Guild Wars 2

At the moment in which team you play based on two factors: your position in the league and your MMR. But these two factors does not represent the experience a player has in PvP. A new player in PvP can have the same count in matches, the same position in the league and the same MMR like a pro player, who’s playing on an alt account. But they have completely different experience in playing PvP.

In a game mode 1v1 it will really fast sorted out. The more inexperienced players will fall behind the more experienced players.

But conquest is a team mode. It’s 5v5. It depends not on you alone. You need your team mates to win. You want to have team mates that have a similiar experience you have. And you want to play against a team with similiar experience. When that happens, you will have close fights and all players are happy. Even the players of the losing team.

But when you’re unlucky, you end up in a team with more inexperiences players then the opposite team. And you lost the match before it began.

Sadly the personal experience of a player can not be measured by technical numbers.

Uhm no. You are new to everything concerning matchmaking, right?

There are a lot of things wrong with the league system, but it has absolutely nothing to do with ‘experience’ of the players fighting each other.

Experience is only an indicator how good a player is, but it certain not a requirement for being good or the only criteria. A talented new player can easily beat 80%-95% of our the players who have played for over a year, since almost no one bothered to actually get better in this game.

MMR is THE unit of measurement for skill.

A new player in PvP can have the same count in matches, the same position in the league and the same MMR like a pro player, who’s playing on an alt account.

Well, the MMR system needs some time to measure your skill. If you are changing accounts, it takes some time to do so. But, the system is intelligent enough to measure how accurate it is at measuring your skill and therefore, it adjusts the impact every single game has on your MMR.

I agree OP. Especially this :

“ A new player in PvP can have the same count in matches, the same position in the league and the same MMR like a pro player, who’s playing on an alt account. But they have completely different experience in playing PvP.”

Funny thing is when you ask these people if a diamond player with a 500 MMR is as skilled as an amber player with same MMR. Noone answer; and yet they still claim that (the MMR is intelligent enough to measure a player skill) and to extent it’s true. What we needed this season was an MMR reset. I guess Anet thought otherwise.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Funny thing is when you ask these people if a diamond player with a 500 MMR is as skilled as an amber player with same MMR. Noone answer; and yet they still claim that (the MMR is intelligent enough to measure a player skill) and to extent it’s true. What we needed this season was an MMR reset. I guess Anet thought otherwise.

What? MMR is the ONLY indicator how good you are, regardless of division you end up in.
The problem is, we don’t have access to our MMR BUT,we know, that only the better players will end up in the higher division.

To your example:
If a 500 MMR player is able to end in diamond, every 500 MMR player will be able to do this. If player A with MMR of 500 is still in amber, than that’s only, because he hasn’t played ANY matches yet.

The diamond player got his 500 MMR last season, plz stay on track.

Teutos.8620:

Experience is only an indicator how good a player is, but it certain not a requirement for being good or the only criteria. A talented new player can easily beat 80%-95% of our the players who have played for over a year, since almost no one bothered to actually get better in this game.

MMR is THE unit of measurement for skill.

MMR ist the unit of measurement for skill. You’re probably right.

Skill for me is, how good you play your class. How good you know all classes to win against them.

But experience is more. Experience is how to play the map, how to read the map. To know, when to join a fight and when not. And when to leave a fight, because it’s useless to fight any longer.

A skilled player can probably win 80-95% of all fights against our player base. But he will lose every match, when he don’t know how to play the maps.

Teutos.8620:

MMR is the ONLY indicator how good you are, regardless of division you end up in.

No, it’s not. Because you play in a team. You win as a team, or you lose as a team. And that will higher or lower your personal MMR.

So your personal MMR only shows how good your teams were. Not how good you are.

Teutos.8620:

Uhm no. You are new to everything concerning matchmaking, right?

There are a lot of things wrong with the league system, but it has absolutely nothing to do with ‘experience’ of the players fighting each other.
and MMR does not reflect improvement in skill over time once you are in MMRHell

Experience is only an indicator how good a player is, but it certain not a requirement for being good or the only criteria. A talented new player can easily beat 80%-95% of our the players who have played for over a year, since almost no one bothered to actually get better in this game.

MMR is THE unit of measurement for skill.

A new player in PvP can have the same count in matches, the same position in the league and the same MMR like a pro player, who’s playing on an alt account.

Well, the MMR system needs some time to measure your skill. If you are changing accounts, it takes some time to do so. But, the system is intelligent enough to measure how accurate it is at measuring your skill and therefore, it adjusts the impact every single game has on your MMR.

the last I heard pvp is a TEAM game not played solo!!
I agree talented new pvp players can probably beat a lot of “experienced players” one on one as you suggest but that does not determine victory

The company just needs to delete SoloQ system and ensure that players can enter Ranked games only in full premade. This will sort most of the things out coz people will then try to match up and play closely with others players based on skill levels and experience.

Thus SoloQ should be for Unranked while for Ranked it has to be at least in full premade.

Eagelseye.6312:

The company just needs to delete SoloQ system and ensure that players can enter Ranked games only in full premade. This will sort most of the things out coz people will then try to match up and play closely with others players based on skill levels and experience.

Thus SoloQ should be for Unranked while for Ranked it has to be at least in full premade.

“How to kill gw2 pvp 101” your idea its terrible, the pvp population is very small and if you force ppl to go full premade the population will shrink even more

and getting smaller !!

evanlegion.7680:

Eagelseye.6312:

The company just needs to delete SoloQ system and ensure that players can enter Ranked games only in full premade. This will sort most of the things out coz people will then try to match up and play closely with others players based on skill levels and experience.

Thus SoloQ should be for Unranked while for Ranked it has to be at least in full premade.

“How to kill gw2 pvp 101” your idea its terrible, the pvp population is very small and if you force ppl to go full premade the population will shrink even more

Anet killed it already by not differentiating between Solo Q and Team.

You cannot have a league based system where results and progress is made in a team format, when you keep switching the players in the teams.

Can you imagine a Soccer world cup tournament where before every game, players are randomly assigned to a team from all of the available pool? It’s just utterly ridiculous.

Daroon.1736:

evanlegion.7680:

Eagelseye.6312:

The company just needs to delete SoloQ system and ensure that players can enter Ranked games only in full premade. This will sort most of the things out coz people will then try to match up and play closely with others players based on skill levels and experience.

Thus SoloQ should be for Unranked while for Ranked it has to be at least in full premade.

“How to kill gw2 pvp 101” your idea its terrible, the pvp population is very small and if you force ppl to go full premade the population will shrink even more

Anet killed it already by not differentiating between Solo Q and Team.

You cannot have a league based system where results and progress is made in a team format, when you keep switching the players in the teams.

Can you imagine a Soccer world cup tournament where before every game, players are randomly assigned to a team from all of the available pool? It’s just utterly ridiculous.

agree this +1

Aarna.5178:

But experience is more. Experience is how to play the map, how to read the map.

No, skill is, where it all comes together.
In other words: MMR measures how you perform in your matches. This includes every button press you do in the game.

No, it’s not. Because you play in a team. You win as a team, or you lose as a team. And that will higher or lower your personal MMR.

The result of a single game shows how your team played.
MMR measures your individual skill, which includes your capability inside the team.

You might not like that, but after several MMR resets in the past, it has already been proven, that it actually is working. Ofc it is not working as good as purely 1v1 based game like chess, but well, that still the best unit of measurement we have.

godsie.2864:

the last I heard pvp is a TEAM game not played solo!!
I agree talented new pvp players can probably beat a lot of “experienced players” one on one as you suggest but that does not determine victory

Not sure what you are meaning. Since you are not playing with the same team over and over again, MMR can actually measure your individual skill.

I am pretty sure you know what he meant, the facts are, and organized t3am has a 90% chance of winning against full pugs. And also, although individual performance does count; your team has more weight on the outcome of a game. So, you could be the best player ever however if your team keeps on messing up( not holding caps, list goes on) you d end up losing.

Fivedawgs.4267:

I am pretty sure you know what he meant, the facts are, and organized t3am has a 90% chance of winning against full pugs. And also, although individual performance does count; your team has more weight on the outcome of a game. So, you could be the best player ever however if your team keeps on messing up( not holding caps, list goes on) you d end up losing.

Again, you are throwing a lot of stuff together and not providing any sustainable information to discuss here anything in detail. I can just speculate which situation you mean.

An organized team has an advantage, yes, in the old system, the therefore got their MMR adjusted. In the old system I won against full premades (including CC) and lost against them.
In the new system, forming a premade can have advantages but also disadvantages. E.g. If you are a top player and invite other top players, at the start of the season, you will basically win every match, because most of the time, you are facing less skilled opponents, but then again, if you would not have had a premade, you would just have gotten at random other good players and still farmed less skilled players…

How big is the influence of a single player for this team? Without knowing how good his own teammates are, how big the skill difference is to the opponent team, we don’t know. You can’t “carry” every team. There are games, which are sooo close, that you could have won, if just a single mistake would not have been made (ofc the mistake is not the reason, it got so close, nor might this situation have been the only thing that went wrong).
BUT, you can say, that after a few dozen of games, if instead of you, another player would have participated, a lot of those game would have ended up differently.

Teutos.8620:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I am pretty sure you know what he meant, the facts are, and organized t3am has a 90% chance of winning against full pugs. And also, although individual performance does count; your team has more weight on the outcome of a game. So, you could be the best player ever however if your team keeps on messing up( not holding caps, list goes on) you d end up losing.

Again, you are throwing a lot of stuff together and not providing any sustainable information to discuss here anything in detail. I can just speculate which situation you mean.

An organized team has an advantage, yes, in the old system, the therefore got their MMR adjusted. In the old system I won against full premades (including CC) and lost against them.
In the new system, forming a premade can have advantages but also disadvantages. E.g. If you are a top player and invite other top players, at the start of the season, you will basically win every match, because most of the time, you are facing less skilled opponents, but then again, if you would not have had a premade, you would just have gotten at random other good players and still farmed less skilled players…

How big is the influence of a single player for this team? Without knowing how good his own teammates are, how big the skill difference is to the opponent team, we don’t know. You can’t “carry” every team. There are games, which are sooo close, that you could have won, if just a single mistake would not have been made (ofc the mistake is not the reason, it got so close, nor might this situation have been the only thing that went wrong).
BUT, you can say, that after a few dozen of games, if instead of you, another player would have participated, a lot of those game would have ended up differently.

I agree, hence why MMR measure your/team ability to win a game. In the current system, you can’t say that MMR is a good metric. I.e A diamond and an amber player who ended up with a 500 MMR last season, at the onset of S2 who do you think the system is going to match this diamond player with? The amber player right, now imagine this, 4 amber + 1 diamond from last season vs 5 diamond from last season; and because everyone start in amber, this player is pretty much garanteed to lose 80% of his games due to the S2 algorithm. Now tell me is how big is the influence of this diamond player in amber?

I agree with games being close now; However two weeks prior games were far from close… AND about your last paragraph, during the first week of the season, this diamond players could have lost all of his games. Now are you going to blame all.of those losses on the diamond players or an his teammates (4 ambers) or on the MM algorithm?

Eagelseye.6312:

Thus SoloQ should be for Unranked while for Ranked it has to be at least in full premade.

Any recommendation what to do while waiting 1h+ in the que?

Fivedawgs.4267:

the facts are, and organized t3am has a 90% chance of winning against full pugs.

90% ah OK. I’m sure you have some proof for this because according to anet the win rate of five solo players is above 50% against five-person premades.

Only 1% of all Ranked matches played in season one were a full five-person premade group vs. a group of five solo players, and even then, the win rate for those five solo player teams in those cases was consistently at or above 50% throughout the entire season.

Source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes

Shylock.4653:

Fivedawgs.4267:

the facts are, and organized t3am has a 90% chance of winning against full pugs.

90% ah OK. I’m sure you have some proof for this because according to anet the win rate of five solo players is above 50% against five-person premades.

Only 1% of all Ranked matches played in season one were a full five-person premade group vs. a group of five solo players, and even then, the win rate for those five solo player teams in those cases was consistently at or above 50% throughout the entire season.

Source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes

But why are u using S1 data?? I was talking about this one.

Teutos.8620:

Aarna.5178:

But experience is more. Experience is how to play the map, how to read the map.

No, skill is, where it all comes together.
In other words: MMR measures how you perform in your matches. This includes every button press you do in the game.

No, it’s not. Because you play in a team. You win as a team, or you lose as a team. And that will higher or lower your personal MMR.

The result of a single game shows how your team played.
MMR measures your individual skill, which includes your capability inside the team.

You might not like that, but after several MMR resets in the past, it has already been proven, that it actually is working. Ofc it is not working as good as purely 1v1 based game like chess, but well, that still the best unit of measurement we have.

godsie.2864:

the last I heard pvp is a TEAM game not played solo!!
I agree talented new pvp players can probably beat a lot of “experienced players” one on one as you suggest but that does not determine victory

Not sure what you are meaning. Since you are not playing with the same team over and over again, MMR can actually measure your individual skill.

absolute nonsense! not when you are stuck in MMRHell with awful teams time after time after time no its NOT an accurate indicator of MY individual skill that’s the whole point!

I am totally upset about matchmaking. I play casual and i found always better groups than mine so i lost matches 500 vs 100 or around for 10 times and more.I dont know how anet made a so epic fail after the good season before. They needed only to make the same thing that worked well. Now win a game is kinda impossible also at Emerald. It is a good way to lose clients so gg Anet !

godsie.2864:

absolute nonsense! not when you are stuck in MMRHell with awful teams time after time after time no its NOT an accurate indicator of MY individual skill that’s the whole point!

Nice troll attempt.

For everyone else following this posts: There is no MMR Hell. There have already been enough proofs. People have shared their ‘hell’-account with better players, who then ended up with a huge win streak. There have been players who videotaped their gameplay and then, with some feedback and training, managed to improve their league position.

Just get better, than you will be able to improve you division position!

If you are on EU and need some help improving your gameplay, feel free to contact me ingame.

I have improved but still cant carry teams and am stuck in MMRHell and it does exist believe me! there is nothing you can do if your team is nowhere near the level of your opponents
I am not trolling and find that offensive just saying how I am feeling for mistakes I made earlier in the season I have no escape – just saying get better is not very constructive as I have done just that

It is a TEAM game

If there isnt a mmr hell why in the previous season i reached easy and fast Ruby and now in season 2 i found hell from Amber and i am not able to overcome Emerald? I play in the same way but other players are Always better…not only better then me but better of the most part of my Group. Many players say the same thing…it couldnt be casual so imho anet made a fail somewhere in matchmaking. Moreover if i lose tons of matches why i dont go down and fight with easier groups?

absolutely same with me made ruby before and I feel I am a better player now than I was then from me practising in unranked! – and on the end now of endless losing streaks

Teutos.8620:

What? MMR is the ONLY indicator how good you are, regardless of division you end up in.

Hence why opponents should be based on mmr hence why there are so many lopsided uncompetitive matches right up to diamond.

morrolan.9608:

Teutos.8620:

What? MMR is the ONLY indicator how good you are, regardless of division you end up in.

Hence why opponents should be based on mmr hence why there are so many lopsided uncompetitive matches right up to diamond.

Division and matches should both be based on MMR. The system itself is just uncompetitive when you can be beating over low MMR players to climb/streak to higher divisions.

When you have stuff like ‘good diamond players’ and ‘bad diamond players’, it totally devalues the system and ruins any ‘prestige’ anyway.

Teutos.8620:

MMR is THE unit of measurement for skill.

It was in season 1 and when they used it in unranked. In season 2, it no longer matches you against players of similar skill. Because of this, it’s no longer a measurement of skill. It’s just a measurement of how well you kicked off- which even that can be biased with bad luck.

Chill, it’s neither…….MMR isn’t accurate outside of the average tier as it’s being skewed to the extremes. But if you like the results of one simulation, you just have to play quite a few games til it corrects itself. If you go with the other results you have to play more than quite a few games, but either way improving your skill will take you out of it, it’ll just be a slow process.

MMR is the problem as the MM is picking who wins by having team unbalanced so it have boosting lot of bad players to top rank based on false there MMR.

Fivedawgs.4267:

But why are u using S1 data?? I was talking about this one.

This season a full team don’t get matched against full pugs.

Source:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes

It seems that being a team has big disadvantages, because this thing is hidden at the start at the game ? Also the invite to party – thingy that used to give some hints about premade i dont see it anymore.

matthor.6178:

If there isnt a mmr hell why in the previous season i reached easy and fast Ruby and now in season 2 i found hell from Amber and i am not able to overcome Emerald?

I sure, you will not like my answer: because you are not a good player.

In season 1 you fought opponents who had about your MMR. That means, you would only have faced bad players on your way up to legendary.
With the new system, bad players have a harder time to progress but don’t worry, even if you don’t improve, the more days go by, the easier it will be for you to progress anyway, because the slightly better players progress faster and therefore you will only play against even worse players (if there are any).

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Teutos.8620:

MMR is THE unit of measurement for skill.

It was in season 1 and when they used it in unranked. In season 2, it no longer matches you against players of similar skill. Because of this, it’s no longer a measurement of skill. It’s just a measurement of how well you kicked off- which even that can be biased with bad luck.

MMR is still the unit to measure your own skill. It is just not the only variable used in the whole match making process.
There was no ‘luck’ at the start, again, there have been multiple proofs already, that you are the deciding factor if you progress or not.
In the lower divisions are (almost) only bad players left. Therefore, if you are good, you will fight with and against bad players but since you are good, you are the deciding factor to win the game.