Guild Wars 2

Rezz.8019:

Comparing a MMO game to some japanese fighter game is just lol… I hope you know that many of those people have serious creativity problems.

They’re completely different, and Anet did want to get everyone on the same level. Meaning: if one player is good and can protect himself against burst all day long, but other player isn’t, it would lead to unfair advantage.
Also: bursts would become useless after a while as everyone would learn to play, and it would just be bunkers all the way.

What does the MMO element of GW2 have to do with sPvP 5v5 combat?

I’m pretty sure Arena Net never intended to remove the advantages gained by skill, as you claim. There’s nothing unfair about gaining advantage by avoiding damage better than someone else.

Until you win tournaments with 5 bunkers, we can all rest assured you’re wrong about the future of the meta as well.

There’s nothing “completely different” about action-oriented combat vs action-oriented combat. Games, including RPG-type games, have come a long way since 8-bit turn-based combat where characters had virtually no direct interaction.

It’s obvious that such elements as the OP suggests are already in the game and were intended to be. Many powerful abilities require channeling (can be interrupted), immobilize the caster, are more difficult than average to connect, etc.

The discussion here is whether there are enough of these elements in the gameplay of some bursting mechanics, and if they’re done as well as they could be.

Rezz.8019:

Comparing a MMO game to some japanese fighter game is just lol… I hope you know that many of those people have serious creativity problems.

They’re completely different, and Anet did want to get everyone on the same level. Meaning: if one player is good and can protect himself against burst all day long, but other player isn’t, it would lead to unfair advantage.
Also: bursts would become useless after a while as everyone would learn to play, and it would just be bunkers all the way.

Creativity has little to do with logical intuitiveness. I’m using Street Fighter as an example because how masterfully it employs necessary conventions in an action game. You’ll actually find many of the conventions I pointed out used many other games, and some even exist in sports like boxing, MMA, etc.

@Virgil

I actually think certain MMO features are holding GW2’s PvP back from what it could be. I’m not entirely sure why they didn’t do so in the first place, but ANet needs to design PvP for PvP. There are so many mechanics and traits from PvE that carry over that are either useless or actually detract from the experience as a whole.

I think a Spiderman sensor would be a great idea for GW2. A tingling effect of an in coming attack to at least be able to dodge the “opening” attack from thieves for example.

I actually really enjoy the burst in this game. I like that if I land my stuff my opponent is probably dead or badly wounded and I like that it’s possible to learn how to counter the same approach being used against me.

Israel.7056:

I actually really enjoy the burst in this game. I like that if I land my stuff my opponent is probably dead or badly wounded and I like that it’s possible to learn how to counter the same approach being used against me.

It isn’t that landing burst results in an advantageous situation that I personally have a problem with. It’s that the act of landing burst is sometimes so trivial or difficult to follow that the reward is deemed too outrageous for the action performed by some of us.

Crit damage +power+precision stacking gives the highest returns by far compared to any other stat stacking.

The only classes you see shining in defense only shine due to their innate abilities, not because of their gear stats. Boons are extremely potent for defensive purposes — so is CC. Guess who are the best bunkers? Guardian, ele, and engineer, all of which have ample access to boons and CC.

You won’t ever see a mesmer gearing for toughness, because its pointless. They can’t tank hits, ever. Their survivability comes from stealth avoidance and immunities, since they have no access to boons besides might.

Gearing for toughness/condi damage has horrible returns unless your class has high innate abilities that synergize. Thieves can pull off conditions unlike any other class because they can stack conditions quickly and consistently, as can engineers. Necros and rangers, not so much anymore. Neither do mesmers.

Conditions are also easily removed by so many classes for the effort it takes to stack them for non-thief/engi classes.

Some classes have significantly larger base numbers to their abilities, while others have incredibly low base numbers. Look at the ranger greatsword vs. the warrrior’s greatsword or the thief’s daggers. Damage differences are too large.

Numbers are completely out of tune. Some classes like the necro were overnerfed and are on the garbage bin besides corrupting boons and aoe fear because their own damage is so terrible and staff is their only good weapon. What do you bring a necro for besides marks and corrupt boons? Certainly not for his minions, certainly not for his spectral skills, certainly not for his damage, and certainly not for his poor survivability since he can’t play attrition without the kind of healing true attrition classes like the ele and guardian have.

I think Zenith brings up some good points. Gearing for DPS provides vastly superior returns than gearing for defense. Is that intentional, since offensive boons are generally more lackluster than defensive?

I’ve been personally fighting with an internal struggle regarding Protection. 33% damage reduction, just for having the boon. In order to balance this boon existing, gear has to be only so effective. Any class that does not have access to Protection basically can’t take hits, and I’m thinking more and more it’s solely because of Protection.

Perhaps if it was 10% damage reduction, or stacked in Intensity and started at 2% to be balanced around that way, the game might be different. I don’t know, just rambling ideas around. There just feels like something’s off, like a kink in one’s neck that won’t quite crack, but once it does, it’ll feel amazing.

I really wouldn’t mind it if they took away protection and regeneration if they also tone down the burst. The game is currently balanced around extremes. It feels as though somewhere down the line they loss control of one aspect and had to compensate by increasing its counter- balancing towards a zero sum without too much consideration of the interplay between individual variables.

Personally, I’d prefer it if they designed defense around positioning through hitboxes and disengages, and momentary damage mitigation (dodges/blocking). Defensive boon stacking, especially with the ele, feels more like a baseline supplement in a fight rather than a reactive strategy. There’s too much emphasis on setup over skill.

not going to read the whole thread

THE REAL PROBLEM IS AoE DAMAGE.

NOT BURST

-Icifyr

IceTenacious.4126:

not going to read the whole thread

THE REAL PROBLEM IS AoE DAMAGE.

NOT BURST

-Icifyr

aoe is too stronk, but not strong enough for slick shoes

IceTenacious.4126:

not going to read the whole thread

THE REAL PROBLEM IS AoE DAMAGE.

NOT BURST

-Icifyr

lol most of the aoe skills u can walk away b4 taking any real dmg . 1 dodge roll in any direction and ur safe while the op has a 30sec cd wth r u talking about

urinfamousr.7631:

IceTenacious.4126:

not going to read the whole thread

THE REAL PROBLEM IS AoE DAMAGE.

NOT BURST

-Icifyr

lol most of the aoe skills u can walk away b4 taking any real dmg . 1 dodge roll in any direction and ur safe while the op has a 30sec cd wth r u talking about

You make it sound like everything is dodgeable at any time. Ever tried getting aoe bombed by a ele and necro while trying to rezz a team mate?

I think putting protection and regeneration on the same classes is why we see bunkers ending up too strong (in the case of guardian/ele) – perhaps split them up, or perhaps change protection from a straight 33% damage prevention to something like +500 toughness, to allow these classes to build more offensively and end up in a more balanced state.

Equally it’s possible that crit damage % scales too high, and should perhaps be hard capped around the 60 crit damage mark, reducing the instances of over-scaling burst.

@OP: I think it is pretty much spot on.
And I believe Zenith brings up some important points that I at least have been puzzled about as well.

NaturalPortman.9562:

urinfamousr.7631:

IceTenacious.4126:

not going to read the whole thread

THE REAL PROBLEM IS AoE DAMAGE.

NOT BURST

-Icifyr

lol most of the aoe skills u can walk away b4 taking any real dmg . 1 dodge roll in any direction and ur safe while the op has a 30sec cd wth r u talking about

You make it sound like everything is dodgeable at any time. Ever tried getting aoe bombed by a ele and necro while trying to rezz a team mate?

It’s wrong to expect people to dodge everything. You could easily say for shockwave in GW1: just dodge it. But in reality it’s not that easy, and people still QQed about it until it finally got nerfed. It’s quite sad that PvP in this game is simply forgotten.