Why Solo Queue is a Bad Idea

Why Solo Queue is a Bad Idea

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Posted by: manveruppd.7601

manveruppd.7601

I know I’m going terribly against the general sentiment of this forum here, but having read that developers are indeed working on a solo queue mode, I find it necessary to voice some of my concerns about the idea.

Having no regular team myself, I fully understand the frustrations of being a disorganised pug and being matched against a premade. An organised team with voice comms will outplay a pug at every turn, using communication to dominate the map and run circles around you. Moreover, solo queue luck of the draw means that you’ll often get sub-par allies, and I’ve often suffered from clueless teammates, ragequitters, etc. I’m saying this so that you all know this isn’t coming from some top-ranked elitist worried that he’ll run out of puny pugs to destroy: I mostly play solo queue, and I’m not even any good as an individual player (74% on the rankings table right now). I’d probably be better ranked in a solo queue, but, even though it would be in my interest, I don’t think such a thing should exist, and this is why:

Firstly, I think it goes against the ethos of the game. The fact of the matter is that this format is a team game. The team with the best communications is SUPPOSED to have an advantage. People who are interested in competitive gaming seriously should realize and accept this, and understand that if you want to be competitive you need to get a team. The game simply isn’t all about individual skill, it’s also about teamwork, and to ask for a solo queue is to ask for this component to be removed simply because you can’t compete in it. That just goes against the ethos of the competitive PvPer: if you can’t be king of the hill, you find another way to the top – you don’t demand that another, smaller hill be built just for you!

The second reason is related to the first: I’m unclear how the rankings would be affected by the introduction of the solo queue. Would there be a separate leaderboard for solo queuers (the “smaller hill”)? Or would the solo queuers remain on the same rankings ladder, thereby devaluing the skill and hard work of the top-ranked teams when the better solo queuers started to aggregate enough rating to rise to the same levels as the top teams without ever having played them?

Thirdly, I have a very practical concern about how people who join the queue as 2s or 3s will be dealt with. From personal experience and observation there are A LOT of these “part-premades” around – much more than there are full teams. I do it too, because sometimes it’s easier to get a friend or two who happen to be online than to round up a whole team. So what would happen to these people? If they can only join the “normal” team queue, where will they get the random puggies to round out their numbers from? If they’re allowed to join the solo queue as part-premades, won’t the solo queuers (justifiably) complain that they’re exploiting the system and gaining an advantage? Or will it simply become impossible to join as 2s, 3s or 4s, and we’ll only be able to join either as individuals or full teams? The latter would, in my opinion, be an absolute disaster for the community, as that is how people find teammates! They get a friend and play some games together. They notice one of their teammates is really good, so they invite him to their party and join as a 3. Soon they’ve found a 4th, then a 5th, they win some games, add each other to their friends lists, and maybe after a few more evenings playing together they start a guild together and join as a team! To make the entry requirement for team tournaments “5 or nothing” is to put the bar extremely high considering how large a part of the community still play solo!

My final concern is possibly the most important one: there just aren’t enough teams around! Making a separate solo queue will mean huge waiting times for anyone still playing as a team, which will lead to people getting bored and quitting. It will also be very harsh on new teams, as, with no low-rated pug teams around for them to practice on, starting out in the team tournaments will be a baptism of fire! They’ll be thrown in against Made in Meta and Team Paradigm on their first game, and after a few dispiriting losses, they’ll go back to solo queue.

So, the tl;dr is: 1. it’s just wrong, get a team or suck it up, 2. What about the leaderboards? 3. Where would the duos go? 4. there aren’t enough teams!

A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.

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Posted by: manveruppd.7601

manveruppd.7601

But let’s be fair: I did acknowledge that there are problems for solo queuers in the game. I’ve said why I think the most popular and widely-requested solution would be a disastrous idea, but I’d just be contrarian doomsayer if I don’t offer any constructive alternative solutions, right?

Well, the truth is, I don’t really think we need other solutions. Sure, I lose A LOT of matches (current win rate 53%), and a lot of them due to being matched against premades or due to teammates ragequitting when they see 3 warriors in our party or whatever. But I think that as the ratings table settles down, with everyone near their true skill level, this will become less of an issue. The good, organised teams will be ranked far above me, so I’ll rarely get matched against them. If I do get matched up against a premade, it must mean that they’re such terrible players that not even having a pre-built team and voice comms on their side were enough to raise them from the roughly-74% ratings mark. I’ve beaten a few premades with a pug, and I’m sure it happens to everyone in this forum from time to time. And that’s because teamwork is only part of the skill you need to win at this –the larger part by far is individual skill. If you cultivate that, then coming up against a premade is not an auto-lose, not by a long shot!

But ok, you say, maybe you’re happy with your pathetic 74% rank, but I’m not! I want to make it all the way to the leaderboards, all the way to the top 10! Well, in that case there IS a solution: GET A TEAM! Everyone can get a team! Add competent people that you’ve played with to your friends list. Next time you’re both on ask them if you want to join as a duo. Add even more people to your list – eventually you’ll have enough to start a team! Or, if (like me) you’re in a guild with very few PvPers in it, run some training nights. Sure, it’ll tank your rating at first. But some of them might love PvP so much they’ll start practicing obsessively, get really good, and soon those former-noobs will be carrying YOU to an even higher rating than before! And if you want to go straight to the top, hang out in custom arenas: a lot of the top guilds use their custom arenas as recruitment tools, playing with and observing random puggies. And that, in fact, brings me to the final solution: hotjoin! There, everyone’s a solo queuer, so the field is even! It doesn’t matter if someone disconnects or ragequits, as someone else will join, or the system will autobalance. It truly is the most pvp fun for the least hassle! And don’t make the mistake of thinking you’re too good for hotjoin either – the standard of play has gone up a lot since Spectator Mode came in, both due to people watching and learning and due to genuinely great players joining in hoping they’ll get spotted by someone recruiting for their team. I really don’t see why we even need a separate solo queue when hotjoin does the same thing so perfectly already! The only thing it doesn’t do is get you on the leaderboards, and like I said, a solo queue leaderboard would be a bit of a joke anyway. Stop asking for a smaller hill: either get a team and climb the mountain of tournaments, or come down to the riverbank and join the beach party of hotjoin! :p

A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.

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Posted by: Punkins.2087

Punkins.2087

Be a big mistake, IMO.

The most profitable sector (me) is the guy who works a lot, has kids, etc.. also the guy who has very little playtime, and wouldnt bother logging in to spend his hour a day of free time staring at a queue, waiting for the perfect matchup.

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Posted by: Punkins.2087

Punkins.2087

People who cant take losing, and would rather sit on the bench than fight against the odds have no place in the world of PvP, in my opinion.

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Posted by: Edo Tensei.8254

Edo Tensei.8254

please dont listen to this tread opener. solo queue is needed + a ranking ladder for solo queue.

right now solo/randoms players have to face premades , this should never happen in any pvp game for the sake of competition (and it doesnt matter if its a mmo/shooter/rts game etc.) . Everyone who have an other oppnion about pvp and this issue is just a pve player and no real pvp player.

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Posted by: manveruppd.7601

manveruppd.7601

So anyone who disagrees with you is unqualified to have an opinion of their own?

A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.

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Posted by: Laila.1078

Laila.1078

solo and duo players in 1 queue, 5v5 in team queue. player poll should be from all servers put together. different ladder for solo and team and everyone’s happy.

if you’d get long queue time with all servers polled together, it just means the pvp in the game is dead.

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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

GW2 is built around casuals. The soloQ is one of the most important things, which attracts the majority of the tpvp player-base. Therefore it is really crucial to have this feature in the game. It needs some improvements, but overall it’s helping the community to grow.

Read It Backwards [BooN]

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Posted by: Rezz.8019

Rezz.8019

If you want to implement solo queue, you definitely have to make them unable to see current players in the roster. Else there would be syncing and dodging which goes against the whole idea of the solo queue.

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Posted by: Laila.1078

Laila.1078

If you want to implement solo queue, you definitely have to make them unable to see current players in the roster. Else there would be syncing and dodging which goes against the whole idea of the solo queue.

they should have it like in LoL where there’s a penalty for dodging. lose points and can’t enter match for x minutes. if the player base if big enough, sync won’t be an issue anyway,

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Posted by: Chesire.9043

Chesire.9043

solo and duo players in 1 queue, 5v5 in team queue. player poll should be from all servers put together. different ladder for solo and team and everyone’s happy.

if you’d get long queue time with all servers polled together, it just means the pvp in the game is dead.

Pretty much my thoughts on the subject also.

I like duo ques, but if you’re going to queue with three people you may as well get a team together. EVERYONE has at least one person in their guild that wouldn’t mind queuing duo in a pvp match, whether they know it or not. I would much rather lose with a friend on my team (someone to trash talk and rage with) than to just get totally creamed because I just queued up alone with no one to vent my e-rage with.

The ladders obviously need to be separated; this is just pure common sense.

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Posted by: Myrmidian Eudoros.4671

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671

So, the tl;dr is: 1. it’s just wrong, get a team or suck it up, 2. What about the leaderboards? 3. Where would the duos go? 4. there aren’t enough teams!

In response:

1) How can you expect to be taken seriously when you say ethos repeatedly. Even if soloque is unranked (which wouldn’t necessarily be bad) it needs to be there. The population grows by getting people playing casually (solo), and then they get interested in teams.

2) Leaderboards clearly have to be seperate. This has never been a discussion.

3) Duos will either be relegated to CA servers, forced to find a team or lumped in with the solos. Seems pretty clear that any of the above is better than the present situation.

4) The lack of teams would most likely improve with the introduction of a legitimate solo que. It seems counter-intuitive, but the competetive scene will always be team que. The reason why more teams aren’t currently formed is that a large number of players try to solo que and find the barriers to entry too high due to being qued constantly against teams. Solo v Solo matches are generally more competetive and will make for a better product ultimately drawing in more players and facilitating an organic creation of more teams.

In short, your reasons for not wanting a solo-que are all either already addressed or clear positives for the introduction of a legit solo que. Obviously this is a matter of opinion, but I think we can all agree that the PvP population is badly in need of a boost and solo que will provide at least a measure of that.

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Posted by: Chesire.9043

Chesire.9043

Obviously this is a matter of opinion, but I think we can all agree that the PvP population is badly in need of a boost and solo que will provide at least a measure of that.

Or at the very least it provide enjoyment for the casual players which seem to be in greater number than serious teams in the queue as it is, especially when the higher ranked teams have access to custom arena’s.

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Posted by: Shar.3402

Shar.3402

There will be a solo (and solo only, no duo no trio, just solo) queue and solo ladder. Duo/trio will keep playing in the current queue system

Shar Teel – Elementalist
Yolo queue FTW [YOLO] – Desolation (EU)
Champion Magus, Genius

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Posted by: Gewd.8125

Gewd.8125

1. it’s just wrong, get a team or suck it up… GET A TEAM! Everyone can get a team!

As someone who has solo queued to the top 1000 multiple times and currently has 2 accounts there, this is plain wrong. No, everyone can not get a team.

  • tPvP is so small now that it would probably take half a day for a noob to gather a team. This is time that a new player is not willing to spend.
  • The newer you are, the harder it is to find a group. This means you will get less practice per day than the players “in the scene” unless you face the solo queue meat grinder.
  • Even at r400 I have to wait hours to get a group.
  • Hotjoin is not appropriate practice.

2. What about the leaderboards?

What about them?

3. Where would the duos go?

They can go in the premade queue.

4. There aren’t enough teams!

A proper solo queue will get more people to play. If things remain as they are the tpvp scene will continue shrinking. Sports become popular by being accessible to the general population, not by putting up barriers to entry.