Why do "on swap" sigils even exist ?
passive yes.
unpredictable not so much
unbalanced pretty much
engi/ele/war can activate weapon swap sigils the most often. they are also the 3 classes that tend to run celestial because battle sigil is a big part of might stacking which is required for celestial to work well.
With runes of the warrior, every profession can activate on-swap sigils on cooldown. Not advocating Rune of the Warrior however.
Also, not all of them are used passively. Ranger Gs with Intelligence comes to mind as an example.
passive yes.
unpredictable not so much
unbalanced pretty much
engi/ele/war can activate weapon swap sigils the most often. they are also the 3 classes that tend to run celestial because battle sigil is a big part of might stacking which is required for celestial to work well.
Pls tell me about how predictable a doom/geomancy weapon swap is
Might stacking are better for more sustain-type classes while air/fire is for burst, etc
Sigils serve their purpose.
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Pls tell me about how predictable a doom/geomancy weapon swap is
‘Swap whenever possible’ to apply sigil effect, pretty predictable.
They’re passive.
That is true for every. single. sigil. In fact the on Swap sigils are some of the least passive sigils.
Unpredictable.
Unpredictable only for you in the same way that any other instant-ability is unpredictable for you. And with enough skill to “read” the fight it can be predicted. There are far less predictable sigils around.
Unbalanced.
Because you say so?
Its funny how people in this thread are already pointing to Sigil of Battle so quickly. A sigil no one complained about until the big overhaul back in April. The overhaul that introduced the new Rune of Strength along with the Celestial amulet but didn’t actually change sigil of battle.
And yet people still insist things like sigil of battle are now broken, while the new celestial amulet or the new runes of strength are fine. Even though both of those are equally or more prevalent.
Pls tell me about how predictable a doom/geomancy weapon swap is
‘Swap whenever possible’ to apply sigil effect, pretty predictable.
Swap whenever possible what?
Those sigils still have a 9 sec cooldown. You can’t escape that.
Personal opinion on the matter is that I find anything that directly harms your opponent to be a bit to strong.
I think things like
Renewal, Energy, Leeching, and Cleansing are more or less fine, none of them really screw over your opponent directly, and really only give the player a few more options in a fight, which is more or less fine considering none of them are particularity predictable, none of them are going to put your opponent into a terrible position.
But then we get things like.. Hydromancy, doom, and intelligence all of which can cause massive pressure on a target, I find need to be either looked at or removed. Also with the abundance of condi builds the default durations are never what they are (except for maybe Hydro).
Sigil of battle I find is very much in the gray area. I don’t think it’s thaaat bad but with the abundance of might stacking builds and how strong it can be I find in the current state of the game to be a bit too strong. But I think class based might stacking needs to be looked at, more so than this sigil.
As to why they exist? Flavor? The games attempt to give the illusion of choice.
BTW I’m totally on board nerfing the use of fire and air together. But that change needs to be made around the same time as celestial and might stacking tweaks.
PS. As a side thought.. What if sigils were class restricted akin to how weapons are. For example, Thieves and Rangers can’t use Energy due to the already strong access to evades, however both can still use intelligence and doom?
Or weapon specific like… you can’t put doom in a pistol. But Geomancy and leeching are up for grabs. (I’m using topic related sigils but I’m referring to ALL sigils.)
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
(edited by Daishi.6027)
They’re passive.
That is true for every. single. sigil. In fact the on Swap sigils are some of the least passive sigils.
Unpredictable.
Unpredictable only for you in the same way that any other instant-ability is unpredictable for you. And with enough skill to “read” the fight it can be predicted. There are far less predictable sigils around.
Unbalanced.
Because you say so?
Its funny how people in this thread are already pointing to Sigil of Battle so quickly. A sigil no one complained about until the big overhaul back in April. The overhaul that introduced the new Rune of Strength along with the Celestial amulet but didn’t actually change sigil of battle.
And yet people still insist things like sigil of battle are now broken, while the new celestial amulet or the new runes of strength are fine. Even though both of those are equally or more prevalent.
Ye most sigils are passive, but at least air/fire needs u to invest in crit in order to be useful.
Current “meta sigils” are just " swap as soon as possible".
There’s nothing active in getting might for 20 seconds on weap swap, neither on proccing bleeds/poison on weapon swap.
Intelligence is the only decent one, and it’s broken too.
Other instant abilities are given to certain professions for balance reasons ( and are actually quite balanced, even fresh air burst which is the most imba), weapon swap is available to ALL PROFESSIONS, regardless of balance.
They’re so balanced that current broken kitten = 3 classes abusing weapon swap.
Wow.
Balance.
let’s not forget how often those 3 classes can swap weapons
[Teef] guild :>
They’re passive.
Unpredictable.
Unbalanced.
Pls explain.
active, because you need to swap weapons.
predictable. because the sigils activate when they swap weapons.
balanced. because i use on swap sigils and others still can put me down. if the on swap sigils are truly unbalanced, my characters using on swap sigils will never die, always one shot others. so the on swap sigils are balanced.
They’re so balanced that current broken kitten = 3 classes abusing weapon swap.
not abusing, but working as intended.
elementalist can only equip 1 weapon set.
engineers can only have other weapon sets if they equip kits on their utility skill slots.
warriors are supposed to swap weapons fast, deal with it.
they don’t have illusions, minions, pets, easy access to stealth etc.
i always see you complaining on the forums, do you complain because you do not play these 3 professions often?
They’re passive.
Unpredictable.
Unbalanced.
Pls explain.
The only one that is really passive is Sigil of Battle and also to some degree Energy
Geo/Hydro are “unpredictable” but definitely not passive.
Leeching and Doom and Intelligence are decently balanced imo. Doom is really not that fantastic, it’s just we are in a meta where there is so much ridiculous healing going out that poison becomes essential.
My vote for most unbalanced is Battle, which should literally just be entirely changed. It’s either going to be required on 3 classes, or totally underpowered.
I think that if Fire/Air were changed, then Geo could also be looked at and given a ‘tell’ where the spike effect gradually comes out of the ground over 1/2 second after swapping and is then dodgeable. Right now though, good luck killing a s/d thief without instant on-swap sigils lol
They’re passive.
Unpredictable.
Unbalanced.
Pls explain.
All the sigils are passive. On swap are the least passive of the sigils actually.
-Condi duration = passive
-Permanent bonus = passive
-On kill = passivel
-On critical hit = passive
-On weapon swap = passive
-On hit passive = passive
What do you suggest remove the sigils and runes and destroy mmorpg customization?
Also runes are all passive too.
passive yes.
unpredictable not so much
unbalanced pretty much
engi/ele/war can activate weapon swap sigils the most often. they are also the 3 classes that tend to run celestial because battle sigil is a big part of might stacking which is required for celestial to work well.
Pls tell me about how predictable a doom/geomancy weapon swap is
when they swap weapons, a doom sigil icon will appear, then you will know their next attack will apply poison.
as for geomancy sigil, there is a huge effect, like rocks shooting out from the ground, just remove the bleeding when it happens.
They’re passive.
Unpredictable.
Unbalanced.
Pls explain.
Fire and Air sigils say hi
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
war wepaon swap is so predictable
OP and Co,
Are you aware that “on swap” sigils have a 9 second cooldown?
Are you aware that standard weapon swap cooldowns are 10 seconds.?
Are you aware of the implication that all classes can utilise “on swap” effectively?
OP and Co,
Are you aware that “on swap” sigils have a 9 second cooldown?
Are you aware that standard weapon swap cooldowns are 10 seconds.?
Are you aware of the implication that all classes can utilise “on swap” effectively?
not true really
simple example
let’s assume thief is using on swap weapons; let’s assume thief just swapped weapon and got proc… realistically thief will stay in main weapon set for quite long time (in any case way longer than 10 sec) because of the way weapon sets are balanced and swapping weapons again just for proc will probably get them killed or put at least in quite undesirable position… point is, in 1 min fight he probably will get 1-2 procs off
engis/eles/wars swap weapon very often by design, meaning they mostlikely won’t stay in same weapon set for extended period of time thus will get more procs (probably all 6 in 1 min fight) in given time than thief that has to stay in main weapon set… again all because of crappy balance between class mechanics/weapon sets
so taken current state of game into account, “all classes can utilise on swap effectively” is plain lie
[Teef] guild :>
(edited by Cynz.9437)
OP and Co,
Are you aware that “on swap” sigils have a 9 second cooldown?
Are you aware that standard weapon swap cooldowns are 10 seconds.?
Are you aware of the implication that all classes can utilise “on swap” effectively?
not true really
simple example
let’s assume thief is using on swap weapons; let’s assume thief just swapped weapon and got proc… realistically thief will stay in main weapon set for quite long time (in any case way longer than 10 sec) because of the way weapon sets are balanced and swapping weapons again just for proc will probably get them killed or put at least in quite undesirable position… point is, in 1 min fight he probably will get 1-2 procs offengis/eles/wars swap weapon very often by design, meaning they mostlikely won’t stay in same weapon set for extended period of time thus will get more procs (probably all 6 in 1 min fight) in given time than thief that has to stay in main weapon set… again all because of crappy balance between class mechanics/weapon sets
so taken current state of game into account, “all classes can utilise on swap effectively” is plain lie
thief, by design, can function properly even without constantly swapping weapons.
ele, engi, war need to swap often in order to function properly.
it is balanced.
OP and Co,
Are you aware that “on swap” sigils have a 9 second cooldown?
Are you aware that standard weapon swap cooldowns are 10 seconds.?
Are you aware of the implication that all classes can utilise “on swap” effectively?
not true really
simple example
let’s assume thief is using on swap weapons; let’s assume thief just swapped weapon and got proc… realistically thief will stay in main weapon set for quite long time (in any case way longer than 10 sec) because of the way weapon sets are balanced and swapping weapons again just for proc will probably get them killed or put at least in quite undesirable position… point is, in 1 min fight he probably will get 1-2 procs offengis/eles/wars swap weapon very often by design, meaning they mostlikely won’t stay in same weapon set for extended period of time thus will get more procs (probably all 6 in 1 min fight) in given time than thief that has to stay in main weapon set… again all because of crappy balance between class mechanics/weapon sets
so taken current state of game into account, “all classes can utilise on swap effectively” is plain lie
thief, by design, can function properly even without constantly swapping weapons.
ele, engi, war need to swap often in order to function properly.
it is balanced.
wooooooshhhhhh
[Teef] guild :>
Your thief would get more mileage from “on crit” sigils most likely.
Different sigils synergise more effectively with different builds.
Technically, every class can utilise “on-swap” sigils.
Just because a class/build other than your own can utilise them more effectively does not make something OP.
Do consider that the alternatives to “on swap” sigils are also very effective.
You must admit, this thread does very much read like the typical “yours is OP, mine is fine” circle-jerk mentality prevalent in PvP forums…
(edited by Brew Pinch.5731)
They’re passive.
Unpredictable.
Unbalanced.
Pls explain.
If you removed all passive skills in the game, you’d see a bunch of people standing around looking at each other
You know what else is passive? Mesmer clone when dodging.
You know what else is passive? Mesmer clone when dodging.
to be fair, that is considered “active” since the mesmer needs to “actively” dodge before a clone is summoned after the “active” dodge.
Hmmm… well….
Really, the entire game would need to be redesigned if every little “passive” thing were to be removed. RNG and therefore precision would have to be removed in its entirety and every skill would have to be given a precondition in order to receive bonus damage (flanking, range requirements, condition or CC requirements, etc). Then, passive “on crit” effects could only happen through predictable, active gameplay. You also can’t not have skills that passively enhance the benefits of other skills, like cooldown reductions and percentage damage increases. You would be left with nearly no combat modifiers to even alter base gameplay, which would nearly void the investment system outside of stat increases.
Really though, it comes down to a design level “issue” where the game allows too many random factors to greatly influence the possible outcomes.
However, I’d personally consider the “on swap” sigils to be the least problematic of the games RNG or “lack of competitive nature” issues. Your swap set has to be advantageous to swap to at the given time in order to take advantage of the swap sigil, or else you are making a disadvantageous swap for a sigil effect that could truthfully not be worth the weapon swap and it could cost you the game/fight/etc.
That stance is of course “glaring imbalances” aside. I think that it should be made a baseline default rule that weapon swap sigil effects should only last as long as the 10 second cooldown period until the next weapon swap is ready (Doom sigil and Battle Sigil are prime main offenders of this, for instance).
www.twitch.tv/itsJROH For stream, stream schedule, other streamers, builds, etc
https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
(edited by jcbroe.4329)
weapon swap sigil effects should only last as long as the 10 second cooldown period until the next weapon swap is ready (Doom sigil and Battle Sigil are prime main offenders of this, for instance).
what are you talking about? doom sigil poison only last 6 seconds, and can be removed.
“Your next attack after you swap to this weapon while in combat inflicts poison (6 seconds).
(Cooldown: 9 Seconds)”
battle sigil gives 3 stacks of might which last 20 seconds but the might boon can be removed as well.
all talk about sigils being overpowered is not true at all because both conditions and boons can be removed.
weapon swap sigil effects should only last as long as the 10 second cooldown period until the next weapon swap is ready (Doom sigil and Battle Sigil are prime main offenders of this, for instance).
what are you talking about? doom sigil poison only last 6 seconds, and can be removed.
“Your next attack after you swap to this weapon while in combat inflicts poison (6 seconds).
(Cooldown: 9 Seconds)”battle sigil gives 3 stacks of might which last 20 seconds but the might boon can be removed as well.
all talk about sigils being overpowered is not true at all because both conditions and boons can be removed.
Sorry, I was referring to the actual period in which the actual swap remains capable of being applied, not the poison itself. You can actually swap to the doom set, get the proc active, and then not have to activate again until another full weapon swap plus (cba to wiki the time in which it lasts).
www.twitch.tv/itsJROH For stream, stream schedule, other streamers, builds, etc
https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
weapon swap sigil effects should only last as long as the 10 second cooldown period until the next weapon swap is ready (Doom sigil and Battle Sigil are prime main offenders of this, for instance).
what are you talking about? doom sigil poison only last 6 seconds, and can be removed.
“Your next attack after you swap to this weapon while in combat inflicts poison (6 seconds).
(Cooldown: 9 Seconds)”battle sigil gives 3 stacks of might which last 20 seconds but the might boon can be removed as well.
all talk about sigils being overpowered is not true at all because both conditions and boons can be removed.
Sorry, I was referring to the actual period in which the actual swap remains capable of being applied, not the poison itself. You can actually swap to the doom set, get the proc active, and then not have to activate again until another full weapon swap plus (cba to wiki the time in which it lasts).
sorry but i still dun get what you are trying to say.
but if my warrior swapped to doom sigil weapon, and i have not applied doom yet, the doom sigil icon would not go away.
and if i swap to my leech sigil weapon before the poison from doom sigil is applied, the leech sigil icon will never appear after the swap.
weapon swap sigil effects should only last as long as the 10 second cooldown period until the next weapon swap is ready (Doom sigil and Battle Sigil are prime main offenders of this, for instance).
what are you talking about? doom sigil poison only last 6 seconds, and can be removed.
“Your next attack after you swap to this weapon while in combat inflicts poison (6 seconds).
(Cooldown: 9 Seconds)”battle sigil gives 3 stacks of might which last 20 seconds but the might boon can be removed as well.
all talk about sigils being overpowered is not true at all because both conditions and boons can be removed.
Sorry, I was referring to the actual period in which the actual swap remains capable of being applied, not the poison itself. You can actually swap to the doom set, get the proc active, and then not have to activate again until another full weapon swap plus (cba to wiki the time in which it lasts).
sorry but i still dun get what you are trying to say.
but if my warrior swapped to doom sigil weapon, and i have not applied doom yet, the doom sigil icon would not go away.
and if i swap to my leech sigil weapon before the poison from doom sigil is applied, the leech sigil icon will never appear after the swap.
The window in which doom sigil allows to apply poison lasts longer than when the next default weapon swap cooldown ends.
As opposed to what I’m saying which is that doom sigil should only be available to apply on the weapon set currently being swapped to, and not to the other weaponset equipped (unless you are a class that can bypass the default weaponswap timer).
www.twitch.tv/itsJROH For stream, stream schedule, other streamers, builds, etc
https://www.youtube.com/user/JRoeboat
“On swap” sigils least passive.
All sigils mostly unpredictable, except true passive sigils like Force. But this sigils you just can’t see anyway. And weapon swap can be predicted way more than procs air/fire.
Balanced very well. Maybe only sigil of battle close to OP, but problem not with sigil – runes with +30-45% to duration and celestial stats make this sigil so strong.