Guild Wars 2

I see the forums and map chat flooded with this…along with Nerf Guards and Mesmers.

I am not going to get into the later. I’m pretty sure Anet realizes they screwed up with Mesmers with how many posts there are about it.

But lets get one thing straight….it’s not CONDITIONS that are broken…..it’s A CONDITION…..Burn.

Conditions were bogged down for 3 years of the game with their cap. Finally Bleed, Poison, Torm, and Confusion (Was always good) are in a good spot that, from what I can see, is pretty balanced…(Although when super stacked on World Bosses it can be a little insane).

Note: Only one of my five characters is Condition build. So it’s not as if I am trying to stop them from nerfing my character. It’s more of a 4/5 conditions are finally viable and make for a fun new game to play now that they are. I would hate to see it all ruined again and go back full circle because that 1/5 is currently broken.

I am hoping we can all agree on this. Maybe I just haven’t seen it though. Has anyone been getting massacred by Poison, Bleed, or Torment (LOL! Ya right), the way burn is now melting people?

The amount of torment, confusion, bleed and poison mesmers, necros and engis can put out in a very small time frame is just as broken as burning.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

The amount of torment, confusion, bleed and poison mesmers, necros and engis can put out in a very small time frame is just as broken as burning.

Nah lockdown/shatter mesmer is better,necro doesn’t stack it transfers,corrupts and weakens necro is the slowest condition stacking class, engi has always been like that necro keeps them in check. Other than burning other conditions are weak necro being the only with (wet)burning that doesn’t use it.

First the threshold for efficient condition damage needs to be increased. Some damage needs to go away from burn to other conditions while not forgetting ele,guard and somewhat war deserves good to great burning.

Yeah nerf the ability to create huge long lasting burn stacks with one player. 15 stacks from a guardian is simply too much.

And.. what most people don’t realize is that condition specs, on any class, won’t be viable in organized competitive matches, because eles/guardians have so much aoe cleanse that condition builds become useless in teamfights. It could only be viable if you had a full comp of condition classes backing it up, since the only way to get around the cleanse is to outdo it with tons of conditions from everyone… however the obvious caveat to that is that condition dps specs generally have poor sustain, with the only exception of settler ranger, so its just easier to bring celestial elementalists and bunker guards for sustain, and zerker/mara or soldiers every other damage role in teamfights, just be cause its easier to to not have your damage instantly nullified by group cleanses of eachother, which was the defining hallmark of the celestial engi/ele/war meta, which has evolved into a cele ele/shoutgaurd meta.

Go to any well known pvp streamer, and they’ll tell you the same thing, condition builds suck at high levels of play against organized comps.

Sagat.3285:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

The amount of torment, confusion, bleed and poison mesmers, necros and engis can put out in a very small time frame is just as broken as burning.

Nah lockdown/shatter mesmer is better,necro doesn’t stack it transfers,corrupts and weakens necro is the slowest condition stacking class, engi has always been like that necro keeps them in check. Other than burning other conditions are weak necro being the only with (wet)burning that doesn’t use it.

First the threshold for efficient condition damage needs to be increased. Some damage needs to go away from burn to other conditions while not forgetting ele,guard and somewhat war deserves good to great burning.

I can burst 16 bleeds 5 stacks poison + weakness on my necro. I can maintain 8-10 stacks auto attacking. It’s not just transfer.

Caine.8204:

Sagat.3285:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

The amount of torment, confusion, bleed and poison mesmers, necros and engis can put out in a very small time frame is just as broken as burning.

Nah lockdown/shatter mesmer is better,necro doesn’t stack it transfers,corrupts and weakens necro is the slowest condition stacking class, engi has always been like that necro keeps them in check. Other than burning other conditions are weak necro being the only with (wet)burning that doesn’t use it.

First the threshold for efficient condition damage needs to be increased. Some damage needs to go away from burn to other conditions while not forgetting ele,guard and somewhat war deserves good to great burning.

I can burst 16 bleeds 5 stacks poison + weakness on my necro. I can maintain 8-10 stacks auto attacking. It’s not just transfer.

And the damage output for that is actually lower than pre-patch, due to bleeds and poison being nerfed in damage (bleeds are weaker below 2055 condition damage than they were pre-patch).

Nobody feared a Necro’s slow to stack bleeds and poison before if they were any good. They really shouldn’t be now either.

nearlight.3064:

Yeah nerf the ability to create huge long lasting burn stacks with one player. 15 stacks from a guardian is simply too much.

And.. what most people don’t realize is that condition specs, on any class, won’t be viable in organized competitive matches, because eles/guardians have so much aoe cleanse that condition builds become useless in teamfights. It could only be viable if you had a full comp of condition classes backing it up, since the only way to get around the cleanse is to outdo it with tons of conditions from everyone… however the obvious caveat to that is that condition dps specs generally have poor sustain, with the only exception of settler ranger, so its just easier to bring celestial elementalists and bunker guards for sustain, and zerker/mara or soldiers every other damage role in teamfights, just be cause its easier to to not have your damage instantly nullified by group cleanses of eachother, which was the defining hallmark of the celestial engi/ele/war meta, which has evolved into a cele ele/shoutgaurd meta.

Go to any well known pvp streamer, and they’ll tell you the same thing, condition builds suck at high levels of play against organized comps.

I like how you say competive builds because WE ALL play competitively. What a joke, so the casual players of this game are just suppose to bite the bullet known as condi damage just because “condi isn’t broken in organized fashion…”. I feel like this is what arenanet was thinking when designed this new system. It’s honestly disgusting. Conditions are so broken and attempting to justify by mentioning how its not broken in competitive play only strengths the arguments that it’s out of control. You have to have a group of 5 people communicating with each other to handle it, seem like it’s under control, you’re right.

The increase in death shroud means I can put up with more damage, and dish out conditions longer. When i take the burst, I can passively transfer those conditions back to you, stack more on, and blind you to the point of no return.

It made necromancers into a juggernaut of conditions, and you don’t play necromancer enough if you think that they are in an okay place right now.

And that “nerf” in damage definitely wasn’t significant, because my bleed stacks still do 110-130 damage depending on might, which is right around what it used to be pre-patch.

Funny how players tell that they can make huge condi burst. Is sPvP player skill level so low that they just let enemy land some 7 skill condi burst? I would think that power spec can make huge burst too if enemy let him land 7 skills.

Sagat.3285:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

The amount of torment, confusion, bleed and poison mesmers, necros and engis can put out in a very small time frame is just as broken as burning.

Nah lockdown/shatter mesmer is better,necro doesn’t stack it transfers,corrupts and weakens necro is the slowest condition stacking class, engi has always been like that necro keeps them in check. Other than burning other conditions are weak necro being the only with (wet)burning that doesn’t use it.

First the threshold for efficient condition damage needs to be increased. Some damage needs to go away from burn to other conditions while not forgetting ele,guard and somewhat war deserves good to great burning.

It doesn’t really matter where the conditions come from when you get dumped with 6-10 conditions within a second.

But I agree that while conditions need to be adjusted overall, they REALLY need to keep Guard and Ele in mind when doing so because burning is all they have, and now for the first time since the games release both classes actually have a viable condition build. If burning is overnerfed both classes will have to go back to the old power builds again, lessening build diversity by a lot.

I like the new condi, it gives me (on Mesmer) a reasonable shot against Wars and thieves. The complaining reflects a need to learn defense.

“Necro stack dmg condi’s too quickly”

No really, some one is saying this.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

The amount of torment, confusion, bleed and poison mesmers, necros and engis can put out in a very small time frame is just as broken as burning.

Necros can’t stack confusion on anyone and can hardly stack a bunch of anything “in a small time frame”. If a Necro ‘condi bursts’ you, then he was just returning the favor of that condi burst you just tried to dump on him. This is great for my Power build, watching ppl wreck themselves b/c the though loading the Necro with a bunch of condis real fast sounded like a good idea. Hehe

ritzick.7629:

nearlight.3064:

Yeah nerf the ability to create huge long lasting burn stacks with one player. 15 stacks from a guardian is simply too much.

And.. what most people don’t realize is that condition specs, on any class, won’t be viable in organized competitive matches, because eles/guardians have so much aoe cleanse that condition builds become useless in teamfights. It could only be viable if you had a full comp of condition classes backing it up, since the only way to get around the cleanse is to outdo it with tons of conditions from everyone… however the obvious caveat to that is that condition dps specs generally have poor sustain, with the only exception of settler ranger, so its just easier to bring celestial elementalists and bunker guards for sustain, and zerker/mara or soldiers every other damage role in teamfights, just be cause its easier to to not have your damage instantly nullified by group cleanses of eachother, which was the defining hallmark of the celestial engi/ele/war meta, which has evolved into a cele ele/shoutgaurd meta.

Go to any well known pvp streamer, and they’ll tell you the same thing, condition builds suck at high levels of play against organized comps.

I like how you say competive builds because WE ALL play competitively. What a joke, so the casual players of this game are just suppose to bite the bullet known as condi damage just because “condi isn’t broken in organized fashion…”. I feel like this is what arenanet was thinking when designed this new system. It’s honestly disgusting. Conditions are so broken and attempting to justify by mentioning how its not broken in competitive play only strengths the arguments that it’s out of control. You have to have a group of 5 people communicating with each other to handle it, seem like it’s under control, you’re right.

Maybe my view is a little bit stilted since I often queue with my guild when I play, but still condition builds are only really viable in low tier play, with the exception of burn spam builds on guard/ele/engi that have many other glaring weaknesses that make them unviable. Burn guard is the only one that can really do damage in teamfights enough to scare an organized team, and even then they can work around it with communication.

If you queue up in ranked you will often end up facing against 5 man premade teams, and as your MMR increases the organization of their comps will only get better. And even if you just soloque in unranked there will be often be eles and guards and whatnot that will just remove conditions AoE of their own accord without even planning it through their offensive and defensive skill rotations. In an organized group cleanse happens so frequently just by doing normal skill rotations that condition builds can’t keep up.

If you think that organized groups have to work together just to deal with condis, you are kitten wrong. They care about rotations and movement across the map, and their cleanses happen passively as they cross heal and support eachother and themselves.

If you nerf the burning, most of your lower tier condi meta concerns will disappear. Thats the only condi nerf I really agree with. Kill the burning.

Condition builds will always be strong in 1v1 on any class against any class, except when facing cele eles or any necro build with signets. Thats it. If you know can’t beat something 1v1, don’t attempt to do it, since its generally pointless for you. Just know in that in an actual teamfight their damage pressure will be very low, as will their sustain, so in my opinion its balanced. Know what your build can do and know what they’re build can and can’t do, then you will understand.