Guild Wars 2

Just wondering……

I’m only Ruby myself.

But I have friends that are Legend and take the SPvP so seriously.

Then I come on these forums and see people complaining that it’s impossible to climb, or that the people who are Diamond and above all cheated to get there. And that ranks means nothing because of the exploitable system currently in place.

I have some bad news for everyone…..the rank means nothing because YOU DONT GET ANYTHING…..

I have to say I was hyped when I heard about leagues. But now that they are out….we see that they are pointless.

There is literally NO reward for being Legend when compared to Amber, aside from a PvP back skin……wowie.

The rewards for PvP are seriously lack luster.

Heck, I made more money in 1 hour of grinding xmas gifts than I did in 2 weeks of PvP getting to Ruby…..what a joke.

So here’s the truth guys….PvP is meaningless in this game. Setting aside the exploits, ranks, cheaters, and unbalance. You just plain don’t get anything for PvP. So stop complaining about people being in Ruby, Diamond, Legend x500, whatever. Truth is, no matter how they got there….they wasted their time doing so, and got nothing for it. Thats how I feel at least about Ruby…..

Who knows, maybe once you get Legend there’s some cool reward I don’t know about…any Legends care to shine some light?

I do not care for ranks. Played some matches at the start of leagues, got really bored from all those aids-builds. So I stopped to play this game after amber. I do not care for this game anymore. HoT was the worst update in guild wars history (that includes gw1).
And no to the kid who might ask for stuff from my account, you can’t have it as I got nothing.

I don’t care much about rank, will reset anyway.

Am enjoying the game and like HoT changes overall.

People just come to the forums to complain.

I just want the sweet precursor backpiece.

The badges are the rewards themselves. They’re supposed to communicate, “I have this skill level in PvP.”

Its not just rank its the kittenty matchmaking and the quality of players im forced to play with. The vast majority of the matches are like 500-300 w-l and Im not playing any different in the buttkickings then when I win easily. I expect to be matched with people that know the basics the vast majority of the time not people that ping Svanir and Chiefien at the start of every Nifhel match which sadly happens even with diamond and legendary players. Last these league where put here for COMPETITIVE players if winning is not you main goal why are you playing when you can just do hotjoin, arena, or unranked. Its almost ridiculous to ask that question. How about because this is suppossed to be for competitive players. kitten I feel like everyone has taken stoopid pills.

brannigan.9831:

Its not just rank its the kittenty matchmaking and the quality of players im forced to play with. The vast majority of the matches are like 500-300 w-l and Im not playing any different in the buttkickings then when I win easily. I expect to be matched with people that know the basics the vast majority of the time not people that ping Svanir and Chiefien at the start of every Nifhel match which sadly happens even with diamond and legendary players. Last these league where put here for COMPETITIVE players if winning is not you main goal why are you playing when you can just do hotjoin, arena, or unranked. Its almost ridiculous to ask that question. How about because this is suppossed to be for competitive players. kitten I feel like everyone has taken stoopid pills.

its a game. if you aren’t having fun don’t play. better for everyone

I care when I have 20 pips, and idiots are brainles in my team….

Oh, I really want those glowing wings and you need to get to legendary to have them. They match my armor set. I like having the badge next to my name as well, whether or not it means anything. At a minimum, it says you’ve played a lot of games and have some skill to speak of.

I think anyone Ruby and up should be proud. But there are really great pvp’ers in emerald and sapphire, as well. You have to win over a hundred games to make it to Legendary in such a short period of time. Few have the time it takes, but are very skilled nonetheless.

Or maybe, just maybe… its not about the rewards….

Agemnon.4608:

The badges are the rewards themselves. They’re supposed to communicate, “I have this skill level in PvP.”

True except that unfortunately, it means more “I am smart and cheesed my way through the leagues”

style.6173:

Agemnon.4608:

The badges are the rewards themselves. They’re supposed to communicate, “I have this skill level in PvP.”

True except that unfortunately, it means more “I am smart and cheesed my way through the leagues”

No, this is really not true. I’ve been soloing and casually teaming up with one or two friends since leagues launched. I am currently tier 5 in Diamond. No exploits or anything. Just about 150 some odd matches…

Ranks don’t matter anyways, since MMR and divisions are separate. I’ve seen a lot of people that are Legendary that I’ve never seen in pvp before. Which leads me to believe they have low MMR and they also just farmed Stronghold (easier competition and faster games). At the moment that badge doesn’t mean anything, there really is nothing skillful at all to it. However, this game is catered to a casual player base so I really didn’t expect much to begin with.

Agemnon.4608:

The badges are the rewards themselves. They’re supposed to communicate, “I have this skill level in PvP.”

Except it’s more like “I played this much”.

brannigan.9831:

The vast majority of the matches are like 500-300 w-l and Im not playing any different in the buttkickings then when I win easily. I expect to be matched with people that know the basics the vast majority of the time not people that ping Svanir and Chiefien at the start of every Nifhel match which sadly happens even with diamond and legendary players.

LOL so much this.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Agemnon.4608:

The badges are the rewards themselves. They’re supposed to communicate, “I have this skill level in PvP.”

Except it’s more like “I played this much”.

I know -_- Leagues need tighter skill gating and better matchmaking (only people on your team when soloQ are within 10% of your MMR) or just placing people in leagues based off their MMR and graduate to a new league when it meets the threshold.

Chaba.5410:

brannigan.9831:

The vast majority of the matches are like 500-300 w-l and Im not playing any different in the buttkickings then when I win easily. I expect to be matched with people that know the basics the vast majority of the time not people that ping Svanir and Chiefien at the start of every Nifhel match which sadly happens even with diamond and legendary players.

LOL so much this.

Co-signed. That is sooooo depressing to still see that so often.

Its for people who still care about exhibiting their skill. Some even think they can go e-sports if they do well enough and stand out (perhaps). Ranks would matter a lot more if it wasn’t possible to abuse the system so easily and if the meta wasn’t this stale.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Its for people who still care about exhibiting their skill. Some even think they can go e-sports if they do well enough and stand out (perhaps). Ranks would matter a lot more if it wasn’t possible to abuse the system so easily and if the meta wasn’t this stale.

It is not just that. It’s that ppl want to make comparison with almost no variables in the equation being equals.

Not everybody will invest as much time during season.
Not everybody will start season at same time.
Not everybody will cheese it’s way to glory.
Not everybody will play the meta.
etc.

So tell me, why should something you acquire without legitimate ways to compare apples with apples should carry a meaning it possibly can’t? Hence why rank doesn’t say much about what ppl would love to be able to brag about.

Archon.6480:

style.6173:

Agemnon.4608:

The badges are the rewards themselves. They’re supposed to communicate, “I have this skill level in PvP.”

True except that unfortunately, it means more “I am smart and cheesed my way through the leagues”

No, this is really not true. I’ve been soloing and casually teaming up with one or two friends since leagues launched. I am currently tier 5 in Diamond. No exploits or anything. Just about 150 some odd matches…

150 odd matches and diamond tier 5? Sorry but I find that hard to believe, not to mention solo q-ing there. You need an absurd winrate to get there in 150 matches. I personally solo/duo q-ed to legendary and it took me a little over 330 matches with a 60% winrate.

Http://imgur.com/U0oUyhx

Only sapphire rank and only pvp’d with a team who I randomly qued with in a match for 2 of the matches cause they wanted to que up together.

So yea rank don’t really matter. Just shows players how much you been playing.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Its for people who still care about exhibiting their skill. Some even think they can go e-sports if they do well enough and stand out (perhaps). Ranks would matter a lot more if it wasn’t possible to abuse the system so easily and if the meta wasn’t this stale.

It is not just that. It’s that ppl want to make comparison with almost no variables in the equation being equals.

Not everybody will invest as much time during season.
Not everybody will start season at same time.
Not everybody will cheese it’s way to glory.
Not everybody will play the meta.
etc.

So tell me, why should something you acquire without legitimate ways to compare apples with apples should carry a meaning it possibly can’t? Hence why rank doesn’t say much about what ppl would love to be able to brag about.

Here’s a little known secret when it comes to succeeding in competitive games.

The top players are the players who would do literally anything and everything they can to win. Everything. As long as it isn’t illegal, anything goes. That means amongst this small group of players, they see it as a legit achievement to out cheese their opponent and game the system as hard as they can as long as the governing body says nothing.

Are these players bad? Do they lack skill? Of course not. You need to understand your environment in order to be able to manipulate it and assume maximum cheese mode. Its just that people want to assign their own definition of skill in order to best suit their preferences, completely disregarding the reality if the situation. The reality is the best players are the players who can milk the meta or create a new one. Why wait an hour to face other legends when you can repeatedly farm opponents of lesser skill? As far as I’m concerned, these players earned their rank and have the right to show it off and compare with each other. Theyre playing the game as best as they can. Talk to Anet if you really have a problem instead of berating the players.

It is as the saying goes. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Archon.6480:

Oh, I really want those glowing wings and you need to get to legendary to have them.

Not at all. You just need 2xRuby and 2xSapphire during 4 seasons to get the precursor. Hitting legendary rank will just shorten the path, but in the end, everyone will be able to get the precursor.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Its for people who still care about exhibiting their skill. Some even think they can go e-sports if they do well enough and stand out (perhaps). Ranks would matter a lot more if it wasn’t possible to abuse the system so easily and if the meta wasn’t this stale.

It is not just that. It’s that ppl want to make comparison with almost no variables in the equation being equals.

Not everybody will invest as much time during season.
Not everybody will start season at same time.
Not everybody will cheese it’s way to glory.
Not everybody will play the meta.
etc.

So tell me, why should something you acquire without legitimate ways to compare apples with apples should carry a meaning it possibly can’t? Hence why rank doesn’t say much about what ppl would love to be able to brag about.

Here’s a little known secret when it comes to succeeding in competitive games.

The top players are the players who would do literally anything and everything they can to win. Everything. As long as it isn’t illegal, anything goes. That means amongst this small group of players, they see it as a legit achievement to out cheese their opponent and game the system as hard as they can as long as the governing body says nothing.

Are these players bad? Do they lack skill? Of course not. You need to understand your environment in order to be able to manipulate it and assume maximum cheese mode. Its just that people want to assign their own definition of skill in order to best suit their preferences, completely disregarding the reality if the situation. The reality is the best players are the players who can milk the meta or create a new one. Why wait an hour to face other legends when you can repeatedly farm opponents of lesser skill? As far as I’m concerned, these players earned their rank and have the right to show it off and compare with each other. Theyre playing the game as best as they can. Talk to Anet if you really have a problem instead of berating the players.

It is as the saying goes. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

My personal philosophy regarding glory goes in the same way the saying does: your glory will be at the height of the perils you had to face to reach the place you got to.

There is little peril when you maximize cheese while also seeking unfair fights. You cant have it easy and glorious when you only seek to imitate Tonia Harding to get the medal. Yes, you can brag about the badge. But only you know what you did to get it.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Its for people who still care about exhibiting their skill. Some even think they can go e-sports if they do well enough and stand out (perhaps). Ranks would matter a lot more if it wasn’t possible to abuse the system so easily and if the meta wasn’t this stale.

It is not just that. It’s that ppl want to make comparison with almost no variables in the equation being equals.

Not everybody will invest as much time during season.
Not everybody will start season at same time.
Not everybody will cheese it’s way to glory.
Not everybody will play the meta.
etc.

So tell me, why should something you acquire without legitimate ways to compare apples with apples should carry a meaning it possibly can’t? Hence why rank doesn’t say much about what ppl would love to be able to brag about.

Here’s a little known secret when it comes to succeeding in competitive games.

The top players are the players who would do literally anything and everything they can to win. Everything. As long as it isn’t illegal, anything goes. That means amongst this small group of players, they see it as a legit achievement to out cheese their opponent and game the system as hard as they can as long as the governing body says nothing.

Are these players bad? Do they lack skill? Of course not. You need to understand your environment in order to be able to manipulate it and assume maximum cheese mode. Its just that people want to assign their own definition of skill in order to best suit their preferences, completely disregarding the reality if the situation. The reality is the best players are the players who can milk the meta or create a new one. Why wait an hour to face other legends when you can repeatedly farm opponents of lesser skill? As far as I’m concerned, these players earned their rank and have the right to show it off and compare with each other. Theyre playing the game as best as they can. Talk to Anet if you really have a problem instead of berating the players.

It is as the saying goes. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

My personal philosophy regarding glory goes in the same way the saying does: your glory will be at the height of the perils you had to face to reach the place you got to.

There is little peril when you maximize cheese while also seeking unfair fights. You cant have it easy and glorious when you only seek to imitate Tonia Harding to get the medal. Yes, you can brag about the badge. But only you know what you did to get it.

This cheese is how the game was meant to be played though. There are options available to everyone. Some decide to utilize all of the options. Some don’t. The ones that choose to use everything at their disposal reach the top. The ones who don’t stay at the bottom.

There is no glory in losing. You can repeatedly tell yourself that and much like a baby’s pacifier, you’ll silence yourself with your own words. In every competitive sport, players and teams are always looking for an uncounterable tactic, something to give them a clear edge over their opponent. This is also known as tactical decision making. In every aspect of life where you’re competing with someonr else of comparable intelligence, you’ll eventually find that if you two play the exact same way, the deciding factor would be luck. Do you believe that everyone should be progressing due to luck or thought out decisions and plans? Cheese is cheese in the eyes of people who are on the receiving end of the plan.

As for the people who “exploited” their way to the top with meta, premades and lower ranked friends/smurfs, they’re the best at GW2 and you’ll simply have to deal with it. Whatever you believe won’t change the fact that they’re of a higher rank. Of course, you’ll say that you could do what they did and get the same thing they got and to that I would say “Did you expect anything different?”. The people who win do something the people who lose don’t. They’re not chosen or given greater power than everyone else. They simply made choices. When people are competing for the exact same thing, you’ll find that you’re faced with two choices. Do whatever it takes or don’t. You go to whatever lengths to win and that will inevitably leave salty people who twist their anger towards themselves to someone else, refusing to believe that they held themselves back.

Again, don’t misunderstand, I find the current meta to be very bland and not worthy of much attention from people looking for a serious gaming experience as a whole.

Exactly. A quote from Dominic Toronto. “It dosnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile (high risk/reward or cheese) winning is winning”

I will just say how much rank matters: i had a guy stomping clone while i was wasting all my initiative trying to prevent enemy necro from rezzing that mez. Obviously necro got the rez eventually. I killed mes again, my teammate starts to stomp CLONE!!! again…. :|

So i get such teammates because clearly rank represents skill

uhh forum bug…

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Exactly. A quote from Dominic Toronto. “It dosnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile (high risk/reward or cheese) winning is winning”

Your quote is irrelevant both as an argument and to the topic discussed. We aren’t talking by how much you win but HOW you achieve said victory and what it means. Winning 500-0 or 500-499 is winning no matter what we agree.

Telling yourself that you are the best after facing and defeating ppl of your skill and knowledge isn’t the same as facing fake opponents to victory. No matter how you spin it the value of the achievement and what it mean is going to be affected by it. One way lead to a champion the other to a paper champion.

@Slayersixx

Pretending that exploiting undesired side effects of a system, any system, despite being fully aware of the idea behind it’s design is how it is ‘intended to be used’ is a logical fallacy.

Let’s be clear here. I’m not denying the fact someone has a rank. I’m arguing on what it necessarily mean and I sure as hell have legitimate reasons to question some interpretations. The simple fact people have to defend the meaning of that achievement is a testimony of how questionable it is in many people’s eye. People have to acknowledge you the recognition you want from them, not the other way around. Me not acknowledging your rank as a testimony of superior skill is something you will have to deal with, not me.

If you admit anyone who make the same choices can do it you kinda admit there is nothing special to see here, move along. There are tons of things in life that no matter my choices I can’t expect to achieve. They simply are not within my reach and it’s perfect like that. But the pvp legendary rank is not one of them for a crap load of GW2 players.

As for your belief that there is no glory in defeat it is up to you to view it like that but it is a fact that not all loss are devoid of it and not all win awarded it. The Persian empire might have crushed 300 Spartans in the end but their defeat was certainly positively glorious to the points of still echoing in today’s cinema. Certainly nobody in their wildest dream would think the Persian won because they were the best warriors.

BTW, cheese being cheese in the eyes of people who are on the receiving end of the plan is a two bladed sword. I can just as easily say that nothing is ever cheese in the eye of the plan makers but me saying so does not make it fact. In the end it is a question for everyone’s conscience.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

@Slayersixx

Pretending that exploiting undesired side effects of a system, any system, despite being fully aware of the idea behind it’s design is how it is ‘intended to be used’ is a logical fallacy.

Let’s be clear here. I’m not denying the fact someone has a rank. I’m arguing on what it necessarily mean and I sure as hell have legitimate reasons to question some interpretations. The simple fact people have to defend the meaning of that achievement is a testimony of how questionable it is in many people’s eye. People have to acknowledge you the recognition you want from them, not the other way around. Me not acknowledging your rank as a testimony of superior skill is something you will have to deal with, not me.

If you admit anyone who make the same choices can do it you kinda admit there is nothing special to see here, move along. There are tons of things in life that no matter my choices I can’t expect to achieve. They simply are not within my reach and it’s perfect like that. But the pvp legendary rank is not one of them for a crap load of GW2 players.

As for your belief that there is no glory in defeat it is up to you to view it like that but it is a fact that not all loss are devoid of it and not all win awarded it. The Persian empire might have crushed 300 Spartans in the end but their defeat was certainly positively glorious to the points of still echoing in today’s cinema. Certainly nobody in their wildest dream would think the Persian won because they were the best warriors.

BTW, cheese being cheese in the eyes of people who are on the receiving end of the plan is a two bladed sword. I can just as easily say that nothing is ever cheese in the eye of the plan makers but me saying so does not make it fact. In the end it is a question for everyone’s conscience.

If they were undesired, Anet should’ve taken almost immediate action to remedy the situation.

I’m not defending the people who did what they did to get legend. I’m simply stating what should be obvious but, of course, people would rather live in their own bubble and make excuses. You not acknowledging a person’s achievement for utilizing every option in the game will never be something THEY have to deal with. They really wanted legendary and got it. You must’ve wanted it as well somewhere along the road and simply decided you didn’t want it because of x reason.

I should’ve mentioned this previously, but video games aren’t as complex as real life. While there are certain things that people are physically incapable of achieving, practically every competition exists in the world with the premise that ANYONE can be the top player or create the top team otherwise it wouldn’t be much of a competition.

There is no glory in defeat. People can respect the efforts of the Spartans in that movie. Their tenacity, will, and cleverness is what people would’ve respected, but you’ll never have people applauding them for losing.

Whenever you intend to go out and achieve something, you always try to make a plan with as little holes as possible. I’ll give you an example within the context of a competition. The football team, Chelsea, is sometimes laughed at and called Bus FC because of the tactic they sometimes employ. This tactic is called parking the bus because they basically take all their players and pull them as far back into their side of the field as legally possible which, if you can imagine parking a bus sideways across the net, makes it almost impossible for them to be scored on . They would do this when they’ve already scored and want to secure their win. Is this tactic unfair? Perhaps, especially considering how brutal this team’s defense is to begin with, but a tactic is a tactic that can be counter played if you’re good enough. I’ll repeat, cheese is only cheese in the eyes of the person on the receiving end. You can continuously tell yourself that you’re better than this. That you’ll never do this. That this is too low for you to stoop to. That is precisely why you and people like you will never win a serious competition for as long ad you subscribe to this mentality.

I have to disagree with SlayerSixx.5763 on part of his argument.

I do agree that winning is winning and in theory nothing good comes from losing. Yet the argument was more about not being the #1, but being stuck right below those so called #1 using match making manipulation.

I’d rather applaud the second or third best if it appears that the way the #1 achieved victory was by using underhanded method.

There is a difference between using available tools while they are viewed as totally legal and are even encouraged by the community and using tools that are decried as contemptible, while not being illegal on itself.

For a while doping was not viewed as an underhanded method in the world of sports, even Olympics had case of obvious doping. Drugs in sports was not illegal in the early 20th century. It only became illegal at a much later date. As of today, when a champion wins when it is later revealed he used drugs, his title is worthless and is even accompanied by shame and usually a ban from the world of sports.

In term of GW2. I think using ‘’meta builds/meta comps’’ is totally fine. It is similar to your example of the football team, it might sometimes irritate the other teams, but it is only using the best tools that are available and viewed as fine, while maybe labelled as unfair by some players.

As for matchmaking manipulation, I see it as ‘’using shaddy mechanics’’ that have not been corrected yet by Anet. For sure everyone can do it if they truly wanted to get legendary title, yet even the community itself view it as a disgrace and a problem that needs to be fixed. Even Anet said they are going to work on it.

This is my perspective on the situation at hand. A win is a win, yet some wins are more meaningful than others. I’d rather applaud a player who is legendary x1 than a legendary x3 who used matchmaking manipulation.

If they were undesired, Anet should’ve taken almost immediate action to remedy the situation.

Please… Our own society has tons of undesired effects that we aren’t that quick to addressed despite being immensely problematic… a game? Look at the pace of some fix in game just to see how this is a dubious line of thinking at best.

I’m not defending the people who did what they did to get legend. I’m simply stating what should be obvious but, of course, people would rather live in their own bubble and make excuses. You not acknowledging a person’s achievement for utilizing every option in the game will never be something THEY have to deal with. They really wanted legendary and got it. You must’ve wanted it as well somewhere along the road and simply decided you didn’t want it because of x reason.

No. I do not make excuses. I state a fact. A rank in that system doesn’t equate what ppl want it to equate plain and simple. You can wiggle all you want but that remains true.

That I, or anyone else, wanted something or not is irrelevant to this. I’m not the one making any excuses here. I’m not seeking to be acknowledged. Ppl insisting their rank mean what it does not are. The problem is, they can’t force acknowledgement. It’s never something that you forced out of others. Therefore, it is their problem not mine. I congratulate all who get what they wanted but I can’t agree about what a rank alone mean except that they achieved something, and they did.

I should’ve mentioned this previously, but video games aren’t as complex as real life. While there are certain things that people are physically incapable of achieving, practically every competition exists in the world with the premise that ANYONE can be the top player or create the top team otherwise it wouldn’t be much of a competition.

I agree but the point still stand no matter if we address real life or a game. Making something say what it doesn’t is just a no-no, no matter if we are speaking of a game or life. Me wanting it to be so changes nothing.

There is no glory in defeat. People can respect the efforts of the Spartans in that movie. Their tenacity, will, and cleverness is what people would’ve respected, but you’ll never have people applauding them for losing.

I’m curious about your definition of glory because frankly the Spartan example is hard to argue against yet you still try. I utterly disagree with you about this and so does history and today’s homage to the defeat. Winning is not synonymous with glory. It is a different word for a reason. In the same line of thinking there are victories that smell really bad and are shameful. Winning is about a result. Glory is about what happened regardless of result. Glorious deaths are a thing since forever for example but according to you it’s non-sense… i think it’s your definition that need to be adjusted.

Whenever you intend to go out and achieve something, you always try to make a plan with as little holes as possible. I’ll give you an example within the context of a competition. The football team, Chelsea, is sometimes laughed at and called Bus FC because of the tactic they sometimes employ. This tactic is called parking the bus because they basically take all their players and pull them as far back into their side of the field as legally possible which, if you can imagine parking a bus sideways across the net, makes it almost impossible for them to be scored on . They would do this when they’ve already scored and want to secure their win. Is this tactic unfair? Perhaps, especially considering how brutal this team’s defense is to begin with, but a tactic is a tactic that can be counter played if you’re good enough. I’ll repeat, cheese is only cheese in the eyes of the person on the receiving end. You can continuously tell yourself that you’re better than this. That you’ll never do this. That this is too low for you to stoop to. That is precisely why you and people like you will never win a serious competition for as long ad you subscribe to this mentality.

Again, I’m not questioning the success of a tactic. I’m questioning the legitimacy of calling yourself ‘better’ sorely based on a rank. Only using that variable to infer this is ridiculous.

The path you take to achieve something WILL matter in a way or another depending on what you want. If you want to be regarded as the best while avoiding fighting the best your credibility will be challenged no matter if you did get the medal/cup/badge. And THIS is something that you will have to live with and deal with.