Guild Wars 2

A lot of players have stated that roamer builds are selfish by nature. Honestly, I don’t get it:

• either you solo roam, and by nature it’s selfish (since you’re alone),
• either you roam with guild mates, and optimized builds are actually way more group-oriented than in PvP, since they can focus on fighting, and do not need to incorporate alien elements, such as node control.

Also, roaming is not dueling, it’s much more than that. It’s a bit surprising to see that some people still cannot make the difference.

The point, as many have stated, is that many roamers – or, more generally, non-PVPers – come to PvP without understanding about what PvP is (Conquest), and as such not only do not optimize their builds, but do not play efficiently. This is simply a lack of knowledge about PvP, which PvPers irrelevantly attribute to other game modes.

Wvw players bring different mentalities and sub-optimal builds to a different game type, just like spvp players do when they try to roam.

The difference is when you lose in spvp, there’s no debating it. You lost. In wvw no one ever loses because a death is always blamed on lagging/getting zerged/being outnumbered/cheese builds, without understanding that a more talented roamer could have overcome the situation.

This line up of excuses is why so many spvp players convince themselves they’re as talented as anyone else at roaming, but far superior at spvp. That leads to the condescension you’ve observed.

The lack of experience is evident in wvw, people don’t count dodges correctly, hardly anyone fake casts abilities. It’s usually either free kills or imbalance builds where most of the damage comes from passive condis that take little effort to apply. It’s really rare to see someone that knows what they’re doing.

Most successful builds in wvw can just reset the fight which becomes a crutch as it doesn’t force you to learn to fight in someones face from start to finish and learn the details of pvp.

I’m not saying this play-style isn’t credible or fun it’s just tough sometimes for some people to transition to conquest after logging many hours playing this way.

There is also a lot less variety in roamer builds as to what you come across in spvp. In spvp you can jump from one class to the next without the need for leveling so you also get to learn all the other classes much faster on an equal ground. I think this is probably one of the biggest reasons spvpers have an advantage. When you only take 15 seconds between fights against a larger variety of builds, while playing all the different classes, you learn at an accelerated rate. You can spend minutes in wvw finding a target that is either a support class, up-leveled or a forever runner. Picking off stragglers running support builds doesn’t make you better, even if you kill 100 a day.

I pvp mainly but sometimes roam because it’s just nice to change things up. I have never met an experienced pvper that struggled in wvw roaming. I don’t even bother with food or stacks most of the time because it really isn’t needed.

the sPvP players that say such things are obviously clueless, if they try and play wvwvw for a few hours they would be surprised with the amount of rank 80 (Dragon Stomps) that are displayed in wvwvw.

Volrath.1473:

the sPvP players that say such things are obviously clueless, if they try and play wvwvw for a few hours they would be surprised with the amount of rank 80 (Dragon Stomps) that are displayed in wvwvw.

But you do recognize the wvw PU mes, SA D/P thief, GS Sword warrior play-style is easy to spot when it makes it’s way into spvp.

It’s like the guy who shows up to the party in his Griffindore quidditch outfit to what is clearly a Storm Trooper party. People just can’t allow that.

How can two types of players from different skill set find common ground? Open positioning fighting is basic in MMO (wvw),conquest is rare , remove conquest and put a less spacy map like a fighting arena more builds in pvp and it becomes a lesser version of wvw . Conquest is also why some builds are considered too strong like turrets and tanks which should dominate because they’re point holder builds.

Volrath.1473:

the sPvP players that say such things are obviously clueless, if they try and play wvwvw for a few hours they would be surprised with the amount of rank 80 (Dragon Stomps) that are displayed in wvwvw.

Dragon rank isn’t anything anymore. It’s basically handed out for free to everyone… If you’re not rank 80 I’d say you’re pretty kitten new to PvP…

The amount of matches and time it takes to get from rank 0 to 80 show some good pvp experience. It does not determine the player’s skill. I have met so many rank 80 from various servers I have transferred within WvW and I can honestly say the majority are really bad players on solo and group encounters. Based on some posts made here it goes both ways. The reality is that someone that excels from one environment does not excels in the other if he/she has not spent enough time developing the skills associated for that setting. I’m learning that now. I’m still good and even called pro by some players in spvp but I know I still got some ways to go within this area of the game. If it wasn’t for all my pvp experience acquired as a solo/group roamer I wouldn’t perform as good to spvp on the first day coming back after over a year and a half. Let’s be real for a moment if you played other mmorpg games you should have learnt that the majority of players are awful in pvp. It is not rocket science but it does take great amount of time, thinking and most importantly experience to become a skillful player.

LightningBlaze.4913:

The amount of matches and time it takes to get from rank 0 to 80 show some good pvp experience. It does not determine the player’s skill. I have met so many rank 80 from various servers I have transferred within WvW and I can honestly say the majority are really bad players on solo and group encounters. Based on some posts made here t goes both ways. The reality is that someone that excels from one environment does not excels in the other if he/she has not spent enough time developing the skills associated for that setting. I’m learning that now. I’m still good and even called pro by some players in spvp but I know I still got some ways to go within this area of the game. If it wasn’t for all my pvp experience acquired as a solo/group roamer I wouldn’t perform as good to spvp on the first day coming back after over a year and a half. Let’s be real for a moment if you played other mmorpg games you should have learnt that the majority of players are awful in pvp. It is not rocket science but it does take great amount of time, thinking and most importantly experience to become a skillful player.

Not to mention you need to be able to build your own builds. Sure you can run a “off the shelf” build posted by someone else, but you will more likely then not never match the skill level of the original creator who spent hundreds maybe thousands of hours perfecting his or her play with said build.

Too many think that if you get some off the shelf build posted as “meta” then you will do fine. truth be told, you wont
I see this all the time. i play glassbow ranger, supposedly a hopelessly inferior build with zero chance of ever being good or as the “pro” players say “viable”. Yet i can, albeit my crap MMR and low rank, still carry my team against some names i recognize from top from 500 soloQ Bottom line is that i know my build, cuz i configured it and set it up myself. tweak it to my likings rather then grab some random spirit build.

There is this other factor of WvW and that is the map awareness. In PvPyou gotta know the location of 9 players spread over a map the size of the Citadel in the borderlands. In WvW you got to be aware of 199 players in the borderlands, and 299 people in EBG. These maps are the size of 4-5 PvP maps combined, which means you gotta suddenly expand your “bubble of awareness” in addition to your perceived sense of how fast the enemy can move in relation to you, about 5 times more then what you need in PvP. This sense of speed in relation to size is also prolly why many WvW roamers end up over rotating. Because they think they got almost no time at all to make it to the next node, while infact, they are in no hurry for atleast 15-30 seconds.

Because three people capping one point makes it cap faster.

Prysin.8542:

In WvW you got to be aware of 199 players in the borderlands, and 299 people in EBG. .

Lol, u dont need it (besides it’s impossible to know for sure).

Ostricheggs.3742:

Volrath.1473:

the sPvP players that say such things are obviously clueless, if they try and play wvwvw for a few hours they would be surprised with the amount of rank 80 (Dragon Stomps) that are displayed in wvwvw.

Dragon rank isn’t anything anymore. It’s basically handed out for free to everyone… If you’re not rank 80 I’d say you’re pretty kitten new to PvP…

exactly, even randoms are r80…don’t forget most of them were just 55+ before rank’s dumbing down

Voljin.5421:

Because three people capping one point makes it cap faster.

Especially if they have commander tags, then it is getting capped super fast, just like bashing the doors with auto…

I must say these threads are always entertaining. Here’s another one, but in the wvw section.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/A-challenge-for-the-wvw-community

Shadow of Azrael.1205:

Prysin.8542:

In WvW you got to be aware of 199 players in the borderlands, and 299 people in EBG. .

Lol, u dont need it (besides it’s impossible to know for sure).

sure you do, and yes it is possible. Depends on the server, but yes it is possible.

I actually learned to PvP in WvW mainly. The gear limitations aren’t really my cup of tea even though some specs end up being much more OP – like the Condi Meta in WvW compared to PvP.

Of course in PvP there are still Meta Builds that people follow and those that I’ve found quite frustrating to play against, but I guess that’s how Anet balances their game.

Generally though as mentioned the average WvW player is not Geared or skilled at Small Scale skirmishes which you get while roaming, and also the power creep is rampant in WvW. Some PvPers I’ve run into in WvW roaming seem to do have a bit of an ego as Amonatory mentions.

Either way Roaming for me is to yolo and to have a bit of Small scale fun outside of my Guild Raids.

tanztante.6532:

i admit, the thrill to kill is powerful, but you have to disengage in pvp. you’re needed elsewhere.

And that´s the funny thing in this whole WvW vs SPvP bashing. If i go out in WvW with my team (3-5 people), i am going out to kill kitten or be killed. That´s PvP for me, remember P stands for “Player” and not capture “Point”. SPvP is boring as kitten for me, but whoever likes this game mode, fine, everybody should do what everybody wants. But these SPvP´ers who are trying to tell everybody and their mother that WvW player´s are bad at PvP, that´s just ridicoulous stupid.

nobody said that. well some did, i didn’t. i have to admit, the attitude towards wvw roamers is generally toxic and i don’t like it. BUT! the question was why, so we all stated the possible reasons

we at [vain] took it upon ourselves to sacrifice fame and glory for fun and teambuilding, so we, as a guild, care a lot about our playerbase and we get in a lot of people from wvw, who are very, very capable of playing their profession. not only those so called cheesebuilds like the PU mesmer etc,... . a lot of those genuinely understand their profession and know how to max it out. but again, that doesn’t automatically make them all good spvp players, so we train them and spend a lot of time in lower lower levels with our alt-accounts for exactly this reason. most of them have to simply learn how to rotate and when to engage and when not. not everyone, i never said that.

simply put: it’s a different game mode and you have to adjust your playstyle to it, in order to be successful.

mordran.4750:

That´s PvP for me, remember P stands for “Player” and not capture “Point”.

In 10minute spvp match i usually get more decent pvp encounters than in 1-2 hours running around the wvw maps.