Guild Wars 2

In this condi meta where we have necros and engis galore, you guys know how conditions can really be a game breaker for thief if you dont remove them fast enough. This has caused us to go into the SA tree in order to get the condition removal trait.

With the nerf to infiltrators and the agility signet as well as shadow step being on a long cd (way to slow to reliably remove condis)

EVERY thief build will have to have 10 in SA for the condi removal and possibly a set of lyssa runes to help with this.

10 trait points wasted because arena net has nerfed us and not given us an alternative way to do this.

Unless I am missing something here, I see this as a huge problem for all thief builds as these trait points could be better spent in other trait lines with the upcoming changes however will be necessary due to the current meta.

Actually both competitive thief builds, 10/30/0/30/0 S/D and 10/30/0/0/30 D/P only had two small sources of condi removal to begin with. Don’t forget that we have one of the best heals in the game which removes burn, bleed, and poison.

The 33% boost to initiative regen will really help all thief specs.

In addition to that, we are seeing big nerfs to the main condition spammers of the meta, like spirit ranger burning proc being nerfed by 33%, necros having some bleeds shaved, and engineers losing perma vigor.

Thieves will never be able to wade through condi spam like warriors or transfer it instantly like necros…but they can avoid a lot of it by shadowstepping and stealthing frequently.

Peow peow.2189:

In this condi meta where we have necros and engis galore, you guys know how conditions can really be a game breaker for thief if you dont remove them fast enough. This has caused us to go into the SA tree in order to get the condition removal trait.

With the nerf to infiltrators and the agility signet as well as shadow step being on a long cd (way to slow to reliably remove condis)

EVERY thief build will have to have 10 in SA for the condi removal and possibly a set of lyssa runes to help with this.

10 trait points wasted because arena net has nerfed us and not given us an alternative way to do this.

Unless I am missing something here, I see this as a huge problem for all thief builds as these trait points could be better spent in other trait lines with the upcoming changes however will be necessary due to the current meta.

you’re absolutely wrong.

No thief in this meta will ever go into SA; Pain response in acrobatic, Shadow return from In strike and lyssa runes are everythign a thief needs in order to face engies and necros ( infact the match up against those 2 classes has always been a 50-50% IN ACRO S/D THIEF CURRENT ITERATION).

With Shadow return nerfed, any S/D thief ( or S/P) will be dead meat to any half decent engi-necro ( Warriors as well) with all other thief options absolutely not optimal in the current meta.

The thief is doomed, but not for the reason you listed .

Mrbig.8019:

Peow peow.2189:

In this condi meta where we have necros and engis galore, you guys know how conditions can really be a game breaker for thief if you dont remove them fast enough. This has caused us to go into the SA tree in order to get the condition removal trait.

With the nerf to infiltrators and the agility signet as well as shadow step being on a long cd (way to slow to reliably remove condis)

EVERY thief build will have to have 10 in SA for the condi removal and possibly a set of lyssa runes to help with this.

10 trait points wasted because arena net has nerfed us and not given us an alternative way to do this.

Unless I am missing something here, I see this as a huge problem for all thief builds as these trait points could be better spent in other trait lines with the upcoming changes however will be necessary due to the current meta.

you’re absolutely wrong.

No thief in this meta will ever go into SA; Pain response in acrobatic, Shadow return from In strike and lyssa runes are everythign a thief needs in order to face engies and necros ( infact the match up against those 2 classes has always been a 50-50% IN ACRO S/D THIEF CURRENT ITERATION).

With Shadow return nerfed, any S/D thief ( or S/P) will be dead meat to any half decent engi-necro ( Warriors as well) with all other thief options absolutely not optimal in the current meta.

The thief is doomed, but not for the reason you listed .

thanks for the good response man.

I see what you are saying here, and as you stated any s/d or s/p thief will be dead with the nerf to infi strike coming. I hope they think this through a bit more because i really dont wana have to re roll . . .

Welcome to Ranger, where 30 in widerness has been mandatory for forever to be viable.

Ryan.9387:

Welcome to Ranger, where 30 in widerness has been mandatory for forever to be viable.

Ironically, a-net claimed their purpose with the Ranger changes in the patch preview was to open up build variety, but they didn’t change the only thing restricting build variety in the first place.

Anet seems to start with an idea, “people don’t like playing against thieves that can continually port away only to come back a second later”. Then, they figure out a way to fix it – add a cast time on sword return. Finally, they wipe their hands off and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Nowhere in there is any thought to viability before and after the change. S/D and S/P thieves aren’t even chosen for teams anymore it seems like (I know the last car crash video I saw blu cast had the thief dropped for an extra warrior). They need buffs but they keep getting dropped to lower and lower tiers. Where’s the compensation for the cast time? Does the sword AA chain do 30% more damage now? I bet they really think making hard to catch more available fixes it.

Hype.8032:

Anet seems to start with an idea, “people don’t like playing against thieves that can continually port away only to come back a second later”. Then, they figure out a way to fix it – add a cast time on sword return. Finally, they wipe their hands off and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Real. They don’t get that we don’t that to troll or something, it’s the only thing we CAN do. Most don’t even want too because it’s so cheesy…it’s just your only choice.

The change in vigor is the right step in toning down the s/d evade build. However, adding a delay time to shadow return on sword #2 is so silly. It destroys the smooth moves of a good s/x thief who have a good timing (which does requires skill). If the main reason of adding a cast time is to punish the bad thief who can just port out while being stunned, why don’t just disable the skill during that time? This would maintain the effectiveness of the sword main hand and still punish the bad. We should also keep in mind that no one has ever complained about Infiltrator’s Strike prior to the evade-spamming-build patch. Toning down vigor would hurt this build enough. Infiltrator’s upcoming nerf should be considered carefully since it hurts the good more than the bad.