full benefits it entails. Yes even in pvp and wvw.

The Free to play players are already making the choice. U either choose to play the full game or a part and play with limited options. PvP is part of the game and not seperate.

This are the consequences. They don’t get the same benefits as I. they are not inherintely entitled to be served to the fullest extent when not even paying.That’s not what having a choice means.

Jourdelune.7456:

Static.9841:

This thread seriously confuses me. I don’t understand why anyone on F2P thinks they should have the same benefits as anyone who bought the base game and HoT regardless of what game mode that is and if the game is so “beloved” to you, why can’t you spend money actually buying it? The entitlement here is painful.

To say you can’t get anywhere in PvP without HoT specs is also a complete fallacy, because you absolutely can with core builds, but not if you suck as a player.

Well… there is 3 game mode.

Spvp game mode population is really low right now.

F2P in august 2015 is an option for Gw2. It make the spvp population 10x of what it was. When HoT came, it make those F2P leave to other game.

So, F2P is a model of Gw2. SPVP can use that for good.

Let’s evolved the model to make good things for SPVP only.

So since we are in the pvp forum, I understand that you paid 50$ for your PVE or WvW experiences… i am fine with this. But for sPvP, it should not matter that way, because it become buy to win. (unless specialization are sidegrade like they sold this out, but it’s not true and everyone and their mother in the F2P crowd left us behind)

Oh please, you’re only spouting the junk you are because your sole interest is PvP and you want F2P to cater absolutely to YOUR needs. I paid for all elements in this game and if you are F2P, you don’t get that luxury. Period.

You haven’t given a single decent reason as to why you should have the same benefits in PvP as a paying player other than to continually parrot your idea that PvP should get people into the game when PvP is actually a small part of the game and has never been wicked popular like you seem to think it has been or should be and I’ve been playing it since headstart.

Everything you have to say in your defence is for your personal dislike that as a F2P player, they don’t get everything in PvP. Tough. Cough up the dough like we did, then you can enjoy all those benefits because I have zero sympathy for you, nor would I ever back you. You don’t get to have everything for nothing and act sanctimonious as if the F2P players are saving the game by their mere presence.

You seem to think that core builds stand no chance, well they don’t if you’re an utterly terrible player, but they do if you have some competence in PvP. Having access to HoT specs isn’t suddenly going to turn a scrub into a pro league player.

The entitlement you’re spouting is foul.

Silv.9207:

Before HoT, GW2 alwo was not F2P.
What’s the problem if before F2P GW2 was the perfect game and after HoT that game is immediatly become a “P2W”?
Is then the F2P that make a Perfect game a P2W game?

F2P came in august 2015. We had 3 sec queue time with premade at high mmr.

HoT came in October 2015. We have now soloq rank queue time of 8 min+ more at equal or so MMR.

HoT killed the F2P populations.

I am a B2P guy. I like it. But, F2P is what make spvp popular with big population to get a real match-maker that work.

Compare now to September 2015, spvp is dying.

I want spvp to strive like it was in September 2015. The solution is a F2P experiences that have nothing like Buy to Win associated to it, so F2P players can make our game strive again.

Velimere.7685:

runeblade.7514:

Velimere.7685:

runeblade.7514:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Sorry but u guys don’t deserve the same benefits as those that payed for the game. Some paying even more since they got the deluxe version or limited edition version.

At least you admit it is pay2win.

It’s buy-to-play.

sPvP is free to play with pay2win.

I can play sPvP for free. But if I want to get more power I got to buy the elite specs.

Rated Arena isn’kittens own game in Guild Wars 2 just like Battlegrounds isn’kittens own game in World of Warcraft. In both of these games, you have purchase an expansion to play it. World of Warcraft isn’t pay-to-win, and neither is Guild Wars 2.

Then the opposite is true with your definition.

In F2P mmo, I can buy +1000 power boost in other games in PvP. Therefore the game is not pay2win.

inb4 endless semantics about if it’s B2P or P2W

Oh wait too late sorry

It’s silly to put spvp behind a paywall. It’s a bad idea commercially and narrows the gameplay.. I’ve written several threads on this and won’t be repeating myself here.

But just leaving something here to register your arguments for a paywall as invalid.

You’re welcome.

Phaeton.9582:

inb4 endless semantics about if it’s B2P or P2W

Oh wait too late sorry

It’s silly to put spvp behind a paywall. It’s a bad idea commercially and narrows the gameplay.. I’ve written several threads on this and won’t be repeating myself here.

But just leaving something here to register your arguments for a paywall as invalid.

You’re welcome.

Why do PvP players deserve to play this game for free, while PvE and WvW need to pay for it to play it?
That’s absolutely ridiculous, either all pay or none, period.
Players who bought HoT play the most recent version of the game, the game will obviously be balanced around them, and not around the F2P players who think it is in their right to leech of off others who bought the game.

Dominik.5162:

Phaeton.9582:

inb4 endless semantics about if it’s B2P or P2W

Oh wait too late sorry

It’s silly to put spvp behind a paywall. It’s a bad idea commercially and narrows the gameplay.. I’ve written several threads on this and won’t be repeating myself here.

But just leaving something here to register your arguments for a paywall as invalid.

You’re welcome.

Why do PvP players deserve to play this game for free, while PvE and WvW need to pay for it to play it?
That’s absolutely ridiculous, either all pay or none, period.
Players who bought HoT play the most recent version of the game, the game will obviously be balanced around them, and not around the F2P players who think it is in their right to leech of off others who bought the game.

Then the solution is simple, HoT and free players should be split away from each other.

runeblade.7514:

Dominik.5162:

Phaeton.9582:

inb4 endless semantics about if it’s B2P or P2W

Oh wait too late sorry

It’s silly to put spvp behind a paywall. It’s a bad idea commercially and narrows the gameplay.. I’ve written several threads on this and won’t be repeating myself here.

But just leaving something here to register your arguments for a paywall as invalid.

You’re welcome.

Why do PvP players deserve to play this game for free, while PvE and WvW need to pay for it to play it?
That’s absolutely ridiculous, either all pay or none, period.
Players who bought HoT play the most recent version of the game, the game will obviously be balanced around them, and not around the F2P players who think it is in their right to leech of off others who bought the game.

Then the solution is simple, HoT and free players should be split away from each other.

I hope free players don’t experience horrendous queue times and get a bad impression on game population.

Razor.9872:

runeblade.7514:

Dominik.5162:

Phaeton.9582:

inb4 endless semantics about if it’s B2P or P2W

Oh wait too late sorry

It’s silly to put spvp behind a paywall. It’s a bad idea commercially and narrows the gameplay.. I’ve written several threads on this and won’t be repeating myself here.

But just leaving something here to register your arguments for a paywall as invalid.

You’re welcome.

Why do PvP players deserve to play this game for free, while PvE and WvW need to pay for it to play it?
That’s absolutely ridiculous, either all pay or none, period.
Players who bought HoT play the most recent version of the game, the game will obviously be balanced around them, and not around the F2P players who think it is in their right to leech of off others who bought the game.

Then the solution is simple, HoT and free players should be split away from each other.

I hope free players don’t experience horrendous queue times and get a bad impression on game population.

Funny, some people have the opposite reaction to this solution. They are worried that HoT queue times are bad while free trial players have near instant queue times.

Static.9841:

This thread seriously confuses me. I don’t understand why anyone on F2P thinks they should have the same benefits as anyone who bought the base game and HoT regardless of what game mode that is and if the game is so “beloved” to you, why can’t you spend money actually buying it? The entitlement here is painful.

To say you can’t get anywhere in PvP without HoT specs is also a complete fallacy, because you absolutely can with core builds, but not if you suck as a player.

Lol, entitlement? Are you kidding me? The game is fundamentally flawed and is clearly restricted B2W in the form of the expansions, and you claim entitlement? The entire F2P concept is arbitrary.

I’ve spent probably close to a thousand bucks on this game, if not more. I built a $3000.00 computer solely to play this game with the highest possible fidelity on top of that. I don’t buy gold or legendaries. What I buy goes straight to ANet. AKA, around 10 years of a WoW sub + expansions at highest price. I had a tremendous amount of respect for ANet before HoT, and as such didn’t care about the money. I gave them what I thought they deserved because I support businesses and games I like.

I prefer playing core specs. I actually hate every single elite by design except the reaper, and the elite specs as a consequence introduced so much arbitrary power for no reason that the game is no longer fun and diverse like it was. The fact I see four builds in a majority of encounters in WvW which before had literally everything is more telling than the meta-crawlers and bad balance in sPvP due to the amulet system. HoT is broken, and it broke GW2.

That’s where the real complaint is. It’s not that F2P players can’t win. It’s that GW2 sPvP and WvW are no longer actually fun because diversity is dead in the water and the elite specs are by far and large conceptual failures that are poorly implemented and in many cases, poorly designed. It’s not about entitlement. Quite honestly, 70% of ANet’s revenue at the time of releasing HoT, both before and after constituted gem purchases. ANet makes more than double its box sales from people who want to fund the game they’re enjoying. And ANet’s sales figures right now are the lowest in company history. I stopped buying gems cold with HoT. And I know many other people, people who spent probably $100 a month on this game who also did.

HoT killed the fun elements of sPvP and WvW. The game is totally broken and anyone who simply doesn’t like their profession’s elite is just in a position where either they deal with it or leave.

Telling passionate players that they’re entitled because they’re complaining because they don’t get the same enjoyment from the game before the expansion is foolish and ridiculous.

F2P claims for balance have validity as well from a marketing perspective. Nobody cares about PvP in P2W games because it’s not competitive and something other spectators might get interested in getting involved in. GW2 right now isn’t worth it, both before and after paying for the game. It freezes trial players and makes them run for the hills by being horrible and standing so little chance, and keeps those who may have been interested dissuaded from playing because they’re forced into a specific build in most cases.