Guild Wars 2

If a build does not win 1v1s against strong opponents or help quickly conclude teamfights in your team’s favor, why run it?

masochism?
/15 chars

they should know this before they join soloq. this is just irritating.

It doesn’t matter if it’s bad or not. It’s soloQ aka every man for himself. TeamArena is here for a reason.

Because it’s what I prefer playing.

it’s ok when you see 1 ele on your team but if there are 3 of them, you just know what’s gonna happen. lol

depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:

Initial Defense Rating (IDR)

A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.

6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist

Based on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?

To practice and learn your class better while understanding why some builds are so much better.

I agree that people should not expect a bad build to do good just because. But there is also value in playing a profession/build that is currently not on the top. People who only play the current best spec are usually a step behind, learning the new flavor of the month on the 29th of each month.

Also, the creativity needed to change the meta instead of just following it usually doesn’t come from rolling warrior just because they’re the easiest to succeed with.

jmatb.6307:

depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:

Initial Defense Rating (IDR)

A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.

6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist

Based on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?

This is innacurate. Survivability is maybe 10% vit, 20% toughness, 30% boon spam (prot vigour regen) and 40% sustain. Your chart is only taking into account a small part of what “survivability” is. Besides it also assumes that everyone runs around with no amulet and no traits.

A few reasons.

1. I’m having fun.
2. Build is still being worked on.
3. Trying something new.

Reason 1 is simple. I’m playing a game, I want to have fun. If that means playing glass cannon staff ele, then I’m going to play glass cannon staff ele. SoloQ, especially right now when ranks are entirely meaningless, should be about having fun.

Reason 2 just means my build might be okay in theory, but it still needs tuning before it doesn’t suck. Therefore I’m playing soloQ to work out the kinks in the build.

Reason 3 is simply I don’t feel like playing the meta, so I’ll try something new. Its the only way things progress. If people only ever played what was strong we wouldn’t have discoveries. It also means that for every new great build, there are tens (or more) of builds that completely suck. Its a trade off.

1. May be what I enjoy most
2. Good enough to run it regardless
3. Might be experimenting
4. What’s in atm may be something that really bores me
5. Might need a chance of pace after running the same thing multiple times.
6. Forgot to switch

Eg for 4. I’ll probably never play Necro, have 4 games on Necro since Launch, as OP as they get, I can’t get into it past the Axe which isn’t that great in itself and literally the moment I weapon swap I want to delete the profession out of boredom. I have no idea how anyone plays Necro without preffering to alt+f4 and watch the paint dry within 15 seconds of touching the profession but to each their own.

WHile right now condi-fear-spam necro is really strong, clutter-screen-one-key-wins necros and rangers, S/D thieves and perma-stunlocked warrior are really strong, I find those 4 classes too boring for me, hence why I dont play them.

Despite the fact that ele are the worst class in the game I still stick with them out of pure masochistic love and the fact that I really like that class, I wouldnt play this game otherwise, guardians might come close second.

All ele pros abandoned the game or rerolled the class but Im still hoping [I know in vain] that maybe one day, on the next 2-3 years, eles might get to be decent. A man can only hope.

jmatb.6307:

6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist

Thats one way of interpreting it.
Here is another to show you that different interpretation yield different results:

• 1 point of Toughness has the same value as 1 point of Armor.
• 1 point of Vitality has the same value as 10 point of Health.

Based on these and taking 920 Armor and 10805 Health as base:

• Warrior gets 1047 free points (291 Toughness, 756 Vitality)
• Necromancer gets 756 free points (0 Toughness, 756 Vitality)
• Engineer gets 571 free points (144 Toughness, 427 Vitality)
• Ranger gets 571 free points (144 Toughness, 427 Vitality)
• Mesmer gets 427 free points (0 Toughness, 427 Vitality)
• Guardian gets 291 free points (291 Toughness, 0 Vitality)
• Thief gets 144 free points (144 Toughness, 0 Vitality)
• Elementalist gets 0 free points (0 Toughness, 0 Vitality)

In the end those numbers (and yours as well) don’t mean a thing. As others have said before, you can’t compare the classes in GW2 based on their numbers alone.

Notice how low Guardian ranks on the table, yet it is one of the most survivable classes.

Writetyper.1985:

jmatb.6307:

depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:

Initial Defense Rating (IDR)

A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.

6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist

Based on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?

This is innacurate. Survivability is maybe 10% vit, 20% toughness, 30% boon spam (prot vigour regen) and 40% sustain. Your chart is only taking into account a small part of what “survivability” is. Besides it also assumes that everyone runs around with no amulet and no traits.

This chart goes over initial defense you get for free just for choosing the class. I know you get more survival from vigor, prot, high healing/second, etc. but the free armor and health you get from choosing a class isn’t insignificant. 100/300 extra armor and/or 4000/7000 health don’t matter? lol

In solo queue, you’re not getting coordinated team play so its more effective to pick classes that have better base values imo

maybe because not everyone likes being a sheep and they try to be so lucky to find a great new countermeta build that could mend their soul in this game.

jmatb.6307:

depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:

Initial Defense Rating (IDR)

A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.

6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist

Based on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?

The difference between light and heavy is 300 toughness. That is a completely useless chart, and it doesn’t take into account actual class abilities. Were warriors the most tanky class 6 months ago? Nope, they were probably in the bottom three squishiest. BUT TOP ARMOR GUYS

Fortus.6175:

All ele pros abandoned the game or rerolled the class but Im still hoping [I know in vain] that maybe one day, on the next 2-3 years, eles might get to be decent. A man can only hope.

You poor dramatic baby.

Larynx.2453:

Fortus.6175:

All ele pros abandoned the game or rerolled the class but Im still hoping [I know in vain] that maybe one day, on the next 2-3 years, eles might get to be decent. A man can only hope.

You poor dramatic baby.

Hmm, lets see, amount of eles in the last MLG….. was it 3, nah, 2, no way, maybe 1, no way, it couldnt have been, OH, 0, yep, zero.

Amount of viable builds; hmm, about 1/2, if you count gimmick scepter. But it is ok, we are gonna buff all classes, then to compensate we are buffing conjures weapons, because that will defintiely fix our core problem; survival outside water/arcane-totally-useless-since-all-you-do-is-trying-to-pull-your-weight-in-a-match-and-thus-become-a-drag-your-team.

If you have a better argument and proves to back it up, please enlight us all, but I hav e the MLG graph, personal record and much more, you have….yep, nothing.

A MLG graph
I lol’d.

Fortus.6175:

All ele pros abandoned the game or rerolled the class but Im still hoping [I know in vain] that maybe one day, on the next 2-3 years, eles might get to be decent. A man can only hope.

How long ago were Warriors moaning about how bad their class was and that ANet should just delete the class because it will never be good (insert more QQ moaning BS here)? Now where are they?

Eles had their time being completely broken, now they aren’t. Move along and quit QQing, either reroll or suck it up until you’re back in the limelight again.

Larynx.2453:

jmatb.6307:

depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:

Initial Defense Rating (IDR)

A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.

6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist

Based on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?

The difference between light and heavy is 300 toughness. That is a completely useless chart, and it doesn’t take into account actual class abilities. Were warriors the most tanky class 6 months ago? Nope, they were probably in the bottom three squishiest. BUT TOP ARMOR GUYS

That was when Warriors had terrible sustain and no amount of healing power helped with that. It’s late 2013 now lol

300 toughness does make a difference. The strong LB/Hammer warrior build has about 2.5k armor with only 1381 toughness, with zerker ammy. That’s really strong vs. direct damage builds, considering that you match their dmg output with much more defense.

The little things add up…

Because they’re most fun and/or challenging to me.

in sPvP there is no point. in WvW maybe because it costs money to regear another toon….

But yes in sPvP I believe you should play whatever is the best and right now that is warrior (about to get baffed again). glhf

I presume when you say “Bad builds” you also mean the classes that are not viable and the previously effective builds that are no longer effective due to cheese.

I posted this in your other topic but I felt the last part was prob more on topic here so I’m just gonna copy paste myself:

When the game finally gets equalized and diversity makes it so you have to actually work for your win even with meta builds, then a lot of these players are just gonna end up at the bottom of the well.

Same thing happened with Zerg rushing in original Starcraft before it was nerfed, it was easy to do and very effective. People could climb the ladder pretty fast. Then since they couldn’t actually play properly and the easy strategy was nerfed they ended up unable to play at all in the long run and saw their rank fall.
(slight edit)
If I had to guess as to “Why people are running bad builds”. I’d presume the players are also playing for longevity, knowing that what they are playing now will be viable in the future when it wont just be easy mode.

I’m luckily more tolerant. And can win and enjoy even with less viable builds due to the meta. But I can sympathize with the people who feel like they are getting completely screwed.

Cheese is a funny word. I used to use it. A better way to say that is “better than my build” LOL.

I’m pretty sure people are gonna say that a lot to me. All I’m gonna say back is, “How does my cheese taste?!”

jmatb.6307:

Cheese is a funny word. I used to use it. A better way to say that is “better than my build” LOL.

I’m pretty sure people are gonna say that a lot to me. All I’m gonna say back is, “How does my cheese taste?!”

Funny thing I was debating that word with myself, since it doesn’t actually feel like cheese to me, but I’m bias because I’m not hard countered by to many things that I can’t escape and fight again in a more advantages time.

I knew you’d comment on it, but I couldn’t think of a term that would be better, or at the very lease relate able to the community’s perspective.

That being said I think my main point still stands. And the example is pretty similar to the situation GW2 is heading.

ensoriki.5789:

A MLG graph
I lol’d.

It is very easy to disregard solid proofs, but I want to remind you that warriors and necros got buffed for this very same reason; they had no representation in higher rank playing. Whether you choose to admit it or not, people participating at MLG are better than you and me, and know what they are doing most of the time. If absolutely none of them decided to bring an ele, that tells a whole world about their state. When the entire community admits it too I think we have something that is quite obvious; we are either being purposely neglected or Anet is too slow to act on time.

Bhawb.7408:

Fortus.6175:

All ele pros abandoned the game or rerolled the class but Im still hoping [I know in vain] that maybe one day, on the next 2-3 years, eles might get to be decent. A man can only hope.

How long ago were Warriors moaning about how bad their class was and that ANet should just delete the class because it will never be good (insert more QQ moaning BS here)? Now where are they?

Eles had their time being completely broken, now they aren’t. Move along and quit QQing, either reroll or suck it up until you’re back in the limelight again.

This goes for you too, infantile forum goer. If you think a game balance should be about spotlights then you may abandon the forums. A respectable game wshould not have cycles of OP and UP classes, but rather try to strike a middle ground for most of them. There is no such thing as perfect balance, but while warriors did need their buffs, so does eles now. I see a heavy hatred for eles in your tone, Im sure they touched you in places and thus you dont want to see them ever again because of said memories.

But for the health of the game I think we can both agree you and all the ele “haters” have to let go of those childish arguments like; “QQ!” or “you had your spotlight, suck it up!”. The game will never achieve anything if you dont collaborate towards the greater good, believe it or not, you are actually contributing to its downfall.

Like I said, if a class is UP, buff it where it needs, if it is OP then nerf it where it needs it. No need for drama, trauma, hatred, spite. Just plain balance. I assure you people will start taking MLG and other esport competitions seriously.

Its easy to disregard that evidence and proof are not the same thing.
Eles not being represented in a tournament can serve as supporting evidence to a claim of them being underparts however it doesn’t prove it. I don’t disagree that the else is somewhat underwhelming relative to others but a MLG graph isn’t proof it doesn’t prove anything. Multiple players have class hangups on what they will and will not play.

You have been a broken record for more than a month without need given that Anet at their pace has addressed multiple times professions being underwhelming.

ensoriki.5789:

Its easy to disregard that evidence and proof are not the same thing.
Eles not being represented in a tournament can serve as supporting evidence to a claim of them being underparts however it doesn’t prove it. I don’t disagree that the else is somewhat underwhelming relative to others but a MLG graph isn’t proof it doesn’t prove anything. Multiple players have class hangups on what they will and will not play.

You have been a broken record for more than a month without need given that Anet at their pace has addressed multiple times professions being underwhelming.

Incorrect, it hasnt been a month, I have been giving constructive criticism since 2 month since release, I played since day -2, but waited to test all classes and learning them before saying anything. Staff ele has been unviable since day 1, pure and simple.

You speak of unviable class, yet, all the classes have one fully viable specc; rangers have spirit ranger, thieves have Sw/D, warriors have just about all weapons, but worth mentioning stunlock warrior, necros have conditionmancer, minionmancer, bunkermancer, guardians have shining-armor-knight-save-them-all, engis have burst engi, condi engi, bunker engi, mesmers’ shatters are still one of the best duelist in the game. Eles used to have D/D, not anymore, now we have a half viable build; scepter/D or F, which has incredible burst, yes, but what else beyond that? nothing. Nothing at all. Hence why they are not high-ranking worthy.

Turn your face away from the truth. I dont care how tired you get from me and many others stating the obvious, but until we keep getting ignored, we are going to keep shouting. Warriors and necros made ruckus and got their things. We shouldnt we do the same, it worked for them.

There is a saying in my laguage that goes;

“Niño que no llora, no mama”

loosely translated; “Baby that doesnt cry doesnt get milk”

The build might be fun and require skill ?

is not that builds, are bad.. they just get outplayed by the braindead spam spam builds anet keeps creating so players aren’t required to know how to play the game.

jmatb.6307:

If a build does not win 1v1s against strong opponents or help quickly conclude teamfights in your team’s favor, why run it?

Because it is a bunker build.

Because against class X/build Y, class A/build B loses a lot of efficiency and cannot conclude team fights as quickly.

jmatb.6307:

If a build does not win 1v1s against strong opponents or help quickly conclude teamfights in your team’s favor, why run it?

Because leaderboards are kittened up since months ago and noone really give a kitten bout them so many just play what they like……..thanks god, otherwise we would just see wars,necros, spirit rangers and s\d thieves there spamming random kitten all over the place….and please….no

[/quote] Eg for 4. I’ll probably never play Necro, have 4 games on Necro since Launch, as OP as they get, I can’t get into it past the Axe which isn’t that great in itself and literally the moment I weapon swap I want to delete the profession out of boredom. I have no idea how anyone plays Necro without preffering to alt+f4 and watch the paint dry within 15 seconds of touching the profession but to each their own.

[/quote]

I play a power Necro, I use an Axe and kill lot’s and lot’s of players. Lots. It’s fun. Especially fun when you kill a Hammer/Mace+Shield or Hammer/Longbow warrior who thinks they can just roll their face across the keyboard to kill you. I out play them, kite CC, interrupt, stuff that takes thought and timing.

Do people say I’m playing a bad build because I’m not using conditions…yep. Do I regularly finish top of the scoreboard…Yep. Sure I can play one of the cookie cutter FOTM builds, but they are boring and don’t require skill. Until aNet change things, I’ll keep playing “bad” builds thanks.

ensoriki.5789:

Eg for 4. I’ll probably never play Necro, have 4 games on Necro since Launch, as OP as they get, I can’t get into it past the Axe which isn’t that great in itself and literally the moment I weapon swap I want to delete the profession out of boredom. I have no idea how anyone plays Necro without preffering to alt+f4 and watch the paint dry within 15 seconds of touching the profession but to each their own.

I play a power Necro, I use an Axe and kill lot’s and lot’s of players. Lots. It’s fun. Especially fun when you kill a Hammer/Mace+Shield or Hammer/Longbow warrior who thinks they can just roll their face across the keyboard to kill you. I out play them, kite CC, interrupt, stuff that takes thought and timing.

Do people say I’m playing a bad build because I’m not using conditions…yep. Do I regularly finish top of the scoreboard…Yep. Sure I can play one of the cookie cutter FOTM builds, but they are boring and don’t require skill. Until aNet change things, I’ll keep playing “bad” builds.

At this point, people are eschewing playing the cheese builds in order to get a head start on the coming meta change.

Hammerheart.1426:

At this point, people are eschewing playing the cheese builds in order to get a head start on the coming meta change.

Exactly. Even if you care about nothing but winning, if you constantly reroll to the current OP build, you’re likely to always be a step behind everyone else.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hammerheart.1426:

At this point, people are eschewing playing the cheese builds in order to get a head start on the coming meta change.

Exactly. Even if you care about nothing but winning, if you constantly reroll to the current OP build, you’re likely to always be a step behind everyone else.

That depends on how OP the OP builds are. Back when pre-nerf dhuumfire necros were EVERYWHERE I was forced to reroll from condi engi. When that happens it sucks. I know it happens and sometimes you just gotta accept it.

I understand that you guys LOVE playing your OP builds, but let’s be real, you’re not challenged by hammer longbow are you? Don’t the kills feel like you don’t deserve them and you won by heal sig and perma-stuns alone? That’s what I feel like when I play one.

Whenever I start losing faith in engi I go play hammer/longbow and think I’d rather play engi because it’s not boring as hell.

ensoriki.5789:

A MLG graph
I lol’d.

I think he is referring to the graph I created here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/MLG-Tourney-Representation-Graph/first#post2959693

Thanks fortus!!!

Ostricheggs.3742:

I understand that you guys LOVE playing your OP builds, but let’s be real, you’re not challenged by hammer longbow are you? Don’t the kills feel like you don’t deserve them and you won by heal sig and perma-stuns alone? That’s what I feel like when I play one.

Whenever I start losing faith in engi I go play hammer/longbow and think I’d rather play engi because it’s not boring as hell.

qft

Loco.4561:

ensoriki.5789:

Eg for 4. I’ll probably never play Necro, have 4 games on Necro since Launch, as OP as they get, I can’t get into it past the Axe which isn’t that great in itself and literally the moment I weapon swap I want to delete the profession out of boredom. I have no idea how anyone plays Necro without preffering to alt+f4 and watch the paint dry within 15 seconds of touching the profession but to each their own.

I play a power Necro, I use an Axe and kill lot’s and lot’s of players. Lots. It’s fun. Especially fun when you kill a Hammer/Mace+Shield or Hammer/Longbow warrior who thinks they can just roll their face across the keyboard to kill you. I out play them, kite CC, interrupt, stuff that takes thought and timing.

Do people say I’m playing a bad build because I’m not using conditions…yep. Do I regularly finish top of the scoreboard…Yep. Sure I can play one of the cookie cutter FOTM builds, but they are boring and don’t require skill. Until aNet change things, I’ll keep playing “bad” builds.

It doesn’t matter what build you use in hotjoin though…it doesn’t count lol.

instead of asking why play bad builds just ask why play the elementalist?

Anyways, there is a lot of reason to play supposedly “bad” builds:
1. testing the build.
2. Like the class aka play an ele
3. You create anew build and eventually will become the meta.

What’s It To You?

Why let the meta dictate what everyone should play?
Just asking the way you did is rude and if you want to win that bad grab a team and coordinate, noone in soloqueue gives a flying fork about your idea of good or bad build.

People that play bad builds are generally uniformed very casual players. Even the weakest classes have best of type builds with a few minor personal touches the player can choose to add. There is little that can be done about it. If matchmaking actually worked it wouldn’t be a problem they eventually would lose a lot and end up facing other people who just want to run whatever whether it works or not.

jmatb.6307:

depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:

Initial Defense Rating (IDR)

A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.

6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist

Based on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?

I laughed when Guardians were beneath Warriors.
Your scoring system in no way reflects the survivability of any profession.

jmatb.6307:

If a build does not win 1v1s against strong opponents or help quickly conclude teamfights in your team’s favor, why run it?

Do you know what a Bunker is?

Do you know what “Initial” means?

1: of or relating to the beginning : incipient <his initial reaction>
2: placed at the beginning : first <the initial word of the verse>

Do you see Total Survivability anywhere in the post?

Yes I know what a bunker is, and that only works in organized groups where the rest of the team are focusing on their targets.

Regen Warriors, for example, play with their kitten all match and if you focus on killing the rest of their teammates, like smart people do, they are useless.

The scoring is based on what you get for choosing the class in terms of free armor and health. It does not mean that Warrior > Guardian > Ele or w/e you read it as incorrectly

jmatb.6307:

If a build does not win 1v1s against strong opponents or help quickly conclude teamfights in your team’s favor, why run it?

Because, you know, there is only one way to tell whether a build is good or bad.

PLAY IT.

If not, go back in the herd and play builds somebody else played. This way you’ll always be a subpar player. That is not play to win. It’s just avoid people making fun of you.

Ostricheggs.3742:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hammerheart.1426:

At this point, people are eschewing playing the cheese builds in order to get a head start on the coming meta change.

Exactly. Even if you care about nothing but winning, if you constantly reroll to the current OP build, you’re likely to always be a step behind everyone else.

That depends on how OP the OP builds are. Back when pre-nerf dhuumfire necros were EVERYWHERE I was forced to reroll from condi engi. When that happens it sucks. I know it happens and sometimes you just gotta accept it.

I understand that you guys LOVE playing your OP builds, but let’s be real, you’re not challenged by hammer longbow are you? Don’t the kills feel like you don’t deserve them and you won by heal sig and perma-stuns alone? That’s what I feel like when I play one.

Whenever I start losing faith in engi I go play hammer/longbow and think I’d rather play engi because it’s not boring as hell.

But what if I invent a build that is easy to play, which is really strong and nobody uses it? Can I be proud because I invented it?

jmatb.6307:

depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:

Initial Defense Rating (IDR)

A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.

6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist

Based on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?

This table is not completely useless:

Even before warrior’s buffs, it tells you how viable are hybrid builds.

With hybrid builds I mean those builds who deal considerable amount of damage (less than glass cannons, but high enough to reliably kill people) while retaining some tankiness (AKA: taking many hits before you go down).

IMHO warriors has always been one of the best choices for this kind of playstyle. But you had to know how to min/max well to make them work. I think it was more fun than to just run full berserker. Now it’s easier, because you have healing signet which increases your survivability by a lot.

Another thing you’d have to take into account is Fury uptime and accessibility of might or protection for each class (you can live without too much precision if you have fury always on, or can maintain 20 stacks of might and you can live without too much armor if you have wide access to protection), but that might be harder.

I often ponder this question myself. I always attempt to transition to what I feel will be the strongest build/class at any given time.

Divinity.8041:

Loco.4561:

ensoriki.5789:

Eg for 4. I’ll probably never play Necro, have 4 games on Necro since Launch, as OP as they get, I can’t get into it past the Axe which isn’t that great in itself and literally the moment I weapon swap I want to delete the profession out of boredom. I have no idea how anyone plays Necro without preffering to alt+f4 and watch the paint dry within 15 seconds of touching the profession but to each their own.

I play a power Necro, I use an Axe and kill lot’s and lot’s of players. Lots. It’s fun. Especially fun when you kill a Hammer/Mace+Shield or Hammer/Longbow warrior who thinks they can just roll their face across the keyboard to kill you. I out play them, kite CC, interrupt, stuff that takes thought and timing.

Do people say I’m playing a bad build because I’m not using conditions…yep. Do I regularly finish top of the scoreboard…Yep. Sure I can play one of the cookie cutter FOTM builds, but they are boring and don’t require skill. Until aNet change things, I’ll keep playing “bad” builds.

It doesn’t matter what build you use in hotjoin though…it doesn’t count lol.

Don’t jump to conclusions, I wasn’t talking about hotjoin, hotjoin is for testing builds etc… and quite rightly doesn’t count. I play solo tournies and team tournies (if I can ever find anyone to play in a team). I do still get people asking me to re-spec to conditions or saying I’m under performing using a non FOTM cookie cutter build, I disagree. I can bunker a point just as well in my power build as I could in a condition build.

are FUN or COMFORTABLE ever be in your consideration when you are playing a GAME?