Why do people going far? soloqueue spvp

Why do people going far? soloqueue spvp

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Posted by: Skyy.5380

Skyy.5380

Hey there!

I’ve been playing GW2 sPvP since the last Season now and i am just very curious about one little thing i see every single game, that makes us lose every single time (in my opinion). If i talk about this i just get a “noob” or “l2p”.

Note: This is about Soloqueue!

So we start the Game, one guy says he will go close, rest rushes Mid. That’s what should happen right? Well what I notice is that, as soon as we got Mid (but we lost close, since one of the enemies goes there and caps it) 2 or even 3 people rushing for far. I see this every single time and in my opinion this just makes us lose alot of points and maybe even loses us the game.

I mean look at the math, as soon as we got close and mid its super efficient to get far. I get that, you apply some pressure to the team (or alot of pressure), u can fight them directly at their base and don’t have to worry about your other points etc. But what really happen is that you lose close very early, get Mid, go for far with 3 people that leaves only 2 guys at mid… no1 at close. What you have to do is, you have to get close back. So one of the guys from mid goes for close. That leaves 1 guy to deff mid.

So you have 1 guy on close, one on Mid and 3 on far. Seems like a good deal if you would own all points but thats not how it is. you will lose mid since theres only 1 to defend and atleast 3 ppl are respawning to go back to Mid even before our ppl got to far. So its a 1v3 in mid that causes you to lose mid dftly. Well we might get far after that but since the enemies got mid all ppl are like “oh no we have to get mid back” and rushes back to mid, that leaves far for the enemies without any defenders. since u most certainly killed a guy in order to get far, that guy will respawn and take far back.

So in the end you lost a safe mid, close is maybe struggling in a 1v1 wich can be lost any time just to be the owner of far for 10sec?

This kitten is ridicilous. I mean do i miss anything here? i see this every. single. time.

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Posted by: trunks.5249

trunks.5249

Hey there!

I’ve been playing GW2 sPvP since the last Season now and i am just very curious about one little thing i see every single game, that makes us lose every single time (in my opinion). If i talk about this i just get a “noob” or “l2p”.

Note: This is about Soloqueue!

So we start the Game, one guy says he will go close, rest rushes Mid. That’s what should happen right? Well what I notice is that, as soon as we got Mid (but we lost close, since one of the enemies goes there and caps it) 2 or even 3 people rushing for far. I see this every single time and in my opinion this just makes us lose alot of points and maybe even loses us the game.

I mean look at the math, as soon as we got close and mid its super efficient to get far. I get that, you apply some pressure to the team (or alot of pressure), u can fight them directly at their base and don’t have to worry about your other points etc. But what really happen is that you lose close very early, get Mid, go for far with 3 people that leaves only 2 guys at mid… no1 at close. What you have to do is, you have to get close back. So one of the guys from mid goes for close. That leaves 1 guy to deff mid.

So you have 1 guy on close, one on Mid and 3 on far. Seems like a good deal if you would own all points but thats not how it is. you will lose mid since theres only 1 to defend and atleast 3 ppl are respawning to go back to Mid even before our ppl got to far. So its a 1v3 in mid that causes you to lose mid dftly. Well we might get far after that but since the enemies got mid all ppl are like “oh no we have to get mid back” and rushes back to mid, that leaves far for the enemies without any defenders. since u most certainly killed a guy in order to get far, that guy will respawn and take far back.

So in the end you lost a safe mid, close is maybe struggling in a 1v1 wich can be lost any time just to be the owner of far for 10sec?

This kitten is ridicilous. I mean do i miss anything here? i see this every. single. time.

most of the time every team sends 1 to home rest to mid. well if you send 1 home and 2 to far you can kill that one guy fast and have a really fast 2cap. in my experience 90% of the time when me and one other team mate go far at start we get there and kill the guy before he has it capped then we cap it. so we have home and their home both capped while everyone else is in mid. now the other 10% is when they have the same idea and it ends up evening out with they have are home and we have theirs. or it can get messed up if no one comes with you and you can not solo the guy fast enough or they have 2 ppl at home……in the end some times its all about strategy because you can be totally out classed and the best way to win is to keep their team split up scrabbling to get caps

master jedi david

(edited by trunks.5249)

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

Because sometimes they have a comp that’s way more suited for team fights. When I see lots of necros and guardians for example I know to hit far. If someone announces far I’ll usually go far. Last season we had a warrior and I was on an ele and I called far and asked the warrior to go with me. We won that match.

In my experience 90% of the time when me and one other team mate go far at start we get there and kill the guy before he has it capped then we cap it.

In mine lots of their team lands on far as we’re capping defeating the purpose of hitting far to begin with and disengaging to decap mid would leave the team -1. Sometimes these fights work in our favor but it’s an uphill battle. Sometimes the guy doesn’t even die before backup arrives especially if an engi is capping.

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Posted by: Twonineone.3490

Twonineone.3490

People should understand that PvP is not PvE.
You can’t play always in the same way, you have to adapt your strategy to the classes in your team and in the team against yours, you have to adapt your strategy to the map you are playing in and if you are losing or winning for just few scores.
A military fight is not won always with the same movements.

Besides, there is something called kittening rotation, a mystical thing that nobody seems to know about…at least in low divisions.

PS: sorry for my english

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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

like trunks said, many solo q people open with

140
1 home 4 mid 0 far

however, like Agemnon said, some team compositions are much more better suited for team battles, and we will very likely to lose the initial mid battle.

in one of my season 3 battles (i only had real 3 battles in season 3 so far though, the first one is a laggy desertion so it does not really count) we got the temple map.

i discussed with my team mates,

in the end, we decided to open with 1 home (mesmer portal) while 4 mid,
even though we all know the other team got both druid and tempest (well, we see a ranger and elementalist on their rooster, most people own should hot anyway and be using elite specs) anyway, 2 support.

so the initial mid fight kinda went south, we got killed off one by one, but the other team took a bit too long in taking us out, our mesmer got home, and then went to decap and cap far as well.

so we got both sides while they got mid, the points were kinda tied but we were leading by a few points.

after that, the other team kinda dunno how to divide up their forces. they left 2 at mid, only to be slaughtered by us.

seeing that we got mid, i figured that they would wanna try to take home since we dun have anyone at home, so i ran the best i could (imma testing a vanilla hambow phalax str warrior) up the stairs to check home, saw a scrapper slowing making his way towards our home.

i went to engage the scrapper, the scrapper threw a few attacks at me while keep on going to our home. another team mate of mine came along, the 2 of us murdered the lone scrapper who was assaulting our home, we never lost the home cap.

we kept on murdering them since.

yeah they may have won the initial mid fight, but we got sides during the early phase of the battle too.

we proceed to cap every stillness and tranQ, the game ended 500 – 19x i think we rekt them good.

anyway, going far is fine as long as you dun die there and feed points to the other team.

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

To the OP:
It’s called over rotating and this is why it is happening so often in ranked lately:

  • New player begins play in spvp. He gets yelled at by teammates for “not rotating”
  • New player then starts rotating randomly while not knowing what he is doing because he’d rather not be yelled at for not rotating.
  • New player sort of reaches intermediate level play but still doesn’t understand rotations. Now rotating randomly has become a habit such to the point that most random rotating players believe they know how the rotate and stop asking questions to learn from older players, if they ever asked questions at all.
  • When other players approach the intermediate player about poor decisions in rotation, he has two choices: Listen and learn something or Ignore the advice and continue believing he already knows how to rotate. 9/10 of these intermediate players just ignore the advice and continue on with their trial & error style rotation habits because they are defensive from toxic criticism and would rather not hear it.

The best thing to do, is make sure criticism is constructive and positive, not negative and angry. If it’s positive, sometimes players actually listen and learn something.

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: TheBlackLeech.9360

TheBlackLeech.9360

Hey there!

I’ve been playing GW2 sPvP since the last Season now and i am just very curious about one little thing i see every single game, that makes us lose every single time (in my opinion). If i talk about this i just get a “noob” or “l2p”.

Note: This is about Soloqueue!

So we start the Game, one guy says he will go close, rest rushes Mid. That’s what should happen right? Well what I notice is that, as soon as we got Mid (but we lost close, since one of the enemies goes there and caps it) 2 or even 3 people rushing for far. I see this every single time and in my opinion this just makes us lose alot of points and maybe even loses us the game.

I mean look at the math, as soon as we got close and mid its super efficient to get far. I get that, you apply some pressure to the team (or alot of pressure), u can fight them directly at their base and don’t have to worry about your other points etc. But what really happen is that you lose close very early, get Mid, go for far with 3 people that leaves only 2 guys at mid… no1 at close. What you have to do is, you have to get close back. So one of the guys from mid goes for close. That leaves 1 guy to deff mid.

So you have 1 guy on close, one on Mid and 3 on far. Seems like a good deal if you would own all points but thats not how it is. you will lose mid since theres only 1 to defend and atleast 3 ppl are respawning to go back to Mid even before our ppl got to far. So its a 1v3 in mid that causes you to lose mid dftly. Well we might get far after that but since the enemies got mid all ppl are like “oh no we have to get mid back” and rushes back to mid, that leaves far for the enemies without any defenders. since u most certainly killed a guy in order to get far, that guy will respawn and take far back.

So in the end you lost a safe mid, close is maybe struggling in a 1v1 wich can be lost any time just to be the owner of far for 10sec?

This kitten is ridicilous. I mean do i miss anything here? i see this every. single. time.

Not every pvp match goes as anticipated.

On all maps except forest, I try and convince one of my teammates to escort the person going home.

Why?

It only takes a few extra seconds for the additional player at home to make it to mid if there is nothing going on…. and in the off chance that the enemy team has sent 2+ players far (your home), the guy capping home isn’t screwed.

Its a type of insurance, that yes you do pay for (By having one player waste 4-5 seconds), but this tactic has never steered me wrong.

Scenario….
Now what happens if the enemy team sends 3 people far, and leaves two to cap home at the start… and you don’t escort?

You have 4 ppl at mid who just wasted 10 seconds…

You lost home because it was 3v1, and the dude got steamrolled.

The enemy team has a double cap, and you have mid…

One of your players is respawning…. and the players who ganked your home are now inc to mid.

The guy who capped the enemy home heads mid, also making it a 4v5 with your team on the negative side of that.

You lose the 4v5 and the enemy team proceeds to lock down mid and home for the remainder of the match.

…sending 3 far was the best thing they could have done in that case…

….but every match is not the same.

…and every match can’t be followed by doing the same thing over and over again.

In short…

It’s best to keep your opponents on their toes as long as you aren’t sacrificing teammates to do something that would only be slightly advantageous for the team.

If everyone is together on the strat, changing things up is actually one of the easiest ways to win a match.

“play sides at start”

has won more matches than you would believe.

Everyone just needs to be on the same page.

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Posted by: Skyy.5380

Skyy.5380

Wow alot of Text. Sorry i will not reply to everything.

Well i don’t doubt that it is a good tactic to rotate far in TEAMranked. But since i see this every game i was just wondering. If 3 ppl rotate far after mid that can’t be good -.-

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

Wow alot of Text. Sorry i will not reply to everything.

Well i don’t doubt that it is a good tactic to rotate far in TEAMranked. But since i see this every game i was just wondering. If 3 ppl rotate far after mid that can’t be good -.-

Generally speaking
Capping is good. Once you’ve capped, holding is good.

Capping and holding mid is good because there’s less distance to travel to the other nodes.

By capping and holding mid, your team can focus on one other node, and rotate back and forth as needed.

As soon as you hold two points, as long as you don’t do something stupid, it’s GG.

I had a match where the enemy team had a strong team presence, including this one ele who knew how to sustain. I took him out first, but his team held out for him to run back (that sort of scenario). Eventually someone from our team decided to decap far, and won it after a while. By that stage my team had started rotating so much (to deal with things) that mid was overrun. A scapper on our team had withdrew home to contend after someone decapped. So it ended up 3 far, with scrapper and my power berserker at home. Our comp was such that we could handle whatever they threw at either side, though there was no way for anyone to abandon their sides to decap mid. After defending a couple of early lord attempts we out ticked them and won.

Out of the gate you can start with a plan. But there’s no telling where things will end up.

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Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

There are different things here.

First, the question of 3-point push: you have 2 and push the third (or you push 3 from the start). In organized game, it really depends on your team comp and the enemy comp. In very tanky team comp, pushing 3 points from the start can be advantageous. You deny them their home while you cap yours for free and your team sustain (undernumbered) mid until your home capper can join and balance the fight.

If you have a roamer (thief typically) you would rather instead focus on 2 points and let the thief decap the 3rd.

It also depends on the map. Forest is typically not as great for far push because the respawn is so close from the node.

But what you mention is a case where you won mid and lost close. In this case pushing far instead of close could be a decent strategy if the people sitting on home have high sustain and would probably take long to take down. By going far, you at least immediately deny their 2 caps and thus prevent them from getting too much ahead.

On the other hand, since you won mid, you are likely to get the enemy respawn soon, so you have to take into consideration that you most likely won’t be able to full cap (again, especially on forest). But a contested node can be better than a potential never-ending home fight.

So really, it depends on team comp and map. If you are confident that you can kill the enemy in home (you should have the number advantage) this may be the best move. But it’s not that binary.

A long post just to say… it depends :p

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Posted by: suffish.4150

suffish.4150

In my opinion, going far is always better than not going far as long as you send the right classes to the right places. If my split is 1-3-1 and my opponent’s split is 1-4-0 the they have a 4v3 in their favour at mid, but that is only going to last for about 20 seconds untill the person who got close for free arrives to make it a 4v4 and most teams should be able to survive a 3v4 for 20 seconds without any deaths. All the while, there was one person on far contesting the point which means that you have close capped, a 4v4 in mid and a 1v1 on far. This means you will have 1 cap in your favour and all fights with even numbers for both teams. Going far at the start gave you that advantage.

Some classes are better at going far than others, for example sending an ele to far is not a good idea because they are needed for support in mid and they will never win the fight whereas sending something like a mesmer to far is a great idea because they are very strong in 1v1 fights and even if they start to lose, they can just drop a portal and disengage. The class going to far should also have good mobility because if you can’t get to far before they cap it, the advantage gained by going far that I explained earlier does not exist.

Splits like 2-0-3 can also be good if you have maybe 2 or 3 thieves or something so you can just one shot the person at far from stealth and get a 2 cap right from the start, even if you do give away mid for free.

PvP- Stronlo Beastmaster (Ranger)
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PvP rank: 20 Rating: 1864 (season 7)

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

I go far in 2 cases :
– i am using a build with which usually i win 1 vs 1 ( for example condi mesmer )
– i look at team composition and i see that we can not win mid .
As someone has already said , when there are 2 guardian or 2 necro at mid it is really hard to win if you don’t have the right team composition. So the only thing you can do is to go on 2 other points for making them split . Sometime it works. Taking their far usually have a huge psycological pressiure on many low level team and if they come on far in +1 against me, before i died my teammates are +1 elsewhere

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Posted by: Ravenmoon.5318

Ravenmoon.5318

When I play thief I always, ALWAYS knock on far. If its a target i can take down within 15 seconds I’m doing it, if the enemy team cap and goes for creature i decap and cap for my team and go mid. If its some bunker stuff I go mid instantly for few quick jabs and when the far guy decides to go mid I go far. It usually splits the enemy team.

I’d also try to make them fight me off-point. Which works in lower tiers Especially if I’ve tilted the enemy guy, forcing them to chase me around the map People did that in diamond last season btw

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Hey there!

I’ve been playing GW2 sPvP since the last Season now and i am just very curious about one little thing i see every single game, that makes us lose every single time (in my opinion). If i talk about this i just get a “noob” or “l2p”.

Note: This is about Soloqueue!

So we start the Game, one guy says he will go close, rest rushes Mid. That’s what should happen right? Well what I notice is that, as soon as we got Mid (but we lost close, since one of the enemies goes there and caps it) 2 or even 3 people rushing for far. I see this every single time and in my opinion this just makes us lose alot of points and maybe even loses us the game.

I mean look at the math, as soon as we got close and mid its super efficient to get far. I get that, you apply some pressure to the team (or alot of pressure), u can fight them directly at their base and don’t have to worry about your other points etc. But what really happen is that you lose close very early, get Mid, go for far with 3 people that leaves only 2 guys at mid… no1 at close. What you have to do is, you have to get close back. So one of the guys from mid goes for close. That leaves 1 guy to deff mid.

So you have 1 guy on close, one on Mid and 3 on far. Seems like a good deal if you would own all points but thats not how it is. you will lose mid since theres only 1 to defend and atleast 3 ppl are respawning to go back to Mid even before our ppl got to far. So its a 1v3 in mid that causes you to lose mid dftly. Well we might get far after that but since the enemies got mid all ppl are like “oh no we have to get mid back” and rushes back to mid, that leaves far for the enemies without any defenders. since u most certainly killed a guy in order to get far, that guy will respawn and take far back.

So in the end you lost a safe mid, close is maybe struggling in a 1v1 wich can be lost any time just to be the owner of far for 10sec?

This kitten is ridicilous. I mean do i miss anything here? i see this every. single. time.

most of the time every team sends 1 to home rest to mid. well if you send 1 home and 2 to far you can kill that one guy fast and have a really fast 2cap. in my experience 90% of the time when me and one other team mate go far at start we get there and kill the guy before he has it capped then we cap it. so we have home and their home both capped while everyone else is in mid. now the other 10% is when they have the same idea and it ends up evening out with they have are home and we have theirs. or it can get messed up if no one comes with you and you can not solo the guy fast enough or they have 2 ppl at home……in the end some times its all about strategy because you can be totally out classed and the best way to win is to keep their team split up scrabbling to get caps

So, here’s the problem with that: You win home and close while your mid fails. The enemy gets 2 kills in your mid group and once they wiped them, they go and wipe far (their home) while your mid group waits for respawn. The enemy loses a bit by not controlling their home at the start, but the points from the easy 4 kills make up for that and they end up with both mid and their home in the end, which puts them in the clear lead.

And if it’s like most solo q groups, the people that won far with the 2 v 1 think that they’re hot kitten and blame the team for the loss.

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Posted by: Harper.4173

Harper.4173

To the OP:
It’s called over rotating and this is why it is happening so often in ranked lately:

  • New player begins play in spvp. He gets yelled at by teammates for “not rotating”
  • New player then starts rotating randomly while not knowing what he is doing because he’d rather not be yelled at for not rotating.
  • New player sort of reaches intermediate level play but still doesn’t understand rotations. Now rotating randomly has become a habit such to the point that most random rotating players believe they know how the rotate and stop asking questions to learn from older players, if they ever asked questions at all.
  • When other players approach the intermediate player about poor decisions in rotation, he has two choices: Listen and learn something or Ignore the advice and continue believing he already knows how to rotate. 9/10 of these intermediate players just ignore the advice and continue on with their trial & error style rotation habits because they are defensive from toxic criticism and would rather not hear it.

The best thing to do, is make sure criticism is constructive and positive, not negative and angry. If it’s positive, sometimes players actually listen and learn something.

The problem here is that the “new player” never bothered to read anything about sPvP or watch any video before he started playing it. Nor did he do it after he was told he’s doing poorly.

It’s common human decency to put in the minimal amount of effort into informing yourself before starting an activity where your performance influences others.

If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

going 2 far is realy a bad choice. There are nice tactics if you send one strong duel build far but as described whiping fast in mid is usualy a large disadvantage.
And going far without talking to your team for tactics is even worse.

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Posted by: EdgarMTanaka.7291

EdgarMTanaka.7291

If you are going far in a soloQ you better communicate with your team and have one following you far. Best is if one has sustain and the other does damage so you can take far fast before it gets support or you will end up fighting far forever. When far is capped have the one with less sustain go and help the other points while the one with sustain stays and guards. What annoys me the most is when you need to cap but people rather stay of point and fight or someone fights a tanky class and can’t beat it at a cap that isn’t owned by you.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

The biggest issues casuals have in soloq are these three,

  • Players tend to engage sustain classes on a point they don’t own.
  • Players tend to 1v2 sustain classes in general, forcing a handicap on other points.
  • Players over commit when they should play safe on just 2 points.

Yes, it’s good to push far to “bottleneck” the team but definitely not when you have no clue where or when enemy respawns are. Players zerg nodes but end up getting backcapped themselves… because people rotate first instead of watching their map or viewing the Stomp Notices on the side of the screen.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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Posted by: Tyeme.6589

Tyeme.6589

If you don’t like what your seeing, maybe you should discuss what your side is going to do before the match starts. Playing the sides (203) can be successful as long as everyone knows that’s the plan. If your not discussing how to approach the match beforehand, you really don’t have room to complain when people don’t do the things you expect.

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

i went far alot in season 1 & 2. In season 2 i ran to straight to ruby with maybe 5 losses and i ran mostly to far.

There is nothing wrong with far.

The majority of this thread is a L2P issue.

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Posted by: XGhoul.7426

XGhoul.7426

I’ve pushed far by myself every game on engineer, only lost 1 game so far out of 12, taking a break when queue isn’t as long.

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Posted by: fishball.7204

fishball.7204

Pushing far is fine at the start if mid can handle a 3v4 for a bit until the home guy goes mid at the start.

A lot of people keep saying “dont go far!” in games where they’re being camped at home by 3 people though, they have it in their minds that far is always bad even if the node is free :/

FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN

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Posted by: DaShi.1368

DaShi.1368

Most people don’t know where to be and when. I still have teams where one guy camps home while the rest of us have to fight 4v5.