Guild Wars 2

Hey all,

So I’ve been playing since beta off and on and feel I have a decent understanding of the game and the meta’s in the past and current (although the new one’’s still in flux). I played on a relatively decent top team during the first two months and while I don’t have time for one at the moment, I’ve been dueling when I can.

I’ve become pretty decent with a sword/shield (and going to try new sword off hand) and LB condi build. I’ve beaten everyone who goes to the duel server over the last month (and had my share of losses and learning curve). To me the build seem’s able to handle itself and offers even more in a team environment with its large fire field and blast finisher as well as multiple 3.5-5 sec immobilizes. This has lead me to believe the build would work in a legit 5v5 team.

Is it because the OP necro just offers more? (however I found necro the easiest to beat if they were not a MM necro with condi removal traited with minions).

Id really like to see someone represent condi warrior in a top team since I’m 100% certain it can offer a lot. Until Defektive showed what a CC warrior could do, no one though warrior offered anything, I think the same is true for condi warriors.

Edit:

This is the build I’m referring to

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFwo;1RK-Q0f4cL-60;9;44JT-E;128-08A;12;0ao03;2isXAiJG41Zz

You stack bleeds slower than most passive condi clear can remove it and don’t have condition applications in other places to cover those bleeds so they don’t get removed.

Eurantien.4632:

You stack bleeds slower than most passive condi clear can remove it and don’t have condition applications in other places to cover those bleeds so they don’t get removed.

Hey man,

I’ve watched you guys and like what I’ve seen in your team.

This is a common response that I’ve seen from everyone, however this has not been my experience. If it were I would of lost a lot more duels since D/D ele’s and Guardians and Rangers would of just cleaned everything I had to throw at them, but this was not the case, plus I was dueling on a non-point, which makes it easier for them since they can move out of the fire field easily and not suffer losing a point in tpvp.

Also if what you say were true, then this problem would be eliminated even more with your teammate giving cover with their conditions as well.

Zenyoga.6910:

This is a common response that I’ve seen from everyone, however this has not been my experience. If it were I would of lost a lot more duels since D/D ele’s and Guardians and Rangers would of just cleaned everything I had to throw at them, but this was not the case, plus I was dueling on a non-point, which makes it easier for them since they can move out of the fire field easily and not suffer losing a point in tpvp.

Also if what you say were true, then this problem would be eliminated even more with your teammate giving cover with their conditions as well.

Quite honestly, if you won duels vs d/d eles and guardians, then you were fighting very bad players.

The only really stackable condition you have is bleeding, and you really sorta have to be in melee range to do that effectively. You can do burning from your longbow burst, but you can just move out of that, and it’s not high potency anyway.

When you only reliably apply 1 condition and unreliably apply a second, you have no chance of succeeding against anyone with even mediocre condition removal. Let’s compare it to some other condition classes.

Necro: Bleeding, burning, poison, weakness, vulnerability, blind, cripple, chill, fear, torment

Engineer: Bleeding, burning, poison, vulnerability, blind, cripple, immobilize, confusion, chill

Mesmer: Bleeding, burning, vulnerability, cripple, weakness, torment, confusion, blind

All of these other classes can apply massive numbers of conditions in high quantities. You have bleeding, a bit of burning, an immobilize now and then. That’s about it.

I have not played it enough to give any more input. Surely, one could build a team around it. However, why do that when you can just meta? …. I miss the old days.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Zenyoga.6910:

This is a common response that I’ve seen from everyone, however this has not been my experience. If it were I would of lost a lot more duels since D/D ele’s and Guardians and Rangers would of just cleaned everything I had to throw at them, but this was not the case, plus I was dueling on a non-point, which makes it easier for them since they can move out of the fire field easily and not suffer losing a point in tpvp.

Also if what you say were true, then this problem would be eliminated even more with your teammate giving cover with their conditions as well.

Quite honestly, if you won duels vs d/d eles and guardians, then you were fighting very bad players.

The only really stackable condition you have is bleeding, and you really sorta have to be in melee range to do that effectively. You can do burning from your longbow burst, but you can just move out of that, and it’s not high potency anyway.

When you only reliably apply 1 condition and unreliably apply a second, you have no chance of succeeding against anyone with even mediocre condition removal. Let’s compare it to some other condition classes.

Necro: Bleeding, burning, poison, weakness, vulnerability, blind, cripple, chill, fear, torment

Engineer: Bleeding, burning, poison, vulnerability, blind, cripple, immobilize, confusion, chill

Mesmer: Bleeding, burning, vulnerability, cripple, weakness, torment, confusion, blind

All of these other classes can apply massive numbers of conditions in high quantities. You have bleeding, a bit of burning, an immobilize now and then. That’s about it.

Well I think I’m a decent judge of player capacity. They were a lot better than spvp players and random tpvp players, but I wouldn’t say top tier players either, although neither am I and I know someone could play this spec much better than I, so I’m extrapolating from that. The spec has no problems winning a duel vrs classes you mentioned, even ranger (and I think this spec is a wonderfull spirit ranger counter with its aoe capacity, tankiness).

I’m willing to face players you think are capable of showing what a good d/d and guardian or ranger are, although I may not be at that level yet to compete since I dont dedicate the time, I do feel though that the spec is legitimate enough in the right hands. Still I would give it a shot and learn something or perhaps prove myself better than I thought.

Also the build has a 80% poison up time.

Friend me if you like, and when I’m back from vacation in a few weeks and get off the ring rust, I’ll try and showcase the build. I’ll also make some streams and duel so people can see it in a action.

Because they need to remove A LOT of the games condition removal from PvP. Build diversity is never going to happen when certain strategies have no commonly available hard counters and others have hard counters on nearly any combination of skills.

I’m a big fan of LB condi warriors. Their condition application is limited in comparison to say necro/engi however their general damage output is far greater through regular attacks so they make up the damage offset that way (that’s with carrion). My LB warrior is something similar trait allocation wise (though different trait selection/weapons/utilities).

I’m quite sure I’m one of the very few people who think that warriors are no longer a rubbish class anymore and can hold their ground very well (mainly because 90% of the pvp forum are warriors advocating for buffs, so god help them they wouldn’t admit it). I even came up against a bunker warrior the other day in soloq, held back 3 players on point single handed for around 30sec’s which is a decent effort. So thankfully there are a few people out there who don’t bother with all the qq and get straight to the innovation stage.

S/S and Longbow is very effective now for condition builds. Run Sigil of Doom and you’ve got all your control conditions + Burning, Bleeding, Torment, and Poison.

However, the reason Warriors aren’t running condi in tPVP is likely because Necro does it better and as a Warrior in tPVP your best bet atm is a build that destroys Necros.

Velron.3729:

S/S and Longbow is very effective now for condition builds. Run Sigil of Doom and you’ve got all your control conditions + Burning, Bleeding, Torment, and Poison.

However, the reason Warriors aren’t running condi in tPVP is likely because Necro does it better and as a Warrior in tPVP your best bet atm is a build that destroys Necros.

I agree, and have paid attention to Defektives/team use of the cc warrior. Also with my experience vrs a necro I can say that this build/condi warriors can CC a necro through immobilize long enough (and at range which the stun warrior can’t) for your team to focus him down (and while your doing this and the other team is around you trying to help their necro/rezzing they are taking 1k dps a second from your fire field alone, add in a combustive shot and its 3-4k, and all the added might and fields your giving).

Zenyoga.6910:

Velron.3729:

S/S and Longbow is very effective now for condition builds. Run Sigil of Doom and you’ve got all your control conditions + Burning, Bleeding, Torment, and Poison.

However, the reason Warriors aren’t running condi in tPVP is likely because Necro does it better and as a Warrior in tPVP your best bet atm is a build that destroys Necros.

I agree, and have paid attention to Defektives/team use of the cc warrior. Also with my experience vrs a necro I can say that this build/condi warriors can CC a necro through immobilize long enough (and at range which the stun warrior can’t) for your team to focus him down (and while your doing this and the other team is around you trying to help their necro/rezzing they are taking 1k dps a second from your fire field alone, add in a combustive shot and its 3-4k, and all the added might and fields your giving).

Yes, LB condi war and zerker ranger actually have a very strong damage spike from a range. I would live to try coordinating it sometime.

Eurantien.4632:

Zenyoga.6910:

Velron.3729:

S/S and Longbow is very effective now for condition builds. Run Sigil of Doom and you’ve got all your control conditions + Burning, Bleeding, Torment, and Poison.

However, the reason Warriors aren’t running condi in tPVP is likely because Necro does it better and as a Warrior in tPVP your best bet atm is a build that destroys Necros.

I agree, and have paid attention to Defektives/team use of the cc warrior. Also with my experience vrs a necro I can say that this build/condi warriors can CC a necro through immobilize long enough (and at range which the stun warrior can’t) for your team to focus him down (and while your doing this and the other team is around you trying to help their necro/rezzing they are taking 1k dps a second from your fire field alone, add in a combustive shot and its 3-4k, and all the added might and fields your giving).

Yes, LB condi war and zerker ranger actually have a very strong damage spike from a range. I would live to try coordinating it sometime.

Ya they do. Also another thing that people are overlooking, how hard it is to focus fire this build as well and while it can still put out a lot of hurt.

This is a strong build, especially 1v1. I think it’s tournament viable, but the big thing you’re missing compared to engi and necro is the range and aoe on your condi. Yes, you have fire field, but that’s only the half of it. I think it’s going to be a little bit weak in team fights (especially when there’s aoe condi removal flying).

I would guess that the big problem why there aren’t many condi specced classes, such as warrior, is because there aren’t many classes that can layer all too many conditions like a Necromancer. Actually I can’t say that’s really the only problem …

What I believe the problem also lies behind are classes that can literally laugh off conditions as if they were a silly joke in order to combat the massive amounts of conditions that fly around. I’d say Elementalist and Guardian have the easiest time, then there’s Ranger, and last but not least, Engineer.

To me this makes it to where any other class that doesn’t have an overwhelming number of conditions, let alone the ability to frequently and easily reapply them, are sub-par in face of anything with built-in abilities to deal with conditions. Simply put, you can’t work it as a condi class if you lack not only a multitude of layers, but the ability to consistently reapply them just as quickly as they’re removed, or somewhere around that so you can actually deal damage / enough damage with them.

Otherwise you’re just gimping your class and team. Perhaps conditions should really be more limited in terms of what classes have what. Not some classes having next to nothing, while others have almost enough, and then a select one maybe two have what feels like too many conditions.

I feel like the current balance of conditions from some classes forces a design in which you need such a strong level of condition removal that it effectively nullifies any class that doesn’t have the requirements needed to be an effective condition class, which I’ve already listed the gyst of.

There’s really a lot that could be toned down in this game. Like raw damage, condition applications, boons between the classes, tankiness / sustain and what have you. Damage quite honestly in a multitude of classes seems over the top levels of high and Arenanet bringing necro up to that level if not beyond really baffles me.

Brigg.6189:

This is a strong build, especially 1v1. I think it’s tournament viable, but the big thing you’re missing compared to engi and necro is the range and aoe on your condi. Yes, you have fire field, but that’s only the half of it. I think it’s going to be a little bit weak in team fights (especially when there’s aoe condi removal flying).

Ya good point about the engi and necro, although you do have combustive shot for good aoe burst, and this build can 1v1 those builds. I think this build shines most in a 2v2 and maybe 3v3 on a point. You pretty much have firefield up 100% of the time and any enemy bunker that wants to stay on that point is going to be taking 7-9k every 10 seconds just from the field alone, plus it helps as a auto-condi remover.

I think its a valid alternative or addition to those classes as well, some thought would have to go into the team comp.

I wonder why you take the damage on dodge roll over vigor on stances. With the blind buff it isnt as good anymore and the vigor gives you a good bit of survivability.

It is a decent 1v1 build, I have played a condition build extensively enough to know that it does have its weaknesses.

Although you can achieve 100% uptime on poison, OK burn application and torment, bleeds are still rather easily cleansed and this type of build isn’t as potent as lets say a Necro and an Engi build whom inflict more conditions and it is more AoE. This is in terms of tPvP play.

This type of build can beat Guardians and D/D eles, if you play it correctly your bleeds can outpace their condition removal in a 1v1 scenario. Some Ele and Guardian builds might give you more trouble than others but it is still very possible.

However I found this build really bad against a Ranger with Sw + X/Shortbow, because their health bar doesn’t tend to move even if you stack 10+ bleeds on them. And let’s be honest Rangers can remove them pretty good too, if you manage to even stack 10 because of all their sword evades. Spirit Rangers it is especially bad because they can just heal and remove conditions like no tommorrow. I am not convinced at all that it can beat a good ranger with a good build.

Mesmers with at least 2 sources of condition removal can be a pain in the butt, Engis because they can spec for lots of healing and condition removal. Certainly isn’t impossible, but it is harder. MM Necros are hard to beat no matter what warrior build you are. Condition Necros are definitely beatable.

While the Pindown and Fire Field is nice, simply, an Engi and or a Necro can offer much more to a PvP team than a Condi-based warrior. If people don’t stand on the Fire Field all it really becomes good for is Might Stacking because the pulsing is so slow.

Condition warrior works but it’s extremely difficult. Conditions from warriors are easily countered, and there is no “burst” condition potential like how Necros and Engineers can strangely pull off. Conditions on warriors is what you’d think conditions would be: damage slowly over time.

Much much simpler to just play a CC heavy warrior. Point and click to stun targets all day while your team does all of the damage.

I lol’d @ point and click. Def how melee works.

Coincidentally, that’s exactly how the Longbow works.

Zenyoga.6910:

Hey all,

So I’ve been playing since beta off and on and feel I have a decent understanding of the game and the meta’s in the past and current (although the new one’’s still in flux). I played on a relatively decent top team during the first two months and while I don’t have time for one at the moment, I’ve been dueling when I can.

I’ve become pretty decent with a sword/shield (and going to try new sword off hand) and LB condi build. I’ve beaten everyone who goes to the duel server over the last month (and had my share of losses and learning curve). To me the build seem’s able to handle itself and offers even more in a team environment with its large fire field and blast finisher as well as multiple 3.5-5 sec immobilizes. This has lead me to believe the build would work in a legit 5v5 team.

Is it because the OP necro just offers more? (however I found necro the easiest to beat if they were not a MM necro with condi removal traited with minions).

Id really like to see someone represent condi warrior in a top team since I’m 100% certain it can offer a lot. Until Defektive showed what a CC warrior could do, no one though warrior offered anything, I think the same is true for condi warriors.

Edit:

This is the build I’m referring to

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFwo;1RK-Q0f4cL-60;9;44JT-E;128-08A;12;0ao03;2isXAiJG41Zz

Condition warrior could be good if necros epi what you put on but the thing is you do not apply it fast enough for it to be useful because even if a necro can apply those bleeds so much faster and can aoe a point way better then bleed warrior. And btw cc warrior was just introduced by defective since he posted a variation of the build and plays on team. Pre-patch even months before, it was played by a few of warriors along with myself. It is really effective now in teams because skull crack is now 3 second stun rather than 2 secs with full bar of adrenaline. On a side note if the condi aoe meta is toned down a bit through necro and spirit ranger changes I think warriors will finally have there place in a team.

zone.1073:

Condition warrior works but it’s extremely difficult. Conditions from warriors are easily countered, and there is no “burst” condition potential like how Necros and Engineers can strangely pull off. Conditions on warriors is what you’d think conditions would be: damage slowly over time.

Much much simpler to just play a CC heavy warrior. Point and click to stun targets all day while your team does all of the damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQh0p4GyNp8

Somewhat agree with this. You can get a decent bleed burst by going pin down → sword flurry.

And with CC warrior that’s kind of the trick. It’s strong 1v1 against some classes, but where it shines is with good teamwork. It’s not a great solo queue or inexperienced team spec imo. I kinda like it like that though.

Hi =)

What do you think about this build?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sF-p;1RKVN0d4gL-60;9;59TEE;12;01783;05;0aoG4;2isXAiJG42VF

It’s focused on tpvp.

->With the warhorn, the signet of stamina, the berserker stance and the dogged march trait in defense line you will have a great resistance against condis. You can replace the dogged march trait by sure-footed or shield master if you prefer using a shield. You can also use only lissa runes to have another full condi cleanse on your 48sec cd elite.

->I think warhorn #5 can be pretty cool in a teamfight: it’s a blast finisher, it gives vigor to allies which is cool, and weakness to all enemies, knowing that in it’s current state weakness completely breaks the critical hits damage.

->With 15 points in tactics, which means +10% rezz speed and +400 toughness while rezzing, +berzerker stance (instacast so you can use it while rezzing), +last stand trait in defense line (automatic stability if somebody tries to cc you), +fear me (instacast), you can become an extremely good rezzer, at least if you are not focused by the whole enemy team. For instance, if you go to a node when an ally calls for help, and you arrive at the moment when he is downed, you can fear even the stealthed enemies that tries to get the stomp, and you are almost sure that you will be able to rezz him, even if you are focused by an enemy, maybe even two. Your rez will be faster than a stomp.

->But the main difference/force of this build is the Stronger Bowstrings trait in tactics line, as it does much more than it says:
1)LB range increased to 1200. This is in fact not so good because with the low arrow speed you will miss a lot of hits at a 900+ range if your foe is in motion.
2)According to the tooltip, the direct damage of some of the LB skills changes. I don’t know if this is true.
3)According to the tooltip, the duration of the burning applied by the #2 LB skill becomes 2 secs instead of 1 sec, which is false.
4)Here is the main thing: according to the tooltip, the #2 skill becomes a physical projectile combo finisher, and the auto attack becomes a 100% combo finisher instead of 20%. AND THIS IS TRUE!!! Each one of the three arrows thrown by #2 skill, and each one of the 2 arrows thrown by the auto attack will be a physical projectile finisher.

What does this mean? this means that almost everytime you will auto attack, you will put 2 stacks of bleeding that will do 1,128 damage over 7 sec (with your critical hits), and if you are firing through your AoE fire combo field, you will put your enemy on fire, doing 1,168 damage over 2 sec. So each one of your auto attacks will do 2,296 damage plus the direct damage. So even if your enemy don’t stand in the AoE, you will reliably put burning on him. And you will also be able to take benefit from your teammates combo fields, puting poison, confusion or chill on an enemy, or blinding him constantly.

Your burnings are strong because they only last for short times, but you can put them on your enemies everytime. Wars AoE don’t puts one long burning on foes, it puts a 1 sec burning on them each sec, and your arrows also put short time burnings on your foes. So if your enemy uses a condi cleanse, it will be useless against your burnings because you will apply them again at the next second. Your burnings will do high damage while being in some way “uncleanable”.

The numbers in the build calculator are wrong, so you may know that:

With full adrenaline, the combustive shot lasts for 8 sec. If an enemy stays in it for it’s whole duration, he will take 6,424 damage from burning over 11 sec (each burning lasts a litle bit more than 1 sec). Don’t forget that at each tick the AoE will also do direct damage to enemies, and if it’s a critical hit, it will probably also put bleeding on them.

The #5 skill does 10,677 bleeding damage over 19 sec. This arrow crosses enemies, so it will put immobilize and bleeding to any enemy between you and the designated foe, and to some enemies behind your foe.

So what do you think about all this?

Sorry for my bad english =)

@killahmayne.9518 and zone,

Thanks for the responses and I agree with some aspects of what you guys have added to the discussion, necro and engi can add more condi’s quicker at range and aoe. I’ll have to mull over that. I think the reason the build can beat these classes 1v1 is beserker stance and the ability to cleanse conditions easily, but this doesn’t mean its better in a team environement, although being able to have these abilities means you can be less of a target for your team and play pretty aggressively and cc and damage for your team.

One thing that I do think is being overlooked is the fact of how big the firefield is (a bunker or anyone wanting to keep a point is going to be hurting), its up 100% and it can be triggered by your team offering a good amount of burning on the other team+buffs for yours via blasts. Also like I said you can play super aggressive with this build and not fear much punishment allowing to face tank some damage for your team by being straight up in a guy or two’s face and cc’s. Also this build can do a lot of damage real quick which is being overlooked as well.