Guild Wars 2

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

You don’t have to rely on cannon to win. honestly. it can only focus 1 point and 75% of the time it is focusing B.

I like your thinking.

‘Just let them have mid guys, take far. Rambostyle!’

Oh, except that 75% of the time it is focusing where you’re pressuring if you’re not vsing semiconscious droolers, and it takes 22 seconds to run to far from your spawn with swiftness, and 6 from theirs. I guess cannon is pretty bad if you’re a semiconscious drooler though.

‘Wait, it turns?!?’

You have a team of 5 for a reason.

Heizero.9183:

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

You don’t have to rely on cannon to win. honestly. it can only focus 1 point and 75% of the time it is focusing B.

I like your thinking.

‘Just let them have mid guys, take far. Rambostyle!’

Oh, except that 75% of the time it is focusing where you’re pressuring if you’re not vsing semiconscious droolers, and it takes 22 seconds to run to far from your spawn with swiftness, and 6 from theirs. I guess cannon is pretty bad if you’re a semiconscious drooler though.

‘Wait, it turns?!?’

You have a team of 5 for a reason.

Good thing they don’t. Wait, what?

Well i guess we just to wait for top teams to decide if it s good.
ô team paradigm winners of all late tournaments pls tell us what to think

And we can only notice that the one defending this map usually says it s good cause bad position means instakill, that you have to build for it (build wars) and that if you don’t do it it s because your a newb which can t adapt.
Personnaly i also played cheesy terrormancer with max fear duration, little ds cds and corrupt boons, i could perma fear anyone into the void every 20 sec regardless of stability. I had no dmg and i was super squishy but hey, i can build right and smash my keyboard for those fears so i am skilled
So yeah it’s fun, yeah it can be refreshing and all but in no way can this map be in tournaments or any competitive environment, this is for hot joins and personal arena

Lol so much hostility…. i don’t know what to tell you. i do consistently well on this map. At max I fall to my death once or twice a round. usually i don’t at all, even as a thief with zero access to stability. Sorry if you had a bad time but from my experience this map plays really well. the ONLY exception being the cannon. it could definitely be toned down a bit.

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

Most bunkers should already be running CC. and bunkers have alot of access to stability and stun breaks. Not only that, but why is being built to kill players considered skilled? the point of the competitive play is to win. This map is all about positioning. If you are positioning well you will come out on top no matter what, it all comes down to not being familiar with the map yet.

Because knockback + fear are incredibly spammable and it doesn’t take a lot of skill to use them. Killing a talented player or bunkering a point against a good player is pretty kitten hard. Using a knockback/fear rotation rotation until someone reaches a ledge or immobilizing them on a glass platform is pretty easy, especially when you consider the ration of CC to stunbreak/condition removal.

Positioning isn’t “Hard” on this map either: You’re forced to either stand next to a wall and eat damage on tiny, cramped points until you blow up, or get CC’d off edges. That doesn’t take a lot of skill, to make that decision. It’s not fun, and it’s not competitive. Players asked for big, open cap points like Foefire so that team fights and skilled team-oriented play could develeop. Instead we got Cheese Wars where the team with the most knockbacks wins.

Give me an example of any class (Besides mace/shield warrior) that has reliable “spammable” CC rotations please. Most are knockdowns or stuns which will never throw you off an edge. Access to actual launches and RELIABLE fears is pretty limited and on long CD.

To elaborate: If you cannot watch for the super telegraphed animations of launches, you deserve to go over the ledge. Banish is easily avoidable, Necro marks can be evaded, and their wall is kindergarten levels of easy to avoid. Plus the one magic boon called stability that denies it all even if you were clumsy enough to get caught in it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Skyhammer-How-to-Hammer-Room-with-Warrior-CC
^ Cheese warrior with 5 knockbacks (elite skill KB has a 6s recharge), and 4 immobilize

Guardian hammer bunker + shield
Fear-lock necro spec (6.5s of chain fear)
Bomb + toolkit spec engi (potential knockback rotation of one every 4s)

Seems you’re completely out of touch with current CC capabilities

I mean, I don’t think many people are doubting how well others are doing on the map. But it’s heavily favored on certain classes, just like spirit watch or capricorn. I mean, what’s the point of competitive play if you have to adjust your build + comp for certain maps. This shouldn’t be an RTS but more of an action game where it comes down to actual fight to the death skill not gimmicky 1-hit ko mechanics or having to rely on secondary objectives to win. You don’t even need to fight, you just need to be sneaky enough to land a cc.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I mean, I don’t think many people are doubting how well others are doing on the map. But it’s heavily favored on certain classes, just like spirit watch or capricorn. I mean, what’s the point of competitive play if you have to adjust your build + comp for certain maps. This shouldn’t be an RTS but more of an action game where it comes down to actual fight to the death skill not gimmicky 1-hit ko mechanics or having to rely on secondary objectives to win. You don’t even need to fight, you just need to be sneaky enough to land a cc.

O please, I didn’t have to adjust my build at all for this map. I’ve been using the same build I’ve been using for the other tournament maps and it works great.

That being said, if your build doesn’t work for this map then it probably wasn’t that great of a build to begin with or it wasn’t flexible enough for various PVP scenarios. Sounds like a lot of stubborn players that are were too comfortable with their old builds and don’t want to change it up to in order to win on this map.

You bring different skills for different situations. My build was already CC-heavy so it works fairly well on Skyhammer. For the WvW Jumping puzzle, you’d adjust your skills there as well and you don’t bring the same skills you would for open field combat. The amount of whine in this forum recently is so similar to all those complaints about players getting killed in the jumping puzzle.

You got knocked off a cliff? Well, guess what, you’re in a PVP zone. Learn to deal with it.

Isaac.6041:

You got knocked off a cliff? Well, guess what, you’re in a PVP zone. Learn to deal with it.

If fear was a one-shot kill on Khylo or Foefire would you call it a L2P issue or a balance issue?

That’s the problem here…positioning or not you SHOULDN’T be able to one-shot someone with a CC skill when the counters for CC are DRAMATICALLY less available than the CC skills. It’s MUCH harder to avoid being CC-killed than it is to spec for CCs and spam them as fast as possible.

Game should be about player skill, not Build Wars.

This brings build diversity. Nobody could make all the skills useful for all the situations. Would people use mesmer port and bunkers for deathmatch?

This makes some unused skills useful. And that’s great.

Isaac.6041:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I mean, I don’t think many people are doubting how well others are doing on the map. But it’s heavily favored on certain classes, just like spirit watch or capricorn. I mean, what’s the point of competitive play if you have to adjust your build + comp for certain maps. This shouldn’t be an RTS but more of an action game where it comes down to actual fight to the death skill not gimmicky 1-hit ko mechanics or having to rely on secondary objectives to win. You don’t even need to fight, you just need to be sneaky enough to land a cc.

O please, I didn’t have to adjust my build at all for this map. I’ve been using the same build I’ve been using for the other tournament maps and it works great.

That being said, if your build doesn’t work for this map then it probably wasn’t that great of a build to begin with or it wasn’t flexible enough for various PVP scenarios. Sounds like a lot of stubborn players that are were too comfortable with their old builds and don’t want to change it up to in order to win on this map.

You bring different skills for different situations. My build was already CC-heavy so it works fairly well on Skyhammer. For the WvW Jumping puzzle, you’d adjust your skills there as well and you don’t bring the same skills you would for open field combat. The amount of whine in this forum recently is so similar to all those complaints about players getting killed in the jumping puzzle.

You got knocked off a cliff? Well, guess what, you’re in a PVP zone. Learn to deal with it.

Open world combat has no relevance to tpvp because you HAVE to cap points. So you have to be in certain places. Strangely enough, those places have many spots that are edges or holes of which you can be cc’d into. By all means, I can adjust my build for ‘combat’ but adjusting for maps isn’t right. This is PvP not PvE. And yes, some of my builds actually are good or have done well, it’s just other maps don’t have holes you can be pushed into for a free win even if you are about to down them all they need is one good positioning and cc. I’m glad this map fits your playstyle, but not all players have a cc-heavy build. I guess I could stun break out of banish—-oh wait.

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

Most bunkers should already be running CC. and bunkers have alot of access to stability and stun breaks. Not only that, but why is being built to kill players considered skilled? the point of the competitive play is to win. This map is all about positioning. If you are positioning well you will come out on top no matter what, it all comes down to not being familiar with the map yet.

Because knockback + fear are incredibly spammable and it doesn’t take a lot of skill to use them. Killing a talented player or bunkering a point against a good player is pretty kitten hard. Using a knockback/fear rotation rotation until someone reaches a ledge or immobilizing them on a glass platform is pretty easy, especially when you consider the ration of CC to stunbreak/condition removal.

Positioning isn’t “Hard” on this map either: You’re forced to either stand next to a wall and eat damage on tiny, cramped points until you blow up, or get CC’d off edges. That doesn’t take a lot of skill, to make that decision. It’s not fun, and it’s not competitive. Players asked for big, open cap points like Foefire so that team fights and skilled team-oriented play could develeop. Instead we got Cheese Wars where the team with the most knockbacks wins.

Give me an example of any class (Besides mace/shield warrior) that has reliable “spammable” CC rotations please. Most are knockdowns or stuns which will never throw you off an edge. Access to actual launches and RELIABLE fears is pretty limited and on long CD.

To elaborate: If you cannot watch for the super telegraphed animations of launches, you deserve to go over the ledge. Banish is easily avoidable, Necro marks can be evaded, and their wall is kindergarten levels of easy to avoid. Plus the one magic boon called stability that denies it all even if you were clumsy enough to get caught in it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Skyhammer-How-to-Hammer-Room-with-Warrior-CC
^ Cheese warrior with 5 knockbacks (elite skill KB has a 6s recharge), and 4 immobilize

Guardian hammer bunker + shield
Fear-lock necro spec (6.5s of chain fear)
Bomb + toolkit spec engi (potential knockback rotation of one every 4s)

Seems you’re completely out of touch with current CC capabilities

Guardian only has 1 reliable launch capable of throwing you off the edge imo. and it is easy to avoid. the shield of absorbtion is too short range. as for necro, you can avoid alot of their fears, which i ALREADY said. if you take the full necro fear duration you might want to take a look at your own gameplay. I agree, Warriors are strong here. and for an engi to KB you off the edge you would have to be playing pretty kitten close to it.

Gandarel.5091:

This bring build diversity. Nobody could make all the skills useful for all the situations. Would people use mesmer port and bunkers for deathmatch?

This makes some unused skills useful. And that’s great.

…
It decreases build diversity. Every class is pigeon-holed into the single spec that is most effective at spamming pulls/CC/knockbacks to get cheese one-shot kills. That’s not build diversity.

You people act like you are fighting on a tightrope. There is plenty of room for maneuverability.

Heizero.9183:

You people act like you are fighting on a tightrope. There is plenty of room for maneuverability.

I saw a mesmer fall off while trying to attack me on cannon. That wasn’t fun. By my point of view. Maybe I knocked him down by accident. I wanted an honorable fight (the place was already narrow enough to have it).

Heizero.9183:

You people act like you are fighting on a tightrope. There is plenty of room for maneuverability.

I think most of the important fights happen on the canon. Which is pretty tight. Other places can be bunkered pretty easily with canon support. Or just have someone back cap while you kill everyone coming to the canon area.

Heizero.9183:

You people act like you are fighting on a tightrope. There is plenty of room for maneuverability.

Not with combination AoE spam (engi, staff necro, guardian), cannon fire, floor panels, buggy jump nodes, and ledges.

You have to choose between stick to a wall and eating damage, or risking eating a CC (so many of which are being brought now that they’re unavoidable) and getting tossed over the ledge or stuck over a panel. There’s very little space to maneuver on side points and cannon.

Julius.1094:

somsom.5201:

@ OP: because it’s filled with cheese. The cannon is OP, and with a partly intelligent cheese build you can lock it down easily. The points are VERY easy for specific cheese builds to hold…solo. On top of that, you’ve got all the cheese blue glass spots that just further increase the cheese. Oh and the cannon AOE radius is HUGE…plus the time between shots is WAY WAY WAY too short.

tl;dr: Chuck E Cheese

Is there anything about spvp that isn’t cheese to you? lolz

?

We are discussing a map that largely rewards cheese. Going against those builds on any other map is no issue, but when you’ve got a cannon with huge aoe, holes to fall through right next to a point, and plenty of other ways to get knocked off the map…tell me how it isn’t exactly a cheese map? Can you do it without cheese? Sure, but it takes zero effort to run a warrior, guardian, ranger or necro on it with a simple cheese setup, so why do anything else?

Heizero.9183:

You people act like you are fighting on a tightrope. There is plenty of room for maneuverability.

Because you pretty much are.

Take the cannon point: the sides are obviously a knockoff dream, the glass itself is an issue, and the “platform” part is incredibly narrow that a few necro marks can completely lock it down.

Take point B: the cannon AOE covers the ENTIRE point except for a small single character amount on the very corners(next to the jump pads on the lower level). That means if the enemy has the cannon they can lockdown mid, as you either eat the dmg(lol no) or you have to fight in that small corner which means you don’t re-cap it(or you get knocked off the map/locked down in that small corner).

Take the other two points A/C: both of these have glass surrounding them AND the cannon AOE covers MORE than the point(it actually goes up the walls and touches the top ledges), meaning there is ZERO safe spot within the point itself(not even like with point B ).

The only places where you WON’T fall to your death are spawns.

Case in point: we 3v5’d with a necro holding cannon and the other 2 rotating points together against some 50s who called us out for cheeseing. It’s an INCREDIBLY easy map to lock down if you hold the cannon. It only illustrates how well your cheese builds work.

Ok, you might say the fact the map isn’t forgiving is a good thing.

But what if the map results SO unforgiving that every little imperfection in the gameplay leads to death?

If that happens, you will mostly see no difference between good and bad players.

I don’t know whether Skyhammer is good or bad. I just played it two times in hotjoin and have been a bit confused the first. Just saying unforgiving mechanics aren’t always a good thing.

bhagwad.4281:

Heizero.9183:

All talent is not measured in 1v1 prowess.

It’s the only measure of talent. In all other fights you’re hiding behind your teammates who make up for your weaknesses and you for theirs. In a very real way, nothing matters other than 1v1s.

Dont play TEAM games much do you?

TEAM games.

TEAM.

Getting it yet?

I love this map, reminds me of the old FPS games. I don’t have to change my build at all unless I’m planning on holding control of the cannon, in which case Fear builds with stability on DS activation come in handy, but not as much as some of the other class’s options. The cannon isn’t a big deal, just run off the point and run back. Haven’t had any trouble with it. I like the dynamic they added with the launch pads, probably based on the positive feedback from the Dragon Ball mini-game.

Also the cannon to me seems like a novelty at this point because everyone wants to play with it so you can 3 cap extremely easily because most players are hanging around the cannon room. I feel like mesmers and guardians are going to be the strongest defenders.

somsom.5201:

Julius.1094:

somsom.5201:

@ OP: because it’s filled with cheese. The cannon is OP, and with a partly intelligent cheese build you can lock it down easily. The points are VERY easy for specific cheese builds to hold…solo. On top of that, you’ve got all the cheese blue glass spots that just further increase the cheese. Oh and the cannon AOE radius is HUGE…plus the time between shots is WAY WAY WAY too short.

tl;dr: Chuck E Cheese

Is there anything about spvp that isn’t cheese to you? lolz

?

We are discussing a map that largely rewards cheese. Going against those builds on any other map is no issue, but when you’ve got a cannon with huge aoe, holes to fall through right next to a point, and plenty of other ways to get knocked off the map…tell me how it isn’t exactly a cheese map? Can you do it without cheese? Sure, but it takes zero effort to run a warrior, guardian, ranger or necro on it with a simple cheese setup, so why do anything else?

Heizero.9183:

You people act like you are fighting on a tightrope. There is plenty of room for maneuverability.

Because you pretty much are.

Take the cannon point: the sides are obviously a knockoff dream, the glass itself is an issue, and the “platform” part is incredibly narrow that a few necro marks can completely lock it down.

Take point B: the cannon AOE covers the ENTIRE point except for a small single character amount on the very corners(next to the jump pads on the lower level). That means if the enemy has the cannon they can lockdown mid, as you either eat the dmg(lol no) or you have to fight in that small corner which means you don’t re-cap it(or you get knocked off the map/locked down in that small corner).

Take the other two points A/C: both of these have glass surrounding them AND the cannon AOE covers MORE than the point(it actually goes up the walls and touches the top ledges), meaning there is ZERO safe spot within the point itself(not even like with point B ).

The only places where you WON’T fall to your death are spawns.

Exactly, is there any other place in game where screwing up once and getting hit by a single CC will result in death? If a necro screws up and doesn’t manage to dodge my firegrabv is that an INSTANT KILL? No? So why does he have access to spammable fear, any one of which is an instant kill? The map discourages build diversity and forces us into using CC skills that are one shot kills.

Heizero.9183:

P.S. I think if anything, they should patch the skyhammer cannon so that it can be evaded. would relieve a ton of griefing.

I’m glad it cannot be evaded, because it makes it so much more valuable to the gameplay, where if you have 2 guys on the map and 3 guys in cannon room you could win because of the amount of damage it does and easily aimed it is. If anything this map promotes king of the hill style gameplay in the cannon room.

As far as evade goes, you can dodge a treb hurling rocks at you, but a nuclear missile impact, that’s something that you cant just roll away from and say “I dodge rolled that”, you got to get the kitten out of the area when somebody is nuking you that’s how you evade it. And when somebody dazes you and stuns you while your in it, that’s called skills because they using it to there advantage your dead and they’re still standing. Called teamplay when somebody nukes you and somebody else immobilizes you so you get hit.

You should know this game and its mechanics stuff like lasers goes through people stuff like physical projectiles can be interfered and what not.

If you stun me I fear you for 4s. If you break it, I fear you for 2s. If you break it, I fear you for 3s. If you bring 3 stunbreaks, you’re going to be kitten ed when you find out you don’t have time to use the third before you’re falling.

That’s before we talk about spectral wall locking you into a tiny corner so you can’t even dodge. Or flesh golem charge as soon as you enter the cannon room bouncing cannon users right out to the very end of the platform, perfectly lined up for an instant doom. At least I have to press 3 keys for that, unlike the zero button multigib I mentioned before.

How good is your positioning against the thief who shadow refuges behind the wall then enters cannon and scorpion wires you onto the glass? Skill play right there, a hard fought contest but the better man won. It’s really hard, but there’s a little trick you can do to win fights instantly when people are burning through stunbreaks every five seconds. It only works on this map. I call it ‘proccing your nightmare rune’. Do not attempt if you are not pro.

It’s not a skill map, it’s a cheese map. It’s good for laughs, casual fun, that’s all.

Hanzo.9624:

I love this map, reminds me of the old FPS games. I don’t have to change my build at all unless I’m planning on holding control of the cannon, in which case Fear builds with stability on DS activation come in handy, but not as much as some of the other class’s options. The cannon isn’t a big deal, just run off the point and run back. Haven’t had any trouble with it. I like the dynamic they added with the launch pads, probably based on the positive feedback from the Dragon Ball mini-game.

Also the cannon to me seems like a novelty at this point because everyone wants to play with it so you can 3 cap extremely easily because most players are hanging around the cannon room. I feel like mesmers and guardians are going to be the strongest defenders.

Yeah exactly, the cannon is pretty powerful and it gives the teams holding it a pretty good advantage. But players with high mobility builds can neutralize that advantage.

Finally a map those engis and warriors can shine on, they still won’t stand a chance on other maps but by golly they will dominate this one! I say bring on the 4 engi/1warrior teams!

Lue.6538:

Finally a map those engis and warriors can shine on, they still won’t stand a chance on other maps but by golly they will dominate this one! I say bring on the 4 engi/1warrior teams!

People are way ahead of you with the full necro + engi teams

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

Wouldn’t using a PvE environment to your advantage to avoid death be considered exploiting? Like the arch door in the canon room, iderno. You can’t really be ‘in’ position either with a pull gank.

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

You don’t need to be run off the edge, just onto the glass while feared. And once again, I can fear you off the edge with a single fear from literally anywhere in that room unless I simply cannot move behind you (hello doorhugging). 4 seconds gives you plenty of time to run over the edge.

I don’t hate skyhammer, i love this map very much!!!
But i love it in browser not in a tournament! I hope they will remove this map from tournaments or put and equal rotation between all the maps.

Danilod

Because it’s a terrible map. Either you play one of the good classes for it, or you contribute absolutely nothing. It’s quite possibly the least build diverse map in the game.

I really just don’t get it. This map obviously has zero competitive potential and is just ‘for fun’. So if anet is going to make for fun maps, why can’t they just stop being kitten suckers and give us a nice wide open deathmatch map and keep it out of the tournament rotation.

uberkingkong.8041:

Heizero.9183:

P.S. I think if anything, they should patch the skyhammer cannon so that it can be evaded. would relieve a ton of griefing.

I’m glad it cannot be evaded, because it makes it so much more valuable to the gameplay, where if you have 2 guys on the map and 3 guys in cannon room you could win because of the amount of damage it does and easily aimed it is. If anything this map promotes king of the hill style gameplay in the cannon room.

As far as evade goes, you can dodge a treb hurling rocks at you, but a nuclear missile impact, that’s something that you cant just roll away from and say “I dodge rolled that”, you got to get the kitten out of the area when somebody is nuking you that’s how you evade it. And when somebody dazes you and stuns you while your in it, that’s called skills because they using it to there advantage your dead and they’re still standing. Called teamplay when somebody nukes you and somebody else immobilizes you so you get hit.

You should know this game and its mechanics stuff like lasers goes through people stuff like physical projectiles can be interfered and what not.

We wanna talk about realism? Why when I whirlwind through a light armor enemy he/she doesn’t fall on the ground crying like a gutted swine looking at what remains of his/her legs?

Why blinding an engineer makes the bomb he dropped miss?

Why an Earthshaker doesn’t affect people, even if they dodged by rolling on the ground?

Why I hit people with a flamethrower and I don’t melt instantly screaming in agony?

Why I can just stick my axe with all my weight into somebody’s head, and all he gets is not being able to stand for a bit (downed)?

And no, stunning someone into an AoE is not skills. If it was, I would be considered a pro gamer. I’m not, because stun is a part of my build’s mechanic. Is not always avoidable.

Errant Venture.9371:

It’s a cheese map, Build Wars trumps Guild Wars. I.e. if you spec for kittentons of CC + fear you will do better than someone who is more talented and runs a build where the goal is to actuall kill another player or bunker the point.

It’s fine for hotjoin/having fun trolling people, but it’s an awful competitive map

so spamming aoe condis on point in all the other maps and having to spec for condi cleanse takes “skill” but speccing for cc ,stab, and dodging obvious knockbacks/positioning so you cant get knocked of platforms doesn’t take “skill” lol ok

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

I am a far node roamer thief. of course i play far nodes. that is ALL i play. i know exactly how they set up and i can say i have zero issues fighting on them.

Bogy.2953:

Errant Venture.9371:

It’s a cheese map, Build Wars trumps Guild Wars. I.e. if you spec for kittentons of CC + fear you will do better than someone who is more talented and runs a build where the goal is to actuall kill another player or bunker the point.

It’s fine for hotjoin/having fun trolling people, but it’s an awful competitive map

so spamming aoe condis on point in all the other maps and having to spec for condi cleanse takes “skill” but speccing for cc ,stab, and dodging obvious knockbacks/positioning so you cant get knocked of platforms doesn’t take “skill” lol ok

Forget about balance, let’s just ask for a map that 1-hit kos everyone!

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

I am a far node roamer thief. of course i play far nodes. that is ALL i play. i know exactly how they set up and i can say i have zero issues fighting on them.

Meh. I think thieves are really cheap on this map being able to backcap and/or gank even more easily. You can shadowstep outside of most kb range too.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

I am a far node roamer thief. of course i play far nodes. that is ALL i play. i know exactly how they set up and i can say i have zero issues fighting on them.

Meh. I think thieves are really cheap on this map being able to backcap and/or gank even more easily. You can shadowstep outside of most kb range too.

“Oh you DO know how to play outside points and avoid unnecessary fights, to instead back-cap points for the sake of a team victory? Meh doesn’t matter thieves are cheap.” <—- that is kind of a kittenty way to leave things, mate.

Classes must be balanced in a “normal” environment.
If CC suddenly insta-gibs you then that changes the whole balance compared to fights on an even terrain.
CC is already strong enough – does it really needs the chance of an insta-gib?

Heizero.9183:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

I am a far node roamer thief. of course i play far nodes. that is ALL i play. i know exactly how they set up and i can say i have zero issues fighting on them.

Meh. I think thieves are really cheap on this map being able to backcap and/or gank even more easily. You can shadowstep outside of most kb range too.

“Oh you DO know how to play outside points and avoid unnecessary fights, to instead back-cap points for the sake of a team victory? Meh doesn’t matter thieves are cheap.” <—- that is kind of a kittenty way to leave things, mate.

I know that type of playstyle but I guess the lack of having someone in my group able to play like that specifically is making me think to myself “Why do I have to design a particular way to play to win at all?” Before, even with some slight non-standard team comps and builds, my group could stand a chance. Nowadays though, it’s like I have to conform to the cc meta (which I can definitely play) or go home. And I’m not a fan of forcing my team to play styles they don’t like. As a casual tpvper, it’s pretty annoying to have to do something in order to beat teams that wouldn’t stand a chance without the holes/edges. I don’t mind fighting thieves or getting bursted by one. But really not a fan of getting for surely 1-hit ko by one if my guard is down. Thieves can even backcap with people who lack cc if they can pull of the cheesy scorpion wire gank. They aren’t OP but they surely have an advantage on this map on par with cc heavy classes.

edit: Sure I’d like to be able to backcap if a team backcaps me, but why can’t I just have someone have a decent fighting chance against a mobile character who can make his presence unknown and have access to 1-ko floor panels. It’s not the fact that the thief can burst well, it’s the fact that they have absolute access to the insta death gank methodology on far points and can choose to do so whenever in stealth in addition to possibly burst a person down.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I love this map. It has officially replaced Temple of the Silent Storm as my favorite map. This map accomplishes something that so many of the other maps failed at: it is fun in a tactical and chaotic way.

So far, I’ve only played on it with a conditionmancer, and I loved it. My fears now have the potential to one-hit kill people, and also the counter-control can easily save me from one of devastating environmental effects.

Gee … I wonder why you love this map where as others hate it. You ONLY play one of THE MOST imbalanced classes in game currently AND on top of that you can fear-spam and “one hit kill” people! Not hard to put two and two together.

Because pressing one button and landing a kill equates to pure raw skill, obviously! So naturally you’re going to support and defend this easy victory mode for yourself without testing it on other classes that don’t have such an easy time “one hit killing” players and then go on to say this map is amazing. Brilliant.

And if you ask me … any kind of one hit kill mechanic in a game like this where the emphasis is on skill and “outplaying” your opponent, just doesn’t belong. This does not support that in the slightest, it just supports making the cheesiest and most gimmicky ‘one-hit-kill’ builds you can come up with and does not really give much room, if any at all, for counter play, which is a MUST have for any game to be competitive.

This map is just trolly gimmicky garbage that doesn’t belong in competitive PvP.

Jesiah.2457:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I love this map. It has officially replaced Temple of the Silent Storm as my favorite map. This map accomplishes something that so many of the other maps failed at: it is fun in a tactical and chaotic way.

So far, I’ve only played on it with a conditionmancer, and I loved it. My fears now have the potential to one-hit kill people, and also the counter-control can easily save me from one of devastating environmental effects.

Gee … I wonder why you love this map where as others hate it. You ONLY play one of THE MOST imbalanced classes in game currently AND on top of that you can fear-spam and “one hit kill” people! Not hard to put two and two together.

Because pressing one button and landing a kill equates to pure raw skill, obviously! So naturally you’re going to support and defend this easy victory mode for yourself without testing it on other classes that don’t have such an easy time “one hit killing” players and then go on to say this makitten omehow amazing. Brilliant.

And if you ask me … any kind of one hit kill mechanic in a game like this where the emphasis is on skill and “outplaying” your opponent. This does not support that in the slightest, it just supports making the cheesiest and most gimmicky ‘one-hit-kill’ builds you can come up with and does not really give much room, if any at all, for counter play, which is a MUST have for any game to be competitive.

This map is just trolly gimmicky garbage that doesn’t belong in competitive PvP.

I agree

My favourite map so far, instatripple killing people is so much fun. It’s totaly viable for competitive Tpvp. Yeah, I’m a necro, U MAD? ;p

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

This. /15chars

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

yup. pretty much

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

I like theorycrafting to fight for all ocassions. I don’t like having to complete drop any non-cc builds for a map that occurs once every 4 rotations. I can adapt, sure, but forcing everyone to pick up styles that others prefer isn’t the best way to go. Same copy&paste method because there are only a certain amount of ccs you can bring (thieves scorpion wire, necro spectral wall or any fear really, guard hammer&shield&spiritweapon, engi big ole bomb, rifle, battering ram, mine, etc). It’s not that hard to figure out. It’s just a matter of landing it. It doesn’t promote any sort of personal style just an ‘elitist cc’ build and possibly a paranoid positioning behavior. I am not saying this map is bad for general pvp, but it shouldn’t be considered competitive in my opinion.

edit: I usually don’t complain too much about the metas, but this if the first time where I can’t think of a better way to play this map other than cc. A specific type of build shouldn’t be given that big of an advantage.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

I like theorycrafting to fight for all ocassions. I don’t like having to complete drop any non-cc builds for a map that occurs once every 4 rotations. I can adapt, sure, but forcing everyone to pick up styles that others prefer isn’t the best way to go. Same copy&paste method because there are only a certain amount of ccs you can bring (thieves scorpion wire, necro spectral wall or any fear really, guard hammer&shield&spiritweapon, engi big ole bomb, rifle, battering ram, mine, etc). It’s not that hard to figure out. It’s just a matter of landing it. It doesn’t promote any sort of personal style just an ‘elitist cc’ build and possibly a paranoid positioning behavior. I am not saying this map is bad for general pvp, but it’s shouldn’t be considered competitive in my opinion.

It’s not forcing you too. I still run the same build that i always run. i don’t even bring scorp wire, screw that lame skill. The only thing that has changed is my playstyle for the map.

google.3709:

People who like the map
People who play classes with lots of cc to throw people off

People who DON’T like the map
People who play classes without cc or that refuse to play the fotm class just because of an ugly map

fixed.

Heizero.9183:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

I like theorycrafting to fight for all ocassions. I don’t like having to complete drop any non-cc builds for a map that occurs once every 4 rotations. I can adapt, sure, but forcing everyone to pick up styles that others prefer isn’t the best way to go. Same copy&paste method because there are only a certain amount of ccs you can bring (thieves scorpion wire, necro spectral wall or any fear really, guard hammer&shield&spiritweapon, engi big ole bomb, rifle, battering ram, mine, etc). It’s not that hard to figure out. It’s just a matter of landing it. It doesn’t promote any sort of personal style just an ‘elitist cc’ build and possibly a paranoid positioning behavior. I am not saying this map is bad for general pvp, but it’s shouldn’t be considered competitive in my opinion.

It’s not forcing you too. I still run the same build that i always run. i don’t even bring scorp wire, screw that lame skill. The only thing that has changed is my playstyle for the map.

It’s forcing me when the only way to win is to get heavy cc. if you aren’t bringing scorpion wire then kudos to you but you are hindering yourself from being able to gank people more often if you become keen at it. There are no hidden rules here, people play to win and will bring whatever they can to win in tpvp. Given that, heavy cc is the way to go no matter how you look at it. But I guess no one is forcing me to hit the queue button which is true. I’ll stop tpvping if this is the way they intend to go. Sorry for the backlash I guess, but something needed to be said about this imo.

edit: And your playstyle just happens to be more viable as well. Backcapping is always necessary. Bunkering nodes let alone fighting on nodes at all became less necessary due to the laser. CC became more necessary period.