Guild Wars 2

The pull wasnt too fast. If you had a finger on stun breaker , if you reaction time was avarage ( 0.2-0.3 ) you had more than time to break stun from a shatter .

If it was too fast for you, your reaction time was > 0.2 sec, meaning your reaction time is above human avarage. ( meaning its not a OP problem from the skill, but lack of hability to break stun fast enough ).

now 1 sec you destroyed the focus pull and made other wep sets better for off hand mesmer.

Presumably you reference Into the Void.

You ignore latency sir. That is why the pull got nerfed, and justly so.

Focus will still see heavy use. The utility is simply too good to not use in some builds.

Don’t be a drama queen.

I always forget how all PROs in this game play or mesmer or thief….( roll eyes…)

35 degrees celsius today here lads. Hot. Humid. I think I’ll cooldown with some mesmer tears. Thank you for thus thread.

Masternewbz.4953:

The pull wasnt too fast. If you had a finger on stun breaker , if you reaction time was avarage ( 0.2-0.3 ) you had more than time to break stun from a shatter .

If it was too fast for you, your reaction time was > 0.2 sec, meaning your reaction time is above human avarage. ( meaning its not a OP problem from the skill, but lack of hability to break stun fast enough ).

now 1 sec you destroyed the focus pull and made other wep sets better for off hand mesmer.

Hahaha, this is a good one. Please stop spreading misinformation. Google Scholar some actual research studies on reaction time before you say something like this. Human reaction times for simple tasks like pressing a button when a white dot pops up on a black screen can be as low as 0.2s in healthy young adults that are hyper vigilant, but as soon as you get into any complex actions (like playing a game), reaction times go to 0.6-1.5 seconds.

Kharr.5746:

Masternewbz.4953:

The pull wasnt too fast. If you had a finger on stun breaker , if you reaction time was avarage ( 0.2-0.3 ) you had more than time to break stun from a shatter .

If it was too fast for you, your reaction time was > 0.2 sec, meaning your reaction time is above human avarage. ( meaning its not a OP problem from the skill, but lack of hability to break stun fast enough ).

now 1 sec you destroyed the focus pull and made other wep sets better for off hand mesmer.

Hahaha, this is a good one. Please stop spreading misinformation. Google Scholar some actual research studies on reaction time before you say something like this. Human reaction times for simple tasks like pressing a button when a white dot pops up on a black screen can be as low as 0.2s in healthy young adults that are hyper vigilant, but as soon as you get into any complex actions (like playing a game), reaction times go to 0.6-1.5 seconds.

Reacting fast should be always needed in a game, it distinguishes good from bad players.

Reacting fast is required on most e-sports/sports. Making it easier for people to react to stuff makes only the game ’ s skill cap lower.

I dont aprove of the nerf of overall burst dmg ( warriors , thieves , 100 nade engi ) . This makes gameplay slower, and newbie friendly.

Cond was alredy heavy on old patch, now its even stronger.

Good luck having ppl watch cond wars 2. its boring as hell , and the spetacular plays done with 100b , 100 nades and the pull wich was so nice to watch are being taken.

Overall its bad for the showmanship and for a game who wants to be e-sport.

Also, lighting Burst on ELE and Condi transfer is faster than pull .

You can at least react to the pull,

Condi transfer and the Ele lighting burst on scepter is untelegraphed and instant. Also corrupt boon is INSTANT. So please now add animation to these skills cause its too fast.

To land a multiple shatter actually requires skill.

Masternewbz.4953:

Kharr.5746:

Masternewbz.4953:

The pull wasnt too fast. If you had a finger on stun breaker , if you reaction time was avarage ( 0.2-0.3 ) you had more than time to break stun from a shatter .

If it was too fast for you, your reaction time was > 0.2 sec, meaning your reaction time is above human avarage. ( meaning its not a OP problem from the skill, but lack of hability to break stun fast enough ).

now 1 sec you destroyed the focus pull and made other wep sets better for off hand mesmer.

Hahaha, this is a good one. Please stop spreading misinformation. Google Scholar some actual research studies on reaction time before you say something like this. Human reaction times for simple tasks like pressing a button when a white dot pops up on a black screen can be as low as 0.2s in healthy young adults that are hyper vigilant, but as soon as you get into any complex actions (like playing a game), reaction times go to 0.6-1.5 seconds.

Reacting fast should be always needed in a game, it distinguishes good from bad players.

Reacting fast is required on most e-sports/sports. Making it easier for people to react to stuff makes only the game ’ s skill cap lower.

I dont aprove of the nerf of overall burst dmg ( warriors , thieves , 100 nade engi ) . This makes gameplay slower, and newbie friendly.

Cond was alredy heavy on old patch, now its even stronger.

Good luck having ppl watch cond wars 2. its boring as hell , and the spetacular plays done with 100b , 100 nades and the pull wich was so nice to watch are being taken.

Overall its bad for the showmanship and for a game who wants to be e-sport.

Go play a fighting game competitively for 2-3 years. Grow a good reaction. Come back, and see if you can avoid a pull. These are things that can only be avoided when you are expecting them. Much like any standard 50/50 mixup in a fighting game.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Masternewbz.4953:

Kharr.5746:

Masternewbz.4953:

The pull wasnt too fast. If you had a finger on stun breaker , if you reaction time was avarage ( 0.2-0.3 ) you had more than time to break stun from a shatter .

If it was too fast for you, your reaction time was > 0.2 sec, meaning your reaction time is above human avarage. ( meaning its not a OP problem from the skill, but lack of hability to break stun fast enough ).

now 1 sec you destroyed the focus pull and made other wep sets better for off hand mesmer.

Hahaha, this is a good one. Please stop spreading misinformation. Google Scholar some actual research studies on reaction time before you say something like this. Human reaction times for simple tasks like pressing a button when a white dot pops up on a black screen can be as low as 0.2s in healthy young adults that are hyper vigilant, but as soon as you get into any complex actions (like playing a game), reaction times go to 0.6-1.5 seconds.

Reacting fast should be always needed in a game, it distinguishes good from bad players.

Reacting fast is required on most e-sports/sports. Making it easier for people to react to stuff makes only the game ’ s skill cap lower.

I dont aprove of the nerf of overall burst dmg ( warriors , thieves , 100 nade engi ) . This makes gameplay slower, and newbie friendly.

Cond was alredy heavy on old patch, now its even stronger.

Good luck having ppl watch cond wars 2. its boring as hell , and the spetacular plays done with 100b , 100 nades and the pull wich was so nice to watch are being taken.

Overall its bad for the showmanship and for a game who wants to be e-sport.

Go play a fighting game competitively for 2-3 years. Grow a good reaction. Come back, and see if you can avoid a pull. These are things that can only be avoided when you are expecting them. Much like any standard 50/50 mixup in a fighting game.

is the pull hard to dodge?

what about instant skills like S/D ele burst wich is instant and Corrupt boon that has no Animation?

If your nerfing a skill under this principle, you should nerf all that are in the same category.

By S./D burst, you means Buring Grasp… lol, really?? They have casting time dude, not instant…Learn the game a bit more bf putting down any statement as if it is a fact. Even so, gosh, Burning Grasp got a HORRIBLE hit box….

Stealth.9324:

By S./D burst, you means Buring Grasp… lol, really?? They have casting time dude, not instant…Learn the game a bit more bf putting down any statement as if it is a fact. Even so, gosh, Burning Grasp got a HORRIBLE hit box….

Lol…. The s/d burst is the lighting attunement + arcane skills. It actually takes u down 50% of HP vs a glass, same of a shatter…

An into the void pull + full duration from Iwarden + 4 clone shatter (with IP) and a blurred frenzy has the potential to chop off 80%-90% of a non GC character’s hp with some crits in it. I know because I have a mesmer and have done this.

Even popping a stun breaker wont let you evade the whole combo since you are being pulled and not just stunned/knockdown. Only stunbreakers with movement like mesmer staff 2, ele LF (which doesnt stun break anymore) and blink would work.

This fact along with the huge range of the pull + invisibility of the wall warranted a small delay for the skill. It is still possible to perform the combo, just needs a little more thought and not mindlessly blowing it off cd

The mesmer can still delay his pull and force players to prediction-dodge for nothing.
Done

^

become unpredictable.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The mesmer can still delay his pull and force players to prediction-dodge for nothing.
Done

im not talking about 1v1 dood.. team fights

Masternewbz.4953:

Stealth.9324:

By S./D burst, you means Buring Grasp… lol, really?? They have casting time dude, not instant…Learn the game a bit more bf putting down any statement as if it is a fact. Even so, gosh, Burning Grasp got a HORRIBLE hit box….

Lol…. The s/d burst is the lighting attunement + arcane skills. It actually takes u down 50% of HP vs a glass, same of a shatter…

First, this combo is only works vs Glass as you said. Second, the Eles need to be Glass himself to deal that much dams. Third, it requires Switch to Air, Electric Discharge, Auto Attack Air 1, Air 2, Arcane Blast and Arcane Wave. Fourth, to pull this one out you need to be Melee Range. So let say, to pull this off requires a lot of Set Up to do the Burst. Note that, while we doing all of this, Opp still free to move, so for a skill player dodging this combo a piece of cake. Why? Because Arcane Wave is our main Dams for this burst, and simply can be dodged by…dodge. Now let say to pull this one off, we have to sacrifice 2 offensive Ultilities which will in turn reduced our Survivability A LOT,plus 1 Weapon skill to be put on CD, not to mention being Glass ourselves. All of this can only acquired every 30s (Arcane Wave is a must and it is 30s CD)..And only taking down 50% HP even if you are Glass.

Now back to your Mesmer, with your combo, all you need to do is Dodge Dodge (2 clone),S#3 (Cripple), Lay down the curtain (u don’t even need to position yourself), Pull (Op knock down), S#3 (Immobilized), S#2, then Shatter. Not just it deals more dams than our Eles Burst Combo plus you put Conditions on top of all that, so even op tried to heal or doing anything after that, he will take dams from Confusion. All your skills has much shorter CD ( Temporal Curtain 25s CD), sure you may say it makes no different with 5s different but your combo is so easy to pull off at anytime given as long as you have S2/S3/Shatter button up. Temporal Curtain is a bonus but not a must. A Zerker Eles will die if it full Shatter on the face. On top of everything else, you still have all your Break Stun Ultilies available for dire situation.

See that different? S/D Eles, once u fail the burst, you are dead and can only pull off once every 30s, no Conditions Dams is put to pressure further more. One you can pull out more frequently and you still have your escape mechanism available for escape.

Now tell me which one is better?

P/S: Your also is an Instant Combo as well if by your definition, it requires no casting time skill.

Edit: Since you talk about Teamfight, our Eles Burst combo is only for 1 (except Wave is AOE) vs your Mesmer Burst Combo which is AOE (Curtain-AOE,BF-AOE, Shatter-AOE)

Masternewbz.4953:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The mesmer can still delay his pull and force players to prediction-dodge for nothing.
Done

im not talking about 1v1 dood.. team fights

So you want to be able to pull entire teams without anyone being able to dodge?

I’m confused. Again, how does being unpredictable NOT help in team fights?

Chesire.9043:

Masternewbz.4953:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The mesmer can still delay his pull and force players to prediction-dodge for nothing.
Done

im not talking about 1v1 dood.. team fights

So you want to be able to pull entire teams without anyone being able to dodge?

I’m confused. Again, how does being unpredictable NOT help in team fights?

u know how hard is to pull 4 ppl? and u know how easily u can avoid the pull?

it didnt need a nerf, it needed l2p . U cast stab, aegis for every1 = over. lol..

Now avoiding S/d burst is way harder.

and yet S/D burst doesn’t deal a fruckload of aoe damage like a shatter combo after pulling 4 people does. I doesn’t even deal the same damage as a blurred frenzy+shatter combo.

Masternewbz.4953:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The mesmer can still delay his pull and force players to prediction-dodge for nothing.
Done

im not talking about 1v1 dood.. team fights

But you know that in a teamfight so many things happen and have to be called stratwise that most pulls won’t be seen by everbody. So your chance to pull at least 2 players is pretty good. Overall it’s still one of the strongest cc’s ingame, so there is no need to complain about it.

Masternewbz.4953:

Chesire.9043:

Masternewbz.4953:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The mesmer can still delay his pull and force players to prediction-dodge for nothing.
Done

im not talking about 1v1 dood.. team fights

So you want to be able to pull entire teams without anyone being able to dodge?

I’m confused. Again, how does being unpredictable NOT help in team fights?

u know how hard is to pull 4 ppl? and u know how easily u can avoid the pull?

it didnt need a nerf, it needed l2p . U cast stab, aegis for every1 = over. lol..

Now avoiding S/d burst is way harder.

Oh cool, now this is l2p issue here. Like Fighter said, in team fight, (since u mention it), it is way harder to predict the Curtain because you can simply put down the Curtain near us (NOT DIRECTLY NEXT TO US), then pull. After all,Curtain is a Mid-range skill. Now let assume you see it, how you gonna dodge it as soon as it being laid down (not even freaking 1s until you realize you are being pulled, like mili-second). It is just like we tell us to doge our Electric Discharge as soon as you see us on Air Attunment, you know it is impossible right?

ellen loves his pull..

Masternewbz.4953:

Making it easier for people to react to stuff makes only the game ’ s skill cap lower.

Well, making it easier for people to react to stuff and buff damage/X duration from it will only make this game’s skill cap higher. For now 90% of players are using dodge just in hope they’ll dodge something serious or to proc some effects at the end of the dodge (guard/ele). Delaying cast times or/and making animations more visible and different for each cast (no chance as long as asuras are still in the game and there is no option to change all models in pvp to human male for example) will make this game much more competitive.
Now we only have op who thinks that this pull was designed to be instant cc ability and didn’t even think that it is possible to place wall and delay pull, what a shame.
Hey op, are you using asura mesmer?

Masternewbz.4953:

u know how hard is to pull 4 ppl?

I lol’d. Hard to pull 4 ppl, he said. It should be easy, he said.

Masternewbz.4953:

u know how hard is to pull 4 ppl? and u know how easily u can avoid the pull?

it didnt need a nerf, it needed l2p . U cast stab, aegis for every1 = over. lol..

Now avoiding S/d burst is way harder.

I have played both an ele and a mesmer in spvp and tpvp and let me tell you this. S/d burst (with a GC spec) will do as much as a iwarden+blurred+mind wrack combo.

In your case, you just need to be GC but in the eles case he has to be GC and give up most if not all defensive utilities and will be a sitting duck after this combo.

A GC ele without defensive utility skills is the weakest thing in this whole game. (except for maybe a GC thief who DOESNT use stealth).

If you find eles so powerful, make a GC ele and test it in spvp hotjoins. You will get destroyed so hard, that you will retract your complete post.

Masternewbz.4953:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The mesmer can still delay his pull and force players to prediction-dodge for nothing.
Done

im not talking about 1v1 dood.. team fights

Also during temfights you’re not going to blow your combo straight on sight…good mesmers usually delay pull/leap or whatever to make opponents waste dodges/evades/invuln and then shatter at the right time…always fun to leap to an ele, follow him until his mistform ends and then blow everything while he’s sitting duck (But yeah only bad eles go mistform @ the first mesmer leaping at them) this is what is actually meant for “skills” …everyone can push a sequence of keys, not everyone can do it at the right time..

Anyway i play s/p – staff so i don’t give a kitten bout void nerf xD

Demon.5082:

A GC ele without defensive utility skills is the weakest thing in this whole game. (except for maybe a GC thief who DOESNT use stealth).

If you’re going gc without defensive utilities and stunbreaks you’re basically asking for being bursted down by pretty much every gc on the other team passing by…no matter which class are you playing..

Archaon.6245:

Demon.5082:

A GC ele without defensive utility skills is the weakest thing in this whole game. (except for maybe a GC thief who DOESNT use stealth).

If you’re going gc without defensive utilities and stunbreaks you’re basically asking for being bursted down by pretty much every gc on the other team passing by…no matter which class are you playing..

While it may hold true with other GC because they don’t have to give up their Ults to Burst, while Eles, to be equal on Dams on Burst with other, they HAVE TO give up at least 1 slot of their Ults.

I’ll give my 2 cents about this. First, I also have a Valkyrie burst S/D ele. I have not practiced with the new traits around yet but due to Fresh Air, I feel like you don’t need to take offensive utilities. IMO, you can still do with cantrips. However, I do agree that is very glassy and that you really don’t have a lot of room for error.

On my mesmer, I also go almost full GC, save from some toughness equips, but I can survive better due to stealth, teleports and clones. Not saying that mesmers are OP or imbalanced, but eles are squishier if built the same. Though, they have more sustained damage now due to Fresh Air.

On topic now: into the void. I always felt this skill was very strong but not OP due to the randomness of the pull. You couldn’t exactly tell where your target would be, making the iLeap miss sometimes. While I understand the nerf, the 1s is a bit too long IMO. In combat it’s okay, but right now, I can’t pull people anymore who run away. Focus used to be the only real thing a mesmer had to catch up to people together with Blink. Now because of the delay, the person is usually out of reach, so you can never get the guy anymore. That’s the major problem for me.

Oh and Archaon: the cool thing about mesmer’s utilities is that they are stun breakers, thus defensive but can also used for offense. Mirror Images to shatter, blink to close gaps or confuse, blink to stealth attack. The equivalent for an ele would be to have stun breaks on arcane skills.

Other pulls in the game:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Grasp Slow projectile speed, 3/4 cast, very easy to dodge

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnet Longer cast, decent pull speed, easy to see it coming.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Scars 1/2 cast, easy to dodge projectile pull.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scorpion_Wire 1/2 cast, slightly harder to dodge projectile pull.

Doing a successful pull takes positioning and skill for other classes since they’re easy to avoid projectiles that don’t work well on uneven terrain. Into the Void is an area pull with no dodgeable projectile. Anyone supporting such a powerful pull having no activation time must support all of the single-target pulls becoming instant, right?

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if a mesmer blinked away and was instantly pulled back by Scorpion Wire/Spectral Grasp/Magnet/Path of Scars? I could see the QQ now.

Masternewbz.4953:

Also corrupt boon is INSTANT.

No, but your tears are tasty.

You should Always factor in how much skill you need to do the actions vs how hard is to avoid it:

A S/d light burst with double arcane. How easy is to do it? Very easy… How hard is to dodge it? Its instant and you have to PREDICT it, you dont have reaction time, you must predict it.

A pull for a big shatter on 2-3 ppl? How easy is to do it? Avarage to Hard ( and in 1500TPVP games + Including tournies I played as the Curse and the mist league, I havent gotten pulled more than twice into a multiple shatter , thats how hard its to do it ). How hard is to dodge it? Its very doable, u have at least 0.5 sec to break stun and dodge roll, and you can also predict it easily. You can avoid with stability and Aegis of guard to everyone, you can dodge roll when you see curtain. You can Invul right after you get pulled….

So I think it was just a L2p Issue, as playing vs other mesmers , I rarely got bursted into their pull. If I did, its because I reacted too slow.

If you are reacting too slow its a L2p issue, not an OP issue. Its not hard at all to have a stun break or mist form near ur finger and when you get pulled , you use it…

Masternewbz.4953:

You should Always factor in how much skill you need to do the actions vs how hard is to avoid it:

A S/d light burst with double arcane. How easy is to do it? Very easy… How hard is to dodge it? Its instant and you have to PREDICT it, you dont have reaction time, you must predict it.

A pull for a big shatter on 2-3 ppl? How easy is to do it? Avarage to Hard ( and in 1500TPVP games + Including tournies I played as the Curse and the mist league, I havent gotten pulled more than twice into a multiple shatter , thats how hard its to do it ). How hard is to dodge it? Its very doable, u have at least 0.5 sec to break stun and dodge roll, and you can also predict it easily. You can avoid with stability and Aegis of guard to everyone, you can dodge roll when you see curtain. You can Invul right after you get pulled….

So I think it was just a L2p Issue, as playing vs other mesmers , I rarely got bursted into their pull. If I did, its because I reacted too slow.

If you are reacting too slow its a L2p issue, not an OP issue. Its not hard at all to have a stun break or mist form near ur finger and when you get pulled , you use it…

I think this is an l2p issue for a Mesmer that doesn’t know other classes. Hell your skill barely even got nerfed. Get over it.

Still waiting for a Dev response.

This skill was specifically talked about in last month’s state of the game. All the casters and anet dev team agreed it needed to be nerfed because it was instant and cc’d the entire team in team fights. Perfectly justified.

Masternewbz.4953:

Still waiting for a Dev response.

What game do you play dude?
An instant skill that potentially can kd whole team and this skill is given to a class that can insta aoe burst 2-3 people up to 12k dmg plus conditions…the skill get slighty “nerfed” and you complain?

IMO it wasn’t that pull into burst was unavoidable. It’s more that a single very fast move from a single enemy demanded a stun breaker from EVERY affected person of the team. If even 1 person doesn’t have it, sayonara, and if you do all have it, well that’s great until the 2nd mesmer pulls you. And it’s true that stability counters it, but that requires that you have a guardian in the first place, and that stability is up and is preemptively used, in which case you can just wait till its down again (or shatter it off) and then have mes number 2 pull. I really do think something needed to be done, and also I’m not sure what’s too tough about putting a line in the center of a circle.

Archaon.6245:

If you’re going gc without defensive utilities and stunbreaks you’re basically asking for being bursted down by pretty much every gc on the other team passing by…no matter which class are you playing..

These two gentlemen just made my point for me. Thanks guys.

Stealth.9324:

While it may hold true with other GC because they don’t have to give up their Ults to Burst, while Eles, to be equal on Dams on Burst with other, they HAVE TO give up at least 1 slot of their Ults.

vinceftw.5086:

I’ll give my 2 cents about this. First, I also have a Valkyrie burst S/D ele. I have not practiced with the new traits around yet but due to Fresh Air, I feel like you don’t need to take offensive utilities. IMO, you can still do with cantrips. However, I do agree that is very glassy and that you really don’t have a lot of room for error.

On my mesmer, I also go almost full GC, save from some toughness equips, but I can survive better due to stealth, teleports and clones. Not saying that mesmers are OP or imbalanced, but eles are squishier if built the same. Though, they have more sustained damage now due to Fresh Air.

On topic now: into the void. I always felt this skill was very strong but not OP due to the randomness of the pull. You couldn’t exactly tell where your target would be, making the iLeap miss sometimes. While I understand the nerf, the 1s is a bit too long IMO. In combat it’s okay, but right now, I can’t pull people anymore who run away. Focus used to be the only real thing a mesmer had to catch up to people together with Blink. Now because of the delay, the person is usually out of reach, so you can never get the guy anymore. That’s the major problem for me.

Oh and Archaon: the cool thing about mesmer’s utilities is that they are stun breakers, thus defensive but can also used for offense. Mirror Images to shatter, blink to close gaps or confuse, blink to stealth attack. The equivalent for an ele would be to have stun breaks on arcane skills.

Vince, focus was not meant to be the “catch them weapon”, its main purpose was to synergize with the Illusionary warden to land a full combo since the warden does not move. Traited, you can get projectile reflection and its a good weapon for providing swiftness to mesmers.

All in all, I feel the weapon is quite solid and the pull needed a nerf because as the others said, it has to be timed and should not be a spam skill off cd.

PS: You ran valks and felt squishy. Try running zerker with 2 offensive ultilites and see how you feel. That is basically the gear setup of my shatter mesmer but its impossible to run on my ele.