Guild Wars 2

Ok so many of these threads are complain threads and I myself have done a few. I just would like to take a moment and talk about a match i had today with a ESL player.

I and guild team mate where in team speak and we are duo queing. The start of the match it says my name and it says Zoose E. I thought it was Zoose from team PZ and then i saw the PZ above his head and so yeah it was him. So during the match im telling my guild team member to target everyone else but him in the mid fight. We had 2 necros, I was on ele, guild team mate was on warrior and we had 1 dh. They had 2 scrappers (1 was zoose) and 1 mesmer, 1 warrior and a necro.

So we cap home and win the mid fight. This is where i see certain players just being better and having the skill difference. People talk about carrying bads etc etc and not being able to win vs premades. We were winning about 350-280 and it turned. We had a 3 vs 3 at far and they won, they had 2 instant rezzes ( i still dont know how this happens) and they won far i come off respawn and i hold mid as long as i could.

Zoose was engage with a necro in a 1 vs 1 on home and i sent my guild team mate to help. Zoose was able to kill the necro and sustain long enough for help to come from mid were we lost and they held a 3 cap from that point.

My friend in TS was like wow he is good.

I just wanted to share this because so many people talk about this game being no skill, its all premade ts, build comp, match making etc etc etc. Here you had a ESL player solo queing in Diamond and he just took over by winning a fight that 98% of the players in this game cant.

That’s a nice story, but as you said you lost the team fight at far and your necro lost the 1vs1 to a scrapper. I have been in a similar situation where I have won my 1vs1’s on home/far but my team lost.

Winning one 1vs1 is not very strong evidence that a single player can carry a team, and certainly doesn’t prove that he carried the team in that game either.

They are ESL player for a reason, skill and experience level will reflect instantly.

You can win vs pre-mades, simply when you out rotate them and know how to play your class efficiently, considering everyone in your team is “up there” with skills.

Yasha.5963:

That’s a nice story, but as you said you lost the team fight at far and your necro lost the 1vs1 to a scrapper. I have been in a similar situation where I have won my 1vs1’s on home/far but my team lost.

Winning one 1vs1 is not very strong evidence that a single player can carry a team, and certainly doesn’t prove that he carried the team in that game either.

Yes you are correct, winning a fight doesnt mean anything. I also would like to give I and my team mate some credit. I have mad legendary the past 2 seasons and our guild team has made it as a top 25 for the Gold Reward Trophy.

But he didnt win a 1 vs 1, He won a 1 vs 2. Winning a 1 vs 1/ 2 vs 2/ 3 vs 3 is every game. Players who know how to rotate can win games by simply being faster to fight and creating 2 vs 1, 3 vs 2.

He was in a 1 vs 2 and was able to kill the necro and he wasnt decapped which is very different then winning a 1 vs 1 in every aspect.

kdaddy.5431:

Zoose was engage with a necro in a 1 vs 1 on home and i sent my guild team mate to help. Zoose was able to kill the necro and sustain long enough for help to come from mid were we lost and they held a 3 cap from that point.

It tells a tall tale when Zoose takes down a necro AND a warrior(which he essentially did, if not actually) on an engi, which is notably weak against conditions. It’s not all “premade beats soloQ”, skill is in there too. Nothing beats good rotational skills and good 1v1 skills. Being where you need to be is the #1 skill a PvP’er needs. (and surviving it)

a ddos on stream gave esl players the win recently. there are more such facts, like cheaters who documented their time in gw. certain websites. and the general mood and com in gw, which resembles counter strike now, srsly. eating dmg from an entire team while being able to kill and instantrezz fe is as far away from skill as possible. you dont need skill when others cant harm you. and all you need, is to oneshot everybody.

it should be obvious, that there seem to be like huge gear differences even amongst the same classes. some are superresilient while dealing huge amounts of dmg, and others playing the same build are nowhere near that, even though they can move and evade and track enemies way better. also, i dont get those weird crashes to desktop i am unable to replicate outside of pvp against them.

the best pvpers i know were calm people who would never ever brag about their skills, contrary to those fake scriptkiddies who constantly bark and cry around. gw is nice for casual pvp, but whoever takes it srsly doesnt know whats going on or has issues.

maybe that zoose guy is legit, idk idc. it doesnt matter anyway because legit competition has been compromised way to much in this game. its like believing a liar. thats just stupid.

Skill: It´s all about winning a 1 vs. 2 or 2 vs. 3 and so on so ele and scrapper do shine here.

Then it´s all abou rezzing. The insta rezzes came from the engi i think and engis are very good in this.

Had a situation myself in last ruby match to diamond. Skirmish on a point 3 vs 3. 2 of my fellow necros were downed side by side and an enemy warrior had been downed, too.

I could activate stealth gyro between the two necros to stealth them both and rezz one after another. I could contemporaneously stomp the enemy warrior with function gyro.

I love this and want to see it more often especially from engineers. But Im already happy when people start to rezz and stomp sometimes though.

As i play with Elix S, a lil variant if the necro are not downed side by side is to throw Elixier S on one necro to stealth them and activate s-gyro on the other. Sometimes this is time enough to rezz them both, too. Maybe this is skill maybe not, i don´t care. I just want my team mates to stay alive and confuse the enemy team :P

i just fought an engi, he got downed several times within secs and raised instantly, i mean instantly and several times. he became invisible too, and i crashed into desktop. sure sign of “skill”.

Oh Khales… every time your beat its because the other guy is cheating. Every time you win its because of your skill.

when did i ever claim that ? i just want nice matches, win or lose. most matches are kittenmatches though. and skill means nothing here, because this game is neither balanced nor clean.

If you are a esl player, in diamond you are gonna win 100% vs any other team in diamond. Come back with a good example when that esl player face 5 esl players and have no esl players in his party whatssoever but himself. Lets see how well he carry his team when he face a team of higher mmr + equal skill of his own and he can see how his teammates melt in seconds and a 100% loss.

What people dont seem to understand is, its not about how good you are. Its about fair mm aka season 1 mm we had. Season 3 puts higher mmr team vs a lower mmr team by purpose. A esl player which has reached the highest skill cap, will never have issues when he face people of lower mmr. You even told us that dood killed 2 people on his own…He doesnt even face his own mmr, always lower. He probably have the highest mmr you ever can get, so he will always face lower mmr teams.

sanctuary has a good point, given the way the MMR matches players (i.e. it creates a team that’s likely to win and a team that likely to lose within a range of pips) the high MMR player is always going to be on the team that’s likely to win because his high MMR won’t fit on the losing side in that range of pips.

It would explain the huge win streaks some high MMR players get, the huge lose streaks low MMR players get and also the almost as frustrating win a pip, lose a pip, win a pip, lose a pip, win a pip, lose a pip pattern that average MMR players get. Slowly bobbing your way to Ruby like flotsam bobbing towards the beach.

Pifil.5193:

It would explain the huge win streaks some high MMR players get, the huge lose streaks low MMR players get and also the almost as frustrating win a pip, lose a pip, win a pip, lose a pip, win a pip, lose a pip pattern that average MMR players get. Slowly bobbing your way to Ruby like flotsam bobbing towards the beach.

And from the conclusions that you’ve laid out (accurately, from my own observations), the match making is doing its job: getting good players out of the beginning leagues faster…. for a time. I think the flaw in the current system is that it doesn’t really have a concept of “early season volatility” where it should have a formula to separate the better players quicker, but after it has done so, it needs to start prioritizing fair matchups. As it stands now, it seems as though it’s just a constant snowball effect for players on the extreme sides of mmr.

@alemfi
Its doing a terrible job if it is about showing skill. Either you have a pip system or you have a mmr system. It doesnt work good with both. In season 3 you will progress slower than any other season so far because you most of the time face higher mmr groups in higher divisions. I was a fast progressor and when i got to ruby after 3 days after season launched i kept facing higher mmr teams even if fighting those werent difficult for me per se, but difficult for my team bc lower mmr vs higher mmr.

This season required more matches played for me than any of the other two because of that problem. I even had to take a 2 week break so my mmr group could catch up. If we would have had season 1 mm i could have made a difference as a player but now my contribution doesnt matter and i cant raise my mmr either in this season 3 system to make my matches better. Reason for this is, in higher divisions i always face higher mmr groups and i basically have to sit around waiting for my mmr range group to catch up to have “fair” matches. When the game cant find my range group it matches me with lower division players vs diamonds. Ive been diamond for almost 2 weeks already and most of the time ive had to wait for my mmr range to catch up or my matches are completely one sided. Thats how sick this season is, and forced me again to take another break from season 3 and wait for my so called mmr range to catch up.

Im not gonna grind matches just because anet cant give us a true fair mm aka season 1.

sanctuary.1068:

If you are a esl player, in diamond you are gonna win 100% vs any other team in diamond. Come back with a good example when that esl player face 5 esl players and have no esl players in his party whatssoever but himself. Lets see how well he carry his team when he face a team of higher mmr + equal skill of his own and he can see how his teammates melt in seconds and a 100% loss.

What people dont seem to understand is, its not about how good you are. Its about fair mm aka season 1 mm we had. Season 3 puts higher mmr team vs a lower mmr team by purpose. A esl player which has reached the highest skill cap, will never have issues when he face people of lower mmr. You even told us that dood killed 2 people on his own…He doesnt even face his own mmr, always lower. He probably have the highest mmr you ever can get, so he will always face lower mmr teams.

This is such utter misconception. If you are an ESL player you win 100% of the time?
LOL. People want to make these absurd claims to justify something.

You want proof? I would guess my MMR is way higher than you guys. Check all the videos in my youtube channel.

I winstreaked emerald to ruby facing ESL/AG/HIGH MMR players SINCE THE BEGINNING OF SEASON 3.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUJoY954MlnE7OCCO8Wd1Kg

Granted I admit I didnt play well on some of the matches but it happens, I even had the freaking ground targetting max distance off.

So yea.

All I am saying if we are talking about purely matchups with good players here, This puts me on a disadvantage right?

I am also playing a class that I am just decent at, not even my main. seriously I think its time for people to have a reality check

@StickerHappy
Read better next time. If youre a esl player or have high mmr you get automaticly put into the higher mmr team vs the lower. But i guess i have to be extra clear with you. You started in emerald this season? Well almost no high mmr players were in emerald at the start of this season. Everyone were in sapphire.

@sanctuary: To be honest, it feels like you are contradicting yourself. Just curious, would you place yourself as a good, average, or below average player? This season is mathematically geared for faster progression compared to season 1, with the exception for those that are stuck on losing streaks. Season 1 basically aimed for 50:50 matches and was actually the season that caused me to take a break from gw2 until now. I LIKED season 1’s matchmaking, but it was a huge grind, and the meta builds at the time were terribly unfun to play against (nearly endless resistance uptime condi revenants, bunker mesmers, and the occasional bunker aura-tempest).

Back to the math of it all though:
Season 1: Matches based on MMR, shuffled players between teams to give nearly equal win chance. So “50:50” chance of winning every match, unless your skill is higher than your current mmr/you are a skilled outlier. Bonus Pips gained if beating a team with a higher chance to win than yours, extra pips LOST if losing a team you should be able to beat. In such a system, your net gain should actually be near zero, except for when you are climbing out of your range, because your current mmr matchups are not caught up to your skill.

Season 2: Didn’t play, so I’m not qualified to comment.

Season 3: Teams formed by finding team members near your mmr/division, then it finds the next assembled team who’s mmr range is closest to yours. No shuffling occurs. Higher MMR team is LIKELY to win, further raising their mmr, lower teams mmr further goes down. Since players likely have the same mmr if they requeue, they will likely play with the same people, either getting more and more frustrated at their allies, or knowing how each other play and synergizing. Likely to snowball win streaks to progress divisions faster. These games in general are not balanced, but should allow for those that are “winners” to progress faster. As I said, I think this is fine at the START, to separate players into their appropriate divisions, but then it should begin forming matches with equal likely hood for both teams to win.

Have more wins than losses in every season, never been stuck. Have killed top 1000 in 1vs1. I guess im a pretty an ok player.

My issue is that i stopped playing ranked 1 year before unranked was introduced. Back then i played another class which i wasnt even remotely close at being more than “ok” at. From my matches back then i have a average mmr. So how am i supposed to raise my mmr in ranked in season 3 when my team always face higher mmr teams? If i had started in amber then sure, easy wins, but diamond +?

sanctuary.1068:

@StickerHappy
Read better next time. If youre a esl player or have high mmr you get automaticly put into the higher mmr team vs the lower. But i guess i have to be extra clear with you. You started in emerald this season? Well almost no high mmr players were in emerald at the start of this season. Everyone were in sapphire.

Watch the videos bro, You will see for yourself. If you are even aware of the proleague scene, every match there you will see familiar names.

WATCH THE VIDEOS

There are matches there that we utterly decimated Marvin and Wakkey’s team, multiple times.

Cmon. Prove me wrong.

Being an ESL player puts you on the winning team? LOL. Cmon man, I think this is a l2p issue here.

I can upload like 10 matches more to refute your utter claims.

@StickerHappy
Maybe you should tell me its a learn to play issue when im actually stuck. I have more wins than losses. Have i complained about being stuck? Go talk to Ithilwen instead.

Not gonna answer your posts anymore because you ignore the whole purpose of every post everytime and answer on something totally different and ignore the core issue.

sanctuary.1068:

@StickerHappy
Maybe you should tell me its a learn to play issue when im actually stuck. I have more wins than losses. Have i complained about being stuck? Go talk to Ithilwen instead.

Not gonna answer your posts anymore because you ignore the whole purpose of every post everytime and answer on something totally different and ignore the core issue.

Dude i just refuted your claim “If you are an ESL player, you are put on the higher MMR team, aka The winning team”

What are you saying that I am ignoring your claims? I just provided you with some evidence and then you act like that?

Tell me how is it different?

You claim “If you are an ESL player, you are put on the higher MMR team, aka The winning team” THEN I SHOWED you Videos Proving otherwise

So who is really out of topic here?

WOW. JUST WOW.

@StickerHappy

The point is that if you are a high MMR player, the matchmaker is likely to put you on the side it has chosen as the probable winner. Hence, you are likely to win and have winning streaks. This is known as “positive feedback.”

Conversely if you lose, or have a low mmr, the matchmaker will assign you to the team it expects to lose. Hence, you are likely to lose. This lead to being placed on more teams selected to lose. In other words, “negative feedback.” ( well, speaking literally, this is also positive feedback in a negative direction )

Because the system is set up in such a way as to reinforce streaks, (by assigning players to unbalanced teams ) it can be said to have “negative dynamic stability.” That is.. the further it gets away from the mid point the more it tends to move away from balance.

The system is expressly designed in a manner that resists balanced matches ( a 50/50 win ratio.) I can’t think of a situation in which negative dynamic stability is good. I think the results of this season and the posts in this forum bear me out.

Your anecdotal evidence doesn’t disprove this. I said “likely” and not every time.

Ithilwen.1529:

@StickerHappy

The point is that if you are a high MMR player, the matchmaker is likely to put you on the side it has chosen as the probable winner. Hence, you are likely to win and have winning streaks. This is known as “positive feedback.”

Conversely if you lose, or have a low mmr, the matchmaker will assign you to the team it expects to lose. Hence, you are likely to lose. This lead to being placed on more teams selected to lose. In other words, “negative feedback.”

Because the system is set up in such a way as to reinforce streaks, (by assigning players to unbalanced teams ) it can be said to have “negative dynamic stability.” That is.. the further it gets away from the mid point the more it tends to move away from balance.

The system is expressly designed in a manner that resists balanced matches ( a 50/50 win ratio.) I can’t think of a situation in which negative dynamic stability is good. I think the results of this season and the posts in this forum bear me out.

“Likely” is veeeerrrrryyyy different from 100% (sanctuary claimed a 100% win)

I had 50/50 win ratio this season as well while playing with or against top tier players.

We can never really fully define unbalanced until they us our MMR. The only unbalance definition i would understand right now is pug vs premade.

A lot of the time people have a false perception on how good they really are, some times a good player can have bad nights (which everyone would have once in a while) finally, The leagues are grindable (That’s why you get noobs in ruby or diamond or even legend)

If the team is average, 1 good player making the right choice at the right time could change everything. If your teammates are poor then your choices just won’t matter.

I watched the match where Zoose was playing and I believe he almost died and almost lost the cap but the person that came to help him made up for it.

Well if you have one of the 5 very lowest MMR in the game of people currently online, you will always be matched against better opponents

But if you are not in the bottom 5 of your pip range of eligible players, there is a 50% chance you will be the underdog only. Because its 50% odds that your matched against 5 folks just better in ranking then you and 50% against the 5 folks whom are just below you.

So Ithlwen do you believe your in the bottom 5 online ? that may be where your misperception of the odds comes from if you are. From that perspective you’d be correct that you’d always be the underdog. But for all but the bottom 5 eligible players in a pip range and the top 5, there is a 50 / 50 chance. So your observations would not be correct.

@Shion

My perception is based on direct observation over the course of nearly 500 games this season.

The match maker picks 10 people. Of those, it makes two teams of 5. One is deliberately made stronger than the other. So, your idea doesn’t wash.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Shion

My perception is based on direct observation over the course of nearly 500 games this season.

The match maker picks 10 people. Of those, it makes two teams of 5. One is deliberately made stronger than the other. So, your idea doesn’t wash.

My idea is that the game has a 50% chance of putting you in the better half, so long as theirs a pool of available players above and below you. How does that not wash?

Now if you are in the very bottom 5 of the available pool then yes you’ll be the underdog without a doubt.

I’m not sure how this could be argued.

it is also important to note that, of the available players, the teams made have consecutive MMRs. so its the 5 immediately above or below your 5 making for a better fight.

Which specific point do you disagree with.

I think you are confusing the micro effect of a specfic match, with the macro effect of applying this algorithm to many games in series.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Shion

My perception is based on direct observation over the course of nearly 500 games this season.

The match maker picks 10 people. Of those, it makes two teams of 5. One is deliberately made stronger than the other. So, your idea doesn’t wash.

This is just… Stronger is a very broad term.

What if your team is mechanically skilled by a long shot vs other team BUT you got out rotated?

So is that the matchamaker’s fault?

I do agree the Matchmaking needs some tweaks, but sometimes some games are winnable people just make poor decisions. It doesn’t necessarily always mean the odds are against your favor.

That’s faulty matchmaking if Zoose is being put into matches where he can win a pure 2v1 fight. I don’t count a fight where the second guy rolls in as the first guy is basically dead a real 2v1.

Not really what if he is 10 times better than the next available player. The match making can only make matches with those whom are available.

Drussthelegend.2630:

That’s faulty matchmaking if Zoose is being put into matches where he can win a pure 2v1 fight. I don’t count a fight where the second guy rolls in as the first guy is basically dead a real 2v1.

What??? Zoose does this all the time. What are you even talking bout? So are you saying noone should win a 2v1?

Supcutie on a 3v1.

Seriously the forums are terribad.

PS: This is also a tourney, so please do not refute it with “Maybe he is facing baddies”

GG.

He downed one person and then revenant came and knocked the two that were ressing and thats how they won. Thats not a 1vs3. He stayed alive vs 3 people for so long which is good itself but claiming he downed 3 people solo is just wrong facts. We all see the video. If the revenant hadnt come the other team probably would have gotten the res.

Stop with the nonsense already.

sanctuary.1068:

He downed one person and then revenant came and knocked the two that were ressing and thats how they won. Thats not a 1vs3. He stayed alive vs 3 people for so long which is good itself but claiming he downed 3 people solo is just wrong facts. We all see the video. If the revenant hadnt come the other team probably would have gotten the res.

Stop with the nonsense already.

What? Did you see how low the necro was before the revenant came in? He also had double Moa. and he was at 100% health? okay.

Thats not a 1vs3. He stayed alive vs 3 people for so long which is good itself but claiming he downed 3 people solo is just wrong facts. === So surviving against 3 people is not a 1v3? So what is?

And WHERE ON EARTH DID I CLAIM HE DOWNED 3 PEOPLE?

Hey sanctuary. Please refute my post first earlier, it seems like you have forgotten.

Honestly, if you think that the other teams gameplay was good vs that mesmer, i dont know what to think rly. No area control…no nothing. They just let the mesmer go full ham. Since mesmer was quite op back then i wouldnt even had gone for the res. Necro should have pressured more. There was no pressure whatssoever. The revenant in other team was the only one actually trying to follow and achieve something.

Looks like watching ambers vs a legendary. Im sorry but i cant take that clip seriously even if they have players that is supposed to be “good”. The gameplay was too bad from other team.

sanctuary.1068:

Honestly, if you think that the other teams gameplay was good vs that mesmer, i dont know what to think rly. No area control…no nothing. They just let the mesmer go full ham. Since mesmer was quite op back then i wouldnt even had gone for the res. Necro should have pressured more. There was no pressure whatssoever. The revenant in other team was the only one actually trying to follow and achieve something.

Looks like watching ambers vs a legendary. Im sorry but i cant take that clip seriously even if they have players that is supposed to be “good”. The gameplay was too bad from other team.

They had a necro, The rev missed its KB.. So what you are saying Team Never lucky is bad right?

Anyway, you are backpedalling again form the discussion. The discussion was about 2v1, and i proved it can happen even in a 3v1. It’s not about “ohh the other was bad, shouldve done this, and this. etc”

You are basically avoiding all of my arguments. Seriously I have been rekting all your posts mate save yourself from the shame.

@StickerHappy
What ive seen is someone who gets stuck on wording and tries to argue about something and being ignorant about what the topic is about. If i say teams gets matched high mmr vs low, thats exactly how it is in this season 3 mm. But what do you do? You get stuck on a word where i used “els player will win 100% in all diamond matches”. I was relating that to having high mmr and what i meant was that theyre most likely to win due to the season 3 mm.

Instead you become a little child, get stuck on wording instead of discussing the problem thats been brought up. Everything you even try to counter with has nothing to do about the issue and you only waste peoples time.

I agree with Drussthelegend. Its faulty mm if one person can kill 2 people. You do want a competitive gameplay right? Thats what many of us are trying to say with our “complaints”. If you are on a scale of 1 mmr out of 10, you should be paired vs other 1’s until you improve and can carry yourself higher into a higher mmr group. In that way they can enjoy pvp and feel every players contribution matters.

I mean, you seem to not grasp the content sometimes what people try to say. The person said the mm is faulty if 1 person can kill 2. Which is true. What do you do? You go and claim that person is saying that no one ever is allowed to kill two people and then you post a stupid video where someone kills 3 passive members that barely use a skill in the whole fight.

What youre doing is finding something in every post that you dont like and turn one word into something the person doesnt mean per se. Im not sure if it is that you dont understand the bigger picture in a text or not…But you do realise we all talk about the mm right, high mmr vs lower mmr? I mean im just making sure we all know what we’re talking about.

Competitive people want competitive matchups. Why do you think so many people moved to overwatch? Because the competitive matchups have been removed from ranked. I remember last year when i watched some streamers and they actually had competitive games. They lost some, won some, and thats how its supposed to be. I never saw anyone in those high level games kill 2 people on their own. Wanna know why? Because it was competitive and closer mmr groups fought vs eachother. We also had better balance.

Anyway you remind me of those people that always must have “right” however far from the topic they go. In the end, this thread is about mmr and if someone can kill 2 people on their own its faulty mm. End of story.

StickerHappy.8052:

Drussthelegend.2630:

That’s faulty matchmaking if Zoose is being put into matches where he can win a pure 2v1 fight. I don’t count a fight where the second guy rolls in as the first guy is basically dead a real 2v1.

What??? Zoose does this all the time. What are you even talking bout? So are you saying noone should win a 2v1?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHZinp7EET0

Supcutie on a 3v1.

Seriously the forums are terribad.

PS: This is also a tourney, so please do not refute it with “Maybe he is facing baddies”

GG.

To be fair, condi chrono during S2 was super easy mode (merc ammy was insane XD ).

Also that’s NOT how to fight a condi chrono.

So I wouldn’t call them baddies, but I could make legitimate use of the word “scrubs”.

sanctuary.1068:

@StickerHappy
What ive seen is someone who gets stuck on wording and tries to argue about something and being ignorant about what the topic is about. If i say teams gets matched high mmr vs low, thats exactly how it is in this season 3 mm. But what do you do? You get stuck on a word where i used “els player will win 100% in all diamond matches”. I was relating that to having high mmr and what i meant was that theyre most likely to win due to the season 3 mm.

Instead you become a little child, get stuck on wording instead of discussing the problem thats been brought up. Everything you even try to counter with has nothing to do about the issue and you only waste peoples time.

I agree with Drussthelegend. Its faulty mm if one person can kill 2 people. You do want a competitive gameplay right? Thats what many of us are trying to say with our “complaints”. If you are on a scale of 1 mmr out of 10, you should be paired vs other 1’s until you improve and can carry yourself higher into a higher mmr group. In that way they can enjoy pvp and feel every players contribution matters.

I mean, you seem to not grasp the content sometimes what people try to say. The person said the mm is faulty if 1 person can kill 2. Which is true. What do you do? You go and claim that person is saying that no one ever is allowed to kill two people and then you post a stupid video where someone kills 3 passive members that barely use a skill in the whole fight.

What youre doing is finding something in every post that you dont like and turn one word into something the person doesnt mean per se. Im not sure if it is that you dont understand the bigger picture in a text or not…But you do realise we all talk about the mm right, high mmr vs lower mmr? I mean im just making sure we all know what we’re talking about.

Competitive people want competitive matchups. Why do you think so many people moved to overwatch? Because the competitive matchups have been removed from ranked. I remember last year when i watched some streamers and they actually had competitive games. They lost some, won some, and thats how its supposed to be. I never saw anyone in those high level games kill 2 people on their own. Wanna know why? Because it was competitive and closer mmr groups fought vs eachother. We also had better balance.

Anyway you remind me of those people that always must have “right” however far from the topic they go. In the end, this thread is about mmr and if someone can kill 2 people on their own its faulty mm. End of story.

Still using silly arguments i see.

Why is 2v1 not legit? So a Scrapper who is built for sustain should not be able to 2v1? So 1 good player CANNOT defeat 2 lower skilled people on a scrapper?

Passive 3 members? Those are ESL level people, I just do not see why are you still acting blind about it?

You people always bring up MMR problems, which is only partly true. So what you are basically saying is.

A higher MMR team who is mechanically skilled will not be outplayed it a lower MMR team outrotated them?

I mentioned this on my other post. You know why the problem exists? Gw2 PvP population is a cess pool in the leagues, full of oblivious people in pvp, pve players, mixed with average ones where small percentile of the population is actually good.

Also The league system gives you losing streak bonuses too, so people like Itwhilhen are stuck in sapphire should be atleast getting to ruby (since you do not lose tiers) if they are GOOD ENOUGH.

PS: Wording is very important in stating an argument, this helps you differentiate hyperbole from actual facts.

I mean, you seem to not grasp the content sometimes what people try to say. The person said the mm is faulty if 1 person can kill 2. Which is true

^This statement right here is complete evidence of being a scrub. You blame the Matchmaking if someone is good enough to actually 2v1 you? Wow.

i might repeat myself, but the best pvpers i know were calm people who would never ever brag about their skills, contrary to those fake scriptkiddies who constantly bark and cry around.

this is like counter strike forum or st. capskiddies on the internet. and apparently some of them are esl heroes .. probably those who won by ddos.

^This statement right here is complete evidence of being a scrub. You blame the Matchmaking if someone is good enough to actually 2v1 you? Wow.

They did it on Mesmer, which can reset its shatters with a profession skill, another that can reset cooldowns, and the shatters can be traited for superspeed and upon shattering (AoE effect) give torment an confusion. Not only that but the shield skill can block twice (perhaps explaining why they didn’t use any skills, who wants to waste burst when the blocks are up?) so Mesmer winning 1v2 has to be the most common one. Also, would a DH shredding two thieves even count?

@StickerHappy
No player has killed me yet when outmanning in a 2vs1. I have killed 2 players at once and that was because i was in a wrong mmr group and this was years ago. In season 2 that also was very common to happen because we had to face all different kinds of mmr groups and i didnt get competitive games until diamond that season.

What im saying is, if you can do that its either bc:
- You need to get up in a higher mmr group to get competitive games
- The player you killed need to go down in mmr group to get competitive games
- Balance class issues (like chrono in season 2).

Well im gonna sleep, have fun arguing with yourself.

alemfi.5107:

And from the conclusions that you’ve laid out (accurately, from my own observations), the match making is doing its job: getting good players out of the beginning leagues faster…. for a time.

It’s doing good job only for them. At the cost of everyone else’s.

@sanctuary

I have no idea what logic you are using. Hardcounters in the game exist. Bunkers exist. 2v1 is a common sight.

1:30 mark 1v1 turned into a 4v2. Do not tell me about the MMR crap here, the opposing team had Radioactive Players and I had Chaith on mine

Agmemnon, I leave the explaining of stuff to you.

@All

Please feel free to address sanctuary, I am running out of approaches. #blametheMMmore

shion.2084:

Well if you have one of the 5 very lowest MMR in the game of people currently online, you will always be matched against better opponents

But if you are not in the bottom 5 of your pip range of eligible players, there is a 50% chance you will be the underdog only. Because its 50% odds that your matched against 5 folks just better in ranking then you and 50% against the 5 folks whom are just below you.

It’s 50% only if the number of people above and below you is equal. If there are 15 people in your pip range in queue, and you’re the 6th, then the chance of you getting put on a winning team is significantly bigger than 50%.

Also, it’s not the 5 lowest MMR players. It’s the 5 lowest MMR players, at your pip range, that are in queue at the moment. And that pool, looking at the queue times, and how often you’re going to see familiar faces when playing, is not that big at all.

numbers and mmr are irrelevant when the com sucks. with people who suck you get pvp that sucks, simple. this com is pretty silly.

StickerHappy.8052:

Drussthelegend.2630:

That’s faulty matchmaking if Zoose is being put into matches where he can win a pure 2v1 fight. I don’t count a fight where the second guy rolls in as the first guy is basically dead a real 2v1.

What??? Zoose does this all the time. What are you even talking bout? So are you saying noone should win a 2v1?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHZinp7EET0

Supcutie on a 3v1.

Seriously the forums are terribad.

PS: This is also a tourney, so please do not refute it with “Maybe he is facing baddies”

GG.

In a game where all gear/levels are equalized and you have to stomp to finish someone, winning a 3vs1 means either 1) there is a vast class imbalance, 2) the players on the losing three side suck balls, or 3) a combination of 1 and 2.

This is not WoW/ Rift/ ESO where a player can 1v3 or more due to gear. If you send 3 players to take a point and those three players lose that is an embarrassment. Saying they don’t suck because they are in a tourney or have some “name” is ludicrous.

Yasha.5963:

StickerHappy.8052:

Drussthelegend.2630:

That’s faulty matchmaking if Zoose is being put into matches where he can win a pure 2v1 fight. I don’t count a fight where the second guy rolls in as the first guy is basically dead a real 2v1.

What??? Zoose does this all the time. What are you even talking bout? So are you saying noone should win a 2v1?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHZinp7EET0

Supcutie on a 3v1.

Seriously the forums are terribad.

PS: This is also a tourney, so please do not refute it with “Maybe he is facing baddies”

GG.

In a game where all gear/levels are equalized and you have to stomp to finish someone, winning a 3vs1 means either 1) there is a vast class imbalance, 2) the players on the losing three side suck balls, or 3) a combination of 1 and 2.

This is not WoW/ Rift/ ESO where a player can 1v3 or more due to gear. If you send 3 players to take a point and those three players lose that is an embarrassment. Saying they don’t suck because they are in a tourney or have some “name” is ludicrous.

So saying they suck because they got outplayed is right? lol. This is only 1 play. Saying they suck just because of this 1 play is ludicrous as well.

I’ve lost so many games with Marvin on my team either because I sucked or somebody else sucked lol. Pro league don’t get free wins dude, I’ve beaten some PZ guys when they solo and hell they’re far better than me at PvP.

You know how people complain some games are literally unwinnable and teams are literally uncarryable? Well yeah guess what it happens even to pro league guys time to time.

Yasha.5963:

StickerHappy.8052:

Drussthelegend.2630:

That’s faulty matchmaking if Zoose is being put into matches where he can win a pure 2v1 fight. I don’t count a fight where the second guy rolls in as the first guy is basically dead a real 2v1.

What??? Zoose does this all the time. What are you even talking bout? So are you saying noone should win a 2v1?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHZinp7EET0

Supcutie on a 3v1.

Seriously the forums are terribad.

PS: This is also a tourney, so please do not refute it with “Maybe he is facing baddies”

GG.

In a game where all gear/levels are equalized and you have to stomp to finish someone, winning a 3vs1 means either 1) there is a vast class imbalance, 2) the players on the losing three side suck balls, or 3) a combination of 1 and 2.

This is not WoW/ Rift/ ESO where a player can 1v3 or more due to gear. If you send 3 players to take a point and those three players lose that is an embarrassment. Saying they don’t suck because they are in a tourney or have some “name” is ludicrous.

If you want to decide what “winning” a 1v2 or more is you need to define success. In conquest there are multiple definitions of varying importance.

Any player who can 1v2 on point and hold a cap = success
Any player who can 1v2 on point and hold it FROM capping = success
Any player who can 1v2 at a point, keeping the fight outnumbered elsewhere = success

These are all relevant definitions of “winning” a 1v2 – assuming you don’t go down and maintain some edge that benefits the overall match.

fishball.7204:

I’ve lost so many games with Marvin on my team either because I sucked or somebody else sucked lol. Pro league don’t get free wins dude, I’ve beaten some PZ guys when they solo and hell they’re far better than me at PvP.

You know how people complain some games are literally unwinnable and teams are literally uncarryable? Well yeah guess what it happens even to pro league guys time to time.

Thank you! See. someone like you understands. ESL players on either team do not guarantee wins. It is so stupid how people think this and say MM is rigged. CMON GW2 Forums!!!

@ Ross Biddle

Man, It’s useless explaining this to people. I had no idea that the forums are this “bad”