Guild Wars 2

Honestly, why? If you get destroyed by a certain class you’ve never played why do you rush to the forums and complain about it?

There are imbalance issues, but to complain about them without knowing first hand the hows and whys?

Its the same in LoL, people complaining about certain champs being op and never having played them, then playing them and changing arguments to “OP in the right hands”. That’s why at different ELOs different champs get banned.

Clarification.

All I want is responses from people who do this and the reasons why.

Like I said referring LoL, try out the classes and make decisions based off first hand knowledge. Yes, there is balance issues but how can you resolve them without proper knowledge of them?

None is complaining about professions without playing them.
Most of people that complain are mostly Necromancers and Elementalists who had spent hours and hours on they professions, then rerolled these classes and performed way better without having any experience at them.
That’s at least what I’ve learnt in my experience and what is happening in the Necro forum.

Most of people that are complaining about these professions are actually playing them to be competitive in PvP, because this is the only way to be effectively competitive in PvP.

Sorrow,
if you play every class too, them I applaud you, however there are many who don’t and complain about them. Those are the people I’m actually referring to and questioning the logic on this subject.

Visualize.4319:

Sorrow,
if you play every class too, them I applaud you, however there are many who don’t and complain about them. Those are the people I’m actually referring to and questioning the logic on this subject.

The point is that none is doing that.
Everyone who complains about these classes being overpowered, as I said, are people who played another profession and then rerolled to one of them to be competitive in sPvP and now they are.

If you are waiting for someone who is criticizing these professions without even playing them, you are waiting for a ghost.

I made a warrior this afternoon. Glass cannon type build (1k tougness and 23k HP). Ripped everyone apart in sPvP. Easy mode class.

Bull-Charge —> Hundred Blades, most classes already down to 25% HP or lower.

Edit: Also made a thief the other day. It’s very easy mode too.

Starting out with dagger cripple, a couple death blossoms or a 10k + backstab, spam heartseeker. Bye Bye.

My main class is lvl 80 necromancer, but after seeing what thieves and warriors can do I have created them myself to try. It was like I installed a new game – you don’t need to have experience with your profession, you don’t need to plan your attack, most of the time you don’t need to know what opponents are doing, you even don’t have to have a perfect build for your weapons that you use, just press few buttons and win (it is especially in 8×8, not so much, but still possible in tournaments). But in my opinion these classes are not overpowered, its the necromancer that is weak, so I never complain in X are OP threads, but I write a lot in necro sub forum.

sorrow.2364:

The point is that none is doing that.
Everyone who complains about these classes being overpowered, as I said, are people who played another profession and then rerolled to one of them to be competitive in sPvP and now they are.

If you are waiting for someone who is criticizing these professions without even playing them, you are waiting for a ghost.

I love your enthusiasm and idealism but stating anything in absolutes is childish, nothing is backed by your claims. You simply tell yourself one thing and refuse any other input that could deviate from your own ideals. Frightful way to conceive beliefs/opinions.

the real question is, why do people that only play one of the aforementioned “OP” classes keep telling us how they are not OP?

shouldnt they have played all the other classes to get a proper perspective on their real performance level before deciding they are not OP and its a L2P issue?

I used to main a necro. Then rerolled warrior, and I have used extensively mesmer and thief in sPvP. hence, I have some proper perspective.

I can swear to god that 3 classes are an effing billion light years ahead of the necro in pretty much absolutly everything. the necro lags SO HARD behind that you have to actually see it to believe it.

Visualize.4319:

I love your enthusiasm and idealism but stating anything in absolutes is childish, nothing is backed by your claims. You simply tell yourself one thing and refuse any other input that could deviate from your own ideals. Frightful way to conceive beliefs/opinions.

I’m talking considering my experience. None I’ve talked in this forum is stating X profession is OP before actually playing it and as now, it looks way more accurate than your considerations.
Sure there are players who joined the chorus without playing that professions, but they are a minority and probably won’t answer your question so they are insignificant. Focusing on this minority when there are bunch of players that actually tried these professions before complaining is pointless.

I agree completely with Lukin. My Elementalist is terribly weak in PvP so what I did? I created Warrior and Thief – first level – first, good rating, build from gw2build.com and in the end I had much greater impact at sPvP than with my Elementalist, in which my spells, skills and cooldawns I know by hard.. Monkey will play Warrior and Thief well in sPvP.

My class through all BWE and headstart is the Necromancer. I kept telling myself people don’t know what they’re talking about and a lot of people don’t know how to play the Necromancer yet and defending it. Tried to see the pros if they could outweigh the cons.

That notion was completely shattered as soon as I played a Mesmer.

sorrow.2364:

Visualize.4319:

Sorrow,
if you play every class too, them I applaud you, however there are many who don’t and complain about them. Those are the people I’m actually referring to and questioning the logic on this subject.

The point is that none is doing that.
Everyone who complains about these classes being overpowered, as I said, are people who played another profession and then rerolled to one of them to be competitive in sPvP and now they are.

If you are waiting for someone who is criticizing these professions without even playing them, you are waiting for a ghost.

Hi Sorrow, the ghost is just a few posts below, a post called mesmers the beat all class (or something like that).

A necro who is trying to play a healing minion build and has played Spvp for 4 hours (those are his words) , and has stacked vitality and toughness is saying that he was owned by a Mesmer who was doing 5000 dps without any clones or illusions and who didn’t Moa Morph him, (it’s half way down the post after his rant about Mao Morph), when you and I know that this is purely a L2P issue, and untrue Sorry to call you on this but there are loads of posts by people who haven’t played other classes and are just venting because they haven’t got used to the game mechancs yet. Most competitive players I know can deal with any class in tpvp as you bring the person not the class, a skilled team will always shine.

This is not a hate post I just think you are suggesting something that is untrue.

@Kryank:
Do you think that is untrue that that guy will never answer this topic?
Do you think that his rant about Moa Bird is unfounded?

By the way, I’ve stated a post later that there are people who complain without playing the profession, but they are so few to be considered insignificant. The first statement was an hyperbole.

And, of course, you really don’t need to play a mesmer to realize that Moa Morph is clearly overpowered when you are running a minion build.

@Kryank: Yes, that is the ghost … but that is only one, right? There are different levels of ignorance. The problem is not fixed by playing a class. Even worse: When are you “good enough” to judge things? I had a necro-alt but it felt like a fat joke. Having played all classes apart from warrior, I feel I can say something about where the problem is, but who really knows? (I play mesmer as main, btw)
One thing Kryank: You say there is no holy trinity? I would claim there is, even if the variables are somewhat different. That holy trinity could be made by mesmer, theif, guardian. And there is my real sadness with the state of things.

So how long do we gotta wait before we can say something? four weeks isnt enough? Will you only allow us to post on the forums about imbalances after eight weeks? twelve?

How long do you guys think it takes for people to see imbalances in a new released MMO game? Why do you all cling to the weird notion that Arenanet has made this perfect game and that all of us, the players, should be utterly incapable of seeing any faults because they shouldnt exist? There’s still a lot of fanboying and hype going around here, and frankly i think that the people who say that balance is perfect in a fresh released MMO are the ones that are not seeing things clearly enough.

There is just so much hate on these forums, I am just saying that stating things on forums that are untrue is not the way to go. Whether Mao bird is OP or not is completely subjective. And poxxia if you play Mesmer as a main you will know that in pvp the Moa morph is not nearly as effective as time warp. Yes it is a anti minion necro skill but it is well telegraphed by the animation and can only be cast once every 4 mins. And when you say ‘when are you good enough to judge things’ As I said above I am only calling people on posting things that just are not true. Using that argument I could ask you the same thing.

Let’s not get personal all I have done is prove things that people are saying that doesn’t make sense either because they are not true or just misinformed or just misunderstand what has happened, and all I have done is quote facts. I agree that moa maybe OP for some players to counter but that is a subjective issue and not an issue with the skill.

@Kryank:
I don’t see any hate here, we are just discussing.
That Moa Morph is OP isn’t subjective, it is clear and shiny that it is way too powerful. Comparing it to Time Warp isn’t a valid argument, since it is another skill that needs to work on. You are talking in your Mesmer perception, I want to invite you to try out a Necro or an Elementalist, then use their elites and their skills and realize if you are as effective as you were with your mesmer. If you are, probably the mesmer isn’t overpowered, if you aren’t it is. Most players did this and went to this conclusion.

I’ve stated just two posts ago that probably there are few people who judge without actually playing the class, but they aren’t in a number to be considered significant in any way.

It’s just like saying that because someone was born with three arms, all humans have three arms and stating that humans have two arms is incorrect.

@Kryank:
I like how you just prove the point that most people that do not see the unbalanced state of the game and rely on L2P or Build arguments to defend their position, are people that never tried in any way some of the classes that most of the people complaining on this forum play.

I play warrior (only level 68atm) my Mesmer is level 29, I have an ele, guardian and thief, I mainly pvp with my Mesmer, guardian, thief or warrior as we switch in our guild TPvP team depending on class make up. So I may not be the most experienced or best player only pvp rank 14 atm and I am open to any kind of criticism but I would like to think I have a good understanding of how pvp works. And how classes work. Obviously I have more experience with some than others, but I never claimed to be an expert of all classes or of any for that reason. All I have done is point out people’s inaccuracies, Moa is subjective some people don’t find it a problem and some do that is what is meant by subjective. However certain facts are non disputable such as cast times animations and stats. If you remove emotion from the argument the facts still remain.

Deer Areena Net,
plz nerf paper. Sizors is fine.
Thx – Rok

But in all sincerity, it really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Elies and Necros just get splattered in pvp. Now, coming from someone who’s favorite class has always been the mage archetype in many mmos, and has years experience playing them, I can tell you right now my ele just doesn’t have much of a chance in pvp. I’m not saying that other classes are OP or need nerfs, but to most people that have played the classes feel that they don’t measure up, and when a majority of you player base thinks certain classes are under powered, that’s something to take seriously. They aren’t all going to be trolls.

IMO, not being able to switch weapons is a critical design flaw. Plain and simple, if I like the staff skills in say fire and water, and the scepter/dagger skills in air and earth, not being able to switch out weapons is a huge disadvantage as it’s effectively nullifying at least half or more of my attunements, which I’m supposed to be encouraged to be switching through regularly. Being stuck with only one or two spell sets of a particular weapon combo for all of the attunements pretty much negates half of them at least. The biggest thing, however, is the lack of escapes. Clothies are squishy, they’re designed to be, and I’m fine with that and expect it. But, to balance that out, they need to have very good control effects and/or escape mechanics, and they don’t. They also need to be able to put out more damage than the other class, and likewise, they aren’t. To put it bluntly, they just don’t have enough of an edge in one particular area, to justify the extreme vulnerability they have against the other classes. Rangers, although not quite as soft, are still highly vulnerable in melee, but they have an excellent assortment of escapes, snares and control at their disposal to keep enemies at bay. Elies and Necros don’t, and so they’re just not as effective to play. I love my caster classes, but unfortunately this game will be the first time I don’t level a squishy as my main character first.

I can’t really speak about thieves since I have not pvpd on mine extensively, but the key to beating a mesmer is understanding his abilities and being able to discern him from his clones. When I started pvp as an Engineer (my first profession), Mesmers were my worst nightmare because I just didn’t know what the hell was going on with them. I decided to practice as a mesmer for a few matches, as well as to read up on their traits and popular builds (GS or staff condition builds spring to mind). As a result, I feel like I can out-play most Mesmers fairly easily now, especially those that rely on Moa (time warp is admittedly a kitten and a half, but then again the cooldown is even longer than Moa’s).

edit: all that said, I think Eles, Necros, and even Engis need some love when it comes to PvP. Rather than nerf the strong professions, I think it’s a wiser move to buff the weaker ones to be on par with them.

So, Kryank, you have played only the professions people are complaining to be overpowered and you are claiming to have an objective view of the PvP situation.

Now I’ll pointing your inaccuracy out: how can you say Moa is a subjective matter if you don’t even know whether people who are not complaining about Moa are all Mesmers and you didn’t even played all the professions which in common sense aren’t overpowered?

Feywray.4351:

Deer Areena Net,
plz nerf paper. Sizors is fine.
Thx – Rok

its more like

Deer Areena Net,
ty for yer awesum game. rok paper sizors are ferpectly balanced
signed – the 3 classes that are Bazookas

Kryank.8069:

There is just so much hate on these forums, I am just saying that stating things on forums that are untrue is not the way to go. Whether Mao bird is OP or not is completely subjective. And poxxia if you play Mesmer as a main you will know that in pvp the Moa morph is not nearly as effective as time warp. Yes it is a anti minion necro skill but it is well telegraphed by the animation and can only be cast once every 4 mins. And when you say ‘when are you good enough to judge things’ As I said above I am only calling people on posting things that just are not true. Using that argument I could ask you the same thing.

Let’s not get personal all I have done is prove things that people are saying that doesn’t make sense either because they are not true or just misinformed or just misunderstand what has happened, and all I have done is quote facts. I agree that moa maybe OP for some players to counter but that is a subjective issue and not an issue with the skill.

You get it all wrong mate Not trying to attack you in any way … relax.
I am not trying to question your ability to judge .. I am saying “maybe we are all clueless … including me”. In other words: The game is young, and we are all still fairly clueless … and a lot may change.
And no .. I don’t use Moa .. I use TW … for many reasons really.
@Sorrow: About Moa … it is an elite, it is on a 4 min cd (!!) … it can be avoided (and frankly using another cd to use this cd is just underlining this) unlike other spells … now IF it lands, shouldn’t it be powerful … in all fairness? I am not defending the state it is in, but with all the “if’s and but’s” connected to this spell, it does in my eyes deserve to be strong. I would personally prefer if it was replaced … I am not really a fan of it.

Poxxia.1547:

@Sorrow: About Moa … it is an elite, it is on a 4 min cd (!!) … it can be avoided (and frankly using another cd to use this cd is just underlining this) unlike other spells … now IF it lands, shouldn’t it be powerful … in all fairness? I am not defending the state it is in, but with all the “if’s and but’s” connected to this spell, it does in my eyes deserve to be strong. I would personally prefer if it was replaced … I am not really a fan of it.

Without considering that 180 seconds aren’t 4 minutes, the fact that it can be avoided means nothing. All skills in this game can be avoided, but only some have devastating and game breaking effects like the Moa Morph has. Also, you can’t pay a special attention to the mesmer, fearing he casts only one skill that at any time can change the battle’s outcome that, also, isn’t that easy to dodge as you think (there aren’t only 1vs1 situations when you are always on full endurance).

Making a player useless for 10 seconds, negating all the transformations, despawning all the pets all this packed in 1200 range and a low casting time is just unbalanced to the eyes of every player who isn’t using that skill and this is just a part of the overpowered parade of the mesmer. You probably don’t know any other elite than the mesmer’s ones if you think that it is ok because it is an elite, it can be avoided and has high cooldown…

In Guild Wars there was skills like that, but either they lasted only 3 seconds or disabled your skills also, while having an incredibly long casting time and very low range. People ran that kind of builds, but none claimed they were overpowered.

@sorrow, sorry mate you are just in a mood for a fight for some reason, all you have done is rant on about how OP Moa morph in threads on here and wvw, and there is no point trying to reason or have a factual discussion with you. If you feel that it’s OP that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. I have already said it may be OP to some players lets just leave it there and I refer you to my signature.

Ooops .. 3 min then. In my eyes it means a lot, that it can be avoided. Compared to TW it means a lot. There are frankly a LOT of elites and skills in general that can’t be avoided.
1vs1 or 2vs2 you should be aware of what the mesmer is throwing .. you should know the animations … I know them for pretty much anything but warriors by now.

I am just saying, that anything that takes up an elite-slot (when you compare to the vast amount of other elites out there) should be worth it. And no .. it is not a defense of Moa, and in particular not about how it affects necro’s. I DID actually have a main-alt necro (now I focus on engineer and thief .. wonder why). Stop rampaging.

And really … stop making assumptions about me … it makes you look bad in every possible way. Throwing mud at me serves no purpose other than making you look immature.
I DID play GW1 (our small guild actually did really well in tournaments back then).

Kryank.8069:

@sorrow, sorry mate you are just in a mood for a fight for some reason, all you have done is rant on about how OP Moa morph in threads on here and wvw, and there is no point trying to reason or have a factual discussion with you. If you feel that it’s OP that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. I have already said it may be OP to some players lets just leave it there and I refer you to my signature.

So the “i’m superior” tactic is the best escape from a discussion you know you have lost from the start.
Also you are confusing me with someone other, since I’ve neved posted a single message in the WvWvW forum.

What I’m saying could be an opinion if me and few other people agree with me, then the rest have different ideas. But when almost everyone who haven’t a mesmer as a main character are complaining about Moa Morph, it is enough for everyone to stop and think for a minute about THAT skill compared to the other and stop saying “it’s just an opinion, to me it’s fine”.
What about if there was an istant kill skill? What would you say if people complain about that skill? “Uh, to me it’s fine, you can dodge it. It’s your opinion”. Well, Moa Morph isn’t as far from that kind of skill as you would think and this isn’t an opinion because 10 seconds are more than enough to kill someone.

If you don’t want to see the facts, it isn’t me the problem, it’s you.

Poxxia.1547:

Ooops .. 3 min then. In my eyes it means a lot, that it can be avoided. Compared to TW it means a lot. There are frankly a LOT of elites and skills in general that can’t be avoided.
1vs1 or 2vs2 you should be aware of what the mesmer is throwing .. you should know the animations … I know them for pretty much anything but warriors by now.

I am just saying, that anything that takes up an elite-slot (when you compare to the vast amount of other elites out there) should be worth it. And no .. it is not a defense of Moa, and in particular not about how it affects necro’s. I DID actually have a main-alt necro (now I focus on engineer and thief .. wonder why). Stop rampaging.

And really … stop making assumptions about me … it makes you look bad in every possible way. Throwing mud at me serves no purpose other than making you look immature.
I DID play GW1 (our small guild actually did really well in tournaments back then).

Well, the only elite that comes in my mind that can’t be avoided is Entangle, but it isn’t as destructive as Moa is. The elites you are talking about are probably buffs, transformations or summons which doesn’t fall in our topic.

Yes, I should know the animations, but, as I said before, no other professions has a so devastating and game-breaking effect on a single skill and this is what I call unbalance. The fact is that for some people here everything is fine, Moa Morph is fine and other professions just have to L2P. Do you agree with them?

If with “throwing mud” you referred to this:

You probably don’t know any other elite than the mesmer’s ones if you think that it is ok because it is an elite, it can be avoided and has high cooldown

I don’t know how you can feel offended by this statement.
I didn’t make assumpion about you, I’ve just made an hypothetical deduction based on what you said.

They should have everyone’s personal pie chart of pvp matches played by class show up when you post.

Depends what you mean by complain, I play around 4 classes regularly, including mesmer, I don’t think someone needs to play mesmer to have a valid opinion on say whether being able to teleport the repair kit to the treb is acceptable or not.

I’d also say it can also go the other way, some people are simply children and will defend their favourite class no matter what, playing a class does not magically produce an objective, balanced and fair opinion.

@ sorrow just lols !! All you have succeeded in is impressing everyone with your ability to claim success without backing it up with any sense on fact or cohesive argument I applaud you sir!!
You are indeed a winner!!

I kinda agree with the op. Most people complaining about a certain class usually never played it themselves , they are merely having trouble with them. From their point of view that class is easy to play with no drawbacks.

If they were to play it they would see the actual drawbacks compared to the perks. I did this with the warrior class and thief and saw for myself that HS needed a nerf (A-net agreed on this) and to win on a warrior all i need to do is button smash myself to victory.

Kryank.8069:

@ sorrow just lols !! All you have succeeded in is impressing everyone with your ability to claim success without backing it up with any sense on fact or cohesive argument I applaud you sir!!
You are indeed a winner!!

What do you exactly mean with a cohesive argument?
I’ve made 6 posts trying to explain you what the situation is to the eyes of the majority of players and you keep saying “Hey, it’s subjective!”, without explaining why you think it isn’t overpowered and focusing on the “it is counterable” part, which doesn’t matter in terms of balancing.

In case you’ve missed it, this is me explaining in this topic why everyone think Moa Morph is overpowered:

Without considering that 180 seconds aren’t 4 minutes, the fact that it can be avoided means nothing. All skills in this game can be avoided, but only some have devastating and game breaking effects like the Moa Morph has. Also, you can’t pay a special attention to the mesmer, fearing he casts only one skill that at any time can change the battle’s outcome that, also, isn’t that easy to dodge as you think (there aren’t only 1vs1 situations when you are always on full endurance).
Making a player useless for 10 seconds, negating all the transformations, despawning all the pets all this packed in 1200 range and a low casting time is just unbalanced to the eyes of every player who isn’t using that skill and this is just a part of the overpowered parade of the mesmer. You probably don’t know any other elite than the mesmer’s ones if you think that it is ok because it is an elite, it can be avoided and has high cooldown…
In Guild Wars there was skills like that, but either they lasted only 3 seconds or disabled your skills also, while having an incredibly long casting time and very low range. People ran that kind of builds, but none claimed they were overpowered.

If a cohesive argument for you is me begging for forgiveness for my ignorance and asking you to give me some of your absolute knowledge of the PvP situation, than I’m not going to have a cohesive argument with you.

I will repeat what I said any times earlier it may be OP to some players, but that is not what started this you said that everyone who complains on the forums has played all the classes they complain about, I pointed out another thread where that is not the case, that is the only claim i have made i never said that Moa morph is not op to some people. you then carried on this self justification of a point or arguments i never made, do you argue with yourself in the mirror often lols.

Kryank.8069:

I play warrior (only level 68atm) my Mesmer is level 29, I have an ele, guardian and thief, I mainly pvp with my Mesmer, guardian, thief or warrior as we switch in our guild TPvP team depending on class make up. So I may not be the most experienced or best player only pvp rank 14 atm and I am open to any kind of criticism but I would like to think I have a good understanding of how pvp works. And how classes work. Obviously I have more experience with some than others, but I never claimed to be an expert of all classes or of any for that reason. All I have done is point out people’s inaccuracies, Moa is subjective some people don’t find it a problem and some do that is what is meant by subjective. However certain facts are non disputable such as cast times animations and stats. If you remove emotion from the argument the facts still remain.

@sorrow, sorry where do I claim I have ultimate knowledge of the pvp in this game my claim is quite the opposite lmao this is getting almost comical now

Kryank.8069:

I will repeat what I said any times earlier it may be OP to some players, but that is not what started this you said that everyone who complains on the forums has played all the classes they complain about, I pointed out another thread where that is not the case, that is the only claim i have made i never said that Moa morph is not op to some people. you then carried on this self justification of a point or arguments i never made, do you argue with yourself in the mirror often lols.

You didn’t just do that, you entered in the topic and now you’re claiming you didn’t.

Let’s try to answer you by quoting my and your posts!

You shyly entering in the argument:

A necro who is trying to play a healing minion build and has played Spvp for 4 hours (those are his words) , and has stacked vitality and toughness is saying that he was owned by a Mesmer who was doing 5000 dps without any clones or illusions and who didn’t Moa Morph him, (it’s half way down the post after his rant about Mao Morph), when you and I know that this is purely a L2P issue, and untrue Sorry to call you on this but there are loads of posts by people who haven’t played other classes and are just venting because they haven’t got used to the game mechancs yet. Most competitive players I know can deal with any class in tpvp as you bring the person not the class, a skilled team will always shine.

You decided to entering in the argument:

Whether Mao bird is OP or not is completely subjective. And poxxia if you play Mesmer as a main you will know that in pvp the Moa morph is not nearly as effective as time warp. Yes it is a anti minion necro skill but it is well telegraphed by the animation and can only be cast once every 4 mins.

Let’s not get personal all I have done is prove things that people are saying that doesn’t make sense either because they are not true or just misinformed or just misunderstand what has happened, and all I have done is quote facts. I agree that moa maybe OP for some players to counter but that is a subjective issue and not an issue with the skill.

You always in the argument while saying you were not:

All I have done is point out people’s inaccuracies, Moa is subjective some people don’t find it a problem and some do that is what is meant by subjective. However certain facts are non disputable such as cast times animations and stats. If you remove emotion from the argument the facts still remain.

Me saying that there are few people who judge before trying. This post is antecedent to your first one.

Sure there are players who joined the chorus without playing that professions, but they are a minority and probably won’t answer your question so they are insignificant. Focusing on this minority when there are bunch of players that actually tried these professions before complaining is pointless.

And, finally, this is you saying you never entered the argument and you never said what you said:

I will repeat what I said any times earlier it may be OP to some players, but that is not what started this you said that everyone who complains on the forums has played all the classes they complain about, I pointed out another thread where that is not the case, that is the only claim i have made i never said that Moa morph is not op to some people. you then carried on this self justification of a point or arguments i never made, do you argue with yourself in the mirror often lols.

Lols sorrow u need a chill your point that I am arguing is that I am saying Moa bird being op is subjective, of course it is, it is not OP for everyone some people are happy to deal with it. Just because you think it’s op doesn’t mean everyone does, or are you the voice for the entire GW2 player base?? If so I bow down to your awesomeness, your quotes only prove what I said earlier, I entered the argument about people posting about a class without playing it as they did in my first post you quoted.

Just to help you out
‘Subjectivity, a subject’s personal perspective, feelings, beliefs, desires or discovery, as opposed to those made from an independent, objective, point of view
Subjective experience, the subjective quality of conscious experience’

That is why I said it is subjective as that is you belief ! That is the only claim I made, just because someone doesn’t agree with your opinion doesn’t make them wrong.

Visualize.4319:

Honestly, why? If you get destroyed by a certain class you’ve never played why do you rush to the forums and complain about it?

There are imbalance issues, but to complain about them without knowing first hand the hows and whys?

Its the same in LoL, people complaining about certain champs being op and never having played them, then playing them and changing arguments to “OP in the right hands”. That’s why at different ELOs different champs get banned.

This is why Arenanet needs to ad an elo system to every sPvP player. Then add a separate hidden elo for browser matches. Make it so people cant quit in browser matches. Make the matches longer.

With longer more competitive matches the game would overall be more fun. Right now you log in spam 6-7 quick matches that dont mean anything (people leaving auto balance throwing people around). It makes each game lose its value.

Put a high value on winning. Make matches longer. Have a rating system to make it competitive.

League of Legends does this formula and it works very well. If people want to stop matching up they /surrender not leave the game.

Kryank.8069:

Lols sorrow u need a chill your point that I am arguing is that I am saying Moa bird being op is subjective, of course it is, it is not OP for everyone some people are happy to deal with it. Just because you think it’s op doesn’t mean everyone does, or are you the voice for the entire GW2 player base?? If so I bow down to your awesomeness, your quotes only prove what I said earlier, I entered the argument about people posting about a class without playing it as they did in my first post you quoted.

Just to help you out
‘Subjectivity, a subject’s personal perspective, feelings, beliefs, desires or discovery, as opposed to those made from an independent, objective, point of view
Subjective experience, the subjective quality of conscious experience’

That is why I said it is subjective as that is you belief ! That is the only claim I made, just because someone doesn’t agree with your opinion doesn’t make them wrong.

Here we go! Quotes again!

I agree that moa maybe OP for some players to counter but that is a subjective issue and not an issue with the skill.

According to logic, negating one affermation is equivalent to affirm the opposite. So what you said is “this is subjective issue, the skill has no issues” which clearly means that to you, the skill is fine, not overpowered.

You said your opinion, which is fine! But claiming you didn’t makes no sense.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, I want to argue with you about the skill, an argument you joined, without you saying “I’m not in that argument” or “arguing with you is useless, I’m superior!”.

I don’t think the skill is OP but that’s not to say that you are wrong for thinking it is that’s why it’s subjective. We could argue all day about this but all I am saying is that the skill maybe OP to some people, so is 100b and pistol whip, and ranger pets, and bunker guardians the list goes on and on, I don’t want to get into an argument over this skill as we will never agree everyone is entitled to there opinion, but in my opinion a skill that can be cast once every 180 secs has a long stationary telegraphed animation and does no damage on its own and is sinlge target, and still allows movement and lasts 10 seconds and can be evaded / dodged can hardly be called game breaking in a 5v5 or 8v8 setting, frustrating yes but game breaking OP no. If you think it is, well that’s up 2 you.

Kryank.8069:

I don’t think the skill is OP but that’s not to say that you are wrong for thinking it is that’s why it’s subjective. We could argue all day about this but all I am saying is that the skill maybe OP to some people, so is 100b and pistol whip, and ranger pets, and bunker guardians the list goes on and on, I don’t want to get into an argument over this skill as we will never agree everyone is entitled to there opinion, but in my opinion a skill that can be cast once every 180 secs has a long stationary telegraphed animation and does no damage on its own and is sinlge target, and still allows movement and lasts 10 seconds and can be evaded / dodged can hardly be called game breaking in a 5v5 or 8v8 setting, frustrating yes but game breaking OP no. If you think it is, well that’s up 2 you.

You know that saying “it is subjective whether the skill is OP or not” and than saying “the skill isn’t OP” is a contraddiction?

Exactly, from which game you came from? I mean, what is your concept of balancing?

Again, to answer to what I said, I’m quoting myself because I don’t want to retype what I’ve already said:

how can you say Moa is a subjective matter if you don’t even know whether people who are not complaining about Moa are all Mesmers and you didn’t even played all the professions which in common sense aren’t overpowered?

What I’m saying could be an opinion if me and few other people agree with me, then the rest have different ideas. But when almost everyone who haven’t a mesmer as a main character are complaining about Moa Morph, it is enough for everyone to stop and think for a minute about THAT skill compared to the other and stop saying “it’s just an opinion, to me it’s fine”.
What about if there was an istant kill skill? What would you say if people complain about that skill? “Uh, to me it’s fine, you can dodge it. It’s your opinion”. Well, Moa Morph isn’t as far from that kind of skill as you would think and this isn’t an opinion because 10 seconds are more than enough to kill someone.

You probably missed those posts, because they give an answer to what you said.
Repeating your statement over and over doesn’t magically makes it well-founded; I would be very happy if you answer to what I’ve said without repeating the same sentence or the same concept in a different way.

Sprawl.3891:

They should have everyone’s personal pie chart of pvp matches played by class show up when you post.

IKR would shut this sorrow guy up, such a baddie troll.

Kryank.8069:

@ sorrow just lols !! All you have succeeded in is impressing everyone with your ability to claim success without backing it up with any sense on fact or cohesive argument I applaud you sir!!
You are indeed a winner!!

Just put him on ignore, I have already and reported for trolling thread, hes gone off topic and has started attacking other peoples posts. Guy needs to step away and learn to deal with his rage.

@Visualize; You can argue all day long. However, there are some classes which simply do not play in the same league (I won’t name them because else another argument starts and that’s not the point I want to make).

As for your logic: If I play class A and put hours into it playing it, tuning it, read up advice in the internet etc. and have a dubious success rate 1:1 and in teamplay. Then switch to class B and suddenly everything is easy and you shred people left and right WITHOUT those hours of play I invested in class A – well, then something is clearly wrong. That’s simple logic. And that’s what Sorrow wanted to tell you.

If you do not believe me climb into a cage with a lion wielding a machine gun and look how fast you can drop a lion. Then take a club (take another lion of course) and see if you are able to leave the cage alive.
That’s a metaphor for the weapon/abilities some classes have. And yes, in some cases the difference is THAT huge.

If you still don’t believe me, I suggest YOU play other classes and see why people complain about YOUR class. Maybe this will put your perspective on things straight again.

@Sprawl: Yup, an up-to-date chart would be interesting. However, I doubt ANet will provide one because it would point out that at least 2 classes have severe design problems and/or are more bug ridden than a stray dog sleeping next to a tick colony.

@Asmodean
Im not defending that point
Sorry i should’ve put that into the original post too. How the only people who think everything is balanced are the ones playing the OP ones.

I LOVE THIS POST so true so true <3

Deer Areena Net,
ty for yer awesum game. rok paper sizors are ferpectly balanced

signed – the 3 classes that are Bazookas

Visualize.4319:

Sprawl.3891:

They should have everyone’s personal pie chart of pvp matches played by class show up when you post.

IKR would shut this sorrow guy up, such a baddie troll.

Kryank.8069:

@ sorrow just lols !! All you have succeeded in is impressing everyone with your ability to claim success without backing it up with any sense on fact or cohesive argument I applaud you sir!!
You are indeed a winner!!

Just put him on ignore, I have already and reported for trolling thread, hes gone off topic and has started attacking other peoples posts. Guy needs to step away and learn to deal with his rage.

I don’t know if it is a troll attempt, irony, stupidity or something else, so I can’t answer what you’ve said.

By the way, for information purposes only, I’ve already posted my pie chart in another topic.