Why are people so upset about "AI"?

Why are people so upset about "AI"?

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Okay, so I’m not here to really “defend” anything (for the record yes, I do play an MM Necro, but luckily that’s not the big hot-spot at the moment), I’m just curious as to why people get so upset over any class with AI or non-player controlled abilities? I’ll just explain why I feel this way so, please feel free to come back, just not aggressively, I’m not being aggressive, just offering a whole-hearted second side of the story, and a slightly different way to view the ones we have, which leads me to wonder why people are so against them.

AI-Abilities in a nut shell are:
Spirits – They’re much like sigils, which are just passive bonuses, except they require a long cast time (each) and have health/placement in exchange for being a better passive benefit. Ranger spirits are much like mobile shaman totems in WoW, and I can’t say that many people every complained about shaman totems, they were more of a hindrance than a benefit 9 times out of 10. (They don’t get 1 shot anymore, neither)

Spirit weapons – Already kittenty, so no one complains, so I’ll just lump these with minions.

Minions – Yes, they’re AI controlled damage. But look further, its a kitable, killable, totally CCable DoT that takes up the place of a utility and costs slots that could be CC breakers or better defensive utilities. Plus all AI-pets die in heavy aoe even to a single target, or are nulled my fancy terrain foot work. They require literally about 70-90% traits to be viable, and you feel like a traitless guardian/necro with them dead. And there’s no way to spot-avoid for them, even if you dodge, they just stand there and get hit by churnings (etc).

Phantasms – Here I can’t argue too much, most phantasms are garbage, but the 2 that stand out are Zerker and Duelist, Zerker is much like minions except it lungest to attack and stays further from combat, thus misses some AoE, but are generally easy to burst down in cleave. Duelist is the only one I can say needs toned down because its ranged, hits super hard and scales with stats, can’t be “kited” so, okay, I won’t argue, its not “fun” to play against.

So overall:
- AI Pets kitable/CCable/Glitchable/Killable/Aoeable dots that are pretty stupid that take up utilities, and generally only provide an issue against enemies in 1v1.
- Buffs/Aoe Buffs that require a cast time to have up, and that’s 1.5 per so most AI builds require a 3-6 second ramp up time of casting these abilities if they’re not ready at the start of the fight.
- Builds that require very heavy point allocation to make them viable, and are neigh useless once they AI is cleaved down.

The biggest fixes I see that need to be made are:
-Burning needs to do less damage. Those spirit rangers wouldn’t be so potent if they weren’t giving such a strong fire proc to all the condi builds in this condi-heavy meta.
-Tab targeting should “prefer” humans over AI.
-Players need to learn that you can turn off “Show all Enemies” and “Show all NPC Names”, and turn ON “Show all Players” and you won’t get all the name clutter from all the AI pets, and will only see the player’s name (This works against mesmers as well!)

I’ll be honest, as an MM I feel pretty weak right now in an aoe condi meta and CC meta, where most mm builds only have 1 really long CD CC break (if that), little to no AOE, no aoe buffs, and EXTREMELY weak to conditions, especially AOE conditions.

I don’t think its an AI issue, because spirit rangers aren’t using AI, they have attackable signets… It’s a matter of SOME stuff (like conditions) being too potent, and people not knowing how to properly handle multiple targets. Thoughts?

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

(edited by ronpierce.2760)

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Posted by: Lighter.5631

Lighter.5631

yea yea kitable killable do that while the actual enemy spamming them condis on you.

“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

yea yea kitable killable do that while necro spamming them condis on you.

There aren’t many Condition-based MMs out there, and those that are have to give up either a ton of condition damage and things like terror for minion damage to even matter, or just have weak pets and aren’t using useful traits. If a necro wants to go Condi build, minions are the least of anyones’ worries…

Despite popular belief, necros aren’t running 30/30/30/30/30 and 10 utilities. Good Condi necros are terror based and not MMs.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

(edited by ronpierce.2760)

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Posted by: rsq.3581

rsq.3581

I don’t think having builds which are easier to play or require less APM are inherently bad. Sometimes it’s nice to have a very simple to play, very straightforward build.

The problem comes from when an AI focused build is more successful and effective than one that requires thought and coordination. That’s why people complain about spirit rangers, phantasm mesmers, and the like.

Salphir | Salfir | Falana
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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

I don’t think having builds which are easier to play or require less APM are inherently bad. Sometimes it’s nice to have a very simple to play, very straightforward build.

The problem comes from when an AI focused build is more successful and effective than one that requires thought and coordination. That’s why people complain about spirit rangers, phantasm mesmers, and the like.

What most people won’t consider, however, a couple things:

- Ease of play shouldn’t really factor into balance. It’s a rough line to tread, but balance is balance, not play a build so complex a newer player could never understand it, thus you win automatically, but there is some merit to what you said, it shouldn’t be MORE effective. If its more effective at all, its not balanced, hence yes, I agree some spirit ranger stuff should be toned down, and I also explained why the aoe fire buff is more powerful than it normally would be (way more condi builds running around).

- A lot of AI isn’t just AI controlled with the exception of mesmers and thieves guild which do pretty well on their own, Spirits are just attackable signets, they don’t really DO anything. Imagine if they were just signets, and a trait caused the signets to work AOE-wise. Instead people would cry that rangers have the best support and are OP, at least not we have counter play (kill the spirits). People say there is no counter play, but they just don’t take advantage of the counter play, and don’t think about the fact that they don’t have to be AI, they’re still utilities, at least now we CAN do something about them.

- Pets are stupid and all require massively long cast times and usually decent cooldowns on top of being the most trait-intensive builds in the game. And I wouldn’t say playing AI builds are even “easier” because effectively lining up a Putrid explosion with a dumb AI that runs around like a moron, and getting off 1.5 sec summon casts mid-fight, and being able to handle yourself with all of your minions AOEd down is no easy task. They have a BIT of an upper hand vs non 1v1 builds, but that’s true in any case you put a 1v1 build versus a team-fighting build, generally the 1v1 build comes out on top. However, unlike most good 1v1/roaming builds, you can’t go on a ledge and jump down and ignore 80% of their abilities for a good 4-10 seconds.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Psychogene.6780

Psychogene.6780

Think one of the biggest complaints has nothing to do with the actual A.I. Since A.I and NPC’s are one and the same, without question there is just too much NPC’s that clutter the screen/action. It takes away from the aesthetic appeal of the game and detracts from viewer enjoyable.

Can you imagine how much better people would be able to play/see the combat if rangers only got one spirit or necromancers had only on minion that performed all the same functions as what is currently available?

They need to fix this clutter, merge the minions, spirits (leaving phantasms alone) because its a bigger issue then the A.I’s. Fixing it at the same time as giving us a much better targetting system and it will do so much to alleviate the problems by the players/viewers.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Think one of the biggest complaints has nothing to do with the actual A.I. Since A.I and NPC’s are one and the same, without question there is just too much NPC’s that clutter the screen/action. It takes away from the aesthetic appeal of the game and detracts from viewer enjoyable.

Can you imagine how much better people would be able to play/see the combat if rangers only got one spirit or necromancers had only on minion that performed all the same functions as what is currently available?

They need to fix this clutter, merge the minions, spirits (leaving phantasms alone) because its a bigger issue then the A.I’s. Fixing it at the same time as giving us a much better targetting system and it will do so much to alleviate the problems by the players/viewers.

I can agree that the clutter is overboard. Especially with MMs, rangers and actually Mesmer too (if not worse because of the ethereal fields), spirits could definitely use some merging, same with minions, but that would require a lot of re-balancing of traits (like minion siphons for example)

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Lighter.5631

Lighter.5631

yea yea kitable killable do that while necro spamming them condis on you.

There aren’t many Condition-based MMs out there, and those that are have to give up either a ton of condition damage and things like terror for minion damage to even matter, or just have weak pets and aren’t using useful traits. If a necro wants to go Condi build, minions are the least of anyones’ worries…

Despite popular belief, necros aren’t running 30/30/30/30/30 and 10 utilities. Good Condi necros are terror based and not MMs.

and how does it change the fact that the enemies will kill you while you killing them minions. yes yes zerker nubs, ok i spec for tankier, how long does it take to kill minions?Oh those minions are all kittable killable ccable, i dont even know why would you bring up glitchable because thats against the rules.
tell me how to kill them minions, auto attack? burst? leave you with nothing to kill the master after? use your stability because minion and master keep CC you while you trying to kill it? so you dont have it for later? please teach me your way to kit them minions while fighting with its master. no, 2 minions is not bad, but when you are fighting a group of 3 minion necro 1 spirit ranger and 1 mesmer thats were gets frustrating, you can’t even see a kitten thing how can you even target someone because the minions keep get in the way not to mention when they are asuras and they also keep taking important attacks for the actual enemies, did i mention that turrets are ai too? they are not that bad because they dont move and engi dont summon a tons of them except elite with long cd, oh and aoe spam able you say? i guess we are all back to necro, engi and ranger or maybe mesmer again. and yes im a raging noob, i dont even know why am i back to this forums or this game, thanks for reminding me to leave again, yet i might come back some time when i’m bored. made by the casuals for casuals, good thing.

“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748

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Posted by: Nuka Cola.8520

Nuka Cola.8520

When im fighting some1 without losing him as my target and clones created by DE attack warthogs around me we have a serious AI problem. Their ai is as bs as it gets for our day n age. Good way to see how laughable this ai is is in fotm jellyfish boss. You spawn clones (from utilities/weapons/DE) and half the time they will be attacking boss ads instead of what you targeted, like wtf is this? Did anyone programed this thing or they fund some codes from AI created in 1988 and pasted it to gw2, a 2012 game…

Fact: every Thief tells you to “l2p” when the subject is to nerf stealth.

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Posted by: google.3709

google.3709

Pets like these just arent healthy for PvP

  • Visual clutter in fights, bad for gamplay and viwers
  • They arent tied to the player’s stats. allowing the user to bunker while pets deal most of the damage

most builds forces the player to chose between damage/survival. except this kinda of builds so if you think about it, it isnt fair how players can play tanky while the AI does most their damage for them, and while killing them is an option, you have to consider that by the time you get to the actual player, you’ve used alot of cool downs, taken a lot of damage, wasted a lot of time and then the other play can survive you long enough to recast all the pets. and its like starting over all again if you have survived all this long(prob not).

(edited by google.3709)

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Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

Did you ever fight a fight in which they have 3 MM Necro, 1 Mesmer? I don’t think you did at all. Because if u did, this thread will not be made.

Here a present for you!!!

Attachments:

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

(edited by Stealth.9324)

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Posted by: samo.1054

samo.1054

The biggest problem I see with AI controled entities is that they completely cludge up the battlefield. This game as it is has a lot of problems with skill animations, Asuras that are just way too small as it is … and when you have a MM necro, spirit ranger and mesmer in opposing team all in the mid point fighting against you, you just ask yourself “what the kitten is this kitten?”

It’s as simple as that… I would have to take a screenshot and stare at it for 10 seconds just to find the kittening player I wanted to target… Does that not seem wrong?

So this game pretty much boils down to complete chaos and mindless AoE spam right now… And if some people don’t find that bothering, that’s fine, I’m happy for them. But this IS what turns great many players away from GW2 sPvP.

(edited by samo.1054)

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Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

Did you ever fight a fight in which they have 3 MM Necro, 1 Mesmer? I don’t think you did at all. Because if u did, this thread will not be made.

Here a present for you!!!

My old friend,..we meet again. This time it is in an other persons photo, on a different persons thread,..but I still recognise you old friend..I can never forget the face of 400% more A.I than actual players…always a pleasure to see you again.

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Posted by: Conan.8046

Conan.8046

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Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

Did you ever fight a fight in which they have 3 MM Necro, 1 Mesmer? I don’t think you did at all. Because if u did, this thread will not be made.

Here a present for you!!!

My old friend,..we meet again. This time it is in an other persons photo, on a different persons thread,..but I still recognise you old friend..I can never forget the face of 400% more A.I than actual players…always a pleasure to see you again.

Did we meet? Sorry if I hurt your feeling by not recognising you…

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

(edited by Stealth.9324)

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Why upset with AI?

-In pvp while dueling a thief on the beach point my minios ran off to kill a shark on the other side of the map..

-Foefire; while dueling my minions ran off to fight a thief on the other side of the map..

-Minions in general are too slow and you can’t control them.. {I am still am wondering why anet hasn’t introduced the “fiery sword” mechanic to the minion elite}

-Minions getting stuck..

-Dipping your toe in water destroys your minions… ^^

-A blind and a cripple minion something necro’s don’t have enough of.. really..small blind and cripple on utilities without being able to destroy your minions? (except rats)
and minions having aweful AI.

Combine this with the aweful targetting system also targetting pets and minions …on the other side of the map and it’s GG a-net..

54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
E.A.D.

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Why upset with AI?

-In pvp while dueling a thief on the beach point my minios ran off to kill a shark on the other side of the map..

-Foefire; while dueling my minions ran off to fight a thief on the other side of the map..

-Minions in general are too slow and you can’t control them.. {I am still am wondering why anet hasn’t introduced the “fiery sword” mechanic to the minion elite}

-Minions getting stuck..

-Dipping your toe in water destroys your minions… ^^

-A blind and a cripple minion something necro’s don’t have enough of.. really..small blind and cripple on utilities without being able to destroy your minions? (except rats)
and minions having aweful AI.

Combine this with the aweful targetting system also targetting pets and minions …on the other side of the map and it’s GG a-net..

That’s actually my point. People saying pet builds are skill-less dont take into consideration what they can do about making the pets useless like terrain advantages, bugging them out, sheer Aoe, etc.

Also, to that picture; Yeah, sure if you have 4-5 of them yes it gets clutter-some. But that doesn’t make them OP. that picture didnt have npc names off, and that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Of they were off, clicking and finding the enemy players would be easy. And yes is “overwhelming” but if there’s that much AI in 1 spot, a condi engi and a condi necro would wipe every one of them off the map in about 4 seconds.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

I never said a thing about being OP or not. And tbh, if they were off, in my opinion, finding enemy even harder because he keep moving and minion will keep cover his body. Also if you have a friendly MM master nearby, it will make confused who is allies, who is enemies. But yeah, they never OP, they just annoy the crap out of me when there are so many in one spot like that.

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

kitten iduelist kitten its mother kitten its father kitten its great gran daddy Paul. If there is any AI I loathe more its iduelist.

Anyways ai body block projectiles to hell and qualify for the aoe cap so they soak up damage from other targets.

The great forum duppy.

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Posted by: Aza.2105

Aza.2105

AI promotes unintelligent gameplay.

But then again, gw2 is a unintelligent game. Which is why AI and passive play a enormous part of the game.

Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

AI promotes unintelligent gameplay.

But then again, gw2 is a unintelligent game. Which is why AI and passive play a enormous part of the game.

To be fair, it takes more active play controlling an enemy to have effective AI than all the loads of procs and background effects in the game, which is much more “unintelligent”, in my honest opinion. At least being skillful enough to allow high up-time on minions requires more thought than hitting an enemy and 20% of the time something extra happens.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Hammerheart.1426

Hammerheart.1426

Minions should be the size of Pokemon(bone minions are a good size) and should require a double click to target manually.

Ranger pets are ok when it comes to clutter and targeting.

Spirits are a joke, having them out clutters just as bad as a MM Necro. These need to be passive buffs like Mantras that maybe have some visual indicator like a floating orb around the Ranger’s head.

But yeah, the amount of passive play in this game is borderline ridiculous

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Posted by: emon.1863

emon.1863

Okay, so I’m not here to really “defend” anything (for the record yes, I do play an MM Necro, but luckily that’s not the big hot-spot at the moment), I’m just curious as to why people get so upset over any class with AI or non-player controlled abilities? I’ll just explain why I feel this way so, please feel free to come back, just not aggressively, I’m not being aggressive, just offering a whole-hearted second side of the story, and a slightly different way to view the ones we have, which leads me to wonder why people are so against them.

AI-Abilities in a nut shell are:
Spirits – They’re much like sigils, which are just passive bonuses, except they require a long cast time (each) and have health/placement in exchange for being a better passive benefit. Ranger spirits are much like mobile shaman totems in WoW, and I can’t say that many people every complained about shaman totems, they were more of a hindrance than a benefit 9 times out of 10. (They don’t get 1 shot anymore, neither)

Spirit weapons – Already kittenty, so no one complains, so I’ll just lump these with minions.

Minions – Yes, they’re AI controlled damage. But look further, its a kitable, killable, totally CCable DoT that takes up the place of a utility and costs slots that could be CC breakers or better defensive utilities. Plus all AI-pets die in heavy aoe even to a single target, or are nulled my fancy terrain foot work. They require literally about 70-90% traits to be viable, and you feel like a traitless guardian/necro with them dead. And there’s no way to spot-avoid for them, even if you dodge, they just stand there and get hit by churnings (etc).

Phantasms – Here I can’t argue too much, most phantasms are garbage, but the 2 that stand out are Zerker and Duelist, Zerker is much like minions except it lungest to attack and stays further from combat, thus misses some AoE, but are generally easy to burst down in cleave. Duelist is the only one I can say needs toned down because its ranged, hits super hard and scales with stats, can’t be “kited” so, okay, I won’t argue, its not “fun” to play against.

So overall:
- AI Pets kitable/CCable/Glitchable/Killable/Aoeable dots that are pretty stupid that take up utilities, and generally only provide an issue against enemies in 1v1.
- Buffs/Aoe Buffs that require a cast time to have up, and that’s 1.5 per so most AI builds require a 3-6 second ramp up time of casting these abilities if they’re not ready at the start of the fight.
- Builds that require very heavy point allocation to make them viable, and are neigh useless once they AI is cleaved down.

The biggest fixes I see that need to be made are:
-Burning needs to do less damage. Those spirit rangers wouldn’t be so potent if they weren’t giving such a strong fire proc to all the condi builds in this condi-heavy meta.
-Tab targeting should “prefer” humans over AI.
-Players need to learn that you can turn off “Show all Enemies” and “Show all NPC Names”, and turn ON “Show all Players” and you won’t get all the name clutter from all the AI pets, and will only see the player’s name (This works against mesmers as well!)

I’ll be honest, as an MM I feel pretty weak right now in an aoe condi meta and CC meta, where most mm builds only have 1 really long CD CC break (if that), little to no AOE, no aoe buffs, and EXTREMELY weak to conditions, especially AOE conditions.

I don’t think its an AI issue, because spirit rangers aren’t using AI, they have attackable signets… It’s a matter of SOME stuff (like conditions) being too potent, and people not knowing how to properly handle multiple targets. Thoughts?

Dont know why ppl are qq about NPCs, only issue i have with minions is they path finding and state changing (it is still not fixed). How many times i was in situation where Minions just enjoy’d the texuters on the wall, while I was in fight. How many times Minions run to opponent and just looked at him, without even idea that he must be attacked… and so on.

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Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

Emon, please have a look at the picture I have post and you will understand why.

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

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Posted by: google.3709

google.3709

sadly enough.. thats not an exaggeration lol thats what team fights look now days, pets all over

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Posted by: Advent Leader.1083

Advent Leader.1083

Actually, you forgot one more AI minion: the lowly engineer turrets, whose current use is just positional control/CC. Don’t look at it for it’s damage, as it’s an a.) immobile minion b.) dies to any dropped AOE and c.) did I forget about it’s plink damage?

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Posted by: emon.1863

emon.1863

Emon, please have a look at the picture I have post and you will understand why.

I can clearly see Players on you pic. So again, I dont se the problem. MM has very low dmg and it cant hold the point – usless for a team.

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

When you look at a Ranger’s pet as little more than a DOT that forgets to tick 1 out of every 3 ticks, you get a new appreciation for what AI really means in this game. Rangers have been begging ANet to fix Ranger pets to actually work half the time and expand on them to actually require more input from the player. ANet has ignored them since day 1 and thus why the Ranger class is in such a miserable state right now.

The fact that Spirits are so complained about baffles my mind at times. They have about 8k HP and are killed in seconds to AE. Granted they can be resummoned, but most AE that can down them the first time will be up again within 10 seconds to do it again when they’re all resummoned anyway. And when you take these spirits as a ranger you forego all stability and stun breaks available to the class so you’re a sitting duck to any type of CC in this game.

When you ask other people to explain why they’re overpowered they can’t… all they can do is sit there having a tantrum saying nerf rangers all day. The class has nothing to fall back on, so if nerfed you’re asking ANet to remove it from the game effectively. And while that’s not justification to leave an overpowered mechanic in the game, I’m not sure how it is seen as being overpowered in the first place.

Rangers, just like Necros and Engineers, are riding the condition biased meta while they can because ANet has not given either of these classes any option outside of condition gameplay. I can’t imagine Spirits or AI in general is the issue here.

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Posted by: Divus.3175

Divus.3175

The problem I’ve got as engineer, trying not to spam bombs, and playing aggressivly with rifle, I can’t hit spirit ranger with anything because of his pets. With one target attacks I hit mostly pets, because they get in the way of projectile. With aoe I still don’t hit ranger, because of 5 people being hit by aoe cap. And once I used all my cooldowns to kill spirits he has one getting back from cooldown, and I didn’t even start fighting my main target.

Same with necro pets. I know they are a bit squichy, but they still have some active effects, like immobilize or knockdown. Isn’t that sometimes too much?

Mesmers phantasms? Mesmer has to play a bit different than rangers or necros, they are more squishy, so they have to kite you forever to deal damage. Dps of phantasms are too high on pvp, mostly because of low cooldowns.

Turrets? They’re stationary, die in seconds and deal medium damage. Elite is strong because of 2 sec. daze and net turret, not because of the damage.

[KING] Desolation – Pikan Parom (engineer), Grace Parom (ele)

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Posted by: Julius.1094

Julius.1094

There are two HUGE problems with minions as they are that are detrimental to the game. Including ranger pet, clones/phantasms and spirits. The main one is visibility.

The nodes in this game are SMALL, one mesmer or one spirit ranger is OK, but once you stack two or three of those you very quickly get to the point where you just can’t see anything. And do tell me in what universe is not being able to see acceptable for skill pvp? It reduces skill because when you got a butt load of things on point all overlapping you got little choice but to just spam AOE. Pair that with asuras (which is what everyone plays) and targeting just sucks in this game. Not “hard” in the good sense of challenging, it’s bad, because you spend more time trying to click on a valid target than actually fighting when you add the stealth targeting reset to that… on jeez forgive me if playing wackamole with my mouse is not what I’m looking for as fun in pvp. So yeah, visibility and targeting, that’s the issue, this game has some of the worse I’ve ever seen in both categories.

Vidallis – 50 Shades of Pink – Engi/Warrior

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Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

Emon, please have a look at the picture I have post and you will understand why.

I can clearly see Players on you pic. So again, I dont se the problem. MM has very low dmg and it cant hold the point – usless for a team.

O-O, you don’t get it, do you? We never talk about the dams or being useful, look at the picture and please tell me who I am supposed to fight and how many players are in there? They are plain annoying and a pain to target his owner.

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

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Posted by: emon.1863

emon.1863

Emon, please have a look at the picture I have post and you will understand why.

I can clearly see Players on you pic. So again, I dont se the problem. MM has very low dmg and it cant hold the point – usless for a team.

O-O, you don’t get it, do you? We never talk about the dams or being useful, look at the picture and please tell me who I am supposed to fight and how many players are in there? They are plain annoying and a pain to target his owner.

1.You are guard – not a really good fighter
2.it was 2v2 against classes/builds that are very powerful on 1vs1
3.You should fall back or if you was a fighter then ranger (standing on mid point), because he could res.

Overall dont see any issues with it. All enemys are clearly visible and dont know how could NPC could be a problem here.

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Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

1/ I am a DPS Guard-Since when people think Guard has to BUNKER?
2/ MM Necro is POWERFUL????That is just wrong in any level….
3/ Did you ever see me fight in that pics?

Enemy are clearly visible…Ok, we have someone here got 20/20 vision here. Dude, I strongly recommend you join in Sniper’ Squad as a career. I am sure you would do very well…

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

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Posted by: emon.1863

emon.1863

1/ I am a DPS Guard-Since when people think Guard has to BUNKER?
2/ MM Necro is POWERFUL????That is just wrong in any level….
3/ Did you ever see me fight in that pics?

Enemy are clearly visible…Ok, we have someone here got 20/20 vision here. Dude, I strongly recommend you join in Sniper’ Squad as a career. I am sure you would do very well…

this is going completetly to ‘out of topic’ .
Yes MM is powerfull in 1vs1 situations!
Personally I find mesmer clones/phantoms much more confusing (mostly because of particle effects), then MM.

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Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

1/ I am a DPS Guard-Since when people think Guard has to BUNKER?
2/ MM Necro is POWERFUL????That is just wrong in any level….
3/ Did you ever see me fight in that pics?

Enemy are clearly visible…Ok, we have someone here got 20/20 vision here. Dude, I strongly recommend you join in Sniper’ Squad as a career. I am sure you would do very well…

this is going completetly to ‘out of topic’ .
Yes MM is powerfull in 1vs1 situations!
Personally I find mesmer clones/phantoms much more confusing (mostly because of particle effects), then MM.

MM is powerful in 1v1 situation o-O? I normally see them as free kill, save for some extremely skill. The lack of means to generate LF, Condi Removal, Breakstun, with all the weakness that a normal Necro has, I don’t see how it is powerful.

When you look at the picture, everything so clear because they are not moving. In real battle, good luck with finding a real target with all that AI moving around, also as kitten as lock target ATM, we easily lose sight of them. The only real counter for them is spam AoE until they are gone. And I am talking about when yo don’t have AoE, finding them is a pain on the neck.

Mesmer Phantasm/Clone is easy , because they are stand still. And what particle effect are you talking about?Once you have the real lock on, Mesmer has no way to shake it off unless Stealth, while it is not in the case if MM Necro because they move and you lose target.

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.