Guild Wars 2

Let’s start by clearing up some bad logic and that is people say “it’s not balanced around 1 on 1”. I’ve seen this unjustified response in a number of of MMOs.

Aion
GW1
WoW
EVE
etc.

…and now GW2

If there is no balance between professions individually, then you are unlikely to have balance between groups.

1 does not equal 3 and 6 does not equal 4 but 1+6 does equal 3+4. If we talk about just teams of two involving four professions (called 1, 3, 4 and 6), then the pairings I already mentioned are the only ones that will have balance. This is, of course, not including pitting two identical teams against each other (of course 1+3 = 1+3).

Just have designated dueling maps. Could even be zones within the maps. Take Queensdale. Trainer’s Terrace would make a great spot to duel. Of course there should be an autodecline option for it.

Justin ODell.9517:

You guys are making some really good points, thanks.

Do you guys think this should be a higher priority than other changes? Why?

To put it bluntly… PvE stats are different that sPVP and we do not wanna server transfer for a chance to face them in WvW

Moshari.8570:

Ugh. I have had so many bad experiences with Duel Harrassment it actually made me quit on game…mainly because I seemed to be good at dueling, which meant that then everyone and their brother wanted to duel me…even when I wasn’t in the mood for it…

I would only be okay with dueling if it had some very restrictive measures put into place. It needs to be something that stops the person doing the requests from otherwise harrassing the person being requested until they give in.

I think a system that could work would be “Party dueling” wherein it uses the current party system and you can only duel someone in a party with you. If you are already in a party, they cannot try to duel you or anything until you join their party….this at least gets rid of the annoying pop-up that many games throw at you… Duel Y / N? I got so sick of seeing that pop-up.

Not sure how to stop the chat harrassment of “duel me, duel me, XXXX is a chicken cause they wont duel me, just duel me….come on, don’t be a wuss, just duel me, please duel me. Hey guys, XXXX sucks cause they won’t duel me…Fight Meh! Fight Meh!” It would be annoying to continually have to block people.

Auto-decline requesting duels, if the player start to act like that way /ignore.

There you go.

With the recent announcement of the Megaserver can we please get open world dueling now so i can duel all my different buddies that ive made over the game that are mixed through out every server in the game, this would make us all happy, ive got so many friends on a bunch of different servers that always want to duel when ever we are matched together in WvW

Sure, but they need to keep it at very low priority to be put into the game, perhaps right above player and guild housing. Lots of other quality of life features, and game play features like new stories/maps need to be top priority.

GG, can the handful of people whom want this stop spamming the boards about it every week? Just making us despise the idea more and more.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

VOLKON.1290:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

VOLKON.1290:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

From the GW2 Beta Event Jon Petersen confirmed they want to add open world dueling. From the chatlog:

Now with mega server technology, open world dueling is my most requested feature!

In world dueling, not open world dueling. An arena type setting would cover this nicely without going against the cooperative world concept.

Read it again. He means open world by “in world”. The first thing he talks about is “empty servers, pvp ones”, thats the system that currently exist. cheers:)

Right. He’s talking about the sPvP servers that people can use (and now there are private servers which work even better). In world can be as simple as going to Southsun to a Consortium run dueling arena (as opposed as having to leave the world to go to the Mists).

But Southsun is part of the open world. It’s an open world map.

Yes, however an arena type setting (think Queen’s Gauntlet as a model to work from) could be accessed in Southsun. It would be “in world” in the sense that you don’t have to go to the PvP areas (the Mists) to get to it. It would provide a “pocket” of PvP separated from the actual PvE coded areas so you’d greatly reduce the risk of bugs slipping through. And with that, you could go all out adding things like I mentioned before – challenge boards, tournaments, even rankings and leader boards that display in the arena area for all to see. Plus, it would bring Southsun a renewed surge of activity.

Auto decline is not enough.

It has to be a toggle option, that u toggle it to show “you accept duel” before anyone can send u a duel request. So players don’t wanna duel is by default with the “wanna duel” function set as off.

Secondly, it has to be toggle option to see other player dueling or not. For me, i don’t want to see other player duel, just want to play my pve game peacefully.

Thirdly, dueling should be treat as PvP, keep the skin, use PvP gear and build instead. The reason behind this is the game is extremely different between PvP and PvE. Build-wise, I may like to have high support build for dungeon but I may prefer condition build for PvP. It will be a disadvantage when someone build for 1vs1 asking for a duel when the other player is with the group support gear and build. The result may also create a lot of class balancing issue that is unnecessary.

Justin ODell.9517:

Simplest answer I can give is that it just isn’t as high a priority as other things we have been working on.

Why do you feel custom arenas do not work for those that want to duel?

Dueling adds a lot of atmomsphere to PvE world, and allows players to test their WvW specs.

It’s always great fun to sit around watching people duel right outside of a town, you can’t get the same feel in a duel room. Duel rooms are relaxing, but they’re also very limited and can be easily trolled.

In PvE, ‘duel spots’ develop, WvW rivals can easily go head to head with their specific gear, and many folks can be easily nudged in the direction of PvP by trying duels on their already built PvE character.

I’ve just seen a lot of good come from dueling, the less people sit around on a ledge in the main hub occasionally chatting the better. Dueling will build it’s own community, and that’s what it’s all about; community. It would do wonders for me, anyone who says it’s ‘pointless’, ‘waste of time’ or ‘will create balance issues’ is looking at it all wrong. All I have to say is, the resources/time invested in implementing it would be worth it.

As to if this is a higher priority than other things, I think so. PvE to me isn’t as dynamic in the player interaction aspect, you’re sort of limited in how much you interact with everyone. Costume brawls are nice and all, but this adds a whole other level of interaction. It doesn’t make the base of PvE any better, but it certainly adds new possibilities for everyone leveling up. Random duels can sometimes turn into friendships/rivalries, I’ve seen it happen before. GW2 lacks in player interaction from my understanding, people seem to avoid it when they can.

TL;DR
With the trait changes to let us reset them anywhere, and the lack of basic player interaction in the leveling process, dueling would be fantastic to have in the open world. People will flock together to see duels happening, people will stop and maybe chat/join in if they see two friends dueling. It’s great a great community tool.

runeblade.7514:

style.6173:

Duels in PvE? No thanks. If I am in PvE, I want to do that. If I am in PvP, I want to do that.

Instead, I would like to see a 1v1 duel arena with associated leaderboards.

Is there a reason why can’t you say, “No thanks,” to people who request duel against you?

He just said so in this topic.

I wonder what all those people that constantly want PvP in the PvE world would say if each day a new thread popped up where people demand that we can go into PvP zones without beeing attacked by other players.

I mean .. hey .. we need that so badly, a non-pvp flag for PvP zones .. i never get my 100% map because since AION i will never again want to have to deal with PvP in any form.

Beldin.5498:

I wonder what all those people that constantly want PvP in the PvE world would say if each day a new thread popped up where people demand that we can go into PvP zones without beeing attacked by other players.

I mean .. hey .. we need that so badly, a non-pvp flag for PvP zones .. i never get my 100% map because since AION i will never again want to have to deal with PvP in any form.

personally, I’d have no problem with that. it defeats the purpose of having to participate two game modes for getting a legendary, but I wouldn’t care either way. but your argument is completely besides the point. there are no threads about this everyday, which means there’s not much interest in it, while vice versa there is a lot of interest since start in a dueling feature, which is why there are new threads all the time.

besides, most people wanting dueling do want it to be optional and only on demand. most of us asking for this feature do not want to force you or anyone else to pvp in a mostly pve environment (despite what others try to insinuate), but we do want to have the option to spend some time battling a likeminded friend while waiting around for one of the things where waiting is necessary due to map limitations. teq/wurm maps are full long before the events start, so we have to be there some time before, for wurm it’s usually 1 to 1.5 hours, or we won’t be able to participate. the time we spend there waiting could be used to have fun instead of just alt-tabbing out of the game and wait till it finally starts.

yes, there will be problems like we still have with the lfg tool, where people can destroy existing instances – how often have you been trolled by that bug? it’s very easy to abuse, yet I haven’t had it happen to me so far. some argue as soon as a dueling feature would be activated, they’d constantly get spammed for duelling requests or whispers or annoying mapchat. apart from the people who already like to annoy others via chat, whispers, emotes etc, I find it highly doubtful this will happen at all. why would a new feature turn half of the currently well behaved population into raving lunatics who only want to grief others?

Beldin.5498:

I wonder what all those people that constantly want PvP in the PvE world would say if each day a new thread popped up where people demand that we can go into PvP zones without beeing attacked by other players.

I mean .. hey .. we need that so badly, a non-pvp flag for PvP zones .. i never get my 100% map because since AION i will never again want to have to deal with PvP in any form.

I demand that in PvP/WvW, each player can toggle PvE mode on. In PvE mode you can not be attacked by other players and therefore focus on events, exploration and jumping puzzles.

Crazy idea: How about the ability to ask people to duel while you are in the Mists area of PvP. Some decent areas out that way and its something to do between actual matches with people that (wait for it) LIKE TO PvP already!

The duels can be friendly duels with no rankings, but ways for people to just have fun and test new things out without being in a structured match of any sort.

I would absolutely love a duel feature. The Pro’s drastically out weigh the cons and if it was possible to duel friends in PvE i might actually step out of The Mist’s and heck, maby even try Roleplaying.

Especially with the upcoming changes to the dye system and the new wardrobe dueling would be such a joy! Not to mention how easy it would be to help seamlessly introduce some of my apprehensive guild/friends into the fundamentals of PvP.

+1 For Duels.

I don’t see how this helps anyone other than a niche sPvP sub-community… and lets face it… the entire population of PvP is small to begin with.

I’m not opposed to it, but high priority? I mean… If I was some one’s boss and they came to me with that I would tell them yes on doing it, but no it’s not a top priority especially considering that you can already do it in a custom arena.

There are just too many other things which are far more important for this game that should be done before this.

Aberrant.6749:

I don’t see how this helps anyone other than a niche sPvP sub-community… and lets face it… the entire population of PvP is small to begin with.

I’m not opposed to it, but high priority? I mean… If I was some one’s boss and they came to me with that I would tell them yes on doing it, but no it’s not a top priority especially considering that you can already do it in a custom arena.

There are just too many other things which are far more important for this game that should be done before this.

actually, sPVP players are those that can get to duel with the most ease, by using an empty server (or custom arena) – they even can keep their builds and gear. wvw players (which I hope you don’t think are such a small sub-community) and pve players who don’t like largescale pvp or having to find a completely different build would benefit the most from such a feature. I don’t pvp or wvw that often anymore but I’d love to have a duel from time to time, because it’s not as serious as the other pvp modes available (no death, no capping, not running 15 minutes to the next zerg, no teamganking etc).

Aberrant.6749:

I don’t see how this helps anyone other than a niche sPvP sub-community… and lets face it… the entire population of PvP is small to begin with.

I’m not opposed to it, but high priority? I mean… If I was some one’s boss and they came to me with that I would tell them yes on doing it, but no it’s not a top priority especially considering that you can already do it in a custom arena.

There are just too many other things which are far more important for this game that should be done before this.

a) PvP is an important part of GW2

b) This will enable even more people to get into PvP. Perfect for Anet who are trying to get more people involved in it.

So, I would say it’s as high a priority as the recent feature patch.

Aberrant.6749:

I don’t see how this helps anyone other than a niche sPvP sub-community… and lets face it… the entire population of PvP is small to begin with.

You are absolutely right that the PvP population is small and nowhere near the size of the PvE crowd, but should that warrant holding out on a feature that could possibly bridge those gaps and ease some of the PvE players into PvP? This is a MMO game and I thought that these games were made to be multiplayer in order to build communities. Now if A-Net didn’t want to continue to build a PvP community, then why not just delete all forms of PvP? I feel like implementing anything that could build solid community, or even strengthen existing ones, should take top priority over any other change (i.e. living world that only promotes zergs and achievement farming).

With an open world dueling system anyone could use it and experience PvP in a casual manner without all the hassle one must go through now. It would be an on the fly system designed for fun, letting new people try PvP and having more experienced players hone their abilities. It would be a great way to build and strengthen our small PvP community which this game desperately needs.

Simple solution:

Create a few PVP rooms with a two person limit. Rooms already have max limits so the coding should not be much more than changing a few numbers. Done

In GW1 we had a lot of fun just chatting and sparring. Until the guild hall are finally made this would be a nice addition.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Beldin.5498:

I wonder what all those people that constantly want PvP in the PvE world would say if each day a new thread popped up where people demand that we can go into PvP zones without beeing attacked by other players.

I mean .. hey .. we need that so badly, a non-pvp flag for PvP zones .. i never get my 100% map because since AION i will never again want to have to deal with PvP in any form.

I demand that in PvP/WvW, each player can toggle PvE mode on. In PvE mode you can not be attacked by other players and therefore focus on events, exploration and jumping puzzles.

This kind of comment continues to be the problem with the anti-duelers in this thread. They keep thinking of dueling as being like WoW where you are just walking around and someone from the other side (alliance or horde) jumps out and kills you randomly.

Duels are just for 2 players to fight choose to fight each other. It does not mean the whole game becomes a free for all where any player can be targeted and attacked.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Simple solution:

Create a few PVP rooms with a two person limit. Rooms already have max limits so the coding should not be much more than changing a few numbers. Done

In GW1 we had a lot of fun just chatting and sparring. Until the guild hall are finally made this would be a nice addition.

This isn’t open world dueling. This is a custom arena. People want to be able to run around, see someone that looks awesome, think, ‘hey i want to see if this guy is good at fighting’, right-click, ‘request duel’, then the person can:

a) accept, the fight happens, the 2 people get to talk about how fun/lame taht was, life moves on, maybe they become friends, idk

b)decline, life moves on, both players continue about whatever they were doing, farming, living story, etc

The only way to put dueling into the game is if once a duel is accepted, the game enacts a sort of “PvP mode” that changes your armor and skills and weapons to the PvP versions (just like in custom arena)…

The biggest problem I see with open world dueling is the backlash once it is implemented. And in this instance I am talking about balance backlash. Right now we have two separate environments PVP and PvE/WvW. The reason there are two environments is because the skills / weapons / sigils / armor need to be balanced in two distinct ways. In PvP it is small-group or 1v1 play…so classes need to be balanced in that aspect of the game. In PVE and WVW it is mostly zerg-large group play. Especially now with mega-servers. The developers already struggle with this….because things that are balanced for group-play are not balanced for 1v1 and vice-versa.

SO the minute this gets implemented, (if they don’t use a “pvp mode”) there would be a ton of duelers all over the board saying things like “need to nerf Mesmers, they are OP dueling!” “I cannot beat a guardian in dueling, they are OP!! Please nerf vigor and reflect!” and countless other posts about how un-balanced the classes are for dueling.

That is my main worry with dueling…is that it is suddenly going to take a ton of developer time that could be used on adding more dungeons / areas / fixing balance issues in WvW and PvE…and more quality of life improvements. They almost need a separate team just for this…like they have a separate team for PvP…UNLESS they make it use the PvP skills (and let the PvP team handle it).

So for me the Priority of adding Dueling….WAY low…because as soon as you do, you now have to commit way more dev time afterwards than the simple implementation.

Mash Hog.5672:

@Justin ODell

Justin, as owner of what probably is the most active PvP Server in North America,
[1 v 1] GASM’s PvP Arena let me just briefly go over my experience with moderating the 1v1 PvP environment in your custom Arenas.

My Arena is active maybe 18-19 hours of the day in which 4-5 hours it is left empty. Every day, I wake up to 4-5 mails begging me to kick troll X or troll Y from my server because they’re ruining everyone’s duels. Then troll X tells me and says that Troll Y started it. Then we have multiple people joining the server to just to ruin everyone else’s fun. Sure, I could ban all of these people… BUT THE BAN LIST GETS FULL AFTER 25 PEOPLE! I have to ban 5-10 people almost everyday and unban those people at the top of the list. There is NO way I can keep the PvP arenas untrolled!

This needs to be bronzed, for two reasons:

1. It shows some of the player-created problems that plague the custom arena feature.
2. It demonstrates that no gaming population is free of those who prefer to go out of their way to ruin others’ gaming experience.

Those who claim that the negative experiences people claim to be associated with a dueling feature should reflect on the following points:

1. Bad behavior in a gaming population happens, and is sometimes associated with PvP. It’s a shock, I know — but this report is from someone who went out of his way to enable dueling for people, so there’s no possibility of his being anti-dueling.
2. I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that most who claim that rudeness associated with dueling is blown out of proportion would — if there were dueling — be running around with Accept Duels enabled, and would be accepting duels if they were offered. They would thus not experience most of the bad behavior, because that behavior starts after it comes out that Accept Duels is off, or a duel is refused.
3. Sticking your head in the sand and declaring that bad behavior doesn’t happen is not going to convince anti-dueling posters to change their minds, nor will it (hopefully) fool the developer into thinking that the population of this game is different. A more understanding attitude towards the problems — such as has been exhibited by some of the pro-dueling faction — is more likely to convince.

It’s strange.

It seems like the several reiterated reasons players against Duels are having, are problems that not only exsist already but have exsisted across all Massively Mutiplayer Games games since the first were designed. The more steps taken to prevent harassment the more creative hostile players become. Unfortunately it is human nature, but this fact should not deny or inhibit the concept/implementation of potential features.

Most reasons appear to come from emotional based situations or past experiences. Which, in ANY social game can only be curbed never removed no matter how much development time is spent. Even in games without the option to communicate with text or even gestures will still have some form of hostility/rudeness, “trolling” or “toxicity”.

I’m not saying anything new here.. I guess I was just contemplating a conclusive “Pro’s vs Con’s to Dueling” and what that list might have on it. As I have said several times I am completely excited by the concept of open world dueling. But in no way do I believe all players feel the way I do about it.

Perhaps instead of simply saying “Please no dueling”. There could be steps taken to find out what needs to be done to make dueling work. Example: If someone said “implement unicorns for everyone to ride.” I would say “Pease don’t implement Unicorns for everyone to ride.” But if I could dye those unicorns any color and give them astral fire writhing from their exposed ribcages I’d change my tune. Anyways.

Since most of the posts in these related topics are biased it would be interesting to hear what some of the developers from Anet think about what the “Pro’s vs Con’s to Dueling” would entail instead of the other way around.

Oranisagu.3706:

actually, sPVP players are those that can get to duel with the most ease, by using an empty server (or custom arena) – they even can keep their builds and gear. wvw players (which I hope you don’t think are such a small sub-community) and pve players who don’t like largescale pvp or having to find a completely different build would benefit the most from such a feature. I don’t pvp or wvw that often anymore but I’d love to have a duel from time to time, because it’s not as serious as the other pvp modes available (no death, no capping, not running 15 minutes to the next zerg, no teamganking etc).

PvP has custom. WvW-ers have the OS. PvE only players shouldn’t care much. I just don’t see much value in it being a high priority.

Cynic.4805:

You are absolutely right that the PvP population is small and nowhere near the size of the PvE crowd, but should that warrant holding out on a feature that could possibly bridge those gaps and ease some of the PvE players into PvP? This is a MMO game and I thought that these games were made to be multiplayer in order to build communities. Now if A-Net didn’t want to continue to build a PvP community, then why not just delete all forms of PvP? I feel like implementing anything that could build solid community, or even strengthen existing ones, should take top priority over any other change (i.e. living world that only promotes zergs and achievement farming).

With an open world dueling system anyone could use it and experience PvP in a casual manner without all the hassle one must go through now. It would be an on the fly system designed for fun, letting new people try PvP and having more experienced players hone their abilities. It would be a great way to build and strengthen our small PvP community which this game desperately needs.

I like how apparently a “yea it would be nice, but other stuff is more important” type of post gets a “oh just delete all PvP and WvW then” type of response. Over reaction much?

WvW is doing fine and the new rewards will attract more people into PvP.

If clicking two buttons is too much to ask of some one then idk what to even say…

Wolf.5816:

Since most of the posts in these related topics are biased it would be interesting to hear what some of the developers from Anet think about what the “Pro’s vs Con’s to Dueling” would entail instead of the other way around.

Here’s an interview with Colin Johanson where he says he would like to add open world duels and acknowledges that custom pvp is an awkward work around. These videos link weird on the forums so if it doesn’t start from the correct time, he says it around 14:11.

IMO, it sounds like it was just one of the many features they wanted but didn’t get finished in time for launch.

“In the long term, we would absolutely like to have some form of dueling in the game or in the open world where you can challenge and fight other people.”

Im Mudbone.1437:

Long story cut short is the FACT, 1v1 combat IS PvP so keep it seperate from PvE, plain and simple to understand, even my pre-teen grandkids know and realizes this.

Same way as fighting Svanir, Chieftain and Guild Lord is PvE.

Beldin.5498:

I wonder what all those people that constantly want PvP in the PvE world would say if each day a new thread popped up where people demand that we can go into PvP zones without beeing attacked by other players.

I mean .. hey .. we need that so badly, a non-pvp flag for PvP zones .. i never get my 100% map because since AION i will never again want to have to deal with PvP in any form.

I don’t understand this logic.

By that logic, I should be able to flag myself to stop PvE mobs from attacking me.

Even if dueling is added in the open world, you will not be attacked by other players randomly.

Aberrant.6749:

WvW-ers have the OS.

I’ll sit here and let you ponder for a few minutes why OS definitely is not a replacement for duelling in WvW.

PvE only players shouldn’t care much.

Nice of you to speak for a multi-million crowd. Do you desire the PvEer presidency, milord?

Can we all just agree that there are no valid reasons to be against dueling, and that everyone is either trolling or a kitten. This shouldn’t even be a discussion, it is just the same “but i dont want to duel therefore it sucks and i dont want it blah blah” vs actual reasons for why it will be great.

this game isn’t balanced around teams…let alone dueling lol

Zirith.6429:

Can we all just agree that there are no valid reasons to be against dueling, and that everyone is either trolling or a kitten. This shouldn’t even be a discussion, it is just the same “but i dont want to duel therefore it sucks and i dont want it blah blah” vs actual reasons for why it will be great.

well, there are some concerns, mainly that people will spam duel requests (which is why we need an auto-decline option) or even start verbal abuse. but if that happens, its very easy to just report them and block them. but it seems many answers here are rather emotional and rather often on the lines of ‘I once got ganked, I never want to see pvp again, dueling is stupid and everyone wanting dueling just wants to destroy my game’.

and another reason FOR dueling: some wvw players like to duel their enemies in organized little contests. I found it to be one of the most fun experiences to be sitting behind the windmill next to ‘red’ players watching our respective allies fighting below and later have a duel myself. we couldn’t even communicate properly, because ANet thought it necessary to disable all chat between players of opposing sides, yet it was a friendly environment and nobody felt the need to break those unspoken rules of non-engagement outside the duels – until a zerg arrived and ganked the duelers and bystanders from the opposing two servers.
THAT was harassment, and it destroyed a fun afternoon for lots of players.
people saying duelling would only cause harassment are actually saying: me being harrassed is worse than someone else being harrassed
in reality, any personal harassment due to a dueling system could easily be reported and hopefully ANet does react to those reports. the situation above though is very different – reporting is practically impossible and it’s way to easy to just claim ignorance and say ‘we thought they were enemies’.

we need better options to stop people from trolling others, and it’s a lot easier to report someone for trolling if they continually invite someone to duels, whisper them or write in mapchat than reporting a commander leading a zerg to a group of duelers – it could have been an accident or he just thought it’s wvw, there’s no place for fraternization with the enemy.

Jamais vu.5284:

PvE only players shouldn’t care much.

Nice of you to speak for a multi-million crowd. Do you desire the PvEer presidency, milord?

He said, “Shouldn’t.” So it doesn’t matter what the PvE crowd thinks. He believes that there is no reason for PvEr’s to care much about dueling. If they have negative thoughts, then it is rubbish.

Scrambles.2604:

Wolf.5816:

Since most of the posts in these related topics are biased it would be interesting to hear what some of the developers from Anet think about what the “Pro’s vs Con’s to Dueling” would entail instead of the other way around.

Here’s an interview with Colin Johanson where he says he would like to add open world duels and acknowledges that custom pvp is an awkward work around. These videos link weird on the forums so if it doesn’t start from the correct time, he says it around 14:11.

IMO, it sounds like it was just one of the many features they wanted but didn’t get finished in time for launch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU

“In the long term, we would absolutely like to have some form of dueling in the game or in the open world where you can challenge and fight other people.”

Thank you, perhaps they’ll let us know their opinions on these kind of matters in the future even if just for curiosity’s sake.

Zirith.6429:

Can we all just agree that there are no valid reasons to be against dueling, and that everyone is either trolling or a kitten. This shouldn’t even be a discussion, it is just the same “but i dont want to duel therefore it sucks and i dont want it blah blah” vs actual reasons for why it will be great.

You obviously didn’t read my post: I’ll re-post it for you…since it is an extremely valid reason to not have dueling (in the sense that many of you want it) while at the same time giving a possible alternative to allow dueling.

The only way to put dueling into the game is if once a duel is accepted, the game enacts a sort of “PvP mode” that changes your armor and skills and weapons to the PvP versions (just like in custom arena)…
The biggest problem I see with open world dueling is the backlash once it is implemented. And in this instance I am talking about balance backlash. Right now we have two separate environments PVP and PvE/WvW. The reason there are two environments is because the skills / weapons / sigils / armor need to be balanced in two distinct ways. In PvP it is small-group or 1v1 play…so classes need to be balanced in that aspect of the game. In PVE and WVW it is mostly zerg-large group play. Especially now with mega-servers. The developers already struggle with this….because things that are balanced for group-play are not balanced for 1v1 and vice-versa.
SO the minute this gets implemented, (if they don’t use a “pvp mode”) there would be a ton of duelers all over the board saying things like “need to nerf Mesmers, they are OP dueling!” “I cannot beat a guardian in dueling, they are OP!! Please nerf vigor and reflect!” and countless other posts about how un-balanced the classes are for dueling.
That is my main worry with dueling…is that it is suddenly going to take a ton of developer time that could be used on adding more dungeons / areas / fixing balance issues in WvW and PvE…and more quality of life improvements. They almost need a separate team just for this…like they have a separate team for PvP…UNLESS they make it use the PvP skills (and let the PvP team handle it).

Dueling in open world would be kinda cool considering the great locations on the map, perhaps there should be a purchasable item that allows players to duel, like belchers bluff kits. I also think players should suffer armor cost if they are spiked.

Moshari.8570:

That is my main worry with dueling…is that it is suddenly going to take a ton of developer time that could be used on adding more dungeons / areas / fixing balance issues in WvW and PvE…and more quality of life improvements.

Um… we are currently getting balance patches once every like 6 months. I doubt they will give more resources to a balance team knowing anet.

Regardless, this game isn’t balanced around 1v1 so their will be some overpowered classes however, dueling is a side feature with no rewards or other similar gains.

On top of that, I’m sure the majority of those who would be complaining are the ones not willing to test new builds and other approaches in order to beat some overpowered class. This game has a lot of unexplored diversity in builds and dueling might just open up another way of discovering those.

runeblade.7514:

style.6173:

Duels in PvE? No thanks. If I am in PvE, I want to do that. If I am in PvP, I want to do that.

Instead, I would like to see a 1v1 duel arena with associated leaderboards.

Is there a reason why can’t you say, “No thanks,” to people who request duel against you?

If I can set it to automatically decline, sure. I’d be fine with that.

Moshari.8570:

Zirith.6429:

Can we all just agree that there are no valid reasons to be against dueling, and that everyone is either trolling or a kitten. This shouldn’t even be a discussion, it is just the same “but i dont want to duel therefore it sucks and i dont want it blah blah” vs actual reasons for why it will be great.

You obviously didn’t read my post: I’ll re-post it for you…since it is an extremely valid reason to not have dueling (in the sense that many of you want it) while at the same time giving a possible alternative to allow dueling.

The only way to put dueling into the game is if once a duel is accepted, the game enacts a sort of “PvP mode” that changes your armor and skills and weapons to the PvP versions (just like in custom arena)…
The biggest problem I see with open world dueling is the backlash once it is implemented. And in this instance I am talking about balance backlash. Right now we have two separate environments PVP and PvE/WvW. The reason there are two environments is because the skills / weapons / sigils / armor need to be balanced in two distinct ways. In PvP it is small-group or 1v1 play…so classes need to be balanced in that aspect of the game. In PVE and WVW it is mostly zerg-large group play. Especially now with mega-servers. The developers already struggle with this….because things that are balanced for group-play are not balanced for 1v1 and vice-versa.
SO the minute this gets implemented, (if they don’t use a “pvp mode”) there would be a ton of duelers all over the board saying things like “need to nerf Mesmers, they are OP dueling!” “I cannot beat a guardian in dueling, they are OP!! Please nerf vigor and reflect!” and countless other posts about how un-balanced the classes are for dueling.
That is my main worry with dueling…is that it is suddenly going to take a ton of developer time that could be used on adding more dungeons / areas / fixing balance issues in WvW and PvE…and more quality of life improvements. They almost need a separate team just for this…like they have a separate team for PvP…UNLESS they make it use the PvP skills (and let the PvP team handle it).

So in other words, you are afraid of people’s opinions.

Yes please. It’s really annoying and intrusive we can’t duel people in the open world. Please give us the tools to have fun. It doesnt hurt anybody. The world is so static as it is. There is so few types of events people can do out in this living breathing world. our guild wants to do our duel initiations for guild promotions.

dueling is unbalanced but fun.

Zirith.6429:

Can we all just agree that there are no valid reasons to be against dueling, and that everyone is either trolling or a kitten. This shouldn’t even be a discussion, it is just the same “but i dont want to duel therefore it sucks and i dont want it blah blah” vs actual reasons for why it will be great.

So, are you saying that everyone that doesn’t agree with what you want is a troll or a kitten?

I think those with that opinion are the ones that have no valid reason to be in this thread, but I’m not here to denigrate anyone, and you are free to post constructively as well. The only reason I posted before in this thread was to help show people the concerns against it, and the problems that must be overcome to implement.

There are many actual reasons against it, but some seem to dismiss them and their concerns completely, or twist what was actually said. I mean, I raised a number of issues that have been expressed by others, or that developers would have to consider regardless if any player cared or not, and one line essentially taken out of context was basically used to invalidate everything. That doesn’t help discussion at all. Although, to be fair, maybe that was the only point they questioned? I didn’t ask. Either way, they didn’t seem to understand what I wanted to convey.

But to be honest, I saw this thread as dying, which was fine by me. Perhaps I shouldn’t bother posting in hopes this one would go away, but I wanted to respond to this. Besides, it isn’t like it would be replaced in no time by another one right? (sarcasm aside, it probably already was, but I don’t troll the forums)

Moshari.8570:

Zirith.6429:

Can we all just agree that there are no valid reasons to be against dueling, and that everyone is either trolling or a kitten. This shouldn’t even be a discussion, it is just the same “but i dont want to duel therefore it sucks and i dont want it blah blah” vs actual reasons for why it will be great.

You obviously didn’t read my post: I’ll re-post it for you…since it is an extremely valid reason to not have dueling (in the sense that many of you want it) while at the same time giving a possible alternative to allow dueling.

The only way to put dueling into the game is if once a duel is accepted, the game enacts a sort of “PvP mode” that changes your armor and skills and weapons to the PvP versions (just like in custom arena)…
The biggest problem I see with open world dueling is the backlash once it is implemented. And in this instance I am talking about balance backlash. Right now we have two separate environments PVP and PvE/WvW. The reason there are two environments is because the skills / weapons / sigils / armor need to be balanced in two distinct ways. In PvP it is small-group or 1v1 play…so classes need to be balanced in that aspect of the game. In PVE and WVW it is mostly zerg-large group play. Especially now with mega-servers. The developers already struggle with this….because things that are balanced for group-play are not balanced for 1v1 and vice-versa.
SO the minute this gets implemented, (if they don’t use a “pvp mode”) there would be a ton of duelers all over the board saying things like “need to nerf Mesmers, they are OP dueling!” “I cannot beat a guardian in dueling, they are OP!! Please nerf vigor and reflect!” and countless other posts about how un-balanced the classes are for dueling.
That is my main worry with dueling…is that it is suddenly going to take a ton of developer time that could be used on adding more dungeons / areas / fixing balance issues in WvW and PvE…and more quality of life improvements. They almost need a separate team just for this…like they have a separate team for PvP…UNLESS they make it use the PvP skills (and let the PvP team handle it).

That is probably the worst, most uneducated, and ridiculous post I have ever read. Dueling won’t change the “game mode” it will just allow you to attack the other player, the whole point is to fight each other with pve gear anywhere you want at anytime. We do not need to worry about repair costs because they are becoming free. You can even respec anywhere you want now after the feature patch. People have always complained, look at the 400 posts of garbage in this thread just whining because they are like you. If you actually think the devs will even consider making balance changes off of pve dueling results then you are probably too far gone to understand what I am saying…

PS the 2 posts responding to my post with nonsensical opinionated complaints are exactly why I made the post, there is no point, please stop.

Jamais vu.5284:

Aberrant.6749:

WvW-ers have the OS.

I’ll sit here and let you ponder for a few minutes why OS definitely is not a replacement for duelling in WvW.

PvE only players shouldn’t care much.

Nice of you to speak for a multi-million crowd. Do you desire the PvEer presidency, milord?

Idk what’s wrong with the OS for WvW dueling, I do it all the time. There are also areas that people use inside of “actual” WvW such as behind the windmill. It’s not like the options don’t exist.

PvE only =‘s no PvP, I don’t see why dueling would matter to them at all… and they still have the OS and custom arenas if they do want to.

The only people this would help would be people who are unwilling to click a couple of buttons or just want to duel in some random PvE area. I don’t see those as being top priorities. It would be fun, but nothing that needs to be done asap by any means. There are still far more important things they could spend their time and money on.

But yea, nice try rebutting my points without making any points at all >.>

I would totally agree with "“The game is not balanced around 1v1, some classes are going to be more OP than others” "
This would show how horrible the game balance actually is, they don’t want that.

SO IF the game isn’t made to be balanced around 1v1. where is the “play as you would like to”, or is their idea of “Fun” is giving skins for being worse than other classes out of the gate.

For the last few months i done the spvp daily on an ele with every possible build, and that time spent IS the worse time of any game i ever played.

And no reason pointing fingers on the next patch. cause if we wait 1year between these “balance” patches it only shows how bad of a state it’s at if it takes that long to fix it.
So maybe someone needs to check their “priorities” when it comes to what suppose to be a competitive area of the game when designing some classes out of the gate worse.

HallusH.3987:

I would totally agree with "“The game is not balanced around 1v1, some classes are going to be more OP than others” "
This would show how horrible the game balance actually is, they don’t want that.

SO IF the game isn’t made to be balanced around 1v1. where is the “play as you would like to”, or is their idea of “Fun” is giving skins for being worse than other classes out of the gate.

For the last few months i done the spvp daily on an ele with every possible build, and that time spent IS the worse time of any game i ever played.

And no reason pointing fingers on the next patch. cause if we wait 1year between these “balance” patches it only shows how bad of a state it’s at if it takes that long to fix it.
So maybe someone needs to check their “priorities” when it comes to what suppose to be a competitive area of the game when designing some classes out of the gate worse.

Is it totally balanced, no. I don’t know of any game that really is. Is it horribly balanced? IMO no, but certain 1v1 matchups are quite hard. Even in a 2v2 fight the game balances out far better and the number of uneven matchups drops quite a bit.

The dueling that people are requesting is also PvE dueling which has had no balancing considerations.

Closest thing would be WvW dueling. They added an area for GvG/dueling so they don’t seem to be opposed to it or are trying to hide anything.

I agree that balancing should be done more often and should be a higher priority, just not for dueling in PvE.

IMO it’s more that resources would be devoted towards something that basically already exists. Not saying it wouldn’t be nice though.

I skimmed through the topic, and I have a point that I think hasn’t been raised yet – dueling would increase the realism of the game, because, in a way, we already have it, but for some reason only with NPCs.

There are hearts where you have to successfully block the attack of an NPC, or can challenge NPCs in town to a fight. There are skill challenges like this, too.

I understand that the difference here is that other folks in the world can join in on your “NPC duel” but honestly the concept behind the events/stories is really in the same spirit as dueling would be. “I want to learn how to fight better,” “show me what you’ve got,” “help train the troops,” etc. Why can we challenge NPCs, who then become friendly as soon as the fight is over, but not each other? That’s just a silly inconsistency, in my opinion.

I am a fan of having real dueling in the open world, because it would add action, activity, and randomness to the world the same as the costume brawls do. I am fine if there are some limitations put in place (you can only issue so many challenges per hour to non-friended, non-partied, or non-guilded people, dueling is banned in certain areas, etc.).

I also think it would be fun if certain NPCs would challenge you to a duel (where other players couldn’t intervene). Those challenges could be automatically declined same as player challenges if there was an option to turn them off, or there could be a separate option to turn off NPC duels. ArenaNet could have a lot of fun with this, though – maybe some NPCs only challenge you if you are 80, or if you aren’t 80, or if you are a Charr, or if you have met before, or if they just finished an event that failed, or if you aren’t in a party, or if you happen to equip some type of item they find offensive (like an eye patch), etc. You could unlock different dialogues if you win a duel with the NPCs.

I also feel like griefing over duels is more a reflection of the game’s community than the dueling feature, and that anyone who would cause that type of issue is someone you are likely to add to your block list, anyway.

Lastly, duels are, IMO, for spontaneous fun, and there shouldn’t be any achievements or formality surrounding them, besides maybe “participate in X duels” or something like that.

I think it is pretty simple calculus.
You will make improvements focusing on other game modes.
With dueling you create a new game mode, even if a minor one.
That creates more buzz and stickiness to the game.

It also integrates with getting to know other classes better and certainly helps progress casual players to competitive games. What is better than dueling the same class and getting advice on what you are doing right or wrong to improve your play so you feel a bit more confident delving into pvp for example?

There are more good ripple effects that come from this being a priority than many other changes (in my analysis at least).

Peacenote.1698:

I skimmed through the topic, and I have a point that I think hasn’t been raised yet – dueling would increase the realism of the game, because, in a way, we already have it, but for some reason only with NPCs.

There are hearts where you have to successfully block the attack of an NPC, or can challenge NPCs in town to a fight. There are skill challenges like this, too.

I understand that the difference here is that other folks in the world can join in on your “NPC duel” but honestly the concept behind the events/stories is really in the same spirit as dueling would be. “I want to learn how to fight better,” “show me what you’ve got,” “help train the troops,” etc. Why can we challenge NPCs, who then become friendly as soon as the fight is over, but not each other? That’s just a silly inconsistency, in my opinion.

I am a fan of having real dueling in the open world, because it would add action, activity, and randomness to the world the same as the costume brawls do. I am fine if there are some limitations put in place (you can only issue so many challenges per hour to non-friended, non-partied, or non-guilded people, dueling is banned in certain areas, etc.).

I also think it would be fun if certain NPCs would challenge you to a duel (where other players couldn’t intervene). Those challenges could be automatically declined same as player challenges if there was an option to turn them off, or there could be a separate option to turn off NPC duels. ArenaNet could have a lot of fun with this, though – maybe some NPCs only challenge you if you are 80, or if you aren’t 80, or if you are a Charr, or if you have met before, or if they just finished an event that failed, or if you aren’t in a party, or if you happen to equip some type of item they find offensive (like an eye patch), etc. You could unlock different dialogues if you win a duel with the NPCs.

I also feel like griefing over duels is more a reflection of the game’s community than the dueling feature, and that anyone who would cause that type of issue is someone you are likely to add to your block list, anyway.

Lastly, duels are, IMO, for spontaneous fun, and there shouldn’t be any achievements or formality surrounding them, besides maybe “participate in X duels” or something like that.

Very well put, Dueling would breath a lot of life into this game. Being able to walk into a tavern with two people brawling bare-fisted useing Enviromental Weapons like planks and broken bottles to duel one another just for fun would greatly please me.

The possibilities would be endless…

Justin ODell.9517:

Simplest answer I can give is that it just isn’t as high a priority as other things we have been working on.

Why do you feel custom arenas do not work for those that want to duel?

I own a custom arena..

never use it.. ever.. well on monday for 2 hours on spvp night.. but other then that.. wouldn’t use it..
The whole idea of custom arena’s is great, but not if you have to pay for it.
Why not simply create a few servers with different setups.? any other pvp game in the world has a variety of pvp games, composition, gamemodes you name it.. all for free, and all used..

1v1 no map rotation – 3 map rotation. no respawn time – wave/individual
2v2 no map rotation – 5 map rotation. "
3v3 no map rotation – 5 map rotation. "
etc..

It really isn’t that hard to create it.
It’s just a matter of letting the custom arena stuff go.. (kill your gem store babies)