Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen plenty of threads asking for anet to add a deathmatch mode to pvp. At first I agreed then I started to become totally against it. Why? The matches would be over very quickly, due to gw2 excessive damage and spamming of skills.

In gw1, the method of assist training wasn’t always guaranteed. This is because the damage was much lower and there were tons of ways to negate and minimize damage, knockdowns and interrupts. In gw2 there is no such thing.

So imagine what would happen. Everyone would focus a target that they know can’t get away and just burst them down in milliseconds. Thieves and mesmers would probably be the last classes standing due to stealth.

In gw1 there was supporting skills, so focusing a target while ignoring other enemies who buff and heal would be counter productive. Again in gw2, no such thing. Most fights would be cc spam and burst damage, followed by tons of complaints on how bad gw2 pvp is (which is true).

exactly. deathmatch would work in one of the 2 following situations:
small teams up to 3, or a team so large that reviving can be done nearly instantly and the death of 1 player doesn’t tip the scales too much. this is the “wuv-wuv limit”.

One of the main problems with removing the trinity (not going into how it sort of still exists) is the removal of various game types from your list of options.

downed state is why the nuke wouldnt be a valid strategy… if you focus your team at nuking, you can down 1 or 2 people… but the other team can have support players with their ress skills who ress those two in few seconds, or guardian with area denial skill allowing them to ress downed players, also some invulnerability could help focused player to survive long enough for his team to down someone and then finish+rally him… then your nuke team will become weaker because you used your main sources of dmg to the initial kills… also ranged control could become valid, instead of in conquest, where you are forced to hold point on the spot, not defend it from range (maybe except bigger group fights, which are not that often)

Leuca.5732:

One of the main problems with removing the trinity (not going into how it sort of still exists) is the removal of various game types from your list of options.

I feel the conquest mode is a subtle way to cover up real issues of gw2 pvp. Which is:

Over the top damage
No actual team work
No real way to support team mates

If you look at what conquest does, its a external means to limit damage and promote surrogate team work. We both want to win, so we “have to work together” to get a node. It limits damage by assuring that you won’t ever be trained by enemies too often, if it does happen it means they are giving up a node or two. Putting their win at risk.

With a deathmatch mode, I imagine most classes would be thieves. Because of stealth and backstab. Everyone would just stealth and try to land the first backstab and heartseekers to take out the other.

As others said, that’s what downed state is for. You can achieve an instant kill, but every class got some ways to escape a burst (distortion, stealth, teleport, Shelter, Renewed focus, Endure pain, “Protect me”, Death shroud, Elixir S, and of course the evades), but if you ‘die’, party members with good coordination can pick you up.

Don’t act like Invoke spike in GW1 wasn’t instant kill if played well. But we had res skills to pick up the fallen. Same happens here.

Deathmatch could work and works every day in a midfight.

And we don’t always need 10 minute long battles. Who cares if a deathmatch is 1-3 mins? I would enjoy. No need to pay attention for 3 cap points + 2 buffs AND the combat. This would be perfect for just doing PvP and having fun.

What’s the problem about fights lasting a couple of minutes?

In Guild Wars 1, unless you were facing a 2-monks team in RA, fight rarely lasted more than 2 minutes.

sorrow.2364:

What’s the problem about fights lasting a couple of minutes?

In Guild Wars 1, unless you were facing a 2-monks team in RA, fight rarely lasted more than 2 minutes.

I don’t recall any class in gw1 being able to two shot your HP in a matter of seconds.

downed state has been mentioned a few times already as a counter to insta-death and 60 second matches. i too thought that was the case, but it is easy to show why it doesn’t work. in a word, aoe. a tdm team would use over the top aoe damage to focus on a downed player to make ressing them impossible, or at least very painful. one way or another, people will die like flies, and there’s nothing downed state can do about it.

Aza.2105:

I don’t recall any class in gw1 being able to two shot your HP in a matter of seconds.

Two shot isn’t a wanted GW2 mechanic. After the proper tuning, it would not be possible anymore.

Anyway, some builds in GW1 were close to two-shot people. Hammer warrior, backbreaker assassins, some Elementalist spike builds… I can’t remember them all, but there were a lot of builds capable to kill in two seconds unaware players.

It will work. In fact there are zerg fights of big zergs in WvW where the zergs sometimes fight only because they need to fight – far away from some objective. That’s not much different from a deathmatch… only that there are tons of players instead of only a few… and you don’t win and then it’ sover. After your zerg wins you move elsewhere and the others need to respawn and lose time.

It would work perfectly for sPvP and be more interesting… cause this way you could have small group fights 5 vs. 5 for people that don’t like the zerg fights in WvW but still want to fight. At the moment it’s boring because of the conquest mode you need to split to more points so it often is 1 vs. more…

A deathmatch were all of each group fight at one place could be interesting here. Could help to train teamplay and fighting together with others against others which also would help in other situations.

I think deathmatch will work if the team size is somewhat small, like 3v3, and the maps have enough space to make AOE spam not hit everyone. Also add the odd column and ramp for LOS and elevation.

Oddly enough, fights tend to take ages actually.

Ever fought 2v2 battles over a node? They can take quite some time on equally skilled players or go over fast when one “team” is of higher skill-level.

I don’t see any issues when 1v1 duels can take up to 4mins a bigger fight can take as long, especially when people work together.

Also, it doesn’t matter if deathmatch “wont work” you don’t have to build a league around it if it turns out bad, but leaving it out without trying it is rather stupid, to put it nicely.

I think the main reason why they don’t want to implement it is because they don’t want to split up the small PvP community into 2 game modes.

Aza.2105:

sorrow.2364:

What’s the problem about fights lasting a couple of minutes?

In Guild Wars 1, unless you were facing a 2-monks team in RA, fight rarely lasted more than 2 minutes.

I don’t recall any class in gw1 being able to two shot your HP in a matter of seconds.

Can’t think of anything outside of a Warrior Kill-shot that actually one-two shots.
In terms of fast TTK? The Assassin at multiple periods of time could drop you in a second or two. Shoot what was that combo, Black Lotus strike, Horns of the ox, black spider strike, BoS/Death blossom/Twisting Fangs. Something like that. Throw in IAS such as Burst of Agression, flurry and bounce. Impale spikes…. Meh. Then again an ele only had to hit blinding Flash and he had to sit on his kitten until a monk came.

The low TTK is already a problem even with conquest.

DM will never work in guild wars 2 because of the way the classes are. Certain classes are simply just more efficient at killing than other classes. If they were to implement deathmatch, I doubt you will see a lot of elementlist working around because they will be free food for everyone else.

As of right now the classes are not terribly balance well. Certain classes have a huge advantage due to mechanics and what not. DM tends to favor a certain styles that other classes might not be too strong at.

The only way for deathmatch to exist would be for the current system of skills and traits and classes be redesigned from the ground up to make things relatively fair for every class and I don’t see Arenanet putting the time or effort into it and even still then I think deathmatch don’t belong in an MMO. DM works for shooters because classes don’t have a lot of things to worry about, you don’t have a lot of hp difference, skills and traits and one or 2 bullets in the head and you are dead. I don’t see a lot of MMORPG being too happy about dying in less than 3 seconds with 16k+ hp. The whole illusion of power in an MMORPG depends on BIG numbers, seeing 16k go down in 4-5 seconds in a game mode is different than getting zerged in WvW.

Luthan.5236:

It will work. In fact there are zerg fights of big zergs in WvW where the zergs sometimes fight only because they need to fight – far away from some objective. That’s not much different from a deathmatch… only that there are tons of players instead of only a few… and you don’t win and then it’ sover. After your zerg wins you move elsewhere and the others need to respawn and lose time.
.

Except that killing players isn’t the purpose of WvW. You don’t get points for killing players but breaking and taking locations. And you don’t neccessarily lose of getting out zerged or zerged. You just rez up and continue.

Deathmatch however is about killing other players, that is the purpose of it and so a lot of people will be complaining like always how this is unfair and this mode sucks, how certain classes have the advantage.

sorrow.2364:

Aza.2105:

I don’t recall any class in gw1 being able to two shot your HP in a matter of seconds.

Two shot isn’t a wanted GW2 mechanic. After the proper tuning, it would not be possible anymore.

Anyway, some builds in GW1 were close to two-shot people. Hammer warrior, backbreaker assassins, some Elementalist spike builds… I can’t remember them all, but there were a lot of builds capable to kill in two seconds unaware players.

I don’t remember any of them causing trouble. The only build I fondly remember is fragility mesmer. But they were easy to counter once you found out how they worked.

ensoriki.5789:

Aza.2105:

sorrow.2364:

What’s the problem about fights lasting a couple of minutes?

In Guild Wars 1, unless you were facing a 2-monks team in RA, fight rarely lasted more than 2 minutes.

I don’t recall any class in gw1 being able to two shot your HP in a matter of seconds.

Can’t think of anything outside of a Warrior Kill-shot that actually one-two shots.
In terms of fast TTK? The Assassin at multiple periods of time could drop you in a second or two. Shoot what was that combo, Black Lotus strike, Horns of the ox, black spider strike, BoS/Death blossom/Twisting Fangs. Something like that. Throw in IAS such as Burst of Agression, flurry and bounce. Impale spikes…. Meh. Then again an ele only had to hit blinding Flash and he had to sit on his kitten until a monk came.

Yea that is the thing about sins vs thief. You had to setup their attacks, if someone negates your lead attack or off hand attack, you couldn’t finish the dual attack. Meaning all of your damage was wasted. In gw2….you just press a button and boom tons of damage.

We dont need deathmatch per se but why cant killing be worth more and be a viable point scoring alternative to pure conquest. Rift and Warhammer had scenarios with capture points but you could win matches just by killing the other team over and over again. Those games probably leaned too heavily toward killing but why cant we have a nice balance between points mattering and kills mattering. 5 points for a kill woohboy! I would be happy with an increase to 10 or 15 points per kill A-net could crunch the numbers I have no idea how many kills there are in an average tournament game.

Aza.2105:

I don’t remember any of them causing trouble. The only build I fondly remember is fragility mesmer. But they were easy to counter once you found out how they worked.

Backbreaker assassins, actually, cause quite a lot of trouble. If they managed to land the backbreaker, you’re dead if the monk didn’t catched the spike.

Anyway, GW1 was very different and had its spike builds too. Saying that TDM can’t work on GW2 because of low TTK is not a good argument.

sorrow.2364:

Aza.2105:

I don’t remember any of them causing trouble. The only build I fondly remember is fragility mesmer. But they were easy to counter once you found out how they worked.

Backbreaker assassins, actually, cause quite a lot of trouble. If they managed to land the backbreaker, you’re dead if the monk didn’t catched the spike.

Anyway, GW1 was very different and had its spike builds too. Saying that TDM can’t work on GW2 because of low TTK is not a good argument.

TTK is not the argument. That is only part of the problem. It would be fine if the possibly existed to build a anti spike build. But gw2 doesn’t have much variety. Then we have cheesy mechanics such as clone spamming and stealth, none of which existed in gw2.

I can guarantee you, that thief and mesmer would be at the top of the QQ list if deathmatch mode actually made it to gw2. The only thing that prevents the complaining from reaching its peak is due to the fact that conquest doesn’t revolve around killing but capturing.

Its true that gw2 had semi spike builds, but you could always build against it. But there were NO skills in the game that literally took your hp from full to less than half. If a DM mode was to make it to gw2, then serious rebalancing would be needed.

PS

Backbreaker sins never bothered me, I remember rocking them. Only fragility stuck in my mind, because I didn’t know what wakittenting me when I first seen it. After I looked at the build it was easy to deal with.

Aza.2105:

sorrow.2364:

What’s the problem about fights lasting a couple of minutes?

In Guild Wars 1, unless you were facing a 2-monks team in RA, fight rarely lasted more than 2 minutes.

I don’t recall any class in gw1 being able to two shot your HP in a matter of seconds.

I present you the AoB/AoG dervishes, and the Invoke/Starburst elementalists.

We did some fun-deathmatches in a CA with 2v2 3v3 and 4v4. All r40-50.

If you don’t think it’s working, gather some friends and test it.

If deathmatch doesn’t work, then why is hotjoin still the most played in the Mist? That is not conquest at all. It’s simply deathmatch, with some distractions on the map that people call capture points.

Aza.2105:

TTK is not the argument. That is only part of the problem. It would be fine if the possibly existed to build a anti spike build. But gw2 doesn’t have much variety. Then we have cheesy mechanics such as clone spamming and stealth, none of which existed in gw2.

I can guarantee you, that thief and mesmer would be at the top of the QQ list if deathmatch mode actually made it to gw2. The only thing that prevents the complaining from reaching its peak is due to the fact that conquest doesn’t revolve around killing but capturing.

Its true that gw2 had semi spike builds, but you could always build against it. But there were NO skills in the game that literally took your hp from full to less than half. If a DM mode was to make it to gw2, then serious rebalancing would be needed.

PS

Backbreaker sins never bothered me, I remember rocking them. Only fragility stuck in my mind, because I didn’t know what wakittenting me when I first seen it. After I looked at the build it was easy to deal with.

That’s a problem of Mesmer and Thieves being too strong (not sure about thief damage, tbh). Their damage is high regardless of the mode they play in and a deathmatch wouldn’t stress it more as it would unstress the AoE abundance (since in TDM you’re not forced to sit in a circle).

About backbreaker, they really took your life from 500 to 0, obviously if they didn’t mess up with the combo. The only chance you had is monk catching the spike.
Fragility spike was another piece of instagib.
If you dig deeper, you’ll find that GW1 had their insta-kill builds too, obviously nerfed right after they rose.

Who said it wouldn’t? oh wait, devs did. Why? Cuz it takes time to build and their gem store/LS is way more important.

sorrow.2364:

About backbreaker, they really took your life from 500 to 0, obviously if they didn’t mess up with the combo. The only chance you had is monk catching the spike.
Fragility spike was another piece of instagib.
If you dig deeper, you’ll find that GW1 had their insta-kill builds too, obviously nerfed right after they rose.

the very important part here is, these spikes were all team spikes. it was trivial to heal through a single bb sin combo. the combo effectively locked a person down, but all you needed was a guardian (that was a common monk enchantment) and you could counterattack. that is the ocean that separates gw1 tdm from gw2, you needed to coordinate a spike with multiple people to create an effective burst that could overwhelm a healer. now we just have single players that have all of that burst with no one to prot vs them.

Deathmatch would work, and it would bring old players who quit back. I know many who quit because of conquest. I think that 3v3, one life per person no respawning would be best for dm in spvp. Think arena from WoW, only a much better combat system. Sadly we have very little chance at getting a new game mode because of people like the op who are conquest nerds. If you dont like deathmatch you can stick to conquest. let us at least have some fun in this game before everyone else quits.

piffdaddy.8014:

Deathmatch would work, and it would bring old players who quit back. I know many who quit because of conquest. I think that 3v3, one life per person no respawning would be best for dm in spvp. Think arena from WoW, only a much better combat system. Sadly we have very little chance at getting a new game mode because of people like the op who are conquest nerds. If you dont like deathmatch you can stick to conquest. let us at least have some fun in this game before everyone else quits.

Are you suggesting that I enjoy conquest mode?

who cares is you think it wont work. Guilds are actively doing GvG’s (deathmaches) and are having a blast!
let the Devs implement it and let the overall community decide.

I’m all for deathmatch being in the game as a ‘fun’ mode, but it won’t work as a competitive mode.

It just doesn’t compare without the intricacies of having healers. The game in it’s current form is just too quick, which is why there needs to be objectives. The game wouldn’t even compare to WoW arenas, which got bad a long time ago.

Brando.1374:

who cares is you think it wont work. Guilds are actively doing GvG’s (deathmaches) and are having a blast!
let the Devs implement it and let the overall community decide.

If you have been on forums long enough once something becomes OFFICIAL it cannot have any significant problems. IF it does then people start complaining that it is the worst thing ever and it doesn’t benefit Arenanet in any manner. Similar to indie games vs big publisher games, gamers are more likely to tolerant indie games flaws but not necessarily the same thing EA, ubisoft or activision. Other issues start becoming EXTREMELY apparent, their no so great individual class balance etc.

They should offer ways to support GvG (large scale) or deathmatch indirectly but not necessarily put their seal of approval. Unless, they are willing to go down the path.

tl;dr
Player made DM in custom arena works because it is not official. If arenanet was to make a half baked DM it will cause a lot of QQ on the forums possibly far MORE than the leaderboard debacle. DM exposes a lot of the issues with the professions and I don’t think arenanet wants to open that door. Honest significant changes are made to the classes or the mechanics.

People seem to forget about games like TF2 where you can literally one shot people.
Just because some classes are better at dealing damage, doesn’t mean that people will only pick those classes.

Also, look at Call of Duty and how there’s no healer in those games and the TTK is near instant alot of times.

People seem to think that these other formats wont work because of the way the game is designed and balanced, but I think that one way or another people will find the most efficient means of dealing with the different situations.

It’s not just Skills and Traits that need to be balances, but maps and game parameters as well. Think the matches will be over too soon? What about increasing the score limit or creating points of interest or conflict in a map? What about adaptive spawn points(again CoD) instead of static? There’s plenty of ideas that other games use that could work well.

I think people are trying too hard to give Anet credit for limiting the PvP to ONE mode. Anet needs to abandon this whole “no holy trinity” stance that causes them to adamantly squash support roles.

I think that this game could use more coordination/support roles and some new freaking game modes.

Angriff.1935:

People seem to forget about games like TF2 where you can literally one shot people.
Just because some classes are better at dealing damage, doesn’t mean that people will only pick those classes.

Also, look at Call of Duty and how there’s no healer in those games and the TTK is near instant alot of times.

People seem to think that these other formats wont work because of the way the game is designed and balanced, but I think that one way or another people will find the most efficient means of dealing with the different situations.

It’s not just Skills and Traits that need to be balances, but maps and game parameters as well. Think the matches will be over too soon? What about increasing the score limit or creating points of interest or conflict in a map? What about adaptive spawn points(again CoD) instead of static? There’s plenty of ideas that other games use that could work well.

I think people are trying too hard to give Anet credit for limiting the PvP to ONE mode. Anet needs to abandon this whole “no holy trinity” stance that causes them to adamantly squash support roles.

I think that this game could use more coordination/support roles and some new freaking game modes.

In gw1 there were three type of death matches in ra/ta.

Normal DM: Winner is the team with the last man standing

Point DM: A deathmatch where there is a respawn that happens in intervals, who ever has the most points at the end wins.

Kill the lord: Similar to legacy of foefire, but not with nodes. When you die your lord respawns you, so the objective of the map was to kill the enemy lord and them to prevent them from respawning.

I don’t feel any of those maps would work well with how gw2 currently plays. As much as I hate conquest. It just wouldn’t work well without the forum being flooded with numerous balance complaints.

Deathmatch would work brilliantly as put aoe wouldnt be such a problem since your not having to stand guard on a certain circle could be easily avoided with some pillars etc. could be a problem say with thiefs bursty builds but if the health pools were slightly increased it would solve that issue easily also there are plenty of chances to revive get players back up, seen this in action from a couple of twitch streamers worked great so much composition for different types of builds. could also help anet help balance the game around more structered small scale pvp zoning! maps would be small simple would be a great addition to the game and with some work could be bought in as an e sport mode ! just my opinion

Why not just add death match as a test thingy, just make a simple round map with a couple of obstacles(like nagrand arena from wow, arena in smite smite etc) with X amount of lives/points to reach? It doesn’t even have to be very pretty designed, that you can do later.
Just make it a non “competitive mode” with no rankings, and state in the description that it’s not ranked etc(with very obvious text so people can actully see it…).
ARAMs in smite/lol don’t really work either for competitive play and are unbalanced as it can get sometimes but still people love to play it, cause it’s just fighting and kinda braindead i suppose?

Just add it as a test mode for a couple of weeks and see if people like it? If it’s not recived well(low player count) just scrap it.
You could even just give us a couple of hotjoin servers/custom servers with disabled capture points if you feel extremly laazy(tho i’d prefer a way to just queue up for it)

Don’t think arenanet should underestimate the joy people can get from just mindlessly killing stuff over and over again even if it’s not very balanced.

TDM can work we just need the skills, traits, and maps to be able to.

Right after smallest scale animations are normalized and are better telegraphed to react to with a much needed rework of trait passiveness and quite possibly more weapon skills operating as multiple actions like the #1 skill does in order to provide a less spam based approach and a potentially more coordinated approach. Get rid of auto attack entirely and remake weapon skill #1 into more than just filler.

Angriff.1935:

People seem to forget about games like TF2 where you can literally one shot people.
Just because some classes are better at dealing damage, doesn’t mean that people will only pick those classes.

Also, look at Call of Duty and how there’s no healer in those games and the TTK is near instant alot of times.

People seem to think that these other formats wont work because of the way the game is designed and balanced, but I think that one way or another people will find the most efficient means of dealing with the different situations.

It’s not just Skills and Traits that need to be balances, but maps and game parameters as well. Think the matches will be over too soon? What about increasing the score limit or creating points of interest or conflict in a map? What about adaptive spawn points(again CoD) instead of static? There’s plenty of ideas that other games use that could work well.

I think people are trying too hard to give Anet credit for limiting the PvP to ONE mode. Anet needs to abandon this whole “no holy trinity” stance that causes them to adamantly squash support roles.

I think that this game could use more coordination/support roles and some new freaking game modes.

You can’t compare an fps to an mmo like this. It’s so much more skillful to “one shot” someone in an fps compared to an mmo. You hardly have to aim in this game, your field of view is gigantic, you can track people through walls, you can instantly teleport through line of site, up z-axis, stealth, etc. the ability to one shot should not exist in a gam like this. There’s so much more to an fps than just aiming well for a headshot, but most people don’t understand this.

Also, good fps games might have deathmatch, but it’s not nearly as good compared to objectives when played competitively. That’s just a fact, straight up.

But yeah, in a more casual/fun sense deathmatch and any other game mode can only benefit the game.

Aza.2105:

So imagine what would happen. Everyone would focus a target that they know can’t get away and just burst them down in milliseconds. Thieves and mesmers would probably be the last classes standing due to stealth.

In gw1 there was supporting skills, so focusing a target while ignoring other enemies who buff and heal would be counter productive. Again in gw2, no such thing. Most fights would be cc spam and burst damage, followed by tons of complaints on how bad gw2 pvp is (which is true).

Your mind is stuck in a tunnel. You’re viewing death match from a conquest perspective. Players don’t run the same thing for death match and conquest. There’s a completely different objective in DM- kill players and score points(maybe secondary objectives/small buffs) as opposed to CQ where you’re always racing the clock and nodes. Smaller fights would probably be added(3v3 or maybe 4v4) and different style maps would be added. That’s not to say that everything would be perfect but don’t look at it as “if we change this then that will happen” because the meta changes with the circumstance, not the other way around.

If you’re thinking an 8v8 hotjoin DM is bad then just look at 8v8 conquest. It’s already a mess and becomes deathmatch a lot of times. People still play it and enjoy themselves.

saying it “wont work” is seeing things in black and white. it could be fun for some or for many, people have different tastes and anet should try to cater to all of them by giving us more options instead of forcefeeding us the same boring conquest mode.

i mean i like pizza but cant eat it every day. give us the option for death match, ctf, no downed, no nodes, no cannons, race locking, rank requirements, spec/class blocking, friendly fire, etc. just give us some variety, not everyone likes the same thing. just make it known that classes will not be balanced around these custom game modes.

it doesnt seem like it would be that difficult from a developing standpoint but i have no idea how that stuff works and it seems even the smallest changes require heavy resources

Aza.2105:

sorrow.2364:

Aza.2105:

I don’t recall any class in gw1 being able to two shot your HP in a matter of seconds.

Two shot isn’t a wanted GW2 mechanic. After the proper tuning, it would not be possible anymore.

Anyway, some builds in GW1 were close to two-shot people. Hammer warrior, backbreaker assassins, some Elementalist spike builds… I can’t remember them all, but there were a lot of builds capable to kill in two seconds unaware players.

I don’t remember any of them causing trouble. The only build I fondly remember is fragility mesmer. But they were easy to counter once you found out how they worked.

It was actually illusion of weakness & grenths balance mesmer that could do it, but it wasn’t practical. You needed around 200 health to pull it off :P

Actually, you are 100% correct. It won’t work. At least not if implemented and absolutely no balancing is done.

Reality however, it is completely plausible, there just needs to be a lot of re-balancing done. Namely, a good size buff to damage mitigation abilities. This would coincide with a midline of sorts. An improvement to healing skills, doesn’t need to be that significant honestly so long mitigation is good enough (IMO – mitigation is just proactive healing anyways.) A reduction in passive damage with a movement to an active play style.

The beauty in GW1 was that skills had to work TOGETHER across professions to accomplish the task intended. It was never as easy as say kill someone with 1 warrior. It was a job to wear them down before killing them. Likewise, tasks need to be spread across professions.

Also it doesn’t need to be that guardians are the only mitigators, it should be that guardians CAN be mitigators, but so can anyone else…. So you don’t need a concrete trinity in that hey, you have a monk and a mesmer. But I do believe you need to have a better identity for roles. That seems to be lost here in this game. Honestly, it’s fine to have a healer who identifies himself as a healer. It would be nice to swap that to proactive healing (IE mitigation) and allow pretty much any profession the ability to mitigate.

People do death match in WvW there is a community building around it its fun and has its own meta.

10 v10 15v15

and the zergy 20 v 20 +

http://gw2gvg.com/leaderboard.php?r=na

Ton of 5v5s and lower happen almost everynight.

Xom.9264:

People do death match in WvW there is a community building around it its fun and has its own meta.

10 v10 15v15

and the zergy 20 v 20 +

http://gw2gvg.com/leaderboard.php?r=na

Ton of 5v5s and lower happen almost everynight.

“we tried and it didn’t work” when its in their game but without maps build for it LOL anet

Most of you have your head stuck in MMO deathmatch. There can still be objectives in deathmatch. Think Halo, objectives galore in the form of power-ups and weapon spawns. I think as long as there are objectives most game modes can work in gw2.

Without objectives people just kinda run around the map like headless chickens and there would be a lot of stand offs because nobody would want to initiate the fight.

Just look at counter strike, it’s mostly just a deathmatch but the objective is needed so teams have a reason to engage each other.

I’m personally not a huge fan of locking people into a small circle room and just having them fight to the death and also don’t think it will work with a lot of the mechanics in this game.

Phantaram.1265:

Most of you have your head stuck in MMO deathmatch. There can still be objectives in deathmatch. Think Halo, objectives galore in the form of power-ups and weapon spawns. I think as long as there are objectives most game modes can work in gw2.

Without objectives people just kinda run around the map like headless chickens and there would be a lot of stand offs because nobody would want to initiate the fight.

Just look at counter strike, it’s mostly just a deathmatch but the objective is needed so teams have a reason to engage each other.

I’m personally not a huge fan of locking people into a small circle room and just having them fight to the death and also don’t think it will work with a lot of the mechanics in this game.

that’s pretty much what this entire thread is about: deathmatch. kill enemy team to win. and by your own admission, (and the opinion of myself and some others in this thread) it wouldn’t work. so next up is a deathmatch with respawns and some kind of objective. but what kind of objective? you can’t have any npc involved such as guild lord or ghostly hero from gw1, because there’s no way to protect him. so that’s out as well. capture the flag? imagine a 5v5 where everyone is clustered around 1 guy trying to run the flag and the enemy team nukes him from orbit. it would be very difficult to get a flag through since you can’t protect your flag runner. what other kinds of objectives are there that can’t be countered with extreme damage and cc? i’m sure there are a few game modes, but they are not team deathmatch. conquest splits a team so there is not an ungodly amount of dmg in 1 spot for long. there is an absurd amount of fast damage in this game and it severely limits the viable game modes. i’m all for a fun deathmatch mode where max team size is 3, but that is not likely what anet wants.

Phantaram.1265:

Most of you have your head stuck in MMO deathmatch. There can still be objectives in deathmatch. Think Halo, objectives galore in the form of power-ups and weapon spawns. I think as long as there are objectives most game modes can work in gw2.

Yeh, thats prettu much what i said months ago… I also tried to give some suggestions about a possible deathmatch mode: “Battle for the gods” or “Divinities arena” stuff like that, where ….

; myself:

[…] different architectural levels and different locations that can be seen from the main location, so that a team can check where the other team is going; and in each of these locations there is a buff that will require a time to commune with it, then it will give some advantages to that team or disadvantages to the other team. […]
those buffs spawn should be planned to give a chance to each team once a buff is taken. For example: after 30s spawns Balthazar strength, Team A wins the teamfight and commune with it (a voice annouce it), then both Kormir and Melandru spawns so that Team B must choose if to take Kormir buffs to counter balthazar effects […]
This way lots of teamfights will happen, granting bonus to the winning team, but at the same time providing a choise to the defeated one.
The map should be designed like a ring with circular rooms (sort of altars of the gods) for each buff, and each room connected to a central one so that a team can decide to take the faster way…. but they might incur in the other team doing the same.

I miss RA, HA and GvG from GW1 and I miss playing healer. GW2 pvp is atrocious in comparison.

Phantaram.1265:

Most of you have your head stuck in MMO deathmatch. There can still be objectives in deathmatch. Think Halo, objectives galore in the form of power-ups and weapon spawns. I think as long as there are objectives most game modes can work in gw2.

Without objectives people just kinda run around the map like headless chickens and there would be a lot of stand offs because nobody would want to initiate the fight.

Just look at counter strike, it’s mostly just a deathmatch but the objective is needed so teams have a reason to engage each other.

I’m personally not a huge fan of locking people into a small circle room and just having them fight to the death and also don’t think it will work with a lot of the mechanics in this game.

They make the 2 teams spawn in 2 lines in front of each other when the match starts. Problem solved.

This is an MMO, I personally would like it if they would finally treat it like that.

Half the tournaments I SoloQ have people who are new to PvP playing team deathmatch anyway. The way I see it, it’s already here.