Guild Wars 2

Serious question. Can two builds (malyx revenant and condi reaper) really make team aoe condi cleanse obsolete? Let’s review the facts: pre-HoT, condi builds were kept out of the meta by team aoe condi cleanses, most notably by only three builds:
1) D/D cele ele, from water traitline
2) Shoutbow, from traited warhorn and soldier rune
3) Bunker Guard, from honor traitline and soldier rune

Post HoT, the same number of classes have the ability to provide team condi clears:
1) Tempest, from aurashare+water traitline, plus shouts and soldier runes.
2) Ranger, shouts are now amazing and very low CD, so we should start to see more rangers running around with ~ 3-4 shouts and soldier runes.
3) Reaper, shouts are low CD and quite good. Soldier rune works great with vipers, marauders, wanderers, etc. We should start seeing more Reapers running bruiser builds with ~3-4 shouts and soldier runes.

And honorable mentions:
4) Warrior hasn’t been great since HoT…maybe with the new amulets and minor patch changes another shoutbow type build might work? (this is not rhetorical, please someone fill me in).
5) Unfortunately Bunker guard is no longer viable, but maybe it will be depending on how the new meta/amulets shake out.

We have the tools to bring aoe condi cleanse back in a big way (tempest, ranger, reaper), and not necessarily from dedicated support builds, either. Even having a dps ranger and dps reaper on the team, both running soldier runes would trash a condi team easily. I’m going to clarify that I’m not against a condi meta, only that I find it kind of odd that we are in one since the same factors that previously prevented a condi meta (aoe cleanse) are still at play, just shifted to other classes.

We’re not in a meta yet. The patch came out yesterday.

reapers are too busy destroying people by applying condis
eles are too weak to properly function
which leaves only rangers

this combined with condis being way easier to apply than before

There’s a thread on the War subforum discussing a shoutbow build, which seems to be getting some positive feedback. Apparently the Mender’s amulet has worked well for this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/The-New-Shout-Warrior-Build/first#post5950517

Keep in mind that condi cleanse isn’t the only counter to this build. High CC can shut down necros pretty well and it’s also possible that people find enough viable burst builds to prevent condi classes from getting the sustained long fights they need to get the upper hand.

Not shure we end in a condi meta. But shure is that a lot of condies will fly around doing significant damage. The new amulets are strong and support hybrid builds.

Condi application far exceeds condi removal with HoT release….only thing that kept condis in check were DS eles. Not saying DS didn’t need a nerf because tons of healing + DS completely countered condi builds but with the nerf of DS Anet basically buffed condi application of necros to such extent that having resistance will act AGAINST you against condimancers which is broken and/or plain stupid.

Shoutbow warrior basically died on 23rd June last year
— Healing from shouts nerfed to dirt
— Warhorn trait got nerfed unnecessarily (I mean really??)

Warriors are more kitten now than before yesterday’s patch due to zerker stance nerf and necro hard countering warriors.

Let’s get one thing clear, if we can “having condition builds viable in the meta” is NOT the same as “a condition meta”. The last meta was deemed a bunker meta because you had little reason to not be sustainy. At this point, thieves are playing Power, Eles are often playing Power, DH is power, scrapper is power, etc.

The meta hasn’t settled, and there honestly seems to be a mixed bag. To me, that’s ideal. A few condition spoilers being viable is ideal for diversity. People just don’t like that because they hate running cleanses and learning to handle them properly.

Maybe some of the Condi builds are a little strong right now, but I mean… There also ‘OP’ power builds. Things change and that’s just sort of how it is. Never understood the Condition stigma, I think much of it is just in people’s heads.

Edit: There is however a bit of a coverage issue though, which I find to be the bigger issue. Some skills apply too many effects and procs at once making it impossible to reliably condition clear. But that’s not a condition problem so much as a few passive traits. Certainly not the first time passive have created a larger issue.

Because of the meta shift to selfish builds that can counter conditions easily.

Mallyx Rev and Necro Reaper.

The only viable condi counter were DS Ele and Bunker mesmer (two etherals fields removing condies on pulse). Both had been trash. Anet want a condi meta now.

Sad… but meta is now decide by Anet nerfed… and it should be decided by players choice and builds.

Jourdelune.7456:

Sad… but meta is now decide by Anet nerfed… and it should be decided by players choice and builds.

no, the meta is not decided by the ANet, it’s by the sPvP community. Whoever cry the loudest and gather the most to share their conviction force Anet to make nerfs.

You just have to repeat what was done, now the meta will be reapers and thieves, time to gather around and cry and moan until they are nerfed. I intended to make sure they get a taste of their own medicine (those why cried for nerfs and changes).

Thieves have always countered necros and reapers; perhaps the thief buffs will keep necros in line even moreso?

I don’t think we are in any meta yet, its been 1 day. As for what is popular, sure some condi builds seem to be doing well, but there are power builds doing good also.

Lets wait a week or two and see how things settle before we start the meta complaining. Keep experimenting and trying new things.

I guess I should clarify: when I say “condi meta” I don’t mean the new meta which will result after the 1/26 patch, just the post HoT meta. Also, I don’t even mean “meta” as the formally defined “tournament meta”, just what’s really commonly and effectively used by good players.

People have been saying that “condition meta” thing since late 2012. I guess if you survived that condition meta till now, you will be fine in the future.

Rym.1469:

People have been saying that “condition meta” thing since late 2012. I guess if you survived that condition meta till now, you will be fine in the future.

And at most, there has been 1 condition build at a time used in said “condi meta.” Fact is, we have never actually seen a condition meta in PvP.