Guild Wars 2

I mean it wasn’t to long ago that people complained that it was power > all and that was limiting, teams ran shatter mesmers, burst thiefs, 1 bunkers and a power ele and something else (condi engi).

Now necro’s have a burn (which i agree is way overkill), weakness got buffed (for the better, but perhaps a little to much ajusting 15%-20% is worth a try) and they added a little bit of tourment. I will say that increased mark size may be a little to large

I really don’t see what changed so much. I think the proposed make heals clear conditions and then make you immune or adding more condition removal will just radically swing balance back to power > all and I dont want to see that. I think small adjustements which Anet is aware of with the necro will go a long ways ( and maybe slightly nerfing engi burn trait as well).

Also I think the AOE of condis that everyone is complaining about is the 2-3 necros on a team spamming large aoe condi’s (which will hopefully change when they do the balance change), aside from that I think conditions are fine and at times underwhelming against the consistent strong builds prior to this patch due how fast you “can” clear conditions.

shimmerless.4560:

the thing is that at the minute, conditions carry almost all the benefits of high power (solid ‘burst-y’ damage) with none of the drawbacks, and they even have some benefits to boot: when you spec into duration you get stronger cripples, great spammable CC and so on; rabid ammy carries high toughness, giving great defense; condis ignore toughness and go straight for the health pool, and so on.

i think there’s an issue with balancing the benefits of ranged attacks as well but this isn’t exclusive to condis in my opinion.

I agree with your last point, however condi’s can and do get cleansed frequently against a lot of the common strong builds at the moment and if you add more its just going to make power > all.

Power damage is off loaded all at once and thats that, condi’s against most builds have a chance of being stripped every 8-10 secs ( Ele’s clear 2 every 8 seconds, guardians 2 every 10 secs and more if you include side skills, theifs clear 1 every 3-5 secs in stealth, necro’s can clear a bunch frequently, rangers 3 every 10 seconds, engi’s can clear 2 every 15 secs and more through skills, mesmers are hurting but can have them cleared if speced, but lets be honest mesmers are just fine)……

AoE spamming conditions takes no skill whatsoever. Conditions were supposed to be used tactically, like; poison when the enemy heals, weakness when their endurance is low, vulnerability before a burst, blind to disrupt an attack, confusion before rapid fire, cripple to escape/chase etc. But the reality is; the more conditions you can apply to your enemies, the better, regardless of which ones. Simply spamming your skills as soon as they are off cooldown, is the best way to play condition-builds.

Using AoE conditions is Low Risk, High Reward. You simply cannot do it wrong. With the addition of torment, and condition-professions getting more, and stronger conditions (Engi, Necro), no profession is able to continuously cleanse all conditions. Even Guardians or Elementalists will eventually die to the massive amount of conditions especially Necro is able to put out.

This basically makes PvP require no skill at all, it makes the gap between good and bad players much smaller, and basically destroys the competitive aspect of PvP. If you ask me, all of the above is the reason that competitive players hate conditions.

@ Zenyoga

Mesmers have a total of 4 ways to cleanse conditions (runes/sigils aside). Nullfield (45s CD), Arcane Thievery (45s Cooldown, removes 3), Menders Purity (remove 1 on heal), and Mantra of Resolve (20s Cooldown, plus recharge time). As you can see, 3 of these are utility skills, so if we were to get all 3, we would sacrifice mobility, stunbreaks, clone-generation, invis, etc etc, just to be able to cleanse conditions. Realisticly, no one will ever run all 3 of those utilities, which essentially means, that Mesmers can remove 3-5 conditions every 45 second at best.
Now compare that to how many conditions Necro / Engi are able to put out.

More and stronger conditions? Then Engi is mentioned?

Engineers have not gotten any new conditions since launch. Just to clear that up.

We can apply bleed (VERY short durations except on lame nade kit), poison, burning, and confusion for damage conditions.

We did not receive torment or any new condition and have been fairly the same in regards to condi output since launch – in fact only nerfs have come our way in this regard. Lower durations, less frequent application, etc. (pistol bleed duration cut in half – its a whopping TWO seconds now, as well as the AOE bleed removed, burn on crit moved to 10s ICD, etc)

@ Velron

I guess that was worded somewhat incorrectly. Engi was merely mentioned as they are AoE Condition heavy. I’ve got an 80 Engi for WvW, so I’m fully aware of their skills and changes.

Also, 5 points into Firearms, and you’ve got yourself a free Sigil of Earth. With my Toolkit specced Engi, I can keep constant burning, bleed, poison and vulnerability on any enemy, even Guardians/Eles. Besides, Shrapnel applies bleeding for 12 seconds.

Adian.8756:

@ Velron

I guess that was worded somewhat incorrectly. Engi was merely mentioned as they are AoE Condition heavy. I’ve got an 80 Engi for WvW, so I’m fully aware of their skills and changes.

Also, 5 points into Firearms, and you’ve got yourself a free Sigil of Earth. With my Toolkit specced Engi, I can keep constant burning, bleed, poison and vulnerability on any enemy, even Guardians/Eles. Besides, Shrapnel applies bleeding for 12 seconds.

Yeah grenade kit is the only way to get really long bleeds that you can really stack up for our profession.

The AOE condi output is there for sure, I don’t think it really compared to traited Necro marks at all though. The ease of application (ie how easy is it to dodge a grenade throw vs a Necro mark placed directly under your feet) and durations. Necro marks just give way too much reward for basically no skill or risk. They are monstrous and apply very long conditions, unblockable.

Engi for AOE condi output mostly have Bombs or Grenades. Grenades are slow moving and arching – very easy to dodge unless right on top of you. Bombs are placed and have a short delay before they explode giving anyone ample time to dodge – unlike a Necro mark that explodes the moment placed beneath you.

I agree AOE condi spam is way out of control right now, my biased opinion is just thakittens much more due to Necros and their crazy marks than it is to Engineers.

I’ve been playing with full glass cannon Engi lately anyway though because I have felt that “this is too easy now” feeling while playing my condition build. I feel that’s due to the high skill ceiling of a kit heavy Engi though. Once you’ve got it down, you can really kick some kitten .

I added a suggestion in the suggestion forum a couple weeks back, not even asking for nerfs to Necro damage or any of that – but just a short maybe 1second activation time for the marks. Similar to the way an Engineer bomb must have the 1second before it explodes and applies the condition.

Necro marks basically have no skillful counter play atm. The counter play is to dodge, run around and hope they miss I suppose

I also think that Necro Staff skills and Engineer Bomb skills need separate animations.

There is basically no way at all to tell what you’re going to be dodging. All Engi bombs look the same when placed except BoB.

All Necro staff skill animations look basically the same as well, just a wave of the arm.

Well which one is the Fear mark?! I want to dodge THAT one!

Which bomb is going to give me 5 stacks of confusion? I want to dodge THAT one!

I simply want to see the spamability of conditions reduced, either with shorter duration or longer recharges. I’m not interested in Power > Conditions or Conditions > Power, i want to see Power = Conditions. Of course perfect balance is unlikely but so long as both are viable. Condition removal is starting to become decent even on warrior, it’s just that conditions themselves are so insane that they cause problems.

I main a Necro and I have to say that people love to complain about things they do not understand. I die more to direct damage or power as the OP stated a lot more than I do to conditions. Keep in mind that this is a condition heavy meta right now and I equip at least 3 condition removers myself. I would need at a minimum, 6 seconds of cast time just down an afk’er (12-30 seconds when they fight back) from 100 to 0 through conditions. Did I mention (incoming sticker shock) that I don’t use the staff? Power can drop me in half that time that it take for me to kill 1 through conditions alone.

The reason you see teams with 2 or 3 Necros is because they want to do the job 2 and 3 times as fast. It’s the same reason you see 2 or 3 Mesmers, Thiefs or any other power based team composition. With my current condition defensive build, am I vulnerable to power? Yes. But I’m a Necro and I’m used to it by now. It’s why I keep insisting on more access to the essential defensive options that we probably won’t ever get. At the same time, I do not go out to rally up supports to the nerf this other class campaign.

The last time I checked, Power (including it’s AOE form) didn’t corner the market on the focusing of a single target.

Jayce.5632:

I main a Necro and I have to say that people love to complain about things they do not understand. I die more to direct damage or power as the OP stated a lot more than I do to conditions. Keep in mind that this is a condition heavy meta right now and I equip at least 3 condition removers myself. I would need at a minimum, 6 seconds of cast time just down an afk’er (12-30 seconds when they fight back) from 100 to 0 through conditions. Did I mention (incoming sticker shock) that I don’t use the staff? Power can drop me in half that time that it take for me to kill 1 through conditions alone.

The reason you see teams with 2 or 3 Necros is because they want to do the job 2 and 3 times as fast. It’s the same reason you see 2 or 3 Mesmers, Thiefs or any other power based team composition. With my current condition defensive build, am I vulnerable to power? Yes. But I’m a Necro and I’m used to it by now. It’s why I keep insisting on more access to the essential defensive options that we probably won’t ever get. At the same time, I do not go out to rally up supports to the nerf this other class campaign.

The last time I checked, Power (including it’s AOE form) didn’t corner the market on the focusing of a single target.

If Necros were given more defense options they would become unstoppable. They lack defensive options because their offense is so potent. As a warrior I finally feel I have a role to play because having a Mace or Hammer is the best way to counter Necro. I still want to see a better balance between Power and Conditions. Currently you can have a lot of sustain AND good damage output via conditions, which is not OK.

I would be OK with more defensive options for Necros but ONLY if they have their current meta toned down. Constantly applying so many conditions isn’t good and it also doesn’t take much skill or effort to do either.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I would be OK with more defensive options for Necros but ONLY if they have their current meta toned down. Constantly applying so many conditions isn’t good and it also doesn’t take much skill or effort to do either.

I don’t touch Dhuumfire, so aside from it and Torment, how exactly is our condition application suddenly so much more powerful than pre-patch? Nothing in the standard builds has changed other than the addition to DS#5.

I personally don’t have any problems with condis and think they should be as or even more powerful than power based builds (as hexes were in gw1) what i have problems with is nec/engi having WAAAAAAY more condis than any other class. Like other classes have no conditions in comparison and i think this should change so more peeps run different builds.

Velron.3729:

I added a suggestion in the suggestion forum a couple weeks back, not even asking for nerfs to Necro damage or any of that – but just a short maybe 1second activation time for the marks. Similar to the way an Engineer bomb must have the 1second before it explodes and applies the condition.

They already do. It takes 3/4th of a second to cast marks.

Kravick.4906:

Velron.3729:

I added a suggestion in the suggestion forum a couple weeks back, not even asking for nerfs to Necro damage or any of that – but just a short maybe 1second activation time for the marks. Similar to the way an Engineer bomb must have the 1second before it explodes and applies the condition.

They already do. It takes 3/4th of a second to cast marks.

He isn’t referring to cast time, I believe he means that once the mark has been placed and it is triggered, it instantly applies the conditions/effect. What would be better is that after you step on it there was a slight delay before the Mark activates. It would give you a chance to dodge/evade.

Zenyoga.6910:

I mean it wasn’t to long ago that people complained that it was power > all and that was limiting, teams ran shatter mesmers, burst thiefs, 1 bunkers and a power ele and something else (condi engi).

Now necro’s have a burn (which i agree is way overkill), weakness got buffed (for the better, but perhaps a little to much 20% is worth a try) and they added a little bit of tourment. I will say that increased mark size may be a little to large

I really don’t see what changed so much. I think the proposed make heals clear conditions and then make you immune or adding more condition removal will just radically swing balance back to power > all and I dont want to see that. I think small adjustements which Anet is aware of with the necro will go a long ways ( and maybe slightly nerfing engi burn trait as well).

Also I think the AOE of condis that everyone is complaining about is the 2-3 necros on a team spamming large aoe condi’s (which will hopefully change when they do the balance change), aside from that I think conditions are fine and at times underwhelming against the consistent strong builds prior to this patch due how fast you “can” clear conditions.

I agree. Necros have not changed that much tbh, the biggest change (which should be removed totally) is the burning trait. That said i believe the main problem are not condi, but aoe condi spamming (and necros and engis are kings of aoe spamming). With next “big” patch they are probably going to nerf necros condi spec, making it totally useless (cos it’s too late to rework all the kittening aoe skills they have, nerf condi dmg and maybe terror is way easier). Engi are going to be nerfed too. As a result every kid and his dog will switch back to power specs, and players will find something else to qq about on the forumz.

Adian.8756:

AoE spamming conditions takes no skill whatsoever. Conditions were supposed to be used tactically, like; poison when the enemy heals, weakness when their endurance is low, vulnerability before a burst, blind to disrupt an attack, confusion before rapid fire, cripple to escape/chase etc. But the reality is; the more conditions you can apply to your enemies, the better, regardless of which ones. Simply spamming your skills as soon as they are off cooldown, is the best way to play condition-builds.

Using AoE conditions is Low Risk, High Reward. You simply cannot do it wrong. With the addition of torment, and condition-professions getting more, and stronger conditions (Engi, Necro), no profession is able to continuously cleanse all conditions. Even Guardians or Elementalists will eventually die to the massive amount of conditions especially Necro is able to put out.

This basically makes PvP require no skill at all, it makes the gap between good and bad players much smaller, and basically destroys the competitive aspect of PvP. If you ask me, all of the above is the reason that competitive players hate conditions.

@ Zenyoga

Mesmers have a total of 4 ways to cleanse conditions (runes/sigils aside). Nullfield (45s CD), Arcane Thievery (45s Cooldown, removes 3), Menders Purity (remove 1 on heal), and Mantra of Resolve (20s Cooldown, plus recharge time). As you can see, 3 of these are utility skills, so if we were to get all 3, we would sacrifice mobility, stunbreaks, clone-generation, invis, etc etc, just to be able to cleanse conditions. Realisticly, no one will ever run all 3 of those utilities, which essentially means, that Mesmers can remove 3-5 conditions every 45 second at best.
Now compare that to how many conditions Necro / Engi are able to put out.

Yes, it would be much nicer to use condis tactical, but as Necro I can say that they should remake my class. Necro is too slow casting and using it tacticaly is almost impossible. Also Bleeding is main weapon of Condi/Terrormancer.

I like all post that are saing somthing like " There is no way to cleanse thous condis".
It is the same as i would say, that i cannon heal or regen all dps some class is making.
If classes would be able to cleanse condis, there would be no point in plaing this spec.

Just learn to play and dodge through marks. I’m glad necro got buffs and I don’t even play the class.

sorrychief.2563:

Just learn to play and dodge through marks. I’m glad necro got buffs and I don’t even play the class.

Marks would be better if they gave you a chance to dodge after they are triggered, much like Counterblow or Illusionary Counter. The problem with marks is that when they’re dropped under your feet you don’t get any real chance to avoid them. That be OK if that was difficult to do but let’s be honest it isn’t anywhere near as difficult as grenades.

BurrTheKing.8571:

sorrychief.2563:

Just learn to play and dodge through marks. I’m glad necro got buffs and I don’t even play the class.

Marks would be better if they gave you a chance to dodge after they are triggered, much like Counterblow or Illusionary Counter. The problem with marks is that when they’re dropped under your feet you don’t get any real chance to avoid them. That be OK if that was difficult to do but let’s be honest it isn’t anywhere near as difficult as grenades.

You should look at what necro is doing, like you look at others.
What you just said sounds like, dodge attack that already hit you – great idea, but i would like to have it vs melee aswell xD

I think if Marks were redesigned some of these issues would disappear. Currently every Necro takes Greater Marks, which makes Necro marks much larger, and makes them unblockable. What if marks were made larger baseline, something in between the huge Greater Marks trait, and in between the very small baseline marks. Then every Necro would not need to take Greater Marks, and we would have less unblockable marks being laid down. A Necro might have to think twice about dropping that Putrid Mark on a Warrior using Shield Block, instead of just spamming every ability they have.

Also burning is just too strong for every class IMO.

Marks are a 1200 range AoE attacks. Having them show a visible delay would only put them on par with the projectile attacks in the game.

Copenhagen.7015:

Also burning is just too strong for every class IMO.

I think it’s probably just too strong for being on random unavoidable procs, it’s fine on ranger or ele when you can see which attacks are going to set you on fire.

Agreed the hate is justified..in a node fight as a melee player I have a screen shot of me having 18 bleeds, 5 seconds of chilled, 9 torment, fear, poisoned, 14 stacks of invulnerability, blind and crippled. What makes it funny is that it was a 4 vs 4 map and 3 of the opposition were necro’s. If you can’t be bothered to do the math..i had 49 conditions either stacked or unique on me. For a melee player to hold the node or capture it, they must be in and they can’t fire out..for necro’s they can be in and not target anyone specific,..just place in and around the node. When in numbers they become too dominant.

Currently if a melee profession tries to attack my guardian/ranger/warrior/mesmer they can use retaliation or blocks that will cause some form of damage back or benefit. The condition spam classes have no down side to conditions. If, let’s say my guardians smite condition scales with conditions, and does 500 dmg for each condition suffered, from the above example I would cause 24,ooo dmg to anyone within 600 units of me. However it doesn’t scale, I will cause 800 dmg and that is it. This dmg can be mitigated by evading or toughness. This is the current problem with condition spam, it has no counter or risk/reward factor. The worst a person can do when spammed is clear a few of them and that is it. The necro can reverse some conditions back, but even then they have multiple skills that benefit from them carring conditions. To make the situation worse, all condition spam professions have superior rune of undead. It heightens condition dmg and increases toughness..and last I looked, condition spam professions weren’t lacking for HP pool..so where does one go from here?….to be very honest, another game until this one truly has resolved these issues.

If you wanna know why “suddenly” everyone hates conditions so much I suggest reading the first post of this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Reasons-why-we-have-a-cond-meta/first

nothing more to add…

They can nerf conditions but they also need to nerf things like emphatic bond and some elementalist cleanses. Also now they have buffed berserker stance they need to be very careful with respect to nerfing conditions too much.

And marks aren’t great. You have to trait for them and the cooldowns are very very long. The problem with necro and engi is purely the burning trait. It needs to be there but maybe reduce its duration by a second or two.

BurrTheKing.8571:

sorrychief.2563:

Just learn to play and dodge through marks. I’m glad necro got buffs and I don’t even play the class.

Marks would be better if they gave you a chance to dodge after they are triggered, much like Counterblow or Illusionary Counter. The problem with marks is that when they’re dropped under your feet you don’t get any real chance to avoid them. That be OK if that was difficult to do but let’s be honest it isn’t anywhere near as difficult as grenades.

Really if you dont dodge alot whilst the necro is in staff then you deserve to die. It is like not dodging illusionary leap. You will die and it is because you played bad

Lordrosicky.5813:

Really if you dont dodge alot whilst the necro is in staff then you deserve to die. It is like not dodging illusionary leap. You will die and it is because you played bad[/quote]

Dodging erratically should never be the most skillful way to play against anything, that’s why necro marks should be changed a bit.

GeoPro.7530:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Really if you dont dodge alot whilst the necro is in staff then you deserve to die. It is like not dodging illusionary leap. You will die and it is because you played bad

Dodging erratically should never be the most skillful way to play against anything, that’s why necro marks should be changed a bit.[/quote]

It isnt dodging erratically. It is dodging because you see the mark casting animation when the necro is in staff. If you cant do this then learn some more about it. I used to find mesmers really hard to beat until I learnt the animations.

Lordrosicky.5813:

BurrTheKing.8571:

sorrychief.2563:

Just learn to play and dodge through marks. I’m glad necro got buffs and I don’t even play the class.

Marks would be better if they gave you a chance to dodge after they are triggered, much like Counterblow or Illusionary Counter. The problem with marks is that when they’re dropped under your feet you don’t get any real chance to avoid them. That be OK if that was difficult to do but let’s be honest it isn’t anywhere near as difficult as grenades.

Really if you dont dodge alot whilst the necro is in staff then you deserve to die. It is like not dodging illusionary leap. You will die and it is because you played bad

A smart Necro will wait for the dodge and place it where you land, and even with dodges you can’t avoid them all. Pretty annoying how warrior has so many easily telegraphed attacks, yet telling certain magic attacks apart from each other is nearly impossible because the differences are either subtle or non-existent. With marks it be nice to have the symbol on the icon appear over their head so you can choose which ones are the most important to dodge.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Lordrosicky.5813:

BurrTheKing.8571:

sorrychief.2563:

Just learn to play and dodge through marks. I’m glad necro got buffs and I don’t even play the class.

Marks would be better if they gave you a chance to dodge after they are triggered, much like Counterblow or Illusionary Counter. The problem with marks is that when they’re dropped under your feet you don’t get any real chance to avoid them. That be OK if that was difficult to do but let’s be honest it isn’t anywhere near as difficult as grenades.

Really if you dont dodge alot whilst the necro is in staff then you deserve to die. It is like not dodging illusionary leap. You will die and it is because you played bad

A smart Necro will wait for the dodge and place it where you land, and even with dodges you can’t avoid them all. Pretty annoying how warrior has so many easily telegraphed attacks, yet telling certain magic attacks apart from each other is nearly impossible because the differences are either subtle or non-existent. With marks it be nice to have the symbol on the icon appear over their head so you can choose which ones are the most important to dodge.

Unlikely a necro can afford to wait for dodges before trying to land his initially staff marks. He will often just die if he tries to do this.

As I said there are only 4 marks. And the animation is clear. You should dodge the initial marks if you are a power class as mark 4 holds no fear for you. If you are a condi class then it is obvious when he will try to use mark 4 and then dodging again is appropiate.

Lordrosicky.5813:

GeoPro.7530:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Really if you dont dodge alot whilst the necro is in staff then you deserve to die. It is like not dodging illusionary leap. You will die and it is because you played bad

Dodging erratically should never be the most skillful way to play against anything, that’s why necro marks should be changed a bit.

It isnt dodging erratically. It is dodging because you see the mark casting animation when the necro is in staff. If you cant do this then learn some more about it. I used to find mesmers really hard to beat until I learnt the animations.[/quote]

All the mark casting animations are exactly the same, so there’s going to be guess work as to which I dodge. Unless there’s a specific order that most necros will cast in, but even if there is I still think that there should be differences in the animations themselves.

GeoPro.7530:

Lordrosicky.5813:

GeoPro.7530:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Really if you dont dodge alot whilst the necro is in staff then you deserve to die. It is like not dodging illusionary leap. You will die and it is because you played bad

Dodging erratically should never be the most skillful way to play against anything, that’s why necro marks should be changed a bit.

It isnt dodging erratically. It is dodging because you see the mark casting animation when the necro is in staff. If you cant do this then learn some more about it. I used to find mesmers really hard to beat until I learnt the animations.

All the mark casting animations are exactly the same, so there’s going to be guess work as to which I dodge. Unless there’s a specific order that most necros will cast in, but even if there is I still think that there should be differences in the animations themselves.[/quote]

There are only 4 marks and they have long overall cooldowns. So you should just dodge as many marks as possible.

In addition, there should be animation differences. But that is a problem across all classes with the exception of very few weapon sets (warrior greatsword and shield being some of them). The rest are just no animations. So dont single out the necro staff. It is probably easier to spot that alot of other weapons on other classes.

when conditions are able to kill you as fast as direct dmg while being unable to control your character most of the time (fears from necro or ccs from engi), something is wrong and the designer didnt get the point of damage over time… thats where all the conditions hate comes from…

As a condition necro, the biggest problem I have is with enemies running right through my marks and pounding the heck out of me. When a power thief lands right on my back, marks are of little consolation.

The reason why is obvious: marks only do high damage over a length of time. Sure, my mark of blood hits for 5,085 condition damage in sPVP. But, it takes 15 seconds for it to get there, and it has a 4.8 second recharge on use. On immediate use it only hits for, like, 300 damage. That is no consolation when a guardian has leaped onto my back and is smacking me for 2k-3k a pop with their greatsword. The other marks pale in comparison as far as damage goes, with a terror based reaper’s mark coming the closest in damage terms.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the staff necromancer’s greatest weakness. You don’t need to “avoid” marks. Just power right through them, since at most you’ll be hit by 2 marks of blood before they have to switch weapons due to all marks being on cooldown.

MaXi.3642:

when conditions are able to kill you as fast as direct dmg while being unable to control your character most of the time (fears from necro or ccs from engi), something is wrong and the designer didnt get the point of damage over time… thats where all the conditions hate comes from…

heard of stunbreakers nad stbility ?

Ceraldor.3160:

If you wanna know why “suddenly” everyone hates conditions so much I suggest reading the first post of this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Reasons-why-we-have-a-cond-meta/first

nothing more to add…

Ya I read it and its a good read, however these things have been in the game for a while, the only big change is necro burn and weakness that I agree is a good thing to adjust (maybe 10-20% like I mentioned). I think this potential has already been there, and no one tried it untill necro got a change. I think if they changed things back this potential to have a strong condi meta would still exist, and I think its a good thing with perhaps a slight adjust, but we don’t want powe>all again.