Guild Wars 2

I realize this is the SPvP forum here and I’m not trying to cause any problems by dragging the PvE aspect of the game into this … but I am definitely quite curious as to why SPvP seems so constricted on stats vs PvE.

I’m not really sure what the point of this is. I imagine this causes discrepancies between damage capabilities and I assume that would make the game harder to balance, or at least a bit more of a chore to do so when trying to compare numbers side by side.

Furthermore … by comparison of the two, it seems like SPvP feels more pigeon holed into builds due to this fact. Trying to customize stats between an amulet and a jewel really feels very limiting, and thus makes damage in SPvP truly seem much more trait reliant, which feels very much like being pigeonholed into specific builds / playstyles to truly feel effective. (I realize a bad build will always be a bad build, but when comparing the two worlds … geeze … you can do a lot with sources of stats from 6 pieces of gear, weapon sets, two rings two earings and a “back” item)

Before I try to sound like I know everything, I’ll admit that I main thief, and I have limited experience with other classes … but I can say I’ve spent many hours practicing a multitude of trait layouts coupled with amulets / jewels / runesets and sigils for thief … and it really feels like I can’t get away from using traits to create a large majority of my damage … and if I ignore damage traits for a more defensive playstyle yet try to maintain “decent” damage using Zerker Amulet / Jewel, I lose a rather significant amount of damage while still maintaining the ability to explode almost instantly to 100% damage builds even though I’m heavy into Shadow Arts & Acrobatics. It hardly seems to outweigh using damage traits over defensive ones (And I blame this on the lack of customization of stats in SPvP)

Basically what brought this post up … is I was wondering if a more defensive build would become more viable in SPvP should we have more stat customization that would allow for high enough damage through the spread of mostly offensive stats and some defensive stats … or perhaps have a high damage setup with added defensive stats from other stat sources so that you don’t instantly explode to everything using that kind of build.

Otherwise I’m left with the feeling that “glass cannon” is more like trash cannon because you’re either extreme damage and insanely squishy … or you’re medium to high damage (when buffed) and still pretty squishy anyway with a defensively traited Thief. I can’t say this for all classes, but from a thief perspective, this is what I’m experiencing. And can definitely say I don’t want to play a build where I can down someone with 4 buttons and try to pretend like it’s skill when it realistically just negates this game’s amazing engine / ability to outplay your opponent using dodges / movement and positioning.

I honestly think it’s stupid, and not even competitive at all. I think instantly gibbing someone with teamwork is skill. But I think instantly gibbing someone 1v1 or with ridiculous burst damage from ONE player is FAR from skill, and that kind of trash is ruining this otherwise amazing game.

But the thief will never be tanky. You can put some traits and the jewel with some toughness, but your true defense will ALWAYS relay on evading and invisibility.

Because WvW isnt really PvP. its PvWalls.

And yeah, the thief is probably the least versatile profession.
Eles arent bad, but Guardians are probably the best atm.

If invisibilty / stealth actually stopped ranged skills (channeled especially) to stop casting, then stealth would be a much stronger defensive mechanism. Unfortunately it doesn’t, AND if someone like a ranger is attacking with high latency when you stealth … they’ll still do quite a lot of damage while you’re supposedly “hidden” before it stops them from shooting. It’s very much just a fluff mechanic at this point.

Evasion seems to be the true “tanky” aspect of Thief, more dodges is definitely huge, but if you build around that your damage can suffer tremendously even though you’re ridiculously hard to hit / lock down, which IMO if you’re just dodging all the time and not fighting … you wouldn’t be adding a whole lot to a team fight.

I’m not trying to request thief be tanky … but I’d definitely like to see Thief get away from the blow all your CD’s and instantly burst someone down then run away because you’re unable to fight back after that … and instead have more viability in being able to go toe to toe and support a team fight, which to me would be like giving thief class the opportunity to actually play in such a way that’s outplaying your opponent rather than just bursting them down before they can even react.

Between traits, weapon sigils, armor runes, and amulet/jewel, I find there is plenty of ways to customize. I do recall however wanting to try an obscure build at some point and not finding an amulet with the stats I wanted.

Well you can do a hybrid build where you are actually tanky by constantly stealthing. Scrubbing conditions each time you stealth as well as healing, then relying on might stacking to keep dmg up. Works quite well.

Yeah … I normally run with 0 / 15 / 30 / 25 / 0 for my … somewhat survivable build, because it runs with Zerker Amulet & Jewel, full divinity runes for the sake of added toughness and health. Through traits / chosen traits it lands at just over 18,000 health and 50% crit when over 90% health. Yet even with +300 toughness, and 3,000 – 4,000 more health than the average glass cannon thief … this build can still go down almost instantly to a glass cannon anyway. (This is part of what makes me feel that spvp seems pigeonholed)

Which is what makes me wonder if actually having the ability to add in a little bit of toughness here and there while topping off crit at about 50% base (through say armor, weapons, rings, earing, back item … etc) would make a defensive build stronger for thief in spvp, and thus more viable perhaps … rather than just blow someone up and run away when you can’t fight back after that type build, and even that build you could throw in extra toughness and health so that you DON’T instantly explode.

Otherwise the traits hardly seem worth it when comparing the fact that you can still go down almost the same, yet you sacrifice a considerable amount of damage (on top of controlled burst IE: Hidden Killer)

I suppose it’s possible to run 0/30/30/10/0 or /0/30/30/0/10 and do more controlled burst, but the health pool is still quite low and makes you even squishier (and the toughness at that point doesn’t seem to do much at all, you’ll still instantly go down to other glass cannon thieves, let alone any other glass cannon out there should you have no way to escape the burst, even at 100% health)

Suppose you grab a Soldier’s Amulet & Zerker jewel? Well … even with controlled burst like that, and not being as squishy … damage suffers even further from less consistency of crits and then 15% less crit damage. So while you can sustain and not instantly squish, that damage needed to down something quickly starts to feel a bit further off.

I guess realistically what I’m sayin’ is I’d love to have the stat customization that WvW has in SPvP as well. I really don’t see what the necessity for the difference between the two is.

Maybe anet didn’t want PvE players upset that spvp has all the same things but they don’t have to “work for it”? No matter how it honestly goes, though, WvW seems more interesting in light of the fact you can do more actual customization of your character via stats. And because of this, SPvP feels lacking.