Guild Wars 2

I know this topic comes up a lot, but IMO it hasn’t been talked about enough. If it were, 8v8 would be a thing of the past.

And no, I don’t care that 5v5 is now an option. You can really only get one or two full games in 5v5 before it starts falling apart.

On the other hand, people still play 8v8 and simply run around circles in big zergs farming glory.

Vyce.2014:

I know this topic comes up a lot, but IMO it hasn’t been talked about enough. If it were, 8v8 would be a thing of the past.

And no, I don’t care that 5v5 is now an option. You can really only get one or two full games in 5v5 before it starts falling apart.

On the other hand, people still play 8v8 and simply run around circles in big zergs farming glory.

Because it’s not a competitive bracket.

Poplolita.2638:

Vyce.2014:

I know this topic comes up a lot, but IMO it hasn’t been talked about enough. If it were, 8v8 would be a thing of the past.

And no, I don’t care that 5v5 is now an option. You can really only get one or two full games in 5v5 before it starts falling apart.

On the other hand, people still play 8v8 and simply run around circles in big zergs farming glory.

Because it’s not a competitive bracket.

Why doesn’t LoL have 8v8? I mean, non-ranked play might as well be whatever since you know… it’s not competitive. While we’re at it, let’s add a few servers that are 40v40 because you know.. it’s not a competitive bracket…

Sorry, but that argument is not a good one. The maps and mode is design for 5v5.

The benefit to 8v8 is that extreme casuals can perform well in it and learn by following the zerg, and they seem to have fun, and you can farm a lot more glory for leveling.

5v5 trains you better for tPvP, but the main problem is that it’s at the bottom of the list, and they get also tend to get overrun by other players looking to duel at certain times of day. Distinguishing between 5v5 and 8v8 by seperating them into two tabs on the menu was a suggestion someone once brought up that I think would be great to help visually seperate the two for new players.

The main problem with 8v8 are the players who do that for a while, then queue up for a tPvP match and get stomped, and then frustrated eventually. They are being handicapped on how to actually play the game by it, and currently, 8v8 matches are more populated at the top of the list, so it’s sort of being shown visually on the menu as the “main” PUG play mode.

no one learn anything on 8vs8 hot join. is a zerg fest where newbies spam skills.

5vs5 hot join could be great if most of time wasnt 4vs5 and people leave after 1 or 2nd match and not forget many times you will see 5 guys run together.

hot join is just to farm glory/rank no one learn anything from there, no strategy, 90% of classes are canon glass with build for 1vs1 without any team support. is just to farm glory/rank anh have fun (most of time isnt fun at all) nothing more

It’s there because options are nice.
And don’t even start with LoL, it doesn’t strengthen any arguments whatsoever. Especially not when compared to an MMO that is best compared to a shooter, like Team Fortress 2 for instance. Multiple team sizes, multiple servers.
And I really hope you were joking when you decided to mention LoL here. It’s about as far from Guild Wars 2 as any game could ever be.
The only similarities that could possible connect LoL to Guild Wars 2 is matchmaking. And that’s not really there either is it :/

Vyce.2014:

Poplolita.2638:

Vyce.2014:

I know this topic comes up a lot, but IMO it hasn’t been talked about enough. If it were, 8v8 would be a thing of the past.

And no, I don’t care that 5v5 is now an option. You can really only get one or two full games in 5v5 before it starts falling apart.

On the other hand, people still play 8v8 and simply run around circles in big zergs farming glory.

Because it’s not a competitive bracket.

Why doesn’t LoL have 8v8? I mean, non-ranked play might as well be whatever since you know… it’s not competitive. While we’re at it, let’s add a few servers that are 40v40 because you know.. it’s not a competitive bracket…

Sorry, but that argument is not a good one. The maps and mode is design for 5v5.

The fact that you even mention, with your sarcastic tone, that hot join is competitive… is mind blowing.

P.S: Yes, why not add 40v40 in a non-competitive bracket? It could be a possibility. It’s not like it matters.

Poplolita.2638:

Vyce.2014:

Poplolita.2638:

Vyce.2014:

I know this topic comes up a lot, but IMO it hasn’t been talked about enough. If it were, 8v8 would be a thing of the past.

And no, I don’t care that 5v5 is now an option. You can really only get one or two full games in 5v5 before it starts falling apart.

On the other hand, people still play 8v8 and simply run around circles in big zergs farming glory.

Because it’s not a competitive bracket.

Why doesn’t LoL have 8v8? I mean, non-ranked play might as well be whatever since you know… it’s not competitive. While we’re at it, let’s add a few servers that are 40v40 because you know.. it’s not a competitive bracket…

Sorry, but that argument is not a good one. The maps and mode is design for 5v5.

The fact that you even mention, with your sarcastic tone, that hot join is competitive… is mind blowing.

P.S: Yes, why not add 40v40 in a non-competitive bracket? It could be a possibility. It’s not like it matters.

I never said it was competitive… but it is exactly the same game mode/type as tournaments, so why the disparity in player count? It would be much better if players got experience on smaller scale pvp rather than zerg-fests. If I wanted 8v8 (or more) I’d go WvW (which I do quite a bit).

Rika.7249:

It’s there because options are nice.
And don’t even start with LoL, it doesn’t strengthen any arguments whatsoever. Especially not when compared to an MMO that is best compared to a shooter, like Team Fortress 2 for instance. Multiple team sizes, multiple servers.
And I really hope you were joking when you decided to mention LoL here. It’s about as far from Guild Wars 2 as any game could ever be.
The only similarities that could possible connect LoL to Guild Wars 2 is matchmaking. And that’s not really there either is it :/

except the devs talk about LoL all the time… also, forest of nif (npcs you can kill to gain a boon, and can be last-hit/steal intentionally). I realize that the game is different. But there are clearly influences. Regardless of all of that, the point is not comparing the entire game, but the small scale pvp. casual non-ranked games should have the same player count as tournament matches.

As usual, a bunch of people who think less people automagically means more skillz… if you believe that why not just do 1v1? Of course different fight sizes require different types of strategies…or should if the game is well-designed?

In no other MMO-style game is 8 people a ‘zerg’… and that’s assuming all 8 stick together …which never happens in any of the 8v8 hotjoins I’ve seen?

Basically, you want to force everybody into your idea of what the game is about (evidently button-mashing execution and counter-button mashing in 1v1 and other really small fights)…. despite the fact that 8v8 was first and presumably what the devs designed the game to initially?

Zosk.5609:

As usual, a bunch of people who think less people automagically means more skillz… if you believe that why not just do 1v1? Of course different fight sizes require different types of strategies…or should if the game is well-designed?

In no other MMO-style game is 8 people a ‘zerg’… and that’s assuming all 8 stick together …which never happens in any of the 8v8 hotjoins I’ve seen?

Basically, you want to force everybody into your idea of what the game is about (evidently button-mashing execution and counter-button mashing in 1v1 and other really small fights)…. despite the fact that 8v8 was first and presumably what the devs designed the game to initially?

first time i see someone defend 8vs8 hotjoin. 16 guys in such smal maps is ridiculous.
strategy on 8vs8 hot join? are you serious? you can even kill people spamming just 1-2skills.
dont exist any strategy there, except use call target (and believe most of guys there dont even have a keybind to “take target”).

want talk about strategy? a team that zerg on 8vs8 will never win the match, so you are talk about the strategy to farm rank/glory ( aka zerg) or a strategy to actually win the match? ( not that matter because if you win the match you win a CRAP bonus….)

hot join = zerg period. 8vs8, 5vs5 dont matter, dont exist any strategy there, people just want win glory/rank fast and the best way is zerg. why? because on hot join dont matter if you win or loose the match.

if you loose match you dont loose points, if you win match you win a useless win bonus (40-50 bonus LOL).

the best is that exist a max rank points per game that is if im not wrong 320 match

IMO should exist custom servers to test builds without any rank/glory points. if someone want win rank/glory should join a free tournament (divide between random and guildies) and the win bonus would be bronze/silver/gold chest like exist now.

if someone leave the tournaments will be enable to join another tournament for a X time, if he need to leave because some urgency for sure 15-20m will not go matter

basically if you want see any strategy on sPvP you need to go tournament, even on free you see it, on hot join never see in a single game a team withdefend points and play as a team to win the match, etc, all are roamers and 90% of them are canon glass, what strategy you see on 8vs8 hot join ZERG?

basically what you see is cap a point, go to another if you find a enemy player kill it and go capture next point and so on. if you are zerg in a point and enemy continue coming and die than you dont even go leave that point.

Zosk.5609:

As usual, a bunch of people who think less people automagically means more skillz… if you believe that why not just do 1v1? Of course different fight sizes require different types of strategies…or should if the game is well-designed?

In no other MMO-style game is 8 people a ‘zerg’… and that’s assuming all 8 stick together …which never happens in any of the 8v8 hotjoins I’ve seen?

Basically, you want to force everybody into your idea of what the game is about (evidently button-mashing execution and counter-button mashing in 1v1 and other really small fights)…. despite the fact that 8v8 was first and presumably what the devs designed the game to initially?

5v5 was most certainly what pvp was designed around.

Even at the highest competitive brackets, 5v5 in WoW arena was thought to be a cluster-kitten, and nearly unbalancable. WoW’s combat system was not originally designed with pvp in mind, however.

Because GW2 combat mechanics are well designed, and designed with PvP in mind, it’s possible to enjoy playing 8v8 for a short periods of time, but being mindful of positioning is nearly impossible (made much worse by lack of a zoom out, in my opinion).

This means that after a player gets sick of getting serial stomped, he starts to look for the other green dots on the map and moves with them. If you’re the type that enjoys getting glory points, then this behavior is further incentivized, as most players will earn more glory following the zerg than they will defending or back-capping nodes.

I actually like 8v8 casually. Not everyone plays to be “competitive” but to just jump in and have some fun as is the intention by the devs. I actually find 5v5 (when it happens after some ppl leave) much more boring and uneventful, empty even. There’s just a greater chance of 1v1 or 2v2.

Some say ppl don’t work as a team in 8v8 or play “supportively” for the group. Not the way I experience it. I still see bunkers and roamers and people still want to win the game even if they are just glory farming. I’d even argue that glory farming incentivizes people to learn/experiment faster as they would go out of their way to take nodes and kill more people.

If you want to practice and prepare for tournaments, go into free tpvp or 5v5 hotjoins and leave 8v8 as it is…

I have created a similar topic myself – 8×8 is the worst thing for a newcomer to pvp in: it has nothing useful to teach him, and because this type of game still exist the 5×5 servers are usually empty because for some reason, they are the ones on the bottom.

I actually disagree. The 8v8 is good for new people and just casual play. It actually motivates them to continue to PvP, because the rewards are good (fast matches + fast kills = a lot of glory).
It is also ideal for build testing on different professions and in zerg situations, which are much rarer in 5v5.
I do agree though that they are not the ‘real PvP experience’, like when voice communicating with your PvP team and experiencing highly competitive and tactical gameplay.
But imo that doesn’t mean they should just get banned. 8v8 has its advantages and disadvantages.

They should just rework it a bit so that you have less incentive to zerg. That is the real problem.

Simple answer? Because hb wars can make points only in 8vs8’s zergs.

Biomanz.9302:

I actually find 5v5 (when it happens after some ppl leave) much more boring and uneventful, empty even. There’s just a greater chance of 1v1 or 2v2…

This is basically one of the reasons why I’m even arguing the point. If there was no 8v8 then all of the 5v5 maps would be more active. Simple as that.

Lukin.4061:

I have created a similar topic myself – 8×8 is the worst thing for a newcomer to pvp in: it has nothing useful to teach him, and because this type of game still exist the 5×5 servers are usually empty because for some reason, they are the ones on the bottom.

^Yeah, pretty much this. It does no good for the game. At all. It only gives new players false hope, in that it makes them think they are good at sPvP, when they are really just following the zerg mentality.

8v8 is there because players love to win, and it’s a hell of a lot easier to do so when you have seven other people covering your back, compared to four. 5v5 will never be popular in casual, as long as 8v8 is there. And as long as 8v8 remains popular, then the majority of those who play it, are never going to be interested in playing tournaments. Because tournaments are only 5v5, which is a completely different game from 8v8.

I can see the idea behind 8v8, though. It was made to bring more players into a casual type game, before they take the step into a higher difficulty level, which is 5v5. The problem just is, that players have no reason to play casual 5v5, as it is exactly the same game as 8v8, except more difficult. And why would anyone play a more difficult game, if it doesn’t offer better rewards? Not to forget the fact that nine times out of ten, you aren’t playing 5v5 at all, but 3v2 or 2v1 instead.

8v8 was a good idea on paper, but ArenaNet needs to realize that it does nothing good for sPvP. That is, if they really want more players to play tournaments, and make this into a eSports game.

no one forces u to play 8v8, why complain about it? Spvp is only for and designed for glory farming and a place to kill time while waiting for Tpvp to start…

Even if they edited it to 5v5, you still wouldnt learn anything since you would still be playing with pugs that the only communication u have with is over the keyboard which is no where near the same as voice communication…

i dont play pve, why is pve still in the game? because other people do.
just because you dont play 8v8 does’nt mean its redundant,
i’ve not played a 5v5 yet, i’ll stick to my 8v8, hands off!