Guild Wars 2

So i got 2 screen prints from my last 2 matches. I must admit that ive only had 2 matches in the past 3 days but this is still the point.

So the first screen print is just a basic solo que match but you have 2 diamonds 1 side. This is the start of the problem. You have ruby players who might not belong in ruby and are simply grinding wins. Or you have diamond players that dont belong in in diamond. Or lastly the players on my team shouldnt be ruby. No matter how you want to put it, the PiP system is failing because players are just grinding threw to certain ranks.

Problems with the PiP system

• Unfair match ups
  Just because a player is in sapphire/ruby/diamond/legendary doesnt mean they should be there. If someone is in ruby and they should be in sapphire based on actual ability and they got some good wins to get to this rank, good for them 1 but its forces them into players who might be legendary level players. This is unfair for both players.

• Reward system
  Instead of Anet using this 4-5 year old MM system to make good matches in ranked and give actual goals such as X- wins and X-amount of games played. Even professions based achievements works if its based on playing. Instead the Legendary back pc as well as the other rewards are based on Tier/division progression. So players get frustrated when near a new division/tier and they cant get the win. Also there is no rewards for higher level play, why is this? Is there any reason to play leagues after making the back pc?

• Purpose For leagues
  High level players wanted leagues to actually mean something. They wanted the symbol to actually show that they are a high level PvP player. Currently leagues are not fun for new players coming in struggling to understand a complex conquest style match, different builds from different classes, and trying to grind wins instead of grinding games. Top level players are struggling with build diversity, long que times, and purpose to keep playing past Legendary rank.

For me these are the 3 biggest issues with the league system. I dont know what Anet plans are, maybe after the next season they WvW tournament it and we never see it again. Maybe they scrap it like they did Leader boards. Who knows what the plans are but these issues need addressed.

My 2nd screen shot is just me trying to confirm my reasons. It was a 4 vs 5. We had 2 thieves and 1 dc 3 minutes into the match. So from the 12:10-12:30 mark we were playing 4 vs 5 and won as lower ranking players.

The second screen cap was a close game. But I do agree that the pip system is not showing “skill” at all. It’s showing who can grind out wins. What we need is a score system that places people by games played/win/loss. Then people will find out how good they really are.

BrotherBelial.3094:

The second screen cap was a close game. But I do agree that the pip system is not showing “skill” at all. It’s showing who can grind out wins. What we need is a score system that places people by games played/win/loss. Then people will find out how good they really are.

Just make MMR public, and tie division"to MMR.

That is the best and least complicated manner in which to do all of this.

kdaddy.5431:

• Reward system
  Instead of Anet using this 4-5 year old MM system to make good matches in ranked and give actual goals such as X- wins and X-amount of games played. Even professions based achievements works if its based on playing. Instead the Legendary back pc as well as the other rewards are based on Tier/division progression. So players get frustrated when near a new division/tier and they cant get the win. Also there is no rewards for higher level play, why is this? Is there any reason to play leagues after making the back pc?

I guess most pvp´ers play because it´s fun, at least i do. 0o

I dont play any more or less games since the backpack was released, you shouldn´t expect everyone to dislike pvp. I even changed the skin of my backpack since i found it to look ugly after some hours playing with it. Obviously its only the pve´ers who´s “goal” is the backpack, the core of the pvp players simply play for fun. These are btw the usually winning guys that don´t cry about mm or pips and other useless stuff. :P

BrotherBelial.3094:

The second screen cap was a close game. But I do agree that the pip system is not showing “skill” at all. It’s showing who can grind out wins. What we need is a score system that places people by games played/win/loss. Then people will find out how good they really are.

MMR is more than that. You have more “points” if you beat a good team and less point if you beat a bad team.

So, someone with a win ratio of 55% can have a better MMR than one with 80%. Because the first is always fighting versus top teams, while the latter got smurf in his team and most of theirs fights is versus bad players.

This was in game into 2013-2014… not sure why we regressed so much with our “ranked” competitive play.

People are upset because the skill level of players of the same divisions is way too different.

We have Legendary players that play bad compare to some emerald.

Divisions pairing is bad.
Divisions stucking at first tier is bad.

Grinding games don’t show you are good at the game.

I play less than 5 hours a week now. I am not the best player, but I am way better than many Legendary, right now.

I was playing 30+ hours a week for 3 years before Seasons happens.

I have more fun in unranked but even that, the player based that have skills play other games.

Yeah time changes and pvp in Gw2 is not changing for good.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I guess most pvp´ers play because it´s fun, at least i do. 0o

I dont play any more or less games since the backpack was released, you shouldn´t expect everyone to dislike pvp. I even changed the skin of my backpack since i found it to look ugly after some hours playing with it. Obviously its only the pve´ers who´s “goal” is the backpack, the core of the pvp players simply play for fun. These are btw the usually winning guys that don´t cry about mm or pips and other useless stuff. :P

I enjoy PvP but the matchmaking makes it so that every match is frustrating and not enjoyable to play.

PvP was better pre-HoT before leagues.

Shiyo.3578:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I guess most pvp´ers play because it´s fun, at least i do. 0o

I dont play any more or less games since the backpack was released, you shouldn´t expect everyone to dislike pvp. I even changed the skin of my backpack since i found it to look ugly after some hours playing with it. Obviously its only the pve´ers who´s “goal” is the backpack, the core of the pvp players simply play for fun. These are btw the usually winning guys that don´t cry about mm or pips and other useless stuff. :P

I enjoy PvP but the matchmaking makes it so that every match is frustrating and not enjoyable to play.

PvP was better pre-HoT before leagues.

It´s a random arena if you soloq, of course you will have bad matchups. Next match you will propably have the a better team comp/mates than the opponent, so what?

BrotherBelial.3094:

The second screen cap was a close game. But I do agree that the pip system is not showing “skill” at all. It’s showing who can grind out wins. What we need is a score system that places people by games played/win/loss. Then people will find out how good they really are.

The 2nd screen shot was a 4 vs 5 win.

I put the scoreboard over a team mate saying “even with a dc lol”

So you had 4 rubies beating 2 diamonds and 3 rubys.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

Shiyo.3578:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I guess most pvp´ers play because it´s fun, at least i do. 0o

I dont play any more or less games since the backpack was released, you shouldn´t expect everyone to dislike pvp. I even changed the skin of my backpack since i found it to look ugly after some hours playing with it. Obviously its only the pve´ers who´s “goal” is the backpack, the core of the pvp players simply play for fun. These are btw the usually winning guys that don´t cry about mm or pips and other useless stuff. :P

I enjoy PvP but the matchmaking makes it so that every match is frustrating and not enjoyable to play.

PvP was better pre-HoT before leagues.

It´s a random arena if you soloq, of course you will have bad matchups. Next match you will propably have the a better team comp/mates than the opponent, so what?

But if you queue up all the people you’re Q-dodging (they’re in a higher bracket so they won’t be on your team so may as well duck them) will be just about the only people to face you since teaming up means your MMR gets boosted.

Jourdelune.7456:

BrotherBelial.3094:

The second screen cap was a close game. But I do agree that the pip system is not showing “skill” at all. It’s showing who can grind out wins. What we need is a score system that places people by games played/win/loss. Then people will find out how good they really are.

MMR is more than that. You have more “points” if you beat a good team and less point if you beat a bad team.

So, someone with a win ratio of 55% can have a better MMR than one with 80%. Because the first is always fighting versus top teams, while the latter got smurf in his team and most of theirs fights is versus bad players.

This was in game into 2013-2014… not sure why we regressed so much with our “ranked” competitive play.

That’s why I said games played, I could play 10 games and win 8. Someone could play 20 games and win 8. Better players will have more wins vs loss, sure some players will get “carried” but that is the nature of solo queue. Where as a team as that’s how the league is supposed to be played, because ESports, good teams will beat bad, get more wins vs loss.

People have 2 choices, accept that with out a team they are at the mercy of MM not to land them with the brain-dead out there, or that maybe they just are not as good as they think they are. The pip system is a bad one plain and simple. No other league in the world works on such a system, no real sport anyway.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

kdaddy.5431:

• Reward system
  Instead of Anet using this 4-5 year old MM system to make good matches in ranked and give actual goals such as X- wins and X-amount of games played. Even professions based achievements works if its based on playing. Instead the Legendary back pc as well as the other rewards are based on Tier/division progression. So players get frustrated when near a new division/tier and they cant get the win. Also there is no rewards for higher level play, why is this? Is there any reason to play leagues after making the back pc?

I guess most pvp´ers play because it´s fun, at least i do. 0o

I dont play any more or less games since the backpack was released, you shouldn´t expect everyone to dislike pvp. I even changed the skin of my backpack since i found it to look ugly after some hours playing with it. Obviously its only the pve´ers who´s “goal” is the backpack, the core of the pvp players simply play for fun. These are btw the usually winning guys that don´t cry about mm or pips and other useless stuff. :P

Yes but there are those who want leagues to mean something. For instance some posts are about Legendary que times.

Why would you want to que in legendary?

• To play the best players in the game

• For streaming purposes, for instances i have won a 1 vs 2 on my rifle warrior this season. That wouldnt help people learn about the game when the opponent is not very good.

• For those who have a competitive itch and do not not have the time to find a team to compete in the AG/ESL scene.

These are just 3 reasons why high level play is struggling. Of course you want to play for fun. Im trying to look at it from all perspectives though. I have over 7k games played not including time spent in scrimmages and 1 vs 1/ 2 vs 2 private rooms after PvP patches.

Now try and ask these ESL players who have 15k + games played and who spend alot of time on this game. When you say Esports you are involving money now. ESL level players should have a chance to stream and talk about all the different aspects from team strats to individual keys to winning matches.

The word is incentive. There is no incentive for good players to keep playing since there is no INCENTIVE from any aspect to keep playing. Que times are too long, bad match making for top level players so you cant see good matches on there streams, rewards are bad. There are alot of things that are fun, GW2 gave us a PvP league and the people playing in it have no reason to continue playing at any skill level.

I just want good matches again. Gambling with my ranked MMR knowing there are vastly better teams in my pip range than the teams I get is not fun.

see, an mmr system is okay but open to griefers who will purposely chain lose games to lower their mmr and absolutely destroy lower mmr players, what we need is something more along these lines

division+mmr system
basically, the division system is a good system, but needs tweaking. in comes mmr to supplement it. basically, your overall mmr is what matters most but your division will determine who you play against.

amber division, cant lose pips or tiers
emerald division, can lose pips cant lose tiers
sapphire-legendary divisions, can lose pips and tiers

and no bloody win streaks awarding more or less pips or whatever. 1 win = 1 pip, 1 loss = 1 lost pip. end of story.

amber and emerald we only ever want queueing against amber and emerald division players because they’re going to be the most likely to be a similar skill level

sapphire queues against sapphire and ruby

ruby queues against sapphire, ruby, diamond

diamond queues against ruby, diamond, legendary

legendary queues against diamond, legendary

now what youre gonna want to do is to get all the individual mmr of the players. group 1 and 2. say group 1 is a guild team that play together, right? so you either pair them against another guild team in a similar division with a similar overall mmr OR you pair them with solo or smaller group queue players in a similar division with a similar overall mmr.

what this does is basically the team players who are really good at doing what they do will be paired to play against either another team with a similar division/mmr OR a group of random players who are pretty much god mode somehow. this naturally creates sort of a team queue within the queue system we have now, but is more flexible.

this, i feel, will help keep both solo queue and group play more balanced and fair.

now onto the other part of low division/mmr players playing with another player outside of their division/mmr range. group them up, thats okay. say for instance an amber division player who just started rank play and won a few games will have relatively high mmr but low division and they grouped with a sapphire division player with about mid range mmr. that amber will be queueing into the sapphire division range, but the mmr will help to balance that game. basically, that amber player will have their mmr estimated depending on their win/loss pattern and what they were matched up against and then it will sort of assign them a temporary mmr to be able to queue with that sapphire division player

its not a perfect system, by far. there are many tweaks and things to think about there. but i feel that a system that utilises both mmr and the division system to supplement each other is the best course of action. thoughts? opinions?

Reknarok.7582:

amber division, cant lose pips or tiers
emerald division, can lose pips cant lose tiers
sapphire-legendary divisions, can lose pips and tiers

I mean, if you want to rework the concept of leagues so it actually means something, get rid of safestops starting from amber.

At this point, amber doesn’t mean anything. It just means people who haven’t played enough games. This could be a bad player, or a new player just starting out. Make it so you can lose pips AND tiers in every single division.

No more players grinding 200+ games just for that 1 lucky streak of 5 wins in a row while losing the other 195. If they’re losing all those games, they drop until they can’t drop anymore.

Vicky.4563:

Reknarok.7582:

amber division, cant lose pips or tiers
emerald division, can lose pips cant lose tiers
sapphire-legendary divisions, can lose pips and tiers

I mean, if you want to rework the concept of leagues so it actually means something, get rid of safestops starting from amber.

At this point, amber doesn’t mean anything. It just means people who haven’t played enough games. This could be a bad player, or a new player just starting out. Make it so you can lose pips AND tiers in every single division.

No more players grinding 200+ games just for that 1 lucky streak of 5 wins in a row while losing the other 195. If they’re losing all those games, they drop until they can’t drop anymore.

tbh i agree with you, i just figured that at least in amber new players can sort of get their bearings and really start to enjoy pvp before they start “losing progress”

with an mmr system supplementing, losing wont do them any favours anyway. but i see where youre coming from

The pip League system is working as intended because the system is Anet’s goal. Whether or not we agree with it is of course debatable.

• Casuals can reach Legendary through grinding enough games so they’re not stuck in a division that doesn’t mean anything.
• Elitists reaches the higher divisions quicker, essentially getting better games, in theory.

The “i’m stuck with bad players” mentality is the same as Overwatch beleive it or not. Players in that game are getting frustrated for the same reasons as GW2 and they have 100x the polulation. The games are similiar in that 1 player can’t carry a team so you’re dependant on how each player plays.

Matchmaking is what the majority here complains about rather than the actual pip League system. Stacking classes needs to go.

Saiyan.1704:

The pip League system is working as intended because the system is Anet’s goal. Whether or not we agree with it is of course debatable.

• Casuals can reach Legendary through grinding enough games so they’re not stuck in a division that doesn’t mean anything.
• Elitists reaches the higher divisions quicker, essentially getting better games, in theory.

The “i’m stuck with bad players” mentality is the same as Overwatch beleive it or not. Players in that game are getting frustrated for the same reasons as GW2 and they have 100x the polulation. The games are similiar in that 1 player can’t carry a team so you’re dependant on how each player plays.

Matchmaking is what the majority here complains about rather than the actual pip League system. Stacking classes needs to go.

I dont find class stacking to be a problem. Its only a problem when you lose.

For instance in the matches i posted. The 4 vs 5 win we had me (rifle warrior) a engy, a ranger and 2 thieves. The other team has a mesmer, ele, warrior, rev and a engy. We won and they had the higher ranks.

Ive had matches where the team targeted the ele and we couldnt kill that ele. Then i get mad and say you dont target the ele first. Next match same thing happens, we target the ele first and he/she dies instantly.

Ive come to learn from these leagues that it has nothing to do with classes but the people playing them. In season 1 i had 2 ESL thieves on my team. I ran MM necro and there was 1 engy and 1 ele on our team. The other team was a premade of 2 mesmer 1 rev, and 2 pugs with a DH and ele. We won and this was the bunker meta, with the DH counter to thief meta.

Like i said at the start, i truly feel players are trying to reach a division to get a reward/ claim to how good they are when 95% of players in this game are delusional. Fixing class stacking will not fix the fact that other players are better at the same builds and rotations.

We have players posting their losing streaks of 10,20, and more. Yet we have a PiP system that will still force them to play players with in the same pip range. Thats not class stacking, thats not being as good as the other teams players and no way of getting better matches.

Saiyan.1704:

The pip League system is working as intended because the system is Anet’s goal. Whether or not we agree with it is of course debatable.

• Casuals can reach Legendary through grinding enough games so they’re not stuck in a division that doesn’t mean anything.
• Elitists reaches the higher divisions quicker, essentially getting better games, in theory.

The “i’m stuck with bad players” mentality is the same as Overwatch beleive it or not. Players in that game are getting frustrated for the same reasons as GW2 and they have 100x the polulation. The games are similiar in that 1 player can’t carry a team so you’re dependant on how each player plays.

Matchmaking is what the majority here complains about rather than the actual pip League system. Stacking classes needs to go.

^ This

Reikou.7068:

BrotherBelial.3094:

The second screen cap was a close game. But I do agree that the pip system is not showing “skill” at all. It’s showing who can grind out wins. What we need is a score system that places people by games played/win/loss. Then people will find out how good they really are.

Just make MMR public, and tie division"to MMR.

That is the best and least complicated manner in which to do all of this.

+1000