Guild Wars 2

Thieves having so much stealth doesn’t bother me because they actually have to come in to burst you in melee range and while in stealth they are not a threat. However mesmers can burst from range in stealth? Not to mention when they go stealth, they have clones and phastasm doing damage to you? And when you finally lock them down they can teleport or go invulnerable? And they can cc you like crap? And blind you too? Heck they can even just turn you to a Moa and render your class mechanics useless. Why not give mermers high armor and hp while you at it, Anet. It’s ridiculous how much advantage one class has.

Even though Mesmers can do all that, it wouldn’t bother me if they did not have so much access to stealth. Instead of stealth, mesmers should just swap positions with clones.

in my opinion mesmers having stealth is not the problem

i think the problem is, that mesmers can do dps while being stealthed, becouse of phantasms

if phantasm attacks would break mesmers stealth other classes would get a solid counter play and the mesmer would need to think, if he wants to dps enemy, or to play defensive in stealth

if you think, that mesmer coudnt stealth ever again, becouse of phantasms breaking mesmers stealth, than keep in mind, that phantasms have an attack speed/cd, in between those attacks mesmers would be able to stealth, its just, that mesmers would have need to start playing proper

PU buff is the worst idea i’ve ever seen in the history of video game.

This trait was already pretty strong and abused by all those condi PU lamers in WvW, but at least it couldn’t be used in a shatter build because of the lack of trait points.

Now not only can shatter use it, but they buffed it, and not a little buff, it’s a super kittened buff.

Now mesmers stealth more than thief while having more burst and 2 invul. Super kittened indeed.

I still think the problem are mantras, not stealth, but yeah, not bad the PU buff

Can you imagine the outcry if thief got invulnerable frames? . I’m sure thieves would love it though…

bhagwad.4281:

Can you imagine the outcry if thief got invulnerable frames? . I’m sure thieves would love it though…

and aoe backstab from range… and mutiple ranged stuns dealing 3k dmg that cost 0 initiative… and unavoidable blinds

no, we wouldn’t love it… it would just make pvp totally broken and unenjoyable~

mesmers are the magicians, masters of illusion and misdirection.
“now you see it now you don’t!”

making things disappear is one of the most commonly played cards in a magician’s repertoire!

Liewec.2896:

mesmers are the magicians, masters of illusion and misdirection.
“now you see it now you don’t!”

making things disappear is one of the most commonly played cards in a magician’s repertoire!

Fine but I didn’t agree to help out so why did I disappear too?

Liewec.2896:

mesmers are the magicians, masters of illusion and misdirection.
“now you see it now you don’t!”

making things disappear is one of the most commonly played cards in a magician’s repertoire!

I can understand them having stealth. but its at the point where they have more stealth incombat than Thieves, the class whose whole playerbase play it for the stealth. Not to mention with all the bugged blind and invur they have, it’s simply too strong.

They need to balance mesmer:
- all clones vanish when going into stealth
- -30% dmg modifier of next 2 attacks while coming out of stealth (mesmer reveal)
+ some other balances.

Yaa! Everyone knows there can’t be a magic based stealth class and a traditional rogue based stealth class. Thats just ridicules. There can only be one. Why? Because I said so, and that is the way its always been. We don’t need gw2 to be unique. Unique is not why gw2 to where it is today. Boringly copying every other mmo is why gw2 became so popular. Du, I thought everyone knew that.

Xstein: you’re kind of ignoring the point.

Mesmer has been a stealth class since launch, it’s just not had *this much* stealth available in *this many builds*.

Nobody’s saying "make Mesmer unable to stealth". The point being made is "Mesmers can currently stealth *too much* and are *too strong* due to the trait that does this.

Right now Mesmers can do high damage, with CC, from far away, with relatively little counterplay. Stealth contributes to this significantly.

Not to mention that Mesmers’ stealth access literally just got buffed significantly - as chibbi says, the relevant trait got a buff *as well* as got made accessible to more builds.

Problem is that mesmers used to sacrifice damage to take PU build. Latest changes enabled power-ish builds to take PU traits, and abilities. Too many stealth (still thief has a better stealt capacity though, at least for me).

If a mesmer traits for stealth, he can be invisible for a long time. And that bloody mantra combo kills many unaware people. I used to play PU way before these changes (it was not very powerful but fun for me). We can do decent PU builds that people wont be ridicule nowadays, but now Mesmers have some very very powerful builds. Anet should’ve brought that last traitline. All the imbalance is caused by that trait line being missing. They calculated including that traits, so now there is a tremendous imbalance.

Cynz.9437:

bhagwad.4281:

Can you imagine the outcry if thief got invulnerable frames? . I’m sure thieves would love it though…

and aoe backstab from range… and mutiple ranged stuns dealing 3k dmg that cost 0 initiative… and unavoidable blinds

no, we wouldn’t love it… it would just make pvp totally broken and unenjoyable~

If you see a bunch of illusions running towards you, you can expect to be blown up so dodge or evade it? Oh you get stunned before it lands? Use a stunbreak. You have none? Why not?

serenke.4806:

Cynz.9437:

bhagwad.4281:

Can you imagine the outcry if thief got invulnerable frames? . I’m sure thieves would love it though…

and aoe backstab from range… and mutiple ranged stuns dealing 3k dmg that cost 0 initiative… and unavoidable blinds

no, we wouldn’t love it… it would just make pvp totally broken and unenjoyable~

If you see a bunch of illusions running towards you, you can expect to be blown up so dodge or evade it? Oh you get stunned before it lands? Use a stunbreak. You have none? Why not?

Lol , why not? Because stun breaks usually are on 2 to 3 times the cooldown of the mantra recharge itself , and you don’t get 3 charges of stun breaks, you get 1 use. That was the dumbest question I’ve ever seen and close to the worst defense for mesmer I’ve seen yet. Mesmer instant stuns are broken and the burst dmg is ridiculous at the moment. It will for sure be nerfed after WTS.

Oh yea, I dodged the shatter burst but still get blind spammed for it, guess that’s alright too huh?

The people that defend mesmer’s current state are pretty hilarious.

Cheese: Xstein: you’re kind of ignoring the point.

My point was that some think Mesmer shouldn’t be a “stealth” class like thief. This is ludicrous, as explained in my post.

Cheese: Mesmer has been a stealth class since launch, it’s just not had this much stealth available in this many builds.

Agreed. Why shouldn’t it?

Cheese: Nobody’s saying “make Mesmer unable to stealth”. The point being made is "Mesmers can currently stealth too much and are too strong due to the trait that does this.

Why is this too much? Thieves have access to stealth through Merciful Ambush, Meld with Shadows, Hidden Thief, Cloak and dagger, Shadow Trap, Hide in Shadows, Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge, Black powder smoke field, and smoke screen with smoke field. This gives thieves the ability of having permanent stealth. Not to mention thieves can synergize better with stealth through their stealth attack abilities and many traits such as cloaked in shadow.

Mesmers have access to stealth through PU, veil, the prestige, decoy, and mass invisibility. Mesmers cannot have permanent stealth like the thief. It is impossible.
I would also like to note that shadow refuge is a utility skill with a 60 second cool down that provides 15 seconds of stealth to a group of 5. On the other hand, mass invisibility is an elite skill that provides 5 seconds of stealth to a group of 5. Which core trait wins? Yaaaaa, there is no comparison. Even with PU, shadow refuge still wins.

Cheese: Right now Mesmers can do high damage, with CC, from far away, with relatively little counterplay. Stealth contributes to this significantly.

Mesmers need to be close so that they, as a shatter, hit the target. They also need to switch to sword (if running prestige), ideally, after the burst as every good great sword skill is on cool down. Thieves can do high burst damage after stealth as well. The little counter play is due to confounding suggestions and blinding dissipation, which has been covered in other posts many times. It is not due to PU. If so, you would be complaining about lack of counter play even more so about the thief because they have more access to stealth, or at least be complaining just as much.

Cheese: Not to mention that Mesmers’ stealth access literally just got buffed significantly – as chibbi says, the relevant trait got a buff as well as got made accessible to more builds.

Ya, stealth got buffed by a lot with the new PU, and the Mesmer needed it to come even relatively close to thieves in the stealth category. The memser still can’t stealth as much as a thief. People could play PU in just as many builds before the patch. Of the two major Mesmer pvp builds, only one uses PU. Before the patch, mesmers were locked down to choosing only one viable build type in pvp because of illusionary person. Is this a good model? Is this the way it should be? Noooooooo! Being locked down to one build choice is boring as kitten. It lacks variety, limiting the fun of playing a class in pvp. Robert Gee and others recognized this and fixed it. A larger variety of good builds can now incorporate PU. However, a larger variety of good builds can incorporate other traits as well, instead of the chaos line with PU. PU isn’t a necessity. Mesmers get longer stealth duration from PU. However, is it really that useful? Good mesmers don’t need 100% more stealth to land a burst or survive a sticky situation. What matters is frequency. For example, a new shatter ability that allowed you to stealth for a couple of seconds would be a lot more useful in most situations than PU, imo, much like the Hidden Thief trait. Sure, a mesmer who has PU has a better chance of surviving. However, chances are they are getting the most use out of PU because they got beat and are trying to stealth away. Therefore, even though the mesmer didn’t get stomped, its almost as good as a kill because the mesmer just wasted a whole bunch of time in the match when they could have been helping the rest of the team. Just cause you didn’t get the stomp, doesn’t mean you lost.

Stealth isn’t really the problem. The problem is the instant cast stun that set’s up an insanely large burst. A mes can sit around in stealth all day if they want, what matters is landing damage. That’s what is too easy right now.

Has Anet explained why they thought mesmers needed more stealth duration?

Well, their passive and active defense didn’t work so does its own core defensive mechanic called Clones. why not give them stealth. =P

cheese.4739:

Xstein: you’re kind of ignoring the point.

Mesmer has been a stealth class since launch, it’s just not had *this much stealth available in this many builds. *

Nobody’s saying “make Mesmer unable to stealth”. The point being made is "Mesmers can currently stealth too much and are too strong due to the trait that does this.

Right now Mesmers can do high damage, with CC, from far away, with relatively little counterplay. Stealth contributes to this significantly.

Not to mention that Mesmers’ stealth access literally just got buffed significantly – as chibbi says, the relevant trait got a buff as well as got made accessible to more builds.

What?

Prestige, Decoy, Mass Invis and Veil are exactly the same – apart from minor changes that have happened over the years – for example Prestige being changed to and from a channeled skill, Decoy being changed to be affected by Revealed after the 09/2014 patch, and now the ability to trait MI for 72 second cooldown – but with the danger of revealing yourself due to the reflect.

Otherwise these skills are exactly the same and perfectly fine. The complaints about Prestige and Decoy are utterly ridiculous seeing as they have worked in this way for years (apart from the time when Prestige was channeled) and not been any problem.

Now suddenly due to higher damage across the board as well as buffs to mesmer stunlock, it is possible to annihilate people from stealth bursts – so in that case fix the damage and stunlock instead of breaking/ruining Prestige and Decoy through misguided nerfs.

The ONLY things affecting stealth access are:
- PU
- The Pledge

Now I think most players (mesmers included) agree PU needs a significant nerf.

And The Pledge is actually a bad trait if not using PU so many people are in favour of changing it back to a flat 20% cooldown reduction to torch – which would solve the problem of encouraging stealth camping and extreme synergy with PU as well as allowing it to be useful in builds not using PU.

Doon.2364:

Thieves having so much stealth doesn’t bother me because they actually have to come in to burst you in melee range and while in stealth they are not a threat. However mesmers can burst from range in stealth? Not to mention when they go stealth, they have clones and phastasm doing damage to you? And when you finally lock them down they can teleport or go invulnerable? And they can cc you like crap? And blind you too? Heck they can even just turn you to a Moa and render your class mechanics useless. Why not give mermers high armor and hp while you at it, Anet. It’s ridiculous how much advantage one class has.

Even though Mesmers can do all that, it wouldn’t bother me if they did not have so much access to stealth. Instead of stealth, mesmers should just swap positions with clones.

The mesmers have so much stealth because … they are a creation of ANET. I think this pretty much covers it.

And on an effort to prevent my post from being deleted because i “insulted” the almighty A N E T, play a stone heart ele and not even the baddest superhero superfast macro mesmer will be able to get you below 80% health.

This OP mesmer phase has actually one advantage: all the bad players in this game are finally learning to play!

Doon, apart from the blind, nothing you listed is new. Mesmers were balanced (UP even), while doing exactly that. The new PU trait is a bit too strong (not that much considering you run no condi removal at all in that build though). And no, mesmers can not burst from range. GS2 deals no damage at long range, so they are either forced to melee you, or Blink, which is a rather long CD and their only stun breaker (in the mantra build). Compare that to the thief’s Steal (21s CD) or Shadow Shot (0s CD). So if you are to get bursted, it’s gonna be in melee range. Beware!

Their only damaging abilities at long range is the very obvious iZerker. Dodge!

Reading these threads, I understand why Anet takes so long to patch: some players are still adapting, not even knowing what the builds do! Pro tip: just like pre-patch, everyone was forced to learn thief, ele or warrior to counter them, you need to play a mesmer and finally understand why you die.

I agree with the post above except PU has always been fine in TPvP because the longer a Mesmer is stealthed, the longer he’s off point. PU has always been strong in duels and not as viable in Conquest. It’s what the Mesmer can do while in stealth, that’s not right.

Sorel.4870:

This OP mesmer phase has actually one advantage: all the bad players in this game are finally learning to play!

Doon, apart from the blind, nothing you listed is new. Mesmers were balanced (UP even), while doing exactly that. The new PU trait is a bit too strong (not that much considering you run no condi removal at all in that build though). And no, mesmers can not burst from range. GS2 deals no damage at long range, so they are either forced to melee you, or Blink, which is a rather long CD and their only stun breaker (in the mantra build). Compare that to the thief’s Steal (21s CD) or Shadow Shot (0s CD). So if you are to get bursted, it’s gonna be in melee range. Beware!

Their only damaging abilities at long range is the very obvious iZerker. Dodge!

Reading these threads, I understand why Anet takes so long to patch: some players are still adapting, not even knowing what the builds do! Pro tip: just like pre-patch, everyone was forced to learn thief, ele or warrior to counter them, you need to play a mesmer and finally understand why you die.

Some really professional advice from this player. Wow.

Advice #1
So if you are to get bursted, it’s gonna be in melee range. Beware!

A bunch of words that mean absolutely nothing. First of all, you can’t see the mesmer when he is in stealth (maybe you can) and therefore you can’t know when he is in melee range. And even if he is visible, you can’t tell easily which is the player and which is the clone. “Good” players (and you of course!) IMMEDIATELY spot the player amongst its clones. Let’s say that is … true. And that he is in melee range. When is the spike coming? What should we “beware” about? You are not enlightening us. But I guess the mystery in life is the juice.

Advice #2
Their only damaging abilities at long range is the very obvious iZerker. Dodge!

Dodge? Wow. Thank you for teaching us the dodge.
“iZerker” = what exactly? Again, no explanation here. Just a show off of alleged “knowledge”.

And now, I sense a l2p answer incoming. Ah well, typical from 8 year old boys.

I think it’s anfairly if thief says something about mesmer that he doesn’t like. If these is the first class that can kill me in a few seconds it’s is a thief! And i always hate thieves for their stealth and stun. It’s easy to kill us if you know who we are and who is our clones. But i have never said about it here and will never to ask dev to do something with it. Sorry, i haven’t read last changes if they were but if mesmers got some of them i finally say Thanks to Anet because i have stopped dying all the time from any classes. So our stealth sometimes is the last attemp to survive under your fast knives.

Annette.6278:

I think it’s anfairly if thief says something about mesmer that he doesn’t like. If these is the first class that can kill me in a few seconds it’s is a thief! And i always hate thieves for their stealth and stun. It’s easy to kill us if you know who we are and who is our clones. But i have never said about it here and will never to ask dev to do something with it. Sorry, i haven’t read last changes if they were but if mesmers got some of them i finally say Thanks to Anet because i have stopped dying all the time from any classes. So our stealth sometimes is the last attemp to survive under your fast knives.

Was that an excerpt from something said 2 months ago prepatch?

Thief isn’t saying it to that class, as if Mesmer now counters Thief instead of the other way around. Every class is saying what the Thief is saying. To say that something is now fair because a class was in that same situation previously, doesn’t justify the classes overall prowess over other professions in the game.

Saiyan.1704:

Was that an excerpt from something said 2 months ago prepatch?

I have my holiday from the game for about 4 months so i don’t know if someone said it before me. And one of the reason that i had this time is that i’m tired of dying from anyone especially from thieves. All classes killed us for 2 years and i haven’t heard tears about it from them. They just enjoyed it.

@nassau “Help I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!” I also don’t know why that one suspicious clone does other stuff than auto attack. iZerker is the phantasm that does the spinning attack at you in melee range- don’t dodge in the direction that it’s moving or it will usually catch you at the end. Have you tried making a Mesmer just to look at the strong weapon skills? Mesmers are strong but it’s not because of hiding beside clones or just the phantasm.

singinggecko.5736:

@nassau “Help I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!” I also don’t know why that one suspicious clone does other stuff than auto attack. iZerker is the phantasm that does the spinning attack at you in melee range- don’t dodge in the direction that it’s moving or it will usually catch you at the end. Have you tried making a Mesmer just to look at the strong weapon skills? Mesmers are strong but it’s not because of hiding beside clones or just the phantasm.

I have 500 spvp matches on mesmer, thank you. Also, I disagree. Mesmers are extremely weak damage-wise. They cannot kill a LIGHT armor elementalist 1v1 and have to rely on a gank to kill it. But that is not really an issue of mesmers, is it? Good morning to the wonderful A N E T.

Nassau.6713:

And now, I sense a l2p answer incoming.

kitten right son! GS2 is used to burst from stealth. So, yeah, you don’t see the mesmer being in melee range, but you know he will be, just like you know that the thief will try to get close to you for a BS. Except that in this case, the mesmer only has one teleport. So you can:
- Move away from where he entered stealth: most mesmers are slow (low swiftness access), and you’ll mitigate a lot of damage that way.
- AoE around you. I don’t know what you play, but on engineer for example, just throwing grenades at your feet, in particular the blind grenade, will allow you to mitigate the burst
- Count the stealth. Maybe a bit too advanced for you, but torch #4 and Decoy are 3s long on most mesmers, 6s on PU. They’ll burst in the end. So count 1,2,dodge.

iZerker is the spinning phantasm. He spawns close to you and has a very obvious animation. So yeah, dodge.

I doubt you have 500 games played on your mesmer. I have around 400, and this is basic stuff. OR maybe you never played Greatsword? In any case, get more training.

Sorel.4870:

Nassau.6713:

And now, I sense a l2p answer incoming.

kitten right son! GS2 is used to burst from stealth. So, yeah, you don’t see the mesmer being in melee range, but you know he will be, just like you know that the thief will try to get close to you for a BS. Except that in this case, the mesmer only has one teleport. So you can:
- Move away from where he entered stealth: most mesmers are slow (low swiftness access), and you’ll mitigate a lot of damage that way.
- AoE around you. I don’t know what you play, but on engineer for example, just throwing grenades at your feet, in particular the blind grenade, will allow you to mitigate the burst
- Count the stealth. Maybe a bit too advanced for you, but torch #4 and Decoy are 3s long on most mesmers, 6s on PU. They’ll burst in the end. So count 1,2,dodge.

iZerker is the spinning phantasm. He spawns close to you and has a very obvious animation. So yeah, dodge.

I doubt you have 500 games played on your mesmer. I have around 400, and this is basic stuff. OR maybe you never played Greatsword? In any case, get more training.

You do realize that PU grants swiftness pretty reliably, that almost all of these burst PU builds include dodges as a main part of the burst chain when you begin to enter close proximity for shatter clones, and finally that sitting there counting the seconds you have your thumb jammed in your kitten does not address the fact you arent doing anything to them? Don’t forget mesmers have a sexy trait for 30% damage to people with thumbs actively in their kitten . And thanks again for the reminder to dodge, it is easy to forget fundamentals when you are actively being molested by an invisible person in a dress.

mesmer is entirely ruining the game, im just doing dailies and afk/chat in game…untill im bored with that and drop gw2 entirely….mesmer need hardcore extreme tone downs and either stealth be removed from them and swap positions with clones…awesome idea tbh. or their burst need be toned down by full 60%. I used to love gw2 but the game is being ruined by this particular class. also stop using excuses like “but they are hardly seen on official tournaments” that’s no reason to have it be a godmode class in less organized play.

But but but mesmer is squishy, no it’s not a thief is squishy mesmer isn’t….in fact mesmer are hardcore tanks with their free on demand every 9.5 sec ignore enemy burst (distortion) mesmer isn’t squishy at all…only on paper in reality it tanks more then nearly if not all other classes out there

Mesmer mine wrack shatter is easy to dodge. I would not suggest randomly dodging after two seconds of torch stealth. Better to wait and dodge what you can see. Dodge as soon as you take any damage or see izerker and you will negate most of the damage from mind wrack if they are doing a quick burst. Same thing with thief. I don’t recommend randomly dodging. Just keep moving and be prepared to use your abilities when they actually burst.

Darksteel: mesmer is entirely ruining the game, im just doing dailies and afk/chat in game…untill im bored with that and drop gw2 entirely….mesmer need hardcore extreme tone downs and either stealth be removed from them and swap positions with clones…awesome idea tbh. or their burst need be toned down by full 60%. I used to love gw2 but the game is being ruined by this particular class. also stop using excuses like “but they are hardly seen on official tournaments” that’s no reason to have it be a godmode class in less organized play.
But but but mesmer is squishy, no it’s not a thief is squishy mesmer isn’t….in fact mesmer are hardcore tanks with their free on demand every 9.5 sec ignore enemy burst (distortion) mesmer isn’t squishy at all…only on paper in reality it tanks more then nearly if not all other classes out there

The only thing these paragraphs said about PU was “I hate mesmers, it should be nerfed”. You didn’t explain why. You are also randomly throwing in excuses from other forums that no one has mentioned here and have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Hardly anything you mentioned is relevant. Why are you bringing in outside arguments from totally different topics from totally different people?

ow oke, here we go: ranged 1200 spammable radius 240 bursts that go well over 14k damage on armor 3k+. near perma stealth, free facetanking every enemy bursts every 9.5 sec. best mobility in game, free ranged stuns…the reason why I did not mention all this, is cause I thought we all kinda alrdy knew this…..einstijn (yes on purpose) sorry for your attemtp to make mesmer look balanced or finally viable…but no, mesmer is ruining pretty much any spec out there for it will win or at least have 90% win chance…. but yea balanced right? you can beat mesmer easily? ofc you can, then pls do show us how…not in text but in play….let’s find a decent or even good mesmer player and you go 10 1v1’s…you will lose all 10…ofc you know this cause you play mesmer (denying or confirming not required for it can’t be checked anyhow)also mirror of anquish lol…man mesmer is broken beyond…ps. did I mention the highest and most spammable aoe ranged bursts in game. mesmer is the definition of pure free passiveness in gw2. mindstab radius 240…lol can’t even miss your target with that…nah man keep defending the mesmer all you like, facts tho speak for themselves and tho it will take a while…the nerf will come cause people are already tired of the class and more will follow including mesmer mains will grow tired of this sooner or later, mesmer is the poison to balance and fun of the game and I think we all know it.

I see it all the time 24/7 everywhere, people autofail versus mesmers always, good players avarage players they all lose to the mesmer….is it because they all suck, is it because only the best players in gw2 play mesmer? no, it’s cause mesmer needs hardcore nerfs on either stealth or damage output, the rest they can keep they just need dish something in like all other classes do… mesmer is pure poison to the game imo.

Ow and before we go l2p and you’re just new…I have aprox 10k matches on my name and made a fool of some top 50 players not to long ago in multiple 1v1’s….cause I am a noname and they would surely rekt me… (won’t say their names out of respect)

Mesmer is stupid broken and ruins any play that isn’t 200% official style tournament organized and needs a very very hardcore tonedown. Stealth or damage, you choose…cause tho it will take some time the nerf is inc

And no I don’t hate any class as of yet….tho I am slowly starting to realy dislike mesmer and it’s amount of mesmer players everywhere (see the connection?) and yes I’m saying mesmer presence atm is very unhealthy for the gaming society…for unless in 200% ultra hardcore organized teams it pretty much does not pay of to play anything but a mesmer…this I consider very unhealthy yes very very…it’s poison tbh to the gaming society and yes it keeps stacking.

Avarage reaction of people Ik in game who have never played mesmer but rolled one cause of you know what: “haha ye it’s super easy tbh” “the damage is insane” “I thought mesmers took skill to play but……” “rofllol”

Hardly anything you mentioned is relevant. Why are you bringing in outside arguments from totally different topics from totally different people?

Is this topic about mesmers and it’s problems? ow yes it is…you exposed yourself, how?
By saying something entirely wrong and trying to save what is left of the sinking ship.

K, I’m just gona go through the post one by one to organize it just to make it easier.

1. Yes, mesmers have a high burst, just like the thief. Thats why they nerfed mirror blade, they thought it was too high. If burst is a problem, you mess with burst, not PU or stealth. This post is about stealth, it is not about burst damage. If you think stealth or PU is the reason mesmers have such high burst damage, please explain.

2. Near perma stealth. Yes, you and many others have said mesmers have a lot of stealth. However, as I have said before, the thief still has more stealth than the mesmer, even with PU. I also explained why I didn’t believe it was a problem.

3. free facetanking enemy burst every 9.5 sec. Yes blurred frenzy is useful. It has a 12 second cool down. When you use it in the game, after the skill is over, you see it click down from 11 sec, not 9.5. Not sure if you realize, but a kitten ton can happen in 11 seconds. Lets also look at other classes. Warrior can evade and attack with whirlwind attack every 10 seconds (shorter than mesmer) and thief’s can use death blossom to attack while evading with initiative. Therefore, they can potentially do it more frequently than the mesmer. Not to mention that you can’t move and use blurred frenzy at the same time. Do you know what this means? Move out of the way! You don’t need to stand still and take the damage of blurred frenzy. Step out of the way so you don’t take damage. The mesmer can’t move. Also don’t attack during this time. Save your cool downs. As soon as its over, then you attack. Finally, PU and stealth doesn’t impact blurred frenzy or face tanking every 9.5 sec.

4. Best mobility in game. I think this is very debatable. Mesmers currently have no traits that increase their movement speed besides focus every 25 sec (if you carry it instead of torch) and PU which only may randomly give you swiftness if you are in stealth. Meanwhile a class like the warrior can have 25% increased movement speed just as long as they are carrying a melee weapon. Mesmers are skrewed in the mobility department.

5. Free ranged stuns. I don’t know what exactly you mean by free. As you know, mantras were nerfed, as they should have been. How would nerfing PU or stealth help with stuns? Changing CS helps with stuns, not PU.

6. “the reason why I did not mention all this, is cause I thought we all kinda alrdy knew this.”

Yes, I know this. I just personally find most of it irrelevant. You don’t nerf PU or stealth because mesmers have high bursts, you nerf the bursts. You don’t nerf PU or stealth because of frequent stuns, you nerf the source of the stuns. Nerfing traits that aren’t causing the problem doesn’t solve anything.

7. “sorry for your attemtp to make mesmer look balanced or finally viable”. This thread is about stealth. When I wrote my previous comments I did not believe that mesmers were balanced. My comments were also made before the current nerfs. However, I did not believe PU or stealth was the reason why mesmers were unbalanced, which is why I defended mesmer stealth. I also never said in this thread that mesmers were balanced or “finally viable”. Read my previous comments, I never said that. Don’t put words in peoples mouths that they never said. What makes you think I believed this when I wrote my comments. You are making false assumptions. Just look under my name, you will see when I wrote my comment that I thought confounding suggestions needed to be nerfed. Why would I believe the class was balanced if I thought it needed a nerf?

8. After this it just looks like a bunch of smack talk that I don’t care about. Attempting to dis me adds nothing to the conversation about weather or not mesmer stealth needs to be nerfed.

9. “Ow and before we go l2p and you’re just new…I have aprox 10k matches on my name and made a fool of some top 50 players not to long ago in multiple 1v1’s….cause I am a noname and they would surely rekt me… (won’t say their names out of respect)”

My god, I never said l2p and was never going to. Why are you making false assumptions and then complaining about those assumptions?

The dissing then continues, I still don’t care.

10. “Is this topic about mesmers and it’s problems? ow yes it is…you exposed yourself, how?
By saying something entirely wrong and trying to save what is left of the sinking ship.”

This is a topic about PU and mesmer stealth. It is not about burst, stun, etc. What did I say wrong? Point it out and explain. Ouch, a finale dissing phrase. It hurts so much.

Historically, Mesmers have been underpowered since the last huge confusion nerf 2+ years ago.

As a Mesmer main, I’m empowered by others being silly.

The claim has been made that a Mesmer should be revealed if a phantasm does damage.

A ranger isn’t revealed when her pet attacks. Why should a Mesmer be?

An Engineer is not revealed when her turrets attack.

A thief is not revealed when her thieves guild attacks.

The requests that are being made for major nerfs simply aren’t logical. It’s not my fault if a player fails to dodge or fails to understand the game mechanics. It is the enemy players fault.

It boils down to this; “Learn To Play.”

you know what would make mes have some counter play is if you dodge, say at the time of the izerk cast time, that mes won’t create the zerk at all. With this there there would be some sort of thought going on.
I find that mes has always really been a class that doesn’t have to care about people dodging things because that phant or clone will be created regardless. Another thing is mirror blade has a fairly low cd so its not a huge deal if you miss it (or arbitrarily toss it from range) because it will be back up soon. For a skill that stacks might and vuln excessively and unblockable as well, I always thought the cd was just a bit too low.
I know the topic is mainly about PU and it doesn’t make much sense why they increased the stealth duration. Buffing a trait that was already strong doesn’t make much sense from a balance perspective. But then again Anet has always made odd changes since day one.
Basically the mesmer doesn’t get punished really for just spamming a skill with no actual thought process. The risk/reward factor is even less now after the changes.

You can easily dodge or evade the mind wrack burst. This is why some mesmers try to burst after you use up your dodges. Yes, I don’t think many mesmers care THAT much about izerker hitting as its a small part of the burst. However, they care a lot about weather the illusions hit with mind wrack. I also disagree that its not a big deal if mirror blade misses. A lot of damage comes from mirror blade. Thats why it was nerfed. I believe, for a good mesmer, a lot more thought process goes into it than you think. However, the whole frequent mantra stun casting did make it so not as much thought went into it, which yes, was a bad thing. You also obviously still want izerker to hit to get the most bang for your buck. Thats why mesmers try to cast it in stealth. Trying to get everything to hit in the setup is important. If it doesn’t and the mind wrack missis, your not going to damage shatter for at least another 12 seconds. Your also not going to have as powerful of a burst setup for at least another 20 seconds. In this time frame, its very easy to at least bring them to low health so that they run or kite away. Not to mention both mirror blade and phantasmal berserker are both easily telegraphed skills.

In all honesty the only thing I think really needs to be done for mesmer is PU getting reverted back to 50% duration. Buffing it to 100% Stealth duration was just a really unnecessary buff. Mesmer is pretty kitten low risk atm if you run PU power shatter, lots of time to sit in stealth and rewarded for it with RNG boons, helping ease pressure off yourself and keeping your self safe while CDs come off.

@Ithilwen
Just because mesmers have been somehow underpowered for long time (were they?), it doesn’t mean they are free to become overpowered now. This has nothing in common with balance, and we would like to play a more-or-less balanced game.

Devs took a big step with new trait changes, what created tons of new problems, not only with mesmers. Hopefully they could bring a balance patch soon to stop people from facepalming and quitting PvP.

I’d trade both Prismatic Understanding and Confounding Suggestions for my old Mirror Blade back any day of the kitten week.

Dagins.5163:

@Ithilwen
Just because mesmers have been somehow underpowered for long time (were they?), it doesn’t mean they are free to become overpowered now. This has nothing in common with balance, and we would like to play a more-or-less balanced game.

Devs took a big step with new trait changes, what created tons of new problems, not only with mesmers. Hopefully they could bring a balance patch soon to stop people from facepalming and quitting PvP.

Mes was never underpowered, it just had a direct hard counter with thieves since day one (which tbh sort of kept them in check)

Theives also gain bonuses from stealth. For example, they can remove conditions in stealth. They can also go into stealth until their initiative buffs up again.

Xstein.2187:

Theives also gain bonuses from stealth. For example, they can remove conditions in stealth. They can also go into stealth until their initiative buffs up again.

xstein…youre a little kid in your arguements…no joke! anyway thief has no invuln spam thief get’s revealed on attack…clones/phantasms do insane damage for …clones/phantasms and mesmer stays in stealth… ik it goes for ranger and pet too….but pls can we compare those…no we cant. mesmer is stupendously OP and needs to lose alot of damage output or alot of its stealth

“However mesmers can burst from range in stealth?”
This is wrong on a lot of levels.
If mesmer bursts from stealth here are all the mistakes he did:
1) Mirror blade won’t bounce -> Loss of around 2K damage + 3 might and 3 vuln on you which further decreases damage
2) Mind wrack only hits from the 1 clone that spawned instead of from you as well -> Loss of around 2-4k damage
3) PLENTY of time for the enemy to dodge it -> High possibility of the entire “burst” to be avoided.
So the thing is, if you can’t react to a mirror blade from range, then maybe PvP is not for you and I don’t mean this to be insultive or anything, that is really easy to avoid.
You may say “oh well he will mantra stun me”. Stun break into dodge but honestly, the amount of damage it will do if he range mind wracks you is just low that its almost no big deal unless you’re a zerk class and you’ve gotta watch out for all damage that is being applied to you.

“Not to mention when they go stealth, they have clones and phastasm doing damage to you?”
Clones don’t actually do any damage, their attacks do like 1 damage literally
Phantasms can be a pain but the thing is if the mesmer goes stealth, you can kill the phantasm in 2 autoattacks instead of just standing still.

And the reason mesmer has all those invulns ect is because without them mesmer is basially dead. If you forced the mesmer to use blink and distortion he doesn’t have anything left to live. Look at him and keep notice of when he uses those and after he does you can just go full offensive on him and there is nothing he will be able to do.

Also mesmer has like 1/5th the stealth of thief. You only have two – Decoy and Pledge and both last around 6 seconds, so while it may be a longer duration you can only use it for yourself and can only access it 2 times. Meanwhile thief can stack up to 10s AoE stealth then after the 10s is done they can put down shadow refuge and stealth their whole team again and after that they can re-do the 10s stealth via cluster bombs, they can also give themselves over 10s stealth in really short periods of time so I think that its silly to complain about mesmer stealth.

Velimere.7685:

I’d trade both Prismatic Understanding and Confounding Suggestions for my old Mirror Blade back any day of the kitten week.

This. (+ Chaotic Dampening, but that might just be me)

Jurica.1742:

“However mesmers can burst from range in stealth?”
This is wrong on a lot of levels.
If mesmer bursts from stealth here are all the mistakes he did:
1) Mirror blade won’t bounce -> Loss of around 2K damage + 3 might and 3 vuln on you which further decreases damage
2) Mind wrack only hits from the 1 clone that spawned instead of from you as well -> Loss of around 2-4k damage
3) PLENTY of time for the enemy to dodge it -> High possibility of the entire “burst” to be avoided.

We have a stealthed mesmer that see you running like a chicken with low HP, Mirror Blade+Mind Wrack+procs easily 6k dmg… This is what people is complaining about

So, you are complaining about 2 skills + random procs doing barely the damage a thief does with its auto attack?

Jurica.1742:

“However mesmers can burst from range in stealth?”
This is wrong on a lot of levels.
If mesmer bursts from stealth here are all the mistakes he did:
1) Mirror blade won’t bounce -> Loss of around 2K damage + 3 might and 3 vuln on you which further decreases damage
2) Mind wrack only hits from the 1 clone that spawned instead of from you as well -> Loss of around 2-4k damage
3) PLENTY of time for the enemy to dodge it -> High possibility of the entire “burst” to be avoided.
So the thing is, if you can’t react to a mirror blade from range, then maybe PvP is not for you and I don’t mean this to be insultive or anything, that is really easy to avoid.
You may say “oh well he will mantra stun me”. Stun break into dodge but honestly, the amount of damage it will do if he range mind wracks you is just low that its almost no big deal unless you’re a zerk class and you’ve gotta watch out for all damage that is being applied to you.

“Not to mention when they go stealth, they have clones and phastasm doing damage to you?”
Clones don’t actually do any damage, their attacks do like 1 damage literally
Phantasms can be a pain but the thing is if the mesmer goes stealth, you can kill the phantasm in 2 autoattacks instead of just standing still.

And the reason mesmer has all those invulns ect is because without them mesmer is basially dead. If you forced the mesmer to use blink and distortion he doesn’t have anything left to live. Look at him and keep notice of when he uses those and after he does you can just go full offensive on him and there is nothing he will be able to do.

Also mesmer has like 1/5th the stealth of thief. You only have two – Decoy and Pledge and both last around 6 seconds, so while it may be a longer duration you can only use it for yourself and can only access it 2 times. Meanwhile thief can stack up to 10s AoE stealth then after the 10s is done they can put down shadow refuge and stealth their whole team again and after that they can re-do the 10s stealth via cluster bombs, they can also give themselves over 10s stealth in really short periods of time so I think that its silly to complain about mesmer stealth.

Also stop using the word “spam” to get your point across because nothing in this game can be spammed except mantras (pre patch) and thief skills.

burst ignore every burst every 9.5 sec, is spam.