Guild Wars 2

are the main source of cheese/troll tactic builds?

First it was heartseeker spam. Nerf that?
They figure out the pistol whip spam with haste. Nerf that?
They figure out the 2 shot C&D/Steal + backstab build.
Nerf that? What’s next then? Hasted Unload builds that crit over 15k?

Is it the intention of ArenaNet to always have at least one gibby thief build?

These are the same type of players that use aimbots and wallhacks in FPS to feel superior over others with no actual skill invested. Can’t kill that bunker guardian legit? Gib em! Too slow too fight that mesmer in a real fight because you CBA to figure out the real mesmer in between your pistol whip/hs spam? Gib em!

Sure you’re useless for another minute, but who cares?! You just totally pwnd that n00b!

You ridicule thieves for having no skill while simultaneously pointing out why they take skill. Also, backstab hasn’t been nerfed. Maybe if you cry harder Anet will get rid of the class altogether so that you can find something else to complain about.

Mesmers are still worse. Nothing like being crit once by the IZerker for 5k, followed by 6k for IDuelist. Focus on them, the Mesmer stacks confusion through traits, CoF, whatever else, and continues DPSing you himself which can still hurt with a power build. Focus on the Mesmer… And yeah. Plus they’re just as slippery as those kitten Thieves! Argh. Annoying haha.

I’ll take being instagibbed any day than the frustration of playing against a half-braindead, or better, Mesmer.

Zeta Reticuli.9203:

are the main source of cheese/troll tactic builds?

First it was heartseeker spam. Nerf that?
They figure out the pistol whip spam with haste. Nerf that?
They figure out the 2 shot C&D/Steal + backstab build.
Nerf that? What’s next then? Hasted Unload builds that crit over 15k?

Is it the intention of ArenaNet to always have at least one gibby thief build?

These are the same type of players that use aimbots and wallhacks in FPS to feel superior over others with no actual skill invested. Can’t kill that bunker guardian legit? Gib em! Too slow too fight that mesmer in a real fight because you CBA to figure out the real mesmer in between your pistol whip/hs spam? Gib em!

Sure you’re useless for another minute, but who cares?! You just totally pwnd that n00b!

I am a perfect example that thieves have some form of skill

I suck at thief. the mechanic makes sense to me, I get it, I’ve seen the video, I’ve done the testingin the mists…

I get into game and my stealths don’t work, not for me anyways…
my F1 doesn’t work, not for me anyways…
cluster bombs don’t work, not for me anyways.

I’m relegated to using HS (yes I know its been nerfed, but I use it for a gap closer) and I have only a relative 80% success rate when paired with another player. 0% if I am not.

I’ve seen the por’s do it. I am no pro.

I will take my ranger and get back to pwning those thieves. Even the good ones.
Sometimes, people gravitate to a class because its ‘easy mode’ others because they tune into it.

I am neither of those. However, rangers…that’s a whole ‘nother story. Everyone notices me when I’m around. And the last thing they want to be…is around me.

I do kill people with QZ + crossfire spam. But lately, people have been trying to figure out where ‘slice’ comes from.

You forgot the Bleed-focused build that spams Death Blossom. It’s currently more popular than even the Backstab build.

Anyway, the problem is Initiative. Without conventional cooldowns Thieves are encouraged to spam their most efficient attack. And in many cases, this is only one particular one…which they then spam.

Initiative is just a flawed concept. Even if they make an ability very costly to use, people will still find ways to spam it.

Btw. as cheesy as Backstab builds may seem, they aren’t that easy to pull off and can be very taxing. You have to press 4-5 buttons within about 2 seconds to achieve full effect. And then wait another 45 seconds before doing it again. You also drop really, really quickly.

I’m not saying it’s balanced, I’m just saying it’s not faceroll.

Irascible.8210:

You ridicule thieves for having no skill while simultaneously pointing out why they take skill. Also, backstab hasn’t been nerfed. Maybe if you cry harder Anet will get rid of the class altogether so that you can find something else to complain about.

You didn’t read much of what I wrote then. I didn’t say Thieves didn’t require any skill, nor did I indicate anything about those 3 gibbish builds that did require any sort of skill (button mashing 1 key, or pushing the same 3 buttons once each in the same order every minute is not skill sorry).

I didn’t say backstab was nerfed, I said what’s next if it is nerfed? Some other silly instagib or spam build?

Animosity.5231:

Mesmers are still worse. Nothing like being crit once by the IZerker for 5k, followed by 6k for IDuelist. Focus on them, the Mesmer stacks confusion through traits,

I’ll take being instagibbed any day than the frustration of playing against a half-braindead, or better, Mesmer.

I duelist cannot hit for 6k on anybody. It can max 4k on cloth every 8 seconds. Zerker can hit for 4k max per attack. If you see a higher number than this, it’s because you’ve been attacked by the same attack (8 seconds in between each) multiple times. These are the mesmers main attacks. What else would you have them attack with? If you think it’s so crazy, take the 15 minutes I did to make a mesmer and go beat on some dummies for a bit.

Confusion is such a joke of an ability it isn’t even worth mentioning. Unless you have over 700+ condi damage (which you won’t in the power build you’re griping about) a 6+ stack of confusion will hit maybe for 600 each attack. I tried rolling condition/blind/confusion spec before but realized it was just simply inferior to power builds against other classes.

And you would seriously rather die in 2 seconds before saying Boo, than to die because either you think the class that killed you is overpowered, or you were less skilled than them or whatever?

I bend over and kiss the ground whenever I hear that ‘tink’ noise from Cloak and Dagger because I know within a second I’m very likely going to die.

Zeta Reticuli.9203:

are the main source of cheese/troll tactic builds?

First it was heartseeker spam. Nerf that?
They figure out the pistol whip spam with haste. Nerf that?
They figure out the 2 shot C&D/Steal + backstab build.
Nerf that? What’s next then? Hasted Unload builds that crit over 15k?

Is it the intention of ArenaNet to always have at least one gibby thief build?

These are the same type of players that use aimbots and wallhacks in FPS to feel superior over others with no actual skill invested. Can’t kill that bunker guardian legit? Gib em! Too slow too fight that mesmer in a real fight because you CBA to figure out the real mesmer in between your pistol whip/hs spam? Gib em!

Sure you’re useless for another minute, but who cares?! You just totally pwnd that n00b!

stop shoving so much into other players mouths please.

you keep saying spam, key hint here, thieves only have 1 real damage move per spec (2 if you count dagger/pistol mainhands in stealth). so if we want to do damage, we are gonna hit that freaking move, stop calling it spamming, we dont even have a choice.

second, HS did too much damage above 25%, its been fixed

second, i disagree with how they nerfed pistol whip, nerfing haste would have been a better idea

thirdly, the backstab build that people complain about is basically 1 build, there isnt really any variance to it, it has no survivability (outside of bugged stealth which needs fixing), and little armor/hp. in fact it uses all its Cd’s to kill one target, then hides or dies for 45 seconds until it can do it again. this doesnt change that the damage is too much, but it means the nerf needs to be on that specs traits/utilities not on backstab itself.

4th, i like how you conveniently left out shatter phantasm mesmers (oh wait it was just addressed along with PW, and HS ahs already been). bunker guardians, defensive elementalists (both been nerfed recently) shortbow rangers (oh wait, indirectly nerfed) 100b warriors, and im sure theres more.

ya, thieves got all the cheese /rolleyes

but do you play guardian/mesmers? the only two classes tha tmajority of people said had a spec/s that perform better then thieves and impact the game harder, and its hte only two you mentioned getting owned by thiefs.

cant fight bunker guardian fair? no, nobody could, thats why it was nerfed.

mesmers? i think the nerf was a bit much, but still…bad examples mate.

Wolfe.3097:

you keep saying spam, key hint here, thieves only have 1 real damage move per spec , we dont even have a choice.

second, HS did too much damage above 25%, its been fixed

second, i disagree with how they nerfed pistol whip, nerfing haste would have been a better idea

thirdly, the backstab build that people complain about is basically 1 build, there isnt really any variance to it, it has no survivability (outside of bugged stealth which needs fixing), and little armor/hp. in fact it uses all its Cd’s to kill one target, then hides or dies for 45 seconds until it can do it again. this doesnt change that the damage is too much, but it means the nerf needs to be on that specs traits/utilities not on backstab itself.

4th, i like how you conveniently left out shatter phantasm mesmers (oh wait it was just addressed along with PW, and HS ahs already been). bunker guardians, defensive elementalists (both been nerfed recently) shortbow rangers (oh wait, indirectly nerfed) 100b warriors, and im sure theres more.

ya, thieves got all the cheese /rolleyes

but do you play guardian/mesmers? the only two classes tha tmajority of people said had a spec/s that perform better then thieves and impact the game harder, and its hte only two you mentioned getting owned by thiefs.

cant fight bunker guardian fair? no, nobody could, thats why it was nerfed.

mesmers? i think the nerf was a bit much, but still…bad examples mate.

I agree with nearly everything you’ve said lol..

I think thieves are too one dimensional and too open to cheesy, skill-less builds. And I do agree the builds need to be changed/nerfed, not the abilities. I think sword pistol thieves were in a good balance, it was haste and sometimes the free stun (which could have been removed by getting rid of the thief being rooted) that caused rage.

Nerfing the damage end on heartseeker made no sense. Nerfing PW damage made no sense. It was haste combined with the utility tied with them that made those two over the top (plus low risk/skill spamability).

Sure there are other annoying or somewhat gimmicky builds for other classes, but none can rival the three famous ones the thief has delivered us in the first month of the game.

Bottom line, Assassin, Spy, Thief and Ninja classes have always throughout nearly every video game been OP. It just happens.

They really don’t require skill. I wish they did. They might be interesting then. There’s a glimmer of potential in them that could make for a very skillful class if it leaned more towards utility, position and deception. But as is they’re stupid easy to play and achieve success with. Anyone that says otherwise is frankly fooling themselves. Even without haste you can hit stupidly hard for little effort on your part and any trade off in squishiness is easily mitigated with stealth.

Zeta Reticuli.9203:

I duelist cannot hit for 6k on anybody. It can max 4k on cloth every 8 seconds. Zerker can hit for 4k max per attack. If you see a higher number than this, it’s because you’ve been attacked by the same attack (8 seconds in between each) multiple times. These are the mesmers main attacks. What else would you have them attack with? If you think it’s so crazy, take the 15 minutes I did to make a mesmer and go beat on some dummies for a bit.

Confusion is such a joke of an ability it isn’t even worth mentioning. Unless you have over 700+ condi damage (which you won’t in the power build you’re griping about) a 6+ stack of confusion will hit maybe for 600 each attack. I tried rolling condition/blind/confusion spec before but realized it was just simply inferior to power builds against other classes.

And you would seriously rather die in 2 seconds before saying Boo, than to die because either you think the class that killed you is overpowered, or you were less skilled than them or whatever?

I bend over and kiss the ground whenever I hear that ‘tink’ noise from Cloak and Dagger because I know within a second I’m very likely going to die.

Dont forget we are the class of many dmg sources, al this focus on “this single hit was xxxxk high” etc kinda is irrelevant. You will not bam instagib ppl with 1 attack as mesmer, we have burst yes, enought to close to instagibb ppl aswell but you cant track the dmg to a single ability as you do with thives. Reguarding confusion uselssness i dissagree. I dont play with a single gear piece in wvwvw with condi dmg on but still see ppl take 1,7k confusion hits, mainly due to stacking dmg from % abilitys and might.

Have a look at the ele at 6.20. He will not say confuion and codition dmg of mesmers dont hurt. Alone they would ofc not done alot but stacked with the other crits its nasty stuff.

Ps I dont find thives be sutch pain in sPvP as this thread say. Yes some are but thats more the condi stacking ones. The glasscannon spammers cant do alot vs deversion and al other tricks. I rather go vs a thief any day than against a bunker necro or 10-10-20-25-10 mesmer with vitality and toughtnes gear.

Xhaiden.3891:

They really don’t require skill. I wish they did. They might be interesting then. There’s a glimmer of potential in them that could make for a very skillful class if it leaned more towards utility, position and deception. But as is they’re stupid easy to play and achieve success with. Anyone that says otherwise is frankly fooling themselves. Even without haste you can hit stupidly hard for little effort on your part and any trade off in squishiness is easily mitigated with stealth.

that last part, i keep seeing it. i admit, it can be mitigated with proper traits in the stealth line.

however just stealth itself (especially when its bugs/rendering issue are fixed) i just dont see it. it only works vs people with no awareness who tunnel (90% of hotjoin it seems), or people who think that cuz the target has dropped they ahve no non targetting attacks, or they specced such a way to give htem only single target abilities cuz they think they dont need any CC/aoe at all.

in which case it is the players choices that are at fault

now you could argue since apparently so many have these issues, that a nerf is needed to aid the lowest common denominator, but imo tha twill just turn this game into what wow is right now, no real individuality or choice.