Guild Wars 2

It’s a very creative map that puts a large emphasis on positioning and using skills/tactics that you don’t use on other maps.

Yes…you can get 1-shot by being in the wrong place at the wrong time…but it works both ways…so why complain.

It’s not like every map is like this one, so a little variety is nice. The peril of being 1-shot adds a different element than the other maps and keeps you on your toes.

In many ways, it requires a more diverse skill set. You need knowledge of your character, other characters, and positioning much more than normal.

Anytime you require players to use skills they haven’t used previously or skills they can’t master, then you will get complaining.

SPESHAL.9106:

It’s a very creative map that puts a large emphasis on positioning and using skills/tactics that you don’t use on other maps.

Yes…you can get 1-shot by being in the wrong place at the wrong time…but it works both ways…so why complain.

It’s not like every map is like this one, so a little variety is nice. The peril of being 1-shot adds a different element than the other maps and keeps you on your toes.

In many ways, it requires a more diverse skill set. You need knowledge of your character, other characters, and positioning much more than normal.

Anytime you require players to use skills they haven’t used previously or skills they can’t master, then you will get complaining.

Any player, good or bad, can use stability and cc. That’s not competitive, that’s more like rock paper scissors. I don’t mind having to acquire new skillsets, but this map destroys the previous themes of having to fight more than rely on specific game changing opportunities to eliminate your foes. Let alone limiting the builds for this map.

Example: FPS, bad with a sniper? Too bad, we are forcing players to play a game mode with only snipers. Better yet, rocket launchers because anyone can use a rocket launcher.

The meta of this map is whoever executes the best CC wins. You can say it takes skill all you want, but if that’s all it comes down to, then it is a terrible map.

PvP sort by quality:

Tpvp > Hotjoin > Skyhammer

One time in this map was enough to hate it. I know they wanted to make something new but i cant help it i dont like it. I love other new content but not this map. Reasons was already said here many times.
It is my personal feeling, if someone like it..ok. But i dont.

I play mesmer and it is horrible. I tried to stomp a staff mesmer and out of the blue the floor fell and took me together with it! So I died from falling. Other thing is when I’m about to execute my combos the bloody cannon blows all of my clones up and me together with it. Sure I can port dodge etc but with cannon, platform and thieves trying to kill me what the kitten do I do??

If they had made this an spvp map only first before forcing it down our throats to at least see its issues people wouldn’t b going wild. I mean Jesus Christ wtf is the meaning of spoiling team runs in tpvp js to show this stupid map. They could have at least let us try it in spvp alone first.

Errant Venture.9371:

It’s a cheese map, Build Wars trumps Guild Wars. I.e. if you spec for kittentons of CC + fear you will do better than someone who is more talented and runs a build where the goal is to actuall kill another player or bunker the point.

It’s fine for hotjoin/having fun trolling people, but it’s an awful competitive map

Spot on.

this is why http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1754/w3dx.jpg
also worth noting: i have done 25 games on my engi 20 of which during beta.

krippler.9826:

The meta of this map is whoever executes the best CC wins. You can say it takes skill all you want, but if that’s all it comes down to, then it is a terrible map.

Kind of how condi spam takes tons of skill on other maps. And whoever can condition nuke a point fastest is the most “skilled player?” Really…

I’m noticing that going ranged and getting on the ledges with the jump pads is more sustainable than fighting on point, especially against guards and engis

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

*Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity *

The only thing the map brings that is “fresh” is the possibility for a worse player to beat a better player through fall damage, surely you don’t think the cannon is “fresh” or “Different” ?

Templates? Yes! they would help a ton! i like bunkering on certain maps, roaming on others and just plain damage on others, it would be soo much easier!

Allie Murdock.8152:

Keep discussing, but I’m curious: Would having templates alleviate the issue of not wanting to respec for certain maps?

We do see teams shift their comps around for certain maps (and it seems to be very effective), would this not be along the same lines?

Keep the feedback coming, this is great!

Templates would help, but the map is really bad, everyone now runs with full CC build (well, almost everyone) and the main focus is to throw people down instead of actually trying to kill them…it’s just a game of golf :|

A fun troll map, maybe, but I would never want to see a tournament where everything is “red team throws blue guardian down…blue guardian throws red engi down…” over and over :|

Allie Murdock.8152:

Keep discussing, but I’m curious: Would having templates alleviate the issue of not wanting to respec for certain maps?

We do see teams shift their comps around for certain maps (and it seems to be very effective), would this not be along the same lines?

Keep the feedback coming, this is great!

My PvP build works perfectly fine in any other map, runes, sigils, traits, gear, everything is the exact same. The new map is the only map i need to rework my entire build and play style.

krippler.9826:

The meta of this map is whoever executes the best CC wins. You can say it takes skill all you want, but if that’s all it comes down to, then it is a terrible map.

I wish I was as smart as you and could make conclusions about a map after just 24 hours.

Thanks for also telling us all about the meta of this map before there is one. You’re a true sage.

Mastering this map requires much more than just CC , but it’s a waste of time to even explain it to people like yourself who can’t adapt, don’t like change, and think all maps should play to their preferred playstyle.

One of the strengths of GW2 is that you can respec/re-gear both before and during a match. Thus, even if the map was heavily weighted to one set of skills, you can easily adapt…unless of course you’d rather just whine on the forums.

This map is really fun in non-organized play, but when people start taking it too seriously (= competitive), it starts feeling cheap. It’s a map that’s fun when the instant-kills are chaotic and not coordenated, so it works very well in hot join. I’d say this is the single best casual map in the entire game.

Keep discussing, but I’m curious: Would having templates alleviate the issue of not wanting to respec for certain maps?

Certainly yes, but I’d say templates are generally more important to incentivate people to experiment with new builds, or to help them diversify more their own gaming experience. Many builds work well across all maps, skyhammer aside.

hey allie wanna have baby templates with me lol

DiogoSilva.7089:

Many builds work well across all maps, skyhammer aside.

Exactly, I am very profecient in one build I use for PvP, and in WvW. Another build brings another playstyle.

If its not broke, what is there to fix? With one build I have somewhat mastered and used in every situation, and now this comes out. I agree the map is fun, but it shouldnt be used in TPvP. Making troll builds shouldnt be necassary for getting the W.

http://poll.pollcode.com/rgdcx_result?v please vote so we can have a actual sample

Littlefeather.8623:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Many builds work well across all maps, skyhammer aside.

Exactly, I am very profecient in one build I use for PvP, and in WvW. Another build brings another playstyle.

That’s a positive so long as it’s meaningful for every profession.

Allie I like the map but honestly I think you guys should bring someone in the environment/map team to increase the size of the control panel room at the least. Extremely cramp. That and the cannon getting some kind of damage nerf or doing % damage.

Templates are just a good idea for the game as a whole. When they came into GW1 it was great for the game and it would be great for this too.

This map is way, way more skill-based than other maps, it is extremely fitting for a tPvP environment.
It is fun to watch, fun to play, unforgiving and with higher learning curve compared to the other ones.

What’s the difference of a map being CC centric and other tPvP maps? In other tPvP maps it is only bunkers and conditions anywhere, so why people are complaining if they release a map in which both conditions and bunkers are not the best way to go?

And, by the way, I agree about templates. They are extremely useful.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Keep discussing, but I’m curious: Would having templates alleviate the issue of not wanting to respec for certain maps?

We do see teams shift their comps around for certain maps (and it seems to be very effective), would this not be along the same lines?

Keep the feedback coming, this is great!

Templates would be beneficial, if nothing else just to speed things up slightly, however it doesn’t quite change that the skyhammer map offers close to nothing of value compared to the other maps.

Allie Murdock.8152:

What I was trying to gauge by asking the template question was whether or not folks are open to changing their build if it was more convenient for them or if it was a matter of them only wanting to play one build for eternity. I can see that it’s a mix of both, now.

The reason why the Cannon control room is small is because the cannon itself is powerful so we didn’t want to make it easier for players to dominate the cannon and continuously hammer those on the field with no consequence. With that in mind, do you still feel the space is too small? Also, with the small space in mind, do you still feel that the shots should be dodge-able?

Are you guys saying that you would prefer to have a less powerful cannon that is easier to defend?

Remove it from tpvp please as long as their is instant kill mechanics is doesnt belong in tpvp the majority of the community agrees its a fun map for hot join not tpvp

Tbh the canon needs to be very strong..if you degrade it to another treb the map will lose.It definately cant be dodgeable with that huge telegraph.
Imo you need to take away some the importance of cc on the map.Like make it harder to knock people off map but not impossible

The cannon hits like a meteor and the area of effect is the size of Asia. That’s why it’s bad.

Allie Murdock.8152:

What I was trying to gauge by asking the template question was whether or not folks are open to changing their build if it was more convenient for them or if it was a matter of them only wanting to play one build for eternity. I can see that it’s a mix of both, now.

The reason why the Cannon control room is small is because the cannon itself is powerful so we didn’t want to make it easier for players to dominate the cannon and continuously hammer those on the field with no consequence. With that in mind, do you still feel the space is too small? Also, with the small space in mind, do you still feel that the shots should be dodge-able?

Are you guys saying that you would prefer to have a less powerful cannon that is easier to defend?

I think thats the problem right there.

There are builds coming out at the moment that CAN dominate that cannon area to the point where its SO hard to stay up.

I honestly think that a couple things need to happen to the cannon.

1) You cant commune while invulnerable/mistformed/whatever. Should be like the buffs. I can walk in as an Ele, interrupt someone, mist form commune and then I have control of the cannon. So if i have full health and stability, i can go in, fire a shot, get out and continue fighting.

2) You should not be able to channel the shot while taking damage. Should be exactly like the buff at Spirit Watch I think.

3) The cannon’s area should be smaller. You should have to be like “Give me a target”, teammates target someone, aim at that targets area, and fire. Damage is fine, unavoidable is iffy but if its not able to team wipe people on a point I think it becomes better.

4) Increase the cooldown on the Cannon. 6 seconds is VERY fast. I think it should be 10.

I think some things for it can be tweaked, but I think its a very fun map and adds a new “style” to conquest which is awesome.

and Allie….GIVE US BUILD TEMPLATS. ANET PLZ

Allie Murdock.8152:

What I was trying to gauge by asking the template question was whether or not folks are open to changing their build if it was more convenient for them or if it was a matter of them only wanting to play one build for eternity. I can see that it’s a mix of both, now.

The reason why the Cannon control room is small is because the cannon itself is powerful so we didn’t want to make it easier for players to dominate the cannon and continuously hammer those on the field with no consequence. With that in mind, do you still feel the space is too small? Also, with the small space in mind, do you still feel that the shots should be dodge-able?

Are you guys saying that you would prefer to have a less powerful cannon that is easier to defend?

Not just easier to defend, but easier to assault. A wider room gives the assaulter some space to work with. Or moving the two front glass panels to the back would also work instead of making it wider. At that point as the defender, there is a bit more pressure on you because of the glass behind you to make up for the assaulter eating 3 marks/traps/ turrets on entry.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Keep discussing, but I’m curious: Would having templates alleviate the issue of not wanting to respec for certain maps?

It’s really insane how annoying changing up specs is. Templates should have been in at launch for both PvP and PvE. I hope this question means you are working at implementing this ASAP.

if you want to win most of your matches go bunker guards with hammer and outlast them

Allie Murdock.8152:

What I was trying to gauge by asking the template question was whether or not folks are open to changing their build if it was more convenient for them or if it was a matter of them only wanting to play one build for eternity. I can see that it’s a mix of both, now.

The reason why the Cannon control room is small is because the cannon itself is powerful so we didn’t want to make it easier for players to dominate the cannon and continuously hammer those on the field with no consequence. With that in mind, do you still feel the space is too small? Also, with the small space in mind, do you still feel that the shots should be dodge-able?

Are you guys saying that you would prefer to have a less powerful cannon that is easier to defend?

Space is fine (altho camera is a kitten when you’re trying to keep your backs to the wall to avoid getting blown off), I think. Just make the shots avoidable and/or reduce the radius

Allie Murdock.8152:

We do see teams shift their comps around for certain maps (and it seems to be very effective), would this not be along the same lines?

And we see teams play their same comp on any map (which has been even more effective in some cases).

Do you really intend to create maps where people bring different classes to each map (not just builds but classes, because if you change your build completely on a class and still can not approach the effectiveness of another class whose function you are trying to imitate, you might as well play your regular build or another class).

You should be trying to make every single class effective at any of the roles in different ways without too much an advantage for any particular class. Is it going to be easy? Definitely not. Are they going to be perfectly equal in their capacity to fulfill a certain role? No, but it can be close.

The answer is not to give up on that ideal design by creating classes as distinct and superior at any given role, that your only choice is to “re-roll” to that class to be effective and not put yourself at a huge disadvantage, because the game currently doesn’t offer enough combat related synergies to accommodate all kinf of specific roles and the support of these by the remaining team.

If you do not realize that and intend to pursue a currently unsustainable model, it would have been much easier and sensible to go back to having archetypes in GW2.

Skyhammer is a fun map!

People were complaining about new pvp gaming mode, this in a sense is a entirely new way of playing. Someone I was playing against said this is like super smash bros, but I see it as khylo + dragonball.

Need to be able to dodge the shots. With the amount of CC already going around wasting a dodge or setting up a cannon spike with CC is much easier to do.

If this map is hard for you then well your a baddie, plain and simple….u bad.

I’m a Terrormancer, the opposite of mobility and stability. I roll face…

Awesome work Anet, just make the cannon shot dodgable.

Allie Murdock.8152:

I guesss what I’m getting at is, what is it about changing your spec that you do not like? Is it just having to learn how to play a different spec, or is it the idea of having to click all those buttons and change your gear around (ie helped with templates)?

It’s being forced to play something you don’t want to play because on this map and only this map it is useless. As others have said, I can play the class and build I enjoy on all of the other maps at an acceptable level. On Skyhammer? Nope.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Med.6150, great points! To piggyback a little on what kirito.4138 said, are you also fine with having every map be a conquest map? Or do you think that new game modes would/should not require respecing as well?

I guesss what I’m getting at is, what is it about changing your spec that you do not like? Is it just having to learn how to play a different spec, or is it the idea of having to click all those buttons and change your gear around (ie helped with templates)?

Okay, I think I wasn’t clear on my points. I am not the kind of guy that has a problem changing my spec to change my role (if this happens through templates, it will make my life a little easier, but not having templates certainly wouldn’t keep me from doing it).

The issue I have is that not every class can change their build and be even close to as effective as another class and given the current design of combat, the game mode and the impact a certain role has on the dynamics of a match and its outcome (like having one player pushing the opponent’s far node 24/7 against a defender), it is even more dramatic when a role or function becomes overwhelmingly decisive.

Basically, let’s assume what people here have said about this map was true and all that mattered was having stability and crowd control on your classes to dominate this map. You can immediately understand how this doesn’t work, because not every class, regardless of how much they may try to adjust their build, is going to be equally effective (and when I say equally, I mean “not even close”, which is what would be desirable).

I have no problem with adapting my build. The problems are:
Skyhammer specific: CC dominates, DPS is obsolete. Best thing to have is CC dealing bunkers with maybe some conditions → Nothing that´s fun for me. Ofc I can play DPS, but I end up as a brick to the legg of my team. Allso for elementalists outside tornado there is only staff bunker as an efficient spec. For mesmers I can´t see any really powerful spec. This map favors some professions too much, while trashing others. This map binds us to one playstyle with mostly just one build per profession and makes some professions as such obsolete.

In general: I get annoyed every single time I´m forced to run to all the traders to change to a build I know by heart, the only alternative to this is having multiple characters of each profession.
Allso: Your Idea of build diversity doesn´t really get to me. I still feel the same patterns. Some shifted, but its still the same, poor diversity.
Gimme interrupt mesmer No casting bars, just more interrupt skills/a trait making mantras AoE (might be op, but it would give us the long desired AoE every PvE mesmer misses, propably reduce the damage/duration of the effects by 50% if this trait is chosen?) or less punishing trait spreading for area Interruptions.
Last part is wrong forum, but maybe here someone reads it, instead of having another ignored thread in mesmer forums…

The map is fine as is. The only problematic part is when u survive falls and have to let the wurms kill you in order to return to the spawn area.

Allie Murdock.8152:

I guesss what I’m getting at is, what is it about changing your spec that you do not like? Is it just having to learn how to play a different spec, or is it the idea of having to click all those buttons and change your gear around (ie helped with templates)?

For me, I would prefer to tweak my spec to fit a map but not be forced into totally revamping my build. At the very least, there should be multiple styles of play for each class that you can bring to a map and have some success. When a map pushes everybody to the same type of build, it ruins the unpredictability that makes pvp fun. I don’t want to know exactly what to expect every time I encounter a warrior, necro, etc. I want to adapt and require my opponent to adapt as well once we engage. This map basically forces everybody to load up on as much CC + stability that they can and then find out whose one-shot hit goes through first. It’s too predictable and unfun.

a longer cooldown on the cannon would help

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, that’s fair! Do you have any suggestions then, to maybe change the map a little to make up for classes that might not be as good at CC?

Someone mentioned making it harder, but not impossible, to knock people off the edge. Would something like that make you feel better about sticking to your class?

This is great feedback, btw. We really appreciate the constructive nature of these threads.

No don’t touch the environmental aspects of the map, completely destroys the whole purpose of the map if you make it impossible to fly off ledges or fall through floors.

The only thing that needs to be added is dodge turret shot, that’s it!

Look just because some people got feared or thrown off a cliff, came to the forums cried a river, that doesn’t mean make a knee-jerk change and mess up the map.

@Allie Murdock

Templates would help, this and every map. Currently people are so fixated on one particular build that they refuse to try new things and the lack of flexibility when it comes to switching builds could be a big reason for this.

Currently, a lot of players will have to make 2 or more characters of the same class to be able to run different specs or simply try new builds. By adding templates it would relief a lot of the pressure that it comes with changing builds. Also, it would allow players to try new builds and then swap back to their regular spec without having to go through all the work, people would become more open minded. It’s all the clicking that makes people lazy! and knowing that they most likely have to switch back! Lazy 101

To all others…..
Every map has a different mechanic… I don’t think it was intended by Devs for classes to have 1 god spec that works for all maps but rather have players adjust their builds according to the mechanics of each map. after all… all maps are unique for a reason and map rotation only happens once every few days.

Allie Murdock.8152:

No knee-jerks here, just trying to get a feel for things! Thanks!

Look the number of ways to get pushed off makes this map unplayable for tpvp. If the map remains how it is please make it hot join for now.
For tpvp these changes or something like them need to occur
1. Remove the breakable floor panels at points A and C the back wall is already open their doesnt need to be an overkill of ways to be killed
2. Reduce the cannons damage make it dodgeable and blockable
3. Make jump pads action skills instead of touching them and flying. ITs very annoying when you are using a gap closer and you touch one and you fly up into the air.
Those 3 simple things and this map would be great for tpvp if you dont want to make these changes please remove it from the tourny rotation the majority of tpvpers do not like this map. Its amazing for hot join but not competitive play
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Survey-about-skyhammer-map/first#post2388121 The thread showing tpvpers dont want it unless changes