Guild Wars 2

Allie Murdock.8152:

Med.6150, great points! To piggyback a little on what kirito.4138 said, are you also fine with having every map be a conquest map? Or do you think that new game modes would/should not require respecing as well?

I guesss what I’m getting at is, what is it about changing your spec that you do not like? Is it just having to learn how to play a different spec, or is it the idea of having to click all those buttons and change your gear around (ie helped with templates)?

New gamemodes would be awesome, but new maps are needed for them I think. These maps are just ways bigger than what we need for a deatmatch for example or king of the hill.

What I’d like to see is Heroes’ Ascent Where you get from one gamemode to another in a chain, you are able to change your skills and traits for 1 min before the game starts.

Templates would be useful here, too.

Also, winning Hall of Heroes was the greates reward PvP could give, currently PvP has no feeling of epicness. You join the match, win, restart. You join the match, lose, restart. This gave us a sense of progression and to get consecutive wins did matter. And to be on the top of the foodchain even just for 2 matches at HoH, was awesome.

Keep conquest your competitive scene, but that alone won’t carry the 80% of the population who actually want to play an MMO PvP, not an e-sport playground of 8 dedicated teams.

I really like the new map and I would not change anything. It forces us to change our builds and playstyle and to use some skill or elites that were since now almost useless. It is completely part of tpvp in my opinion. It is not matter of skill alone, also of tactics and smartness. I think every map should be part of tpvp, even spirit watch, that was very fun, even if difficult to play. However I suggest to introduce some way to balance the maps and make gimmick builds less usable. The idea around Heroes Ascent was perfect. A series of different maps, which taken alone were easy to abuse, but you had to think at the team as a whole, and the team should have worked for all the maps, and not only for the first one. Something similar can not be achieved in gw2, because you can easily reroll even in the middle of the game. But if ANET can find a way to reintroduce that variety in game, and create more complicate tournaments, not based on a single map alone for 3 days, it would be much more interesting for all of us having many different objectives and maps.

Pretty much i think the one thing we can all agree on and Allie should take to heart is that WE ALL WANT TEMPLATES. =D

Skyhammer is annoying and new.. and it takes getting used to, I raged for a good 4-5 hours before I learned how to position myself better but the problem is that it’s way too easy for anyone with half a brain to Root>Position> Knockback anyone who is not running enough stability to resist it all… multiple times.

Engineers are the gods of camping the Railgun.. a good engi can even get double kills if he plays it right or uses a elite.. which is pretty silly..

SkyHammer is fun map and I enjoy to play it very much, but i really dont thing this map should be in tpvp (as long as they are rated).

Just wanna pop in for the templates. This is needed overall, it will slightly enhance build diversity.

As a hot-join map, I think Skyhammer works great as it is.

For tournament, I think the instant-kill elements should be toned down/ modified. For example, the “glass floors” could make players fall into a floor bellow, instead of instant-killing them. This would make knockback/ launch builds strong, without making them overpowered.

I also think the cannon room is too tight. It’s way too easy to protect it by spamming aoe, and it has the extra disadvantage that you can’t see anything because of spell’s effects, and you can’t dodge to anywhere because you’ll simply die. A suggestion is to place the portal a bit higher above the ground, where the player would be required to fall to the cannon room’s ground, and use a jumping pad to get back to the portal and leave that room. This would make it easier (I think?) for players to avoid traps, assuming that traps couldn’t be placed right next to the portal this way.

About templates, I like to experiment new builds, but I don’t do it often because of how inconvenient it is. The same applies for PvE. This was an extremely convinent feature in GW1, that incentivated me to experiment more (= fun) and diversified my gameplay experience, as I would change builds more often.

About changing builds to new game modes, I would love to. Especially in a game mode that would put stronger emphasis on control and party support, and less on bunkering. I would absolutely love to see a game mode where (defensive) party supporters would be more important than self-defensive bunkers, for the simple reason that the former implies team playing, the later does not (or not as much). Control is king in Skyhammer, and decent in Spirit Watch. Party support is decent in Spirit Watch. The flag mechanic is cool because if incentivates builds that work around protecting the carriers, but unfortunately, bundles do not work well enough in this game to make an entire mode out of it. If I could make a suggestion, is to make a conquest map or a assault-the-base map that would work similar to JQ/ FA in GW1, where protecting NPCs and preventing opponents from reaching them was a crucial strategy. Support builds are completely unreliable in current conquest maps, skyhammer included (except giving stability to allies, I guess), especially in solo queue, because players are always spreading.

Templates are certainly a feature that I (and most likely a lot of players) miss since last year. Its so tedious to keep all your setup in mind if you change something, probably having to work with screenshots to make sure you remember your gear, traits and skills…

So, yes, templates, please!

And something else that I’m missing since a long time, kind of related to build setup and templates: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Weapon-set-slots-for-each-weapon-combi-out-of-combat/first#post1817808

Allie Murdock.8152:

Med.6150, great points! To piggyback a little on what kirito.4138 said, are you also fine with having every map be a conquest map? Or do you think that new game modes would/should not require respecing as well?

I guesss what I’m getting at is, what is it about changing your spec that you do not like? Is it just having to learn how to play a different spec, or is it the idea of having to click all those buttons and change your gear around (ie helped with templates)?

I would love different types of modes (pure capture the flag would be a personal favorite).

Allie Murdock.8152:

What I was trying to gauge by asking the template question was whether or not folks are open to changing their build if it was more convenient for them or if it was a matter of them only wanting to play one build for eternity. I can see that it’s a mix of both, now.

The reason why the Cannon control room is small is because the cannon itself is powerful so we didn’t want to make it easier for players to dominate the cannon and continuously hammer those on the field with no consequence. With that in mind, do you still feel the space is too small? Also, with the small space in mind, do you still feel that the shots should be dodge-able?

Are you guys saying that you would prefer to have a less powerful cannon that is easier to defend?

Here is the simple fix:

I like the overall idea of the map, I do also think though it’s a fair point that throwing people off the ledge in that map may currently be just too easy and giving knockbacks just too much value. Yes teams make tweaks between maps because some things are more effective than others in different maps but, no map takes one mechanic and suddenly makes it way out there valuable to the extent this one does.

One of my teammates suggested the problem is really the disappearing blue plates and I think he is right. They’re fun but aren’t and probably can’t be made balanced. There are a lot of edges to throw people off as is in the map, more so than any other map by far. Adding the disappearing plates on top feels like overkill for knockbacks. Also, as players will soon find out scorpion wire can’t be countered as it can be cast from stealth and pull you through to a plate that just disappeared without you having a chance to counter. If someone can instant gib you without you have a chance to react that’s not good pvp.

IMO sounds simple but just turn off the plates from disappearing and have them just be decorative and this map will feel much more balanced while still having a lot of new unique elements like the jumping mechanics and the open ledges for knockbacks. If you do that you can leave the cannon area as is as it will be easier to defend, then to compensate I would make the cannon area 20% smaller and the damage 20% lower to make it a bit less powerful, but not much. Don’t make it dodge-able, the area of effect animation combined with dodge-able will make it too easy to avoid. You need just one or the other and I much prefer undodgeable than no area of effect animation. There is too much guessing on your dodge timing to avoid treb the rea of effect animation with no dodge is not always easy to avoid but is tangible and makes you pay attention. Guessing in pvp IMO is bad, reacting to something difficult to handle but clear is good and is a much better skill check.

And templates? Yes absolutely, they are desperately needed and would make tweaks between maps much more friendly. However, maps should encourage minor tweaks, like I said this map value knockbacks and pulls just tooo much it’s over the top. Templates won’t fix that.

IMO it’s just ridiculous how much a gimmicky cc/stab specs have an advantage on this map. I play a guard, and the canon room can be easily dominated by just having two fight there maybe even one if you are good enough. I don’t mind winning, but not like this. It’s fun but I can’t take this seriously.

Hi there
We definitly need to be able to have several templates on one class, actually i have 2 chars for each class i play so i don t need to change templates.

Now about skyhammer, i think it s a great map, with new ideas that i really like. For the moment i plaid thief a lot on it and without any CC, like none at all except basi venom and immobilize on sword. And when i see a CC oriented build, i just kill him while he tries to cc me out of the map. I played like 50 games on this map and was only knocked out three times, one was a suicide.
This map is great for hotjoin as you can troll the hell out of ppl and zerging isn t a good idea at all because of the cannon.
I agree the cannon need to be toned down, the area of it plus the non dodgeable factor is jus too much.

I also think this map would be great for tourneys under some conditions.
Actually it just to much of a cc/stab thingy, you could see Team pardigm playing with 3 guardians.
For this map to be playable, we need to change how tournaments are working.
It’d be great if the tournament map was a random map, so you won’t be able to spec for the map.
I think it’d be great if you had a first screen were you could just see the ennemy composition, so you can adjust your build to it thx to templates and then you just enter a random map and fight. Once you enter the map, you won’t be able to change your build anymore but keep weapon swapping at the beginning or skill change for some combo fields.

Luthan.5236:

Teutos.8620:

Class balance and viability on Skyhammer
Every class have some skills, that either fear, pull or push you down. If you have to be a lot more careful where you stand. In combination with the laser canon immobilize and freeze matters even more. Let’s wait and see, if the meta on this map will change, that the teams will only try to kick the other team down, and use the laser canon for additional damage or not.

Warrior has fear. He is useful now. Lol.

Regarding spectating/eSports: Is there a fixed cam point near the cannon room? The 1 time I spectated at an hotjoin I only found near the mid point and down near the portal?

Just not.

Fear Me! will be useful in far future, when CD be changed to 30s.

Instant kills make this map not worth it. The skill in GW team oriented pvp was being able to down and then stomp an enemy. Thats gone with this map and its over abundance of instant kill. Not to mention the 1 interesting mechanic (the cannon) is far to over powered to be taken serious when you can have a gimmick CC class standing up there since the portal is ridiculously buggy.

Its not even a matter that we have to change comps – thats fine, but rather than making something like power builds better you just added a new mechanic (instant kill) to make people not play condi builds. Sometimes the answer isnt to add new things but to balance…

Jesiah.2457:

Gee … I wonder why you love this map where as others hate it. You ONLY play one of THE MOST imbalanced classes in game currently AND on top of that you can fear-spam and “one hit kill” people! Not hard to put two and two together.

Because pressing one button and landing a kill equates to pure raw skill, obviously! So naturally you’re going to support and defend this easy victory mode for yourself without testing it on other classes that don’t have such an easy time “one hit killing” players and then go on to say this map is amazing. Brilliant.

And if you ask me … any kind of one hit kill mechanic in a game like this where the emphasis is on skill and “outplaying” your opponent, just doesn’t belong. This does not support that in the slightest, it just supports making the cheesiest and most gimmicky ‘one-hit-kill’ builds you can come up with and does not really give much room, if any at all, for counter play, which is a MUST have for any game to be competitive.

This map is just trolly gimmicky garbage that doesn’t belong in competitive PvP.

Actually, half the time I was on the map was spent getting ganked by a thief who was easily twice the better player than I was. I was both outplayed on 1 v 1 and h also could kill me easily with the one-hit kills, since the thief had their own access to fear and pulls when fighting me.

You seem to misunderstand something very critical: You think that I enjoyed the map because I won. Problem with that assertion: I didn’t win. I played that map about 10 times, my team lost 7 of them.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, that’s fair! Do you have any suggestions then, to maybe change the map a little to make up for classes that might not be as good at CC?

Someone mentioned making it harder, but not impossible, to knock people off the edge. Would something like that make you feel better about sticking to your class?

This is great feedback, btw. We really appreciate the constructive nature of these threads.

3 Professions(Necromancer, Ranger, Mesmer) completely lack the ability to Launch someone and the same 3 Professions also have a small amount of abilities availible that can Push someone, combined with these 3 Professions having less or the same amount of stability availible as the remaining 5 professions, they’re simply not of much use on a map where they’ll be knocked down repeatedly with no actual way of countering it. Due to the massive amounts of Launches / Pushes certain Professions such as Engineers and Warriors also have, these 3 professions have little use on this map.

But then again, I’ll just stand by my opinion that a map where you can oneshot another player simply through crowdcontrolling them is awful.

One thing to note especially is how you just need the kb skills and then you can bunker spec. Due to the ability to insta kill, bunkers can kill just as easily as dps sepcs or at least scare the living kitten out of people from close calls before your friendly skyhammer drops a nuke on that point. What’s the point of traits if all it takes is cc to win :x

The cannon platform is so poorly designed? Were they not aware that there is stuff like fear in the game? There is nearly no fear save spot, add one freaking L-shaped wall so that people have atleast a chance to not get feared off.

Dojo.1867:

The cannon platform is so poorly designed? Were they not aware that there is stuff like fear in the game? There is nearly no fear save spot, add one freaking L-shaped wall so that people have atleast a chance to not get feared off.

Quit moaning and learn to play, please. There are plenty of spots where you can prevent being feared. Stop coming to the forums and bashing when you have no idea how to play.

On cannon platform are plenty of spots to prevent being feared? Sure.

Also guess 70% of proplayers that don’t want this in turneys either should learn to play, too.

Dojo.1867:

On cannon platform are plenty of spots to prevent being feared? Sure.

Also guess 70% of proplayers that don’t want this in turneys either should learn to play, too.

Nice statistic you pulled out of thin air, and yes they should learn to be more diverse.

the new map favors engi and necros above all else and proves how USSLES the warriors are

Templates please. gear/rune&sigil/trait templates would be amazing. would also make it easier for pugs to quickly setup for roles if they needed to before matches start.

Skyhammer comes to:

1 – Show how OP some classes are.
- CC, Summons, High Sustain even in 1 vs 3, and more and more and more.

2 – How useless some classes are.
- Poor weapon skills, High cost low reward utility and traits, No Sustain even in 1 vs 1.

If you’re complaining about Warriors in Skyhammer, you probably don’t know how to play warrior very well because they can do some serious damage in the cannon room.

Yeah, warriors have good access to stability and cc, make use of that!

Adam.6047:

Dojo.1867:

On cannon platform are plenty of spots to prevent being feared? Sure.

Also guess 70% of proplayers that don’t want this in turneys either should learn to play, too.

Nice statistic you pulled out of thin air, and yes they should learn to be more diverse.

Assuming we are considering pro players in the top 1000 or even top 500… then all of them I have talked to and played with, we all generally agree this map is terrible for tournaments. I was very sad to hear Mist League was adding it to their rotation.

Also – Im glad you think we should be more diverse… cause playing gimmick builds to take advantage of gimmick mechanics really shows who the better players are right?

Isaac.6041:

If you’re complaining about Warriors in Skyhammer, you probably don’t know how to play warrior very well because they can do some serious damage in the cannon room.

Ok

All PvP warriors are playng wrong.
Only WvW warriors Plays Right.

:/

JETWING.2759:

Isaac.6041:

If you’re complaining about Warriors in Skyhammer, you probably don’t know how to play warrior very well because they can do some serious damage in the cannon room.

Ok

All PvP warriors are playng wrong.
Only WvW warriors Plays Right.

:/

Hammer/Mace CC warrior is quite strong on this map. You have to remember, this map cares way less about actual stats and way more about skill effects.

Parisalchuk.9230:

JETWING.2759:

Isaac.6041:

If you’re complaining about Warriors in Skyhammer, you probably don’t know how to play warrior very well because they can do some serious damage in the cannon room.

Ok

All PvP warriors are playng wrong.
Only WvW warriors Plays Right.

:/

Hammer/Mace CC warrior is quite strong on this map. You have to remember, this map cares way less about actual stats and way more about skill effects.

You forget the very lower dps of hammer and mace, against 4, 5 or 6 summons hiting, cc, dealing condition, and protecting the foe. All then ready to face the first one that enter in roon.

What would help:

Make the backside of the sidepoints accessible with the jumping pad there. You can jump on level higher, but you can’t get on the highest one.
The one with the glass platform on it.

This way you can come from behind if the other team has someone on it. As a necro I just stand on far point, on the edge of that glass platform and can fearlock people coming inside the node.

Don’t know, if people will know what I mean. Might need to take a screenshot.

JETWING.2759:

Parisalchuk.9230:

JETWING.2759:

Isaac.6041:

If you’re complaining about Warriors in Skyhammer, you probably don’t know how to play warrior very well because they can do some serious damage in the cannon room.

Ok

All PvP warriors are playng wrong.
Only WvW warriors Plays Right.

:/

Hammer/Mace CC warrior is quite strong on this map. You have to remember, this map cares way less about actual stats and way more about skill effects.

You forget the very lower dps of hammer and mace, against 4, 5 or 6 summons hiting, cc, dealing condition, and protecting the foe. All then ready to face the first one that enter in roon.

Necromancers are very vulnerable to crowd control by warriors and guardians.

butch.8136:

What would help:

Make the backside of the sidepoints accessible with the jumping pad there. You can jump on level higher, but you can’t get on the highest one.
The one with the glass platform on it.

This way you can come from behind if the other team has someone on it. As a necro I just stand on far point, on the edge of that glass platform and can fearlock people coming inside the node.

Don’t know, if people will know what I mean. Might need to take a screenshot.

I understand completely and totally agree.

I’ll try and state my observations without a wall of text.

The glass floor is a death without much/any counter play. Interactive environments are a great idea but the glass in its current implementation promotes abusing mechanics rather than promoting skill play (I define skill plays as those that occur with both combatants having a fair shake at attacking and reacting). I am all for different maps promoting different builds but any map that promotes class stacking or abuse of skill mechanics is deplorable in a PvP enviroment.

If the current glass mechanic stays, I would prefer it not to be an instant death. If anything, falling through should make you start back at spawn with no rez timer (or you could fight the sandworms for survival… something less punishing is what im advocating).

Just wanted to chime in that I love the new map. I don’t think it needs any changes personally. The people who don’t like it are just angry they will have to switch specs for it or change team comps. Not everything should play perfectly for your condition spam meta, sorry.

il make it short 2 bunkers on close point 3 cc heavy classes on cannon .. broken and very boring gameplay , jump pads should have faster and stronger jump cuz now it feels like it is in slow motion , and to all ppl that say this map req skill ? haha very funny , in game where you can die instant it cannot be skillfully balanced it takes 1 small mistake or ..the fact some classes don’t have same cd on be it cc or stability ..those that do have upper hand ,skilled or not.
Oh and jumping on glass ..so when it brakes to insta pull 1 guy in to the hole does not req skill itc just something some classes can do others cant.

candlecan.9827:

I’ll try and state my observations without a wall of text.

The glass floor is a death without much/any counter play. Interactive environments are a great idea but the glass in its current implementation promotes abusing mechanics rather than promoting skill play (I define skill plays as those that occur with both combatants having a fair shake at attacking and reacting). I am all for different maps promoting different builds but any map that promotes class stacking or abuse of skill mechanics is deplorable in a PvP enviroment.

If the current glass mechanic stays, I would prefer it not to be an instant death. If anything, falling through should make you start back at spawn with no rez timer (or you could fight the sandworms for survival… something less punishing is what im advocating).

Hm…fighting a sandworm may be quite the punishment lol. It’d allow the other team to have 5 v 4s above you while you are busy killing a sandworm to I guess respawn? Anyways, that thought was probably just thrown out there so nvm. Some changes to the fall punishment could improve the tpvp experience for less favored classes but not by much. More than not, they’ll still get knocked over again.

candlecan.9827:

I’ll try and state my observations without a wall of text.

The glass floor is a death without much/any counter play. Interactive environments are a great idea but the glass in its current implementation promotes abusing mechanics rather than promoting skill play (I define skill plays as those that occur with both combatants having a fair shake at attacking and reacting). I am all for different maps promoting different builds but any map that promotes class stacking or abuse of skill mechanics is deplorable in a PvP enviroment.

If the current glass mechanic stays, I would prefer it not to be an instant death. If anything, falling through should make you start back at spawn with no rez timer (or you could fight the sandworms for survival… something less punishing is what im advocating).

I agree the glass could be fixed. i really like the thrown back to spawn idea.

On a second thought, being pushed back to spawn could be abused as a way to avoid giving the enemy points from kills. =/

Iblisjinn.1365:

il make it short 2 bunkers on close point 3 cc heavy classes on cannon .. broken and very boring gameplay , jump pads should have faster and stronger jump cuz now it feels like it is in slow motion , and to all ppl that say this map req skill ? haha very funny , in game where you can die instant it cannot be skillfully balanced it takes 1 small mistake or ..the fact some classes don’t have same cd on be it cc or stability ..those that do have upper hand ,skilled or not.
Oh and jumping on glass ..so when it brakes to insta pull 1 guy in to the hole does not req skill itc just something some classes can do others cant.

Actually, speaking about jump pads, it’d be nice to allow more skills to be activated in the air :x

Heizero.9183:

On a second thought, being pushed back to spawn could be abused as a way to avoid giving the enemy points from kills. =/

I actually think that would be interesting it would give them time to cap the point but not give them a free kill.

Iblisjinn.1365:

il make it short 2 bunkers on close point 3 cc heavy classes on cannon .. broken and very boring gameplay , jump pads should have faster and stronger jump cuz now it feels like it is in slow motion , and to all ppl that say this map req skill ? haha very funny , in game where you can die instant it cannot be skillfully balanced it takes 1 small mistake or ..the fact some classes don’t have same cd on be it cc or stability ..those that do have upper hand ,skilled or not.
Oh and jumping on glass ..so when it brakes to insta pull 1 guy in to the hole does not req skill itc just something some classes can do others cant.

Takes about as much skill as AoE spamming conditions, maybe more since you actually need to be aware of stability and positioning. lol

It reminds me of Quake III. Just need a rocket launcher. Too bad there’s no charzooka in pvp ;_;

When you fall, you should fall into the cannon room (it should be larger of course). So, do you kill them on point, or knock them right to your support? That would be some fun carnage imo.

JETWING.2759:

Isaac.6041:

If you’re complaining about Warriors in Skyhammer, you probably don’t know how to play warrior very well because they can do some serious damage in the cannon room.

Ok

All PvP warriors are playng wrong.
Only WvW warriors Plays Right.

:/

i’ve seen effective hammer warriors, mace warriors, even sword/shield and rifle warriors. this map is like a good warrior’s paradise.

Heizero.9183:

On a second thought, being pushed back to spawn could be abused as a way to avoid giving the enemy points from kills. =/

what if it gave the points, but it was always an instant respawn? sure you got the kill the “easy” way, but the enemy will be back before you can refresh your CDs and health. it doesn’t punish good use of CC, and it isn’t frustrating for the losing party because they’re instantly back in the action.

and unless i’m missing something, there isn’t much to exploit here. the worst case scenario would be people admiting defeat and killing themselves for an assured respawn.

i like this map in jot join cause is very funny!
But i don’t think is a great map for a spvp tournament so i will never play this map if i will see skyhammer in the tournement

Lue.6538:

3 Professions(Necromancer, Ranger, Mesmer) completely lack the ability to Launch someone and the same 3 Professions also have a small amount of abilities availible that can Push someone, combined with these 3 Professions having less or the same amount of stability availible as the remaining 5 professions, they’re simply not of much use on a map where they’ll be knocked down repeatedly with no actual way of countering it. Due to the massive amounts of Launches / Pushes certain Professions such as Engineers and Warriors also have, these 3 professions have little use on this map.

But then again, I’ll just stand by my opinion that a map where you can oneshot another player simply through crowdcontrolling them is awful.

Necros have fear which is very effective at getting people off ledges, they also have a strong knock back with flesh golem. Ranger has a powerful knock back on a low CD with LB and a 2 sec AOE fear with wolf. Mesmers have an AOE pull on low CD with focus and a knock back on GS.

Do please make sure you know all the classes you’re commenting before doing so. Thanks.

It’s so fun trying to avoid stealthed scorpion wires.

Anet for the love of god remove this map from tpvp we had a fair poll and it showed the tpvp community did not want this map. But of course polls are invalid on the forums -_-. Its a fun hot join map not a tpvp map.