Guild Wars 2

Still the strongest 1v1 spec, terribly designed in terms of mechanics, being able to put out good pressure and damage while playing passive due to low CDs on defensive skills if really, really dumb. Any other competent dev team would’ve fixed this.

As someone who’s played the condi Mesmer, the damage is high, the stealth is annoying, but defensive and healing abilities is low. Most of the defense I use is either stealth, confusion with clones, and stealing boons. Overall, not terribly hard to beat. We lived through season 2, we can survive condi mes

Chrono had significant nerfs in the two balance patches before this one, so I wouldn’t say it hasn’t been touched. Try baiting the block spam without giving him a block, makes a huge difference.

Sorin Noroku.5342:

As someone who’s played the condi Mesmer, the damage is high, the stealth is annoying, but defensive and healing abilities is low. Most of the defense I use is either stealth, confusion with clones, and stealing boons. Overall, not terribly hard to beat. We lived through season 2, we can survive condi mes

Whatever build you’re playing, I don’t think that’s what he’s talking about. Meta chrono has no stealth but loads of block / evade / invuln. But most classes have heavy sustain and good dps now, so I don’t see a problem with chrono specifically. Probably a L2P issue tbh.

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Mender druid and scrapper can both play a sustain game against chrono. You will slowly wear them down.

Staff thief can also beat chrono in a 1v1 if they have a cap to worry about. You can cleave out clones very quickly by your constant dodging AOE attack.

Exciton.8942:

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Know how to play DH… lol, sadly its the only dumb way we have to play with that class.. besides poop traps… useless.
A decent mesmer will not fall for trap poop spam…

Aeolus.3615:

Exciton.8942:

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Know how to play DH… lol, sadly its the only dumb way we have to play with that class.. besides poop traps… useless.
A decent mesmer will not fall for trap poop spam…

He’s talking about traps for killing clones, which is valid since shatter is a good portion of chrono’s offense.

From OP’s post history, looks like he favors warrior, which to be fair is not in a great place for 1v1ing a meta chrono at equal skill level.

Aeolus.3615:

Exciton.8942:

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Know how to play DH… lol, sadly its the only dumb way we have to play with that class.. besides poop traps… useless.
A decent mesmer will not fall for trap poop spam…

Ur playing DH wrong, because DH straight up nerfs Mes.

Sorin Noroku.5342:

As someone who’s played the condi Mesmer, the damage is high, the stealth is annoying, but defensive and healing abilities is low. Most of the defense I use is either stealth, confusion with clones, and stealing boons. Overall, not terribly hard to beat. We lived through season 2, we can survive condi mes

I agree completely.

If confusion and stealth are on cooldown, my only option is to start running. I main a condi Chronomancer and my clones consistently fall prey to DH traps, leaving me completely vulnerable.

GhandiBot.6257:

being able to put out good pressure and damage while playing passive due to low CDs on defensive skills.

That’s almost every single class in the game and I agree it’s horrible.

DH symbol build is another popular option that also hard counters mes. Since you can literally keep a symbol on cap point for eternity (matches skill CD), it cleaves out most if not all illusions sitting on it. This means if DH is half decent enough to save their blocks for mes burst, then mes has literally no sustain pressure on him.

GhandiBot.6257:

Still the strongest 1v1 spec, terribly designed in terms of mechanics, being able to put out good pressure and damage while playing passive due to low CDs on defensive skills if really, really dumb. Any other competent dev team would’ve fixed this.

Wait a minute……. don’t you have a 95 percent win rate on Mesmer? lmao

GhandiBot.6257:

Still the strongest 1v1 spec

It’s not.

GhandiBot.6257:

Terribly designed in terms of mechanics, being able to put out good pressure and damage while playing passive due to low CDs on defensive skills is really, really dumb.

You literally just described Revenant.

Same reason why condi ghost thief hasnt been touched?

Due to the entire game being about standing on a 3m wide circle and bunkering, Anet dont consider stealth OP in PvP even to the point of permastealth in combat. Because stealth doesnt cap points. Meaning the mesmer and thief can never be OP in PvP no matter how strong they are.

I assume OP is talking about the meta condi chrono build that is actually used in PvP tournaments. Not the roaming WvW stealth-camping build that doesn’t exist in any moderate-high level of PvP.

The current meta chrono build was nerfed slightly this patch in two great ways: (1) the signet animation for moa now appears as soon as the mesmer starts casting — this is a gigantic icon above the mesmer’s head; (2) the mesmer now has to face the target when casting moa. These two changes make the moa cast super easy to spot in the midst of combat and easy to dodge, which is really important.

Otherwise, the build is relatively balanced compared to all the other powercreeped meta builds.
- Hardcounters rev and necro.
- Effectively stalemates vs a decent scrapper/druid.
- Beats most warrior builds eventually, but will have to give up the point due to the warrior’s resistance uptime.
- Loses to DH.
- Gets hard-countered by a good +1ing thief, but beats thief in a straight up 1v1 (inc. staff thief once you learn the vault animation).

ResJudicator.7916:

I assume OP is talking about the meta condi chrono build that is actually used in PvP tournaments. Not the roaming WvW stealth-camping build that doesn’t exist in any moderate-high level of PvP.

The current meta chrono build was nerfed slightly this patch in two great ways: (1) the signet animation for moa now appears as soon as the mesmer starts casting — this is a gigantic icon above the mesmer’s head; (2) the mesmer now has to face the target when casting moa. These two changes make the moa cast super easy to spot in the midst of combat and easy to dodge, which is really important.

Otherwise, the build is relatively balanced compared to all the other powercreeped meta builds.
- Hardcounters rev and necro.
- Effectively stalemates vs a decent scrapper/druid.
- Beats most warrior builds eventually, but will have to give up the point due to the warrior’s resistance uptime.
- Loses to DH.
- Gets hard-countered by a good +1ing thief, but beats thief in a straight up 1v1 (inc. staff thief once you learn the vault animation).

Druid doesnt win mesm anymore(unless playing some 1v1 counter build), and we still have to see which build will be engies running, so mesm is actually in top 3 at duels easily, which is broken if we take into account that mesm is not even used for 1v1s

Hint: mesmers have always beeen good as a dueling class. If a player can’t sustain himself because of a poor amount of condi cleanse then this player shouldn’t try to 1v1 a mesmer but instead rotate accordingly to support his team. And no the ultimate goal of PvP In GW 2 is not to kill players but instead cap points and rotate accordingly. An advice: don’t try to cleanse yourself as soon as you see the first condies being applied, wait for the big burst….Second advice: play the class to learn its weaknesses and strengths.

flog.3485:

Hint: mesmers have always beeen good as a dueling class. If a player can’t sustain himself because of a poor amount of condi cleanse then this player shouldn’t try to 1v1 a mesmer but instead rotate accordingly to support his team. And no the ultimate goal of PvP In GW 2 is not to kill players but instead cap points and rotate accordingly. An advice: don’t try to cleanse yourself as soon as you see the first condies being applied, wait for the big burst….Second advice: play the class to learn its weaknesses and strengths.

Winning 1v1s means that you own the node, half of the rotations are based on 1v1 and 2v2 matchups. Mesm having some of the best skills for tfs should make him not as good as it it at side nodes. Tbh mesm could endure some nerfs and still be balanced

kin korn karn.9023:

Aeolus.3615:

Exciton.8942:

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Know how to play DH… lol, sadly its the only dumb way we have to play with that class.. besides poop traps… useless.
A decent mesmer will not fall for trap poop spam…

He’s talking about traps for killing clones, which is valid since shatter is a good portion of chrono’s offense.

From OP’s post history, looks like he favors warrior, which to be fair is not in a great place for 1v1ing a meta chrono at equal skill level.

only condi. power warrior with a greatsword is amazing at killing clones the second they spawn.

ResJudicator.7916:

I assume OP is talking about the meta condi chrono build that is actually used in PvP tournaments. Not the roaming WvW stealth-camping build that doesn’t exist in any moderate-high level of PvP.

The current meta chrono build was nerfed slightly this patch in two great ways: (1) the signet animation for moa now appears as soon as the mesmer starts casting — this is a gigantic icon above the mesmer’s head; (2) the mesmer now has to face the target when casting moa. These two changes make the moa cast super easy to spot in the midst of combat and easy to dodge, which is really important.

Otherwise, the build is relatively balanced compared to all the other powercreeped meta builds.
- Hardcounters rev and necro.
- Effectively stalemates vs a decent scrapper/druid.
- Beats most warrior builds eventually, but will have to give up the point due to the warrior’s resistance uptime.
- Loses to DH.
- Gets hard-countered by a good +1ing thief, but beats thief in a straight up 1v1 (inc. staff thief once you learn the vault animation).

^ This is spot on.

Chrono is fine. Condi Chrono does not have any stealth. They are good at 1v1, not so much in a team battle. They are mobile but not as much as a thief, and they can pressure but not as well as a Necro.

DH hard counters Chrono Condi. Druid, and to a lesser extent Scrapper, are tough match ups.

Chrono counters Necro and Rev and has a good matchup vs. Warrior.

Thief can go either way.

Moa did get a minor nerf as now it only hits in front of the caster.

RaGe.9834:

Aeolus.3615:

Exciton.8942:

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Know how to play DH… lol, sadly its the only dumb way we have to play with that class.. besides poop traps… useless.
A decent mesmer will not fall for trap poop spam…

Ur playing DH wrong, because DH straight up nerfs Mes.

I dont play with traps.

Aeolus.3615:

RaGe.9834:

Aeolus.3615:

Exciton.8942:

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Know how to play DH… lol, sadly its the only dumb way we have to play with that class.. besides poop traps… useless.
A decent mesmer will not fall for trap poop spam…

Ur playing DH wrong, because DH straight up nerfs Mes.

I dont play with traps.

Welp, you can play how you want all the time or you can play how you want some of the time. If you see a condi mes and want to win 1v1, the symbolic build is your best bet. At least have ToF to kill one burst. Guild Wars 1 was often referred to by the players as Build Wars, and to a lesser degree GW2 retains that aspect. Adapt or die.

Ha Ha. While i do seem to have trouble beating condi Chronomancer, i’m not a big fan of crying for nerfs on a class because i have trouble beating them. I figure it’s an opportunity to grow and become more skilled at the game. (That’s a nice way to say git gud)

Honest answer here,

Mesmer has no other viable builds, killing this build would turn them into warrior S2.

Build diversity is at a low, cant just start killing classes because anet doesnt know how to balance.

Exciton.8942:

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Mender druid and scrapper can both play a sustain game against chrono. You will slowly wear them down.

Staff thief can also beat chrono in a 1v1 if they have a cap to worry about. You can cleave out clones very quickly by your constant dodging AOE attack.

You did not tell it straight but yeah, you can beat condi chronos, but only with another cancer cheese aka faceroll specs = DH traps, staff spam thief, scrapper spam …

Question: what is the definition of kitten cheese spec when it has plenty of viable counters?

Are we sure we just aren’t defining cancer cheese specs as those specs that counter the ones we personally like to play?

They’ve done nothing about perma stealthing builds all this time, even guardians, of all classes have frequent access to stealth. If the game survives another 2 years (that is if the artists get tired of carrying the studio) watch an across the board nerf to all stealth and invulnerable abilities.

Ragion.2831:

They’ve done nothing about perma stealthing builds all this time, even guardians, of all classes have frequent access to stealth. If the game survives another 2 years (that is if the artists get tired of carrying the studio) watch an across the board nerf to all stealth and invulnerable abilities.

Important changes they’ve made:

• They made it so you can’t cap a point in stealth (both PvP and WvW)
• They introduced a ton of revealed debuff skills
• They tweaked/balanced stealth durations and stealth based effects

Indirectly, the changing of the game has effected stealth play. Such as increased AoE, CC, and damage, including condition spam and effective ticks. Hiding in stealth means very little when your enemies can hit you anyway, and things like condi’s eat you alive regardless.

Conclusion: You’re wrong

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ragion.2831:

They’ve done nothing about perma stealthing builds all this time, even guardians, of all classes have frequent access to stealth. If the game survives another 2 years (that is if the artists get tired of carrying the studio) watch an across the board nerf to all stealth and invulnerable abilities.

Important changes they’ve made:

• They made it so you can’t cap a point in stealth (both PvP and WvW)
• They introduced a ton of revealed debuff skills
• They tweaked/balanced stealth durations and stealth based effects

Indirectly, the changing of the game has effected stealth play. Such as increased AoE, CC, and damage, including condition spam and effective ticks. Hiding in stealth means very little when your enemies can hit you anyway, and things like condi’s eat you alive regardless.

Conclusion: You’re wrong

O really, go into a duel room and fight a PU mesmer or dp thief with a necro and then tell me how that worked out for you lol.

Nearly all of those reveal skills have cooldowns, require a utility slot and dont do much except reveal. Keep in mind stealth can be applied permanently and revealing does not necessarily mean death for the revealed class (which for some absurd reason now includes guardian, of all classes) because of multiple active defenses and escapes.

So aside from a couple of exceptions, taking a dedicated reveal skill really does not help you. Thats why only 3 of the 6 classes with reveal use it, and mainly because of its other effects. You might say well the fact they exist is good enough, well no, we’ve gone past the point of throwing in utility skills for situational purposes.

If the reveals could not be evaded, miss or be blocked then that would be one thing.

I really dont understand the fascination these devs have with causing other classes to not attack 90% of the time. Heavy stealth is not even something that makes combat all that interesting, its just one of those things people are forced to deal with. Its necro i feel sorry for the most, no mobility but yet warrior got a reveal skill before they did (which they wont use btw).

If necros finally get one, I’m 100% certain devs will do something really silly and put it on an underused utility skill instead of attaching it to a trait just to add more pressure to necro’s utility

Huskyboy.1053:

Aeolus.3615:

RaGe.9834:

Aeolus.3615:

Exciton.8942:

1v1 a condition chrono?
DH destroys them if you know how to play. Can survive easily as long as you spam traps, symbols and blocks since they cleave out clones in less than half a second.

Know how to play DH… lol, sadly its the only dumb way we have to play with that class.. besides poop traps… useless.
A decent mesmer will not fall for trap poop spam…

Ur playing DH wrong, because DH straight up nerfs Mes.

I dont play with traps.

Welp, you can play how you want all the time or you can play how you want some of the time. If you see a condi mes and want to win 1v1, the symbolic build is your best bet. At least have ToF to kill one burst. Guild Wars 1 was often referred to by the players as Build Wars, and to a lesser degree GW2 retains that aspect. Adapt or die.

true…
.. meanwhile i started to play with traps+symbols :| carried by burst build(1pony trick and die if fail burst) to counter players being carried on other builds it is whaat i feel like…

Ragion.2831:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ragion.2831:

They’ve done nothing about perma stealthing builds all this time, even guardians, of all classes have frequent access to stealth. If the game survives another 2 years (that is if the artists get tired of carrying the studio) watch an across the board nerf to all stealth and invulnerable abilities.

Important changes they’ve made:

• They made it so you can’t cap a point in stealth (both PvP and WvW)
• They introduced a ton of revealed debuff skills
• They tweaked/balanced stealth durations and stealth based effects

Indirectly, the changing of the game has effected stealth play. Such as increased AoE, CC, and damage, including condition spam and effective ticks. Hiding in stealth means very little when your enemies can hit you anyway, and things like condi’s eat you alive regardless.

Conclusion: You’re wrong

O really, go into a duel room and fight a PU mesmer or dp thief with a necro and then tell me how that worked out for you lol.

Pro tip: Stay out of duel rooms. They have zero bearing on conquest based pvp, or even stronghold, which are the only relevant points of discussion when talking meta, or balance for GW2 PvP (not really stronghold, but at least it’s an official and supported game mode unlike dueling).

Ross Biddle.2367:

Pro tip: Stay out of duel rooms. They have zero bearing on conquest based pvp,.

This type of thinking is why there are so many in ranked that are bad at combat. A big part of conquest is fighting. If you cant take a thief 1v1 for what ever reason, how can you possibly take the same thief if they have a decent team. Hide behind teammates for support? because it is a “team game”? That just means you are a weak link. This is literally what every necro complains about.

I’ve personally noticed the difference in my combat abilities between the time i dueled and now that i dont anymore

Has way too much confusion up time, as well as being able to dish out conditions way too easily. The defenses are not too big of an issue, but with combination of the condi pressure, it’s op.

Cleansing vs condi mes is like nothing even happened, especially if you do it before the conditions have a chance to stack (and they stack probably way quicker than they should).

Ragion.2831:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Pro tip: Stay out of duel rooms. They have zero bearing on conquest based pvp,.

This type of thinking is why there are so many in ranked that are bad at combat. A big part of conquest is fighting. If you cant take a thief 1v1 for what ever reason, how can you possibly take the same thief if they have a decent team. Hide behind teammates for support? because it is a “team game”? That just means you are a weak link. This is literally what every necro complains about.

I’ve personally noticed the difference in my combat abilities between the time i dueled and now that i dont anymore

Great, yes, you can use a dueling arena to improve your 1v1 ability, particularly with 1v1 builds, under 1v1 victory conditions.

The problem is you’re arguing for balance and the “OP’ness” of things like stealth. When in reality stealth has been “touched” since release, and these things are not considered “OP” in relevant contexts, i.e. conquest game modes. Heck, meta chrono’s don’t run any stealth XD

I don’t doubt you have some points to make, but the problem here is you’re running multiple lines of argument shooting all over the place. I’ve stuck to a single line of thought. You need to stay on track.

BTW, players can also improve their combat ability vs multiple opponents just by playing conquest, and at the same time win conquest matches. Dueling arenas aren’t some sort of superior method of improvement. Players can also improve their dueling ability and yet completely suck as winning conquest or stronghold matches. Anyway….

I feel like the people who are in the dueling arenas all the time are weaker 1v1ers than ESL players or people who just ranked solo queue into several tiers of Legend. The reason why is because the people in unranked/ranked tend to have more competitive players than the players who just stay in the dueling arenas all the time. Also, duelists tend to shy away from “cheese” builds and they tend to avoid LOSing, doing jps, getting too far away from the opponent, kiting too much, etc. Arena fighters, unbound by these synthetic rules, play dirtier which ultimately results in a stronger 1v1 presence in an arena fight. Also, the regular duelists are constantly just standing around chatting, watching duels, and trolling rather than tryharding to win. I think almost everyone tries their best to win in an arena fight.

The meta chrono build is the best rotater right now but it is definitely not the strongest 1v1 spec. I can think of a few builds that can beat it in a 1v1 assuming both players are equal skilled.
-acro staff dp/pp or even shortbow daredevil
-meta DH
-meta scrapper
-meta druid

Other than f5 into moa+spam shatters, the meta chrono build really lacks burst that they can dish out at the start of a fight. That means that although invocation rev will lose to meta chrono in a 1v1, invoc rev can just jump a chrono and end the fight in a few seconds when the chrono is distracted by something else like let’s say a team fight. The slow damaging nature of the meta chrono sort of balances it out despite it’s good 1v1 potential and absolute best rotating potential.

Really the only thing that makes and breaks the chrono is portal (the best skill in this game in all 3 game formats). Watch Denial Esports and you’ll notice that Helseth constantly goes far and just sets a portal. He moves into mid to support the team fight. As soon as he sees that his team will lose the team fight, he sets down the portal so his team can regroup at far and play the side nodes. I feel like this quick rotation really does break the game. Make portal recharge longer in pvp only.