Guild Wars 2

With all the insane megaburst going around (mainly from thieves) that is capable of one-shotting anything that isnt a bunker why do people complain about bunkers?

Surely they are a necessary counter to the current gibfest. I got sick of being blown up within 2 sec of showing my face by thieves so today I was trying out ele/guardian bunker builds and even tho I get alot less glory while playing them I find it WAY more fun.

You can help your team, you can CC people, revive allies. Why do people complain about support being a viable role?

Is it because of all the glass builds that are upset that there is actually something in the game they cant just nuke down in 2 seconds…

People have to put effort in and pay attention to kill bunkers, and be at least somewhat of a decent spec for killing them. Apparently people don’t like paying attention to what skills the bunker uses before using all their offensive cooldowns. YOU MEAN THERE IS SOMEONE I CANT FACEROLL AND KILL? Too hard. Nerf pls.

I miss the days when people would attempt to learn from their mistakes and failures in PvP.
“Oh, he cleansed all of my conditions after I blew my cooldown to stack 20bleeds.. maybe I should wait until he uses that.”
“What the hell, this guardian just blocked 30 hits of my quickness burst. I guess I can’t use it until he uses that and has no endurance(which is a heal)”

Also, condition necros auto-win bunkers. Pity that necros die so fast to all the burst builds lol.

Bunkers need fixing, but so do thieves. You can’t allow these builds to ruin the gameplay of people not playing one of these 2 types of builds on the basis that they counter each other. Extremes of the build spectrum need some looking into. Balanced builds make fights much more interesting, fair, and fun.

the game right now is only balanced around thieves and bunkers lol … There is almost no place for the other professions and hardly NO way for the people that would like to play any profession the balanced way… as it stands now we got Glass cannons or bunkers and that’s it … nothing between

People always say that necros counter bunkers. I believe the game should be 1v1 balanced, but if it’s not, then bunkers should at least be vulnerable to a lot more than just one out of the 8 professions.

Bunkers are completely counterable, just like insta-gib thieves are. It’s mostly due to people not adept at timing, or carrying a lack of CC moves in favor of increasing their standard damage output.

Condition rangers beat Guardian bunkers, but might struggle more with Engineer… Engineer bunkers might struggle to hold off a class that a Guardian might well shrug off

All bunkers need to be able to use their utilities to be effective, so a well coordinated team of 2 can literally down a bunker in less than 10 seconds simply by interrupting big moves or stun-lock.

It seems to me most of the people complaining about bunkers would rather not have to put this time or effort into it.

Umweltplakette.2109:

the game right now is only balanced around thieves and bunkers lol … There is almost no place for the other professions and hardly NO way for the people that would like to play any profession the balanced way… as it stands now we got Glass cannons or bunkers and that’s it … nothing between

shaolin.9716:

Bunkers need fixing, but so do thieves. You can’t allow these builds to ruin the gameplay of people not playing one of these 2 types of builds on the basis that they counter each other. Extremes of the build spectrum need some looking into. Balanced builds make fights much more interesting, fair, and fun.

Sounds to me like they need to fix the everything in between, not bring down Thieves and Bunkers to levels of “lol no one can do anything”

Sorry to burst your bubble about “balanced” but you can’t be expected to best a build that specializes in an area with a balanced one.

This game having no “roles” seems to have disillusioned people into thinking you should be able to do anything, just as well as anyone else. That simply isn’t true. If you build to be prepared against everything, you will end up being able to be subpar everywhere. It’d be like taking talent trees half way up for all the trees. You’d be able to do a lot in many different places, but then end up being kittened at all of them.

You just simply cannot prepare for everything. Decide how you want to play, make a build centered around it and play around with it. Depending on what you run into, modify the build to compensate. It isn’t that hard. Know your build and know when you can’t take on a situation. If you know your build is susceptible to conditions then start running if there are a ton of condition users while your removal is down.

people complain about bunkers and thieves because thats all you need to dominate tpvp. add a few mesmers.

They complain because you can play at your very best, time your attacks/blocks/dodges to perfection know the other persons class abilities and when to hit and when to not hit, yet it will make no difference because of sheer class mechanics.

That person will win because he specced x points into x line and took x weapon spec, it has nothing to do with his personal skill, the spec is overpoweringly durable.

No way this can become an e-sport with this happening. You know why LoL is so successful? It’s because you never see the same rotation of champions for every team.

Sure they ban certain classes – like Alistair (who is highly resilient, has mobility,cc heals….hmm..almost bunker like…, and shen (can teleport to where he is needed….hmm..teleport….which class can teleport). But overall you see different variations in who picks what, and classes you thought where underpowered appearing in final matches. That’s the difference.

All you see now is the same classes in every pvp match. All assuran as a rule.

People want to see a good fight/tactics to beat a class. No one wants to see an elementalist dance around for 10 minutes as two people cant even touch him and he doesnt even have to target anyone to achieve this.

Whatever happened to “let the metagame develop”?

Did that only apply when people were complaining about insane burst DPS?

Well guess what. The meta developed. People moved on and countered DPS burst. It’s kind of ironic that the guys who were yelling about the meta are now the ones clamoring for nerfs after their crutch specs got countered.

ehtom.5047:

Also, condition necros auto-win bunkers. Pity that necros die so fast to all the burst builds lol.

Except half of necros key abilities are bugged so badly that they are literally a self debuff on a cooldown.

Also good luck stacking any meaningful conditions on a guardian that removes 2 every 10 seconds, 1 every 20, and 3 twice per combat.

Or on an elementalist that loses 3 every 5 seconds from attunement swapping + w/e.

I love how the most common argument that bunkers are fine is ‘BECAUSE THIEVES!’

If that’s not a telling commentary on the state of the game, I don’t know what is.

On my bunker, playing at my very worst forces other players to play at their very best. And I still win half the time.

That’s the problem.

@phaeris… LoL is not balanced, I dont know how anyone with knowledge of that game can claim it is. There are 12 or so champions which are picked every game because they are better. Just check out a pro player’s opinion from time to time: http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-lists/competitive-tier-list. That game is successful specifically because Riot caters to casual players so well and its comp scene exists purely because the game is so large.

If Riot was balancing this game they would do the following:

1. Nerf thieves into unplayability because of complaints from most players. (see Eve from LoL).
2. Give mesmers a slight nerf.
3. Nerf warriors as unfun.

Only then would they start to consider tweaks to things that only tournament players complain about… LoL.

Neither Bunkers nor glass-cannon Thieves need fix.

They’re just 2 parts of a larger rock-paper-scissor circle.

This circle currently gives most professions a spot to counter a special type of enemy.
Thus making many classes (7/8)viable in their current state.
————————————————————————————————————————
-They only class which doesn’t really fit into this are Rangers, there is nothing they’re better in then any other class.
-Enges need some urgent bug-fixes though.
————————————————————————————————————————
E/:
Balancing wise I’ld like to keep the currently viable builds.
Instead of nerfing those I’ld like to see buffs aimed at currently less viable build-paths and traitlines.

Ranger spirits for example are just completely unusable in their current state.

That’s 26 players on first tier….that’s pretty kitten impressive for a non balanced game. ( Not sure why nocturne isn’t first tier…). Impossible to balance 60+ classes….(even then in randoms i see people doing amazingly well with some awful toons).

That’s why TSM used a tier 2 toon (kayle) so incredibly well in the last major finals. And Dr Mundo now 2nd tier! He was 4th-5th tier 12 months or so ago…(and as I recall he didn’t really recieve any major changes)

There are 7 classes in GW2 to balance yet 3 of them are must haves in tpvp and those with certain builds.

In Dota2/LoL I can win games with anything at the level of average games, it means nothing whatsoever.

I agree with what you are saying that the balance in gw2 needs some work, though I dont think tpvp is mesmer/thief/guardian or go home. Other than thieves I dont think the other two are even particularly imba.

Guardian: Other profs can bunker, like ele/necro/engi. Vulnerable to condition damage.
Mesmer: Supreme mobility however only really bring their utility to a teamfight. They cant defend a node anywhere near as well as a bunker and die fast to multiple attackers.

+1 for the correct recognition that bunkers were a reaction to powerful burst builds. I’m fine with seeing some adjustments, but these accusations that people who choose to play point defense are “ruining” a point-defense game is…odd.

It’s all glass cannon burst builds that are irked people don’t just keel over and die for them.

If there were no bunkers, there’d be no anti-bunkers, which generally are beaten by burst builds.

Essentially right now we have a rock, paper, scissors lineup and scissors is really angry about the existence of rock.

You guys seem to forget that there are builds out there that aren’t glass cannon or bunker and get rolled on both ends.

If a glass cannon can’t kill a bunker, what hope does a non-glass cannon? If only a bunker can survive glass-cannon burst, what hope does anyone who isn’t bunkering?

There’s more than just two extremes, and the problem is that everyone in the middle gets boned.

Um… conditions damage is what owns bunkers. Nobody plays that precisely because condition damage gets completely smashed by glass before they can do their damage.

Also, one prof shouldnt be able to quickly take out another prof that it 100% traited for defence. That would completely nullify defensive builds. It should take two people a while and should only be somewhat quick with 3 people.

I don’t think you quite understand how application of resources works in a 5v5 game focussed on point control.

If you need 3 guys to take out a bunker before his backup can arrive, how do the other 2 members of your team deal with the 4 members of the enemy team that have free reign? Oh, right, you have to run a bunker in your team to even the balance.

Mandatory classes and/or builds in the metagame ftw.

You should have to have a defensive spec on your team in tournaments. I dont see a problem with this given that half the prof’s can build as a bunker.

Arc.9374:

Mandatory classes and/or builds in the metagame ftw.

The game involves capturing and defending points. Therefore it is going to be mandatory to have some builds that deal damage and some builds that can withstand damage. Obviously.

Why are you irked that you have to have a bunker to win but not irked that you need to deal damage to win?

Two sides of the same coin as far as I’m concerned.

Defensive builds should make fights longer, not nearly impossible for the opponent to win that fight in 1v1.