Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand this at all.

Also why is blinding dissipation still allowed to blind through dodges?

I’m all for the class being viable, but this class is just simply too strong, they’re not fun to play against at all.

Everytime there’s more than 3 mesmers in a game, i just leave instantly, because it just will not be a fun match, they are genuinely sapping the fun out of the game for anyone who is not playing one.

(mesmer main)

I agree completely mesmers are way too powerful at the moment. Free massive damage shatters with very little/no counter-play are absolutely not conducive to engaging gameplay.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

I don’t understand this at all.

Also why is blinding dissipation still allowed to blind through dodges?

I’m all for the class being viable, but this class is just simply too strong, they’re not fun to play against at all.

Everytime there’s more than 3 mesmers in a game, i just leave instantly, because it just will not be a fun match, they are genuinely sapping the fun out of the game for anyone who is not playing one.

Prepared to be flamed by countless Mesmers who will defend their class even in the face of both objective and subjective reality….incoming!!!!!

It’s the blinds, invulnerability, burning that’s killing me

Every single turn in a fight I manage to get blind.. missing my burst

I don’t know why they are going unchecked, surely Anet is aware. Something needs to be done soon because they are single handedly ruining pvp.

I think mesmer a bit too strong. I run mantra shatter so I’m more stunlock/support than outright burst, but the PU burst builds seem a bit enraging to most players if they can’t remain calm..

although I’ve beaten PU burst while running mantra, so maybe I’m just awesome, idk.

nearlight.3064:

I think mesmer a bit too strong. I run mantra shatter so I’m more stunlock/support than outright burst, but the PU burst builds seem a bit enraging to most players if they can’t remain calm..

although I’ve beaten PU burst while running mantra, so maybe I’m just awesome, idk.

And everyone is going to come in and say “so the only way to counter mesmer is another mesmer, got it that’s fair.” blah blah blah

Imo, they’re just trying to fix the most game breaking bugs atm. You know when they fixed the guardian symbol trait and Grenadier, which was quite important. It was good that they disabled the traits before fixing them, however they can’t delete mesmers from the game temporarily and there’s no other quick solution.

Lets face it, ANet works slow and we’ll have to wait for the actual balance to take place.

Laraley.7695:

Imo, they’re just trying to fix the most game breaking bugs atm. You know when they fixed the guardian symbol trait and Grenadier, which was quite important. It was good that they disabled the traits before fixing them, however they can’t delete mesmers from the game temporarily and there’s no other quick solution.

Lets face it, ANet works slow and we’ll have to wait for the actual balance to take place.

That’s fair enough, but then why didn’t they do the same for Blinding dissipation?

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Laraley.7695:

Imo, they’re just trying to fix the most game breaking bugs atm. You know when they fixed the guardian symbol trait and Grenadier, which was quite important. It was good that they disabled the traits before fixing them, however they can’t delete mesmers from the game temporarily and there’s no other quick solution.

Lets face it, ANet works slow and we’ll have to wait for the actual balance to take place.

That’s fair enough, but then why didn’t they do the same for Blinding dissipation?

Probably because it affects more trait than this.

Gambino.2109:

It’s the blinds, invulnerability, burning that’s killing me

Every single turn in a fight I manage to get blind.. missing my burst

But mesmer only has 1 skill that applies burning consistently… and its only 1 stack.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Laraley.7695:

Imo, they’re just trying to fix the most game breaking bugs atm. You know when they fixed the guardian symbol trait and Grenadier, which was quite important. It was good that they disabled the traits before fixing them, however they can’t delete mesmers from the game temporarily and there’s no other quick solution.

Lets face it, ANet works slow and we’ll have to wait for the actual balance to take place.

That’s fair enough, but then why didn’t they do the same for Blinding dissipation?

Those other trait bugs were turned into straight-up exploits, including not just one-hit kills and massive PvE/WvW super-damage zerging opportunities.

Bugged Blinding Dissipation is pretty OP, but it’s something that shuts down counterplay, not an obvious big-boom “WTF just happened?” kind of bug in its own right. That’s why it hasn’t gotten the same extraordinary treatment, despite its pretty significant power in PvP.

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills :D

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills

A lot of people I run into seem to have builds designed to counter the one trick pony burn builds so they slot a bit more condition removal than usual. Since condi memser isn’t so great in SPvP without glorious burning, its mostly all zerkers or marauders and then people get upset that their build specced to counter condis doesn’t also counter zerker anymore. Damage needs to be adjusted all across the classes IMO, but expecting your build to be able to deal with both power and condi while still being able to do respectable damage yourself is a delusions many people seem to labour under.

Blinds on shatters and daze = stun traits are a bit over the top when combined with the Inspiration tree. Although, pop Rampage and we can do absolutly nothing. At all. (When playing the mantra build)

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills

It’s funny that usually the bad players who needed mesmers to be this overbuffed now tell everyone to l2p.

People who are actually good at their class realize where the issues are and what needs to be toned down.

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

I honestly don’t know if it goes through block, haven’t tried that, but there is no justification for anything to be applied during your evade frame. I’m sorry, but it’s ridiculous to defend such trait.

Laraley.7695:

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills

It’s funny that usually the bad players who needed mesmers to be this overbuffed now tell everyone to l2p.

People who are actually good at their class realize where the issues are and what needs to be toned down.

Did it maybe occur to you that mesmer could have been underpowered before and the well known pro mesmers had to overcompensate to be viable against pro players from other classes? Naturally if mesmers got buffed in any way, the people that were already very skilled at playing mesmer would feel like they didn’t need to try as hard.

Also, people are quick to cite the pros until their views conflict with yours, then they’re just noob mesmers again. Its been 2 weeks since the patch hit, at least let the big fixes come and the meta settle before trying to neuter things, regardless of class.

As for Blinding Dissipation going through things. I’m unsure if its intended or not. You people are all acting as if this is the first thing to go through evades. Unsteady ground, ring/line of warding, static field and guardian’s GS pull all ignore evades. I haven’t played around with it as much though so I still don’t have a strong opinion either way on this trait.

Necrotize.2974:

Laraley.7695:

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills

It’s funny that usually the bad players who needed mesmers to be this overbuffed now tell everyone to l2p.

People who are actually good at their class realize where the issues are and what needs to be toned down.

Did it maybe occur to you that mesmer could have been underpowered before and the well known pro mesmers had to overcompensate to be viable against pro players from other classes? Naturally if mesmers got buffed in any way, the people that were already very skilled at playing mesmer would feel like they didn’t need to try as hard.

Also, people are quick to cite the pros until their views conflict with yours, then they’re just noob mesmers again. Its been 2 weeks since the patch hit, at least let the big fixes come and the meta settle before trying to neuter things, regardless of class.

No. Mesmers have never been underpowered. It required skill pre patch. 3k games with mesmer here. Seriously all those so called mesmers defending the state of the class now are getting carried by traits.

Necrotize.2974:

Laraley.7695:

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills

It’s funny that usually the bad players who needed mesmers to be this overbuffed now tell everyone to l2p.

People who are actually good at their class realize where the issues are and what needs to be toned down.

Did it maybe occur to you that mesmer could have been underpowered before and the well known pro mesmers had to overcompensate to be viable against pro players from other classes? Naturally if mesmers got buffed in any way, the people that were already very skilled at playing mesmer would feel like they didn’t need to try as hard.

Also, people are quick to cite the pros until their views conflict with yours, then they’re just noob mesmers again. Its been 2 weeks since the patch hit, at least let the big fixes come and the meta settle before trying to neuter things, regardless of class.

I believe that those people’s opinions mean more to me than some random dudes telling everyone to l2p. At least have some decency and admit that there are things about mesmers that need to be toned down, because if you really don’t see that I do not think you can tell anyone to l2p.

Laraley.7695:

Necrotize.2974:

Laraley.7695:

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills

It’s funny that usually the bad players who needed mesmers to be this overbuffed now tell everyone to l2p.

People who are actually good at their class realize where the issues are and what needs to be toned down.

Did it maybe occur to you that mesmer could have been underpowered before and the well known pro mesmers had to overcompensate to be viable against pro players from other classes? Naturally if mesmers got buffed in any way, the people that were already very skilled at playing mesmer would feel like they didn’t need to try as hard.

Also, people are quick to cite the pros until their views conflict with yours, then they’re just noob mesmers again. Its been 2 weeks since the patch hit, at least let the big fixes come and the meta settle before trying to neuter things, regardless of class.

I believe that those people’s opinions mean more to me than some random dudes telling everyone to l2p. At least have some decency and admit that there are things about mesmers that need to be toned down, because if you really don’t see that I do not think you can tell anyone to l2p.

I personally think that damage in general needs to be toned down, not just for mesmers. Stats were IMO balanced badly to compensate for the loss of stats via trait lines. Between burns and various power skills across all classes, amulets could do with a little reduction in effectiveness. But its also been 2 weeks, I’d say give it at least a month to settle before drastically altering traits/skills damage or functionality. Only reason I say this is because when I do play burst mesmer, I’m shocked by how many people call it OP, then I look at their build and they’re running almost pure glass themselves or slotted mostly condi mitigation. The meta hasn’t settled yet and its hard to determine what needs to be changed when a good deal of skills/traits are broken still.

Necrotize.2974:

Laraley.7695:

Necrotize.2974:

Laraley.7695:

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s funny because I’ve been watching players in game start adapting and bringing builds/strategy to either take Mesmers down, or shut them out.

Guess you guys need to L2P

That, or keep honing your forum warriors kills

It’s funny that usually the bad players who needed mesmers to be this overbuffed now tell everyone to l2p.

People who are actually good at their class realize where the issues are and what needs to be toned down.

Did it maybe occur to you that mesmer could have been underpowered before and the well known pro mesmers had to overcompensate to be viable against pro players from other classes? Naturally if mesmers got buffed in any way, the people that were already very skilled at playing mesmer would feel like they didn’t need to try as hard.

Also, people are quick to cite the pros until their views conflict with yours, then they’re just noob mesmers again. Its been 2 weeks since the patch hit, at least let the big fixes come and the meta settle before trying to neuter things, regardless of class.

I believe that those people’s opinions mean more to me than some random dudes telling everyone to l2p. At least have some decency and admit that there are things about mesmers that need to be toned down, because if you really don’t see that I do not think you can tell anyone to l2p.

I personally think that damage in general needs to be toned down, not just for mesmers. Stats were IMO balanced badly to compensate for the loss of stats via trait lines. Between burns and various power skills across all classes, amulets could do with a little reduction in effectiveness. But its also been 2 weeks, I’d say give it at least a month to settle before drastically altering traits/skills damage or functionality. Only reason I say this is because when I do play burst mesmer, I’m shocked by how many people call it OP, then I look at their build and they’re running almost pure glass themselves or slotted mostly condi mitigation. The meta hasn’t settled yet and its hard to determine what needs to be changed when a good deal of skills/traits are broken still.

It’s not really that hard honestly. Things like Blinding Dissipation and Confounding suggestions are just over the top, you don’t need the meta to settle down to know that.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

Exactly, I posted this on the mesmer forums but guess what?

you can activate BD with every shatter, Just take in for example 1 shatter on a 12 second cd. Aoe Blind on a 12 second cd (with damage) and we still have 3 more shatters, 4 with chronomancy

Pair this with chaos armor and ineptitude.

Those denying this fact are delusional.

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

Anet made it pretty clear that GM traits are supposed to be build defining. Blind on shatter is already limited by the fact that its tied to mesmer’s burst and its probably the reason why Cry of Frustration has such a long cd for what it does compared to Mind Wrack. If it did have an ICD, it should be shorter than 10 seconds. This enables it to be up for each Mind Wrack should the mesmer need it, but prevents it from being triggered after a burst or repeatedly with MR+CoF+Diversion in a short period of time. Or give the mesmer more control over it and increase the ICD slightly. A blind that triggers whether you want it or not when you burst is not so great compared to one that can be used independently whenever you want, albeit on an ICD. This embodies the high skill ceiling and battle manipulation that mesmers were built for.

Cross class comparisons are also not a strong argument for changes. Could apply literally the exact same argument to say that Cloaked in Shadows should be Master tier since it has an added effect and all other classes have their fall damage trait at Adept. Or that it should be there because it is a combination of a master tier trait and an adept trait. Its flawed logic.

Necrotize.2974:

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

Anet made it pretty clear that GM traits are supposed to be build defining. Blind on shatter is already limited by the fact that its tied to mesmer’s burst and its probably the reason why Cry of Frustration has such a long cd for what it does compared to Mind Wrack. If it did have an ICD, it should be shorter than 10 seconds. This enables it to be up for each Mind Wrack should the mesmer need it, but prevents it from being triggered after a burst or repeatedly with MR+CoF+Diversion in a short period of time. Or give the mesmer more control over it and increase the ICD slightly. A blind that triggers whether you want it or not when you burst is not so great compared to one that can be used independently whenever you want, albeit on an ICD.

Cross class comparisons are also not a strong argument for changes. Could apply literally the exact same argument to say that Cloaked in Shadows should be Master tier since it has an added effect and all other classes have their fall damage trait at Adept. Or that it should be there because it is a combination of a master tier trait and an adept trait. Its flawed logic.

You are forgetting the fact that, we have distortions, we stealth and add those blinds with all the burst we can do.

Hell we can even trait with more reflects. BD is easily useable every 12 seconds, just on mind wrack.

Gimping damage? Mindwrack blind can easily do 2k with mental anguish. And this is only with IP.

With the addition of IP, you can access BD very very easily. No tells either.

Oh I forgot one more thing. We can also trait BD with Mental Defense. Burst + Defense right here. Not encounting distortion and stealth.

No chaos armor either. No Ineptitude.

StickerHappy.8052:

Necrotize.2974:

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

Anet made it pretty clear that GM traits are supposed to be build defining. Blind on shatter is already limited by the fact that its tied to mesmer’s burst and its probably the reason why Cry of Frustration has such a long cd for what it does compared to Mind Wrack. If it did have an ICD, it should be shorter than 10 seconds. This enables it to be up for each Mind Wrack should the mesmer need it, but prevents it from being triggered after a burst or repeatedly with MR+CoF+Diversion in a short period of time. Or give the mesmer more control over it and increase the ICD slightly. A blind that triggers whether you want it or not when you burst is not so great compared to one that can be used independently whenever you want, albeit on an ICD.

Cross class comparisons are also not a strong argument for changes. Could apply literally the exact same argument to say that Cloaked in Shadows should be Master tier since it has an added effect and all other classes have their fall damage trait at Adept. Or that it should be there because it is a combination of a master tier trait and an adept trait. Its flawed logic.

You are forgetting the fact that, we have distortions, we stealth and add those blinds with all the burst we can do.

Hell we can even trait with more reflects. BD is easily useable every 12 seconds, just on mind wrack.

Gimping damage? Mindwrack blind can easily do 2k with mental anguish. And this is only with IP.

With the addition of IP, you can access BD very very easily. No tells either.

Oh I forgot one more thing. We can also trait BD with Mental Defense. Burst + Defense right here. Not encounting distortion and stealth.

No chaos armor either. No Ineptitude.

You’re basically cherry picking the best situations. I haven’t seen many mesmer take Mental Anguish, especially not over power block. Mostly because you’ll rarely hit a target using no skills unless you’re running interrupts, in which case Power Block is better so there’s no real reason.

A build that contains all of the things you’re listing would need Domination+Inspiration+Dueling, so its not a condi build and thus unlikely to be running Ineptitude and probably not having reliable access to Chaos armor, especially not if they’re traiting for reflects because that means they have focus and their other weapon will need to be GS for burst. This also means no torch, so their stealth is either Mass Invis or Decoy. Due to the trait options that also means no PU so stealth isn’t over the top either.

So you’ve got a Sword/Focus+GS mesmer(but probably not an interrupt build) running Decoy+Blink and leaving one slot for condi mitigation because if you traited focus you’re not getting it from Inspiration(you have the bugged Power Cleanse minor but that’s really not enough against any heavy condi class, especially if you aren’t running PU).

Is the build workable? Sure. Mesmer has great build diversity now. But its not over the top. Building to have all those things you listed just means you pass up arguable better things purely to abuse Blinding Dissipation.

Just in case its unclear, I play mostly SPvP. I WvW’d for a while, but I got tired of my assassin build and didn’t feel like regearing so I just stopped.

Necrotize.2974:

StickerHappy.8052:

Necrotize.2974:

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

You are forgetting the fact that, we have distortions, we stealth and add those blinds with all the burst we can do.

Hell we can even trait with more reflects. BD is easily useable every 12 seconds, just on mind wrack.

Gimping damage? Mindwrack blind can easily do 2k with mental anguish. And this is only with IP.

With the addition of IP, you can access BD very very easily. No tells either.

Oh I forgot one more thing. We can also trait BD with Mental Defense. Burst + Defense right here. Not encounting distortion and stealth.

No chaos armor either. No Ineptitude.

You’re basically cherry picking the best situations. I haven’t seen many mesmer take Mental Anguish, especially not over power block. Mostly because you’ll rarely hit a target using no skills unless you’re running interrupts, in which case Power Block is better so there’s no real reason.

A build that contains all of the things you’re listing would need Domination+Inspiration+Dueling, so its not a condi build and thus unlikely to be running Ineptitude and probably not having reliable access to Chaos armor, especially not if they’re traiting for reflects because that means they have focus and their other weapon will need to be GS for burst. This also means no torch, so their stealth is either Mass Invis or Decoy. Due to the trait options that also means no PU so stealth isn’t over the top either.

So you’ve got a Sword/Focus+GS mesmer(but probably not an interrupt build) running Decoy+Blink and leaving one slot for condi mitigation because if you traited focus you’re not getting it from Inspiration(you have the bugged Power Cleanse minor but that’s really not enough against any heavy condi class, especially if you aren’t running PU).

Is the build workable? Sure. Mesmer has great build diversity now. But its not over the top. Building to have all those things you listed just means you pass up arguable better things purely to abuse Blinding Dissipation.

Just in case its unclear, I play mostly SPvP. I WvW’d for a while, but I got tired of my assassin build and didn’t feel like regearing so I just stopped.

Ineptitude does not necessarily mean condition. This trait can work well with power just because of the blinds. You want the blinds not that 1 stack of confusion.

Also you can go Staff with a power build. Chaos’ uses staff in a zerk build. So that argument of yours in not gonna work.

Bottom line is, we got the most out of everything. Too much blinds, Too much stealth, Too much Damage, Too much reflects, Too much interrupts/CC.

Take a look at this:

Baseline traits are already enough to make us stronger.
IP,IE,Manipulation Range, Glamour CD, 15%Phantasm Damage, Protective Mantras, Mantras are now auto charging (I forgot how to name this one)

We had a very powerful GM made baseline, another equally good master trait IE, baseline. Additional 15% baseline phantasm damage.

Blink is now 1200 range by default, trait it with an adept major trait, and you get a 24 second 1200 range tele stun breaker, with reflect on it.

Check out Mirror. 12 second Cooldown with a 4 second reflect that heals for 8k in less than 25 seconds.

Do not tell me these are not powerful enough.

PS: The main uniqueness of shatter before was IP and DE. Now any build can have IP.

Mantra of distraction/Power lock is probably too strong when traited at the moment. That’s really the only thing on mesmers at the moment that’s rather difficult to play around, since the stun/daze can come at any time. Barring stability or blocks, you’re going to just have to eat it and play it from there. If you get interrupted then there is the immobilize as well you have to deal with.

I find being aggressive helps, as it lets you take control of the tempo of the fight and force the mesmer to blow cool downs, but you still have to play it sharp to pull it off.

Mantras in general are one of the games worse mechanics, they should have been scrapped, but its clearly some developers baby and they just won’t let it die. The ability to activate a skill at any time is a very powerful effect in general, the ability to activate on demand CC at any time is probably a bit too good. When its just a daze a player can still re-position or evade, if its a stun, then they’ll need at least a stun-breaker to get out of it, and still have to possibly deal with a 2nd daze/stun.

I would say rather than nerfing mesmers they should look at making Power Lock more like Headshot (short duration cc; encouraging skilled interrupts more than a dumb-fired cast trying to get a stun).

Necrotize.2974:

sinject.4607:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Counters to blinding dissapiations and general mesmer bursts

Warrior: Resistance, endure pain, berserker stance. shield skill 5(traits that reflect projectiles)

Guardians: classical medi heals, tons of blocks either through aegis or focus skill number 5.

just a few examples. Mesmers aren’t unchecked. Maby u ought to actually counter thier abilities instead. Maby more lockdowns? More CC? Maby disengage from time to time? Maby ask your members to take the mesmer down?

blinding dissipation is completely broken, to remedy it either of these things need to happen:

• give it a sizable ICD to prevent it from simply being spammable

or (and probably the better solution)

• move it to grandmaster. since thief’s cloaked in shadows clearly warrants that placement, there is absolutely zero reason for two traits that are doing the exact same thing being differently tiered.

Anet made it pretty clear that GM traits are supposed to be build defining. Blind on shatter is already limited by the fact that its tied to mesmer’s burst and its probably the reason why Cry of Frustration has such a long cd for what it does compared to Mind Wrack. If it did have an ICD, it should be shorter than 10 seconds. This enables it to be up for each Mind Wrack should the mesmer need it, but prevents it from being triggered after a burst or repeatedly with MR+CoF+Diversion in a short period of time. Or give the mesmer more control over it and increase the ICD slightly. A blind that triggers whether you want it or not when you burst is not so great compared to one that can be used independently whenever you want, albeit on an ICD. This embodies the high skill ceiling and battle manipulation that mesmers were built for.

Cross class comparisons are also not a strong argument for changes. Could apply literally the exact same argument to say that Cloaked in Shadows should be Master tier since it has an added effect and all other classes have their fall damage trait at Adept. Or that it should be there because it is a combination of a master tier trait and an adept trait. Its flawed logic.

you lost all validity when you suggested that an on-fall trait is actually worth anything to anyone in pvp. that is an incredibly desperate hail mary attempt at justifying things as they are.

blinding dissipation needs either an 8-10 second ICD or get moved to GM tier. there is no arguing it.

not to mention mindwrack needs lower damage, confounding suggestions/mantra of distraction needs a nerf, PU needs a severe nerf, and GS auto needs to be changed so that it doesnt have ridiculous air/fire proc potential + can be exploited for higher dps. (imo it should be one hit at the end of a substantially reduced cast time for slightly less damage)

Remove baseline bouncing projectiles as a start. It pretty much forces any power build in PvP to run greatsword, and pretty much kills any other options in serious play. Because let’s be real here; mirror blade does half of our current burst potential as of the current moment.

The other big plague of the current mesmer shatter meta is confounding suggestions. Low skill required, and possibly high reward if you know how to shatter someone from 1200 range at all.

The change I’d recommend to this is to make it stun on interrupt. This gives more of a reward for timing the skill, and at the same time prevents people from instantly bursting someone from 1200 range while preventing the enemy to dodge roll (unless they time the mantra/daze to interrupt a skill).

Seems to me like Anet doesn’t have the resources to develop and expansion and balance the game at the same time.

If theywant to consider GW2 PvP as an eSport they have to be much more attentive to class unbalance and be much more careful about big changes.

The new trait system was way more important to test over and over than a new WvW map where people just run around looking at stuff.

Mesmer aren’t that strong at high level tpvp but the blind through everything should be fixed just like they did for the ranger taunt.
A simple fix to the annoyance level of the class would be to make any phantasm apply reveal to the mesmer if they hit anything meaning the mesmer would have to shatter before stealthing

RevanCorana.8942:

Mesmer aren’t that strong at high level tpvp but the blind through everything should be fixed just like they did for the ranger taunt.
A simple fix to the annoyance level of the class would be to make any phantasm apply reveal to the mesmer if they hit anything meaning the mesmer would have to shatter before stealthing

mesmers carry in “high level tpvp”. meaning that a benchwarmer like backpack can learn it a week and carry the Abjured. only at Arenanet. ESPORTS!

Things that immediately come to mind for me, granted I’m not a mesmer main but have experience:

-Blinding Dissipation should be able to be dodged

-Mental Anguish should have its damage decreased to 10% (from 15%) generally, and to 20% (from 30%) against inactive targets. That’s a conservative “shaving” change I think. This trait is simply overwhelmingly strong as is, especially when coupled with Mantra of Distraction.

-The Dazzling minor trait in needs to be toned down or changed. The Vulnerability that can be stacked with that trait, Illusion of Vulnerability minor trait, and Mirror Blade is ridiculous, in much the same way that D/F fire traited Ele’s Might stacking is. Also, why is Dazzling 5 vuln stacks for 8 seconds vs Illusion of Vulneribility 3 stacks for seconds, when the latter requires interrupting the target? As it stands, I get rewarded more for simply hitting F3 or Mantra of Distraction rather than timing an interrupt.

-Confounding Suggestions should activate the stun upon interrupt much like Power Block applies damage upon interrupt. Also, why would the trait have the description of “Chance to inflict stun” when that chance is 100%? Semantics, I know, but seems silly or an oversight.

-Mantras should begin their cool down when the last Mantra charge is used. Or, roll the current Mantra cool down into the Harmonious Mantras trait.

-Mantra of Distraction should have its charge cool down increased to 10 seconds, at 5 seconds its currently too strong coupled with Confounding Suggestions and Power Block, especially considering that it’s 1200 range, instant, and AoE.

The Domination specialization is simply too strong at the moment.

Nerf their blinding and they will just reroll theif i know i will.

Devs love mesmers.

JohnnyZero.5619:

Things that immediately come to mind for me, granted I’m not a mesmer main but have experience:

-Blinding Dissipation should be able to be dodged

-Mental Anguish should have its damage decreased to 10% (from 15%) generally, and to 20% (from 30%) against inactive targets. That’s a conservative “shaving” change I think. This trait is simply overwhelmingly strong as is, especially when coupled with Mantra of Distraction.

-The Dazzling minor trait in needs to be toned down or changed. The Vulnerability that can be stacked with that trait, Illusion of Vulnerability minor trait, and Mirror Blade is ridiculous, in much the same way that D/F fire traited Ele’s Might stacking is. Also, why is Dazzling 5 vuln stacks for 8 seconds vs Illusion of Vulneribility 3 stacks for seconds, when the latter requires interrupting the target? As it stands, I get rewarded more for simply hitting F3 or Mantra of Distraction rather than timing an interrupt.

-Confounding Suggestions should activate the stun upon interrupt much like Power Block applies damage upon interrupt. Also, why would the trait have the description of “Chance to inflict stun” when that chance is 100%? Semantics, I know, but seems silly or an oversight.

-Mantras should begin their cool down when the last Mantra charge is used. Or, roll the current Mantra cool down into the Harmonious Mantras trait.

-Mantra of Distraction should have its charge cool down increased to 10 seconds, at 5 seconds its currently too strong coupled with Confounding Suggestions and Power Block, especially considering that it’s 1200 range, instant, and AoE.

The Domination specialization is simply too strong at the moment.

If you nerf the base shatter damage, you are nerfing shatter mesmer as a whole. This forces mesmer to use greatsword even more than it’s current state, and kills what little build diversity there is left. The only broken shatter damage comes out of greatsword’s mirrorblade. No one is complaining about ileap shatters or scepter/staff shatters, so why should they suffer? Nerf the greatsword since it is what makes shatter mesmers over the top.

Also, I really don’t think mantra’s need to be changed. Mantras used to start their cooldown after the last charge was used, and it pretty much killed the style of play outside of distraction mantra. Again, if you nerf the cooldown, it nerfs the entire playstyle and makes it obsolete. There are better ways to go about it.

Make confounding suggestions only stun on interrupt, and possibly increase it to a 10 second icd.

Vulnerability is fine overall, because it’s what we have to offer to the team when going full on damage. We’re one of the very few classes who can keep 15+ vuln stacks up reliably which makes us amazing for countering bruiser/bunker builds.

~Mesmer who is bored of how easy greatsword shatter currently is.

mistsim.2748:

RevanCorana.8942:

Mesmer aren’t that strong at high level tpvp but the blind through everything should be fixed just like they did for the ranger taunt.
A simple fix to the annoyance level of the class would be to make any phantasm apply reveal to the mesmer if they hit anything meaning the mesmer would have to shatter before stealthing

mesmers carry in “high level tpvp”. meaning that a benchwarmer like backpack can learn it a week and carry the Abjured. only at Arenanet. ESPORTS!

Along with elementalist they do have some of the most OP traits and it’s a low risk high reward class but it seems to me that a well played thief will often win the burst spot in a team over mesmer because of the venom sharing and better decap potential.

OreoWolf.9564:

If you nerf the base shatter damage, you are nerfing shatter mesmer as a whole. This forces mesmer to use greatsword even more than it’s current state, and kills what little build diversity there is left. The only broken shatter damage comes out of greatsword’s mirrorblade. No one is complaining about ileap shatters or scepter/staff shatters, so why should they suffer? Nerf the greatsword since it is what makes shatter mesmers over the top.

Also, I really don’t think mantra’s need to be changed. Mantras used to start their cooldown after the last charge was used, and it pretty much killed the style of play outside of distraction mantra. Again, if you nerf the cooldown, it nerfs the entire playstyle and makes it obsolete. There are better ways to go about it.

Make confounding suggestions only stun on interrupt, and possibly increase it to a 10 second icd.

Vulnerability is fine overall, because it’s what we have to offer to the team when going full on damage. We’re one of the very few classes who can keep 15+ vuln stacks up reliably which makes us amazing for countering bruiser/bunker builds.

~Mesmer who is bored of how easy greatsword shatter currently is.

Yes, nerfing shatter Mesmers as a whole is kind of the idea though, as they are one of the biggest outliers of balance.

About Mantras, I added the addendum to keep the current cool down as is IF they spec for Mantras. I think that’s pretty fair, given how they work and with the new traits that affect them (Power Cleanse, Restorative Mantras). Though on second thought, it’s not so much a problem with Mantras in general, and more of a problem with Mantra of Distraction. It’s simply too good with Domination traits.

You also make a good point about shatter combos with greatsword. But then, each weapon should have it’s niche I think. If you want burst as a Thief, you take dagger. If you want CC as a Warrior, you take hammer. If you want team support as a Guardian, you take staff.

Greatsword on Mesmer is for bursting, and so is speccing for shatter, so those two will go hand in hand. It could be toned down, like reducing Mirror Blade damage or the Might/Vuln it stacks, but I simply think the 30% multiplier is too much for shattering in general. Again, though, this is exacerbated by how strong Mantra of Distraction is.

I suppose a lot of my complaints could be boiled down to “nerf Mantra of Distraction, or nerf the traits that affect it”.

So while guardians, elementalists, thieves can blind the heck out of everything, that is fine, but a mechanic that keeps mesmers alive in melee is suddenly game breaking. It’s also max. 4 shatters in a row.

serenke.4806:

So while guardians, elementalists, thieves can blind the heck out of everything, that is fine, but a mechanic that keeps mesmers alive in melee is suddenly game breaking. It’s also max. 4 shatters in a row.

Of course it’s not fine and some of these issues has been adressed. Elementalist blind doesn’t go through evades, though and the trait is also a grandmaster one.

JohnnyZero.5619:

Yes, nerfing shatter Mesmers as a whole is kind of the idea though, as they are one of the biggest outliers of balance.

About Mantras, I added the addendum to keep the current cool down as is IF they spec for Mantras. I think that’s pretty fair, given how they work and with the new traits that affect them (Power Cleanse, Restorative Mantras). Though on second thought, it’s not so much a problem with Mantras in general, and more of a problem with Mantra of Distraction. It’s simply too good with Domination traits.

You also make a good point about shatter combos with greatsword. But then, each weapon should have it’s niche I think. If you want burst as a Thief, you take dagger. If you want CC as a Warrior, you take hammer. If you want team support as a Guardian, you take staff.

Greatsword on Mesmer is for bursting, and so is speccing for shatter, so those two will go hand in hand. It could be toned down, like reducing Mirror Blade damage or the Might/Vuln it stacks, but I simply think the 30% multiplier is too much for shattering in general. Again, though, this is exacerbated by how strong Mantra of Distraction is.

I suppose a lot of my complaints could be boiled down to “nerf Mantra of Distraction, or nerf the traits that affect it”.

But saying each class has a designated “burst” weapon is exactly the problem. What about s/p thieves? Or s/d thieves even? Should they get shafted just because daggers exist? This is exactly why mesmer is extremely boring to play now. Go greatsword or go home, cuz all of your other options are terrible in comparison.

Greatsword is also the go-to weapon for interrupt builds now as well. So does that not contradict it being a burst weapon, instead of support? I can’t see greatsword being a burst weapon, when it outperforms every single other weapon option in power builds regardless if it’s burst or not. Play a staff/sword+pistol mesmer without confounding suggestions. See how much of a difference it plays.

Nerfing shatter damage kills our build diversity even more than it already is. The problem is greatsword + confounding suggestions, not shatter damage. 4-5 hours of using staff instead of greatsword proves this point.

I completely agree that shatter mesmer is over the top, but I don’t agree that nerfing every other shatter build who does not abuse greatsword/confounding suggestions would fix anything. It’s like necros with dumbfire. Burn is broken, so let’s nerf bleed output.

When I was your age, mesmer shatter was Sword + Pistol/Staff.
Screw this GS nonsense the kids are passing around nowadays.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

When I was your age, mesmer shatter was Sword + Pistol/Staff.
Screw this GS nonsense the kids are passing around nowadays.

I know right? Let’s not kill that playstyle even more than it already is :/.

OreoWolf.9564:

But saying each class has a designated “burst” weapon is exactly the problem. What about s/p thieves? Or s/d thieves even? Should they get shafted just because daggers exist? This is exactly why mesmer is extremely boring to play now. Go greatsword or go home, cuz all of your other options are terrible in comparison.

Greatsword is also the go-to weapon for interrupt builds now as well. So does that not contradict it being a burst weapon, instead of support? I can’t see greatsword being a burst weapon, when it outperforms every single other weapon option in power builds regardless if it’s burst or not. Play a staff/sword+pistol mesmer without confounding suggestions. See how much of a difference it plays.

Nerfing shatter damage kills our build diversity even more than it already is. The problem is greatsword + confounding suggestions, not shatter damage. 4-5 hours of using staff instead of greatsword proves this point.

I completely agree that shatter mesmer is over the top, but I don’t agree that nerfing every other shatter build who does not abuse greatsword/confounding suggestions would fix anything. It’s like necros with dumbfire. Burn is broken, so let’s nerf bleed output.

As much as I would love more build diversity, like most people here seem to want, balancing all of the professions and all of their weapons and all of their talents is a mountain of work I imagine, and really isn’t necessary for a successful PvP game. For instance, look at the most successful PvP game, League of Legends, and how they essentially shoehorn champions into certain roles and specific item builds. Sure there is some room to play, but in the end the meta will determine what is best.

So as far as I am concerned, your argument about Mesmers being “forced” to run greatsword is a moot point, as it is simply the best designed PvP weapon for them and for the role they fulfill best. I would love to see more diversity, but I simply think its not reasonable to expect ANET to make that a reality on the level some players expect. Min/maxxing will always be a thing with competitive games.

So basically when I made my case about certain weapons fulfilling certain roles, I tried to look at it as a developer, and I believe ANET wants certain weapons to perform certain roles, and the same goes for professions in respect to PvP. It’s much easier to balance that way, and I don’t think they’ll change that much.

That being said, what would YOU like to see changed for Mesmers?

nearlight.3064:

I think mesmer a bit too strong. I run mantra shatter so I’m more stunlock/support than outright burst, but the PU burst builds seem a bit enraging to most players if they can’t remain calm..

although I’ve beaten PU burst while running mantra, so maybe I’m just awesome, idk.

Power Block mesmer can definitely destroy PU shatter. Once you interrupt the heal/MI, then it’s gg for PU mesmers.

JohnnyZero.5619:

OreoWolf.9564:

But saying each class has a designated “burst” weapon is exactly the problem. What about s/p thieves? Or s/d thieves even? Should they get shafted just because daggers exist? This is exactly why mesmer is extremely boring to play now. Go greatsword or go home, cuz all of your other options are terrible in comparison.

Greatsword is also the go-to weapon for interrupt builds now as well. So does that not contradict it being a burst weapon, instead of support? I can’t see greatsword being a burst weapon, when it outperforms every single other weapon option in power builds regardless if it’s burst or not. Play a staff/sword+pistol mesmer without confounding suggestions. See how much of a difference it plays.

Nerfing shatter damage kills our build diversity even more than it already is. The problem is greatsword + confounding suggestions, not shatter damage. 4-5 hours of using staff instead of greatsword proves this point.

I completely agree that shatter mesmer is over the top, but I don’t agree that nerfing every other shatter build who does not abuse greatsword/confounding suggestions would fix anything. It’s like necros with dumbfire. Burn is broken, so let’s nerf bleed output.

As much as I would love more build diversity, like most people here seem to want, balancing all of the professions and all of their weapons and all of their talents is a mountain of work I imagine, and really isn’t necessary for a successful PvP game. For instance, look at the most successful PvP game, League of Legends, and how they essentially shoehorn champions into certain roles and specific item builds. Sure there is some room to play, but in the end the meta will determine what is best.

So as far as I am concerned, your argument about Mesmers being “forced” to run greatsword is a moot point, as it is simply the best designed PvP weapon for them and for the role they fulfill best. I would love to see more diversity, but I simply think its not reasonable to expect ANET to make that a reality on the level some players expect. Min/maxxing will always be a thing with competitive games.

So basically when I made my case about certain weapons fulfilling certain roles, I tried to look at it as a developer, and I believe ANET wants certain weapons to perform certain roles, and the same goes for professions in respect to PvP. It’s much easier to balance that way, and I don’t think they’ll change that much.

That being said, what would YOU like to see changed for Mesmers?

My argument is that greatsword is what makes shatter mesmer as strong as everyone is claiming it to be. You don’t get that burst damage with sword/pistol or staff. Mirrorblade does almost half of the potential “shatter” damage, and it’s the only reason people are going from 100-0 instantly. Now if sword/pistol or staff mesmers were oneshotting everything instantly from 1200 range, that’d be a different story lol.

I don’t understand why it’s so hard to understand. Shatter damage isn’t broken. Greatsword + confounding suggestions is.

Mesmer greatsword is an all damage little utility weapon. People need to couple it with something else(CC, immob etc) to land the burst.

Confounding suggestion+daze mantra really make the burst setup way too easy. Basically all those FOTM mesmer players are running this. Imagine either confounding suggestion or daze matra is taken out of the game. All these players will not be able to do anything. Sure they can still take PU but all they can do is just stealth running around and contribute nothing.