Guild Wars 2

You cant nerf mesmer without nerfing ranger try killing ranger bunker with any mesmer build you wont be able to do it.

Extreme.8350:

You cant nerf mesmer without nerfing ranger try killing ranger bunker with any mesmer build you wont be able to do it.

Thats.. because… its a bunker >_>
You can’t kill any bunker 1v1…

Terrorsquad.4802:

Extreme.8350:

You cant nerf mesmer without nerfing ranger try killing ranger bunker with any mesmer build you wont be able to do it.

Thats.. because… its a bunker >_>
You can’t kill any bunker 1v1…

Yea i’sent that exactly why they want mesmer nerfed ?

Extreme.8350:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Extreme.8350:

You cant nerf mesmer without nerfing ranger try killing ranger bunker with any mesmer build you wont be able to do it.

Thats.. because… its a bunker >_>
You can’t kill any bunker 1v1…

Yea i’sent that exactly why they want mesmer nerfed ?

Because its broken, together with other elite specs like Druid, Tempest, Scrapper en Revenant…
I think it’s very obvious its broken and too rewarding for close to no input.

Rebound.3409:

U have teleport as an ele also :D

But in a 1v1 against a chrono bunker it’s saved for escaping wells. You can know how to beat a mesmer but because they can reset cooldowns and you can’t they just won’t die. Oh and chill doesn’t last as long on them which ensures alacrity will have shorter windows being countered -_-

The ele teleport also can’t make you trivially travel between points and even has LoS issues at times.

Agemnon.4608:

Rebound.3409:

U have teleport as an ele also

The ele teleport also can’t make you trivially travel between points and even has LoS issues at times.

Thieves say “hi”.

Agemnon.4608:

3.Get turned into a moa without warning and for ludicrously long periods of time, be a sitting duck with no counterplay or access to your skills whatsoever.

Moa is my biggest concern with mesmers, way bigger than daze+stun from stealth. That’s why I love facing chrono bunkers with their double gravity wells.
Moa is one of the worst skill ever: you can’t break out of it, it lasts 10 kittening second (are they serious ?!). It has been there forever, and has received close to no complaint. Why ? WHY ?!

I’m really scared that after the balance patch we see chrono shatter with double moa from stealth. This kitten has to go.

Ara.4569:

Agemnon.4608:

3.Get turned into a moa without warning and for ludicrously long periods of time, be a sitting duck with no counterplay or access to your skills whatsoever.

Moa is my biggest concern with mesmers, way bigger than daze+stun from stealth. That’s why I love facing chrono bunkers with their double gravity wells.
Moa is one of the worst skill ever: you can’t break out of it, it lasts 10 kittening second (are they serious ?!). It has been there forever, and has received close to no complaint. Why ? WHY ?!

I’m really scared that after the balance patch we see chrono shatter with double moa from stealth. This kitten has to go.

No complaints because competent players can kill Mesmers while Moa’d or you can get away instead of running around like a Moa with its head cut off on point and not doing anything.

You probably never played against thief+mesmer: moa from stealth while you get immobilized and burst to death.

Ara.4569:

You probably never played against thief+mesmer: moa from stealth while you get immobilized and burst to death.

I have, again comes down to player competency, if you get Moa’d On point and are 1v2 a Thief and Mesmer you can disengage, if they are dumb they both chase you which stops them decapping and you will die, if they are smart let you run away, or one chases to kill you which is in your favor since Moa is very capable of downing players. You should never be able to survive a coordinated burst from 2 burst classes especially when Cc’d, so again to recap it comes down to competency.

Ara.4569:

You probably never played against thief+mesmer: moa from stealth while you get immobilized and burst to death.

You would die to a good thief + mesmer slapping your face any time of the day, outside of that skill! So whats your point?

Moa can be annoying yes, but it isnt breaking the game! lol…

People who still defend Mesmer at this point are either one of those Mesmer abusers himself, or those ruby hero casuals who never made pass ruby and haven’t seen how godly Mesmer is in high MMR games.

Rev is on the same table with Mallyx/ Shiro though.

Among all the current bunk class, despite all of them are good at 1 v 1, only Mesmer shine in outnumber fights because they use mechanic that is not damage mitigation/ heal, but damage immunity/avoidance, with permanent alacrity, slow, hard cc, lots and lots of block, invulnerable, excellent instant cleanse spam, permanent boons and so on. Don’t forget they’re the only class that’s hard to exploit them with rotation because of portal. 2 good bunk mesmers on the other team with good offensive Mallyx / Shiro Rev = free wins.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Extreme.8350:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Extreme.8350:

You cant nerf mesmer without nerfing ranger try killing ranger bunker with any mesmer build you wont be able to do it.

Thats.. because… its a bunker >_>
You can’t kill any bunker 1v1…

Yea i’sent that exactly why they want mesmer nerfed ?

Because its broken, together with other elite specs like Druid, Tempest, Scrapper en Revenant…
I think it’s very obvious its broken and too rewarding for close to no input.

Indeed, but then again, why patch notes say druid/ranger and scrapper see no nerfs, but buffs instead. And I dont belive ele will suffer alot from whats coming their way either…

And then again, revs and mesmers getting nerfed hard!

Oh, almost forgot… Necro seeing some buffs, while no nerf to reaper either…

Its not hard to see that this “balance update”, will make things worse then it is now! How the devs cant see this coming makes me very upset!

I mean not to offend anyone at Anet, but someone has to say it, who the hell got these suggestions to get pushed for live!?

Am I the only one seeing this!???

Its madness, maaaaaaadness!!!

BlaqueFyre.5678:

No complaints because competent players can kill Mesmers while Moa’d

Competent players don’t get killed by Moas

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

No complaints because competent players can kill Mesmers while Moa’d

Competent players don’t get killed by Moas

Competent players try not to fight off point too, so if you disengage they most likely won’t chase.

A problem is Chrono offers such basic quality of life features that it pretty much “fixes” what is wrong with core Mesmer – for example Chronophantasma, Time Catches Up, Time Marches On, Illusionary Reversion…

I mean, look how tied we were to Duelling for DE before HoT. Now it’s Inspiration because it offers so much in terms of survival and Chrono because DE isn’t mandatory anymore.

What I don’t like is how trait lines are such All or Nothing choices – it forces builds into any given line depending on the state of the game.
Want passable condi cleanse? Must take Inspiration. Want to play conditions? Must take Illusions. What decent clone/phantasm generation? Must take Duelling and/or Chronomancer. Want to play dps? Must take Domination.

I just don’t agree with the “high level” theory behind what trait lines should be as it creates forced choices and restrictions, and mesmer is especially subject to this problem.

Aomine.5012:

People who still defend Mesmer at this point are either one of those Mesmer abusers himself, or those ruby hero casuals who never made pass ruby and haven’t seen how godly Mesmer is in high MMR games.

Rev is on the same table with Mallyx/ Shiro though.

Among all the current bunk class, despite all of them are good at 1 v 1, only Mesmer shine in outnumber fights because they use mechanic that is not damage mitigation/ heal, but damage immunity/avoidance, with permanent alacrity, slow, hard cc, lots and lots of block, invulnerable, excellent instant cleanse spam, permanent boons and so on. Don’t forget they’re the only class that’s hard to exploit them with rotation because of portal. 2 good bunk mesmers on the other team with good offensive Mallyx / Shiro Rev = free wins.

I think no mesmer defend the chronobunk as it is! However people who main mesmer are a bit concerned about what we be left with outside of that chronobunk!!!

Core mesmer isnt that strong in pvp after all, atleast not in group pvp! Obviously some ignorant and clueless people would deny this, but they would have to eat it after this patch and the forums will be flooded with tears!

I can see this coming, mark my words!

Yeah all elite specs have broken aspects, fixes for Chono would be to either stop CS from resetting Elites, which is a no brainier or what would be the better choice is to make it an Elite all in itself. Goodbye 90% QQ about Chronomancer in sPvP especially with changes to quickness stomps/Rez.

Curunen.8729:

A problem is Chrono offers such basic quality of life features that it pretty much “fixes” what is wrong with core Mesmer – for example Chronophantasma, Time Catches Up, Time Marches On, Illusionary Reversion…

I mean, look how tied we were to Duelling for DE before HoT. Now it’s Inspiration because it offers so much in terms of survival and Chrono because DE isn’t mandatory anymore.

What I don’t like is how trait lines are such All or Nothing choices – it forces builds into any given line depending on the state of the game.
Want passable condi cleanse? Must take Inspiration. Want to play conditions? Must take Illusions. What decent clone/phantasm generation? Must take Duelling and/or Chronomancer. Want to play dps? Must take Domination.

I just don’t agree with the “high level” theory behind what trait lines should be as it creates forced choices and restrictions, and mesmer is especially subject to this problem.

Couldnt agree more!

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Yeah all elite specs have broken aspects, fixes for Chono would be to either stop CS from resetting Elites, which is a no brainier or what would be the better choice is to make it an Elite all in itself. Goodbye 90% QQ about Chronomancer in sPvP especially with changes to quickness stomps/Rez.

Yupp, that would do it!

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ara.4569:

Agemnon.4608:

3.Get turned into a moa without warning and for ludicrously long periods of time, be a sitting duck with no counterplay or access to your skills whatsoever.

Moa is my biggest concern with mesmers, way bigger than daze+stun from stealth. That’s why I love facing chrono bunkers with their double gravity wells.
Moa is one of the worst skill ever: you can’t break out of it, it lasts 10 kittening second (are they serious ?!). It has been there forever, and has received close to no complaint. Why ? WHY ?!

I’m really scared that after the balance patch we see chrono shatter with double moa from stealth. This kitten has to go.

No complaints because competent players can kill Mesmers while Moa’d or you can get away instead of running around like a Moa with its head cut off on point and not doing anything.

When you’re moa’d you’re usually focused by everyone.

Matty.1953:

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Stand The Wall.6987:

wow reading your post is annoying as hell, as well as factually wrong.

Get some glasses and stop trolling the forums!

Or… you can be a bit more constructive in your post… Telling someone that he’s wrong, and then not argue or explain why, is kinda lame dont you think!?

Forum warriors be like…

1) Mesmers dont run chronophantasms or illusionary reversion

This (quote) is enough reason to not argue with you anymore, it kinda says it all… rofl… The rest you say is rubbish aswell… Get out of the meta and see the real world for once…

There is nothing you can teach me about this class, iam a beta mesmer, and I played mesmer in gw1 for many years aswell (they do differ in some ways yes, obviously). Just sitting on this new account, lol…

You know nothing John Snow…

Agemnon.4608:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ara.4569:

Agemnon.4608:

3.Get turned into a moa without warning and for ludicrously long periods of time, be a sitting duck with no counterplay or access to your skills whatsoever.

Moa is my biggest concern with mesmers, way bigger than daze+stun from stealth. That’s why I love facing chrono bunkers with their double gravity wells.
Moa is one of the worst skill ever: you can’t break out of it, it lasts 10 kittening second (are they serious ?!). It has been there forever, and has received close to no complaint. Why ? WHY ?!

I’m really scared that after the balance patch we see chrono shatter with double moa from stealth. This kitten has to go.

No complaints because competent players can kill Mesmers while Moa’d or you can get away instead of running around like a Moa with its head cut off on point and not doing anything.

When you’re moa’d you’re usually focused by everyone.

Again, if you are Cc’d you should survive against anything other than 1v1 you are also capable of disengaging, who is to say you don’t have help while being Moa’d, everything looks bad in a vacuum every argument against Moa always talks about being outnumbered and that’s a flaw for those arguments.

Curunen.8729:

A problem is Chrono offers such basic quality of life features that it pretty much “fixes” what is wrong with core Mesmer – for example Chronophantasma, Time Catches Up, Time Marches On, Illusionary Reversion…

I mean, look how tied we were to Duelling for DE before HoT. Now it’s Inspiration because it offers so much in terms of survival and Chrono because DE isn’t mandatory anymore.

What I don’t like is how trait lines are such All or Nothing choices – it forces builds into any given line depending on the state of the game.
Want passable condi cleanse? Must take Inspiration. Want to play conditions? Must take Illusions. What decent clone/phantasm generation? Must take Duelling and/or Chronomancer. Want to play dps? Must take Domination.

I just don’t agree with the “high level” theory behind what trait lines should be as it creates forced choices and restrictions, and mesmer is especially subject to this problem.

Just a question. How do you suggest they set up the trait system? Be able to take any trait and any utility and have it work with any weapon on any class with any amulet in any situation? What would be the point of builds? Each trait line, as you’ve stated, serves a purpose. You have options for everything. Take what you want but know that you’ll be lacking in certain areas, unless you want to have everything which would, again, make builds pointless.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Curunen.8729:

A problem is Chrono offers such basic quality of life features that it pretty much “fixes” what is wrong with core Mesmer – for example Chronophantasma, Time Catches Up, Time Marches On, Illusionary Reversion…

I mean, look how tied we were to Duelling for DE before HoT. Now it’s Inspiration because it offers so much in terms of survival and Chrono because DE isn’t mandatory anymore.

What I don’t like is how trait lines are such All or Nothing choices – it forces builds into any given line depending on the state of the game.
Want passable condi cleanse? Must take Inspiration. Want to play conditions? Must take Illusions. What decent clone/phantasm generation? Must take Duelling and/or Chronomancer. Want to play dps? Must take Domination.

I just don’t agree with the “high level” theory behind what trait lines should be as it creates forced choices and restrictions, and mesmer is especially subject to this problem.

Just a question. How do you suggest they set up the trait system? Be able to take any trait and any utility and have it work with any weapon on any class with any amulet in any situation? What would be the point of builds? Each trait line, as you’ve stated, serves a purpose. You have options for everything. Take what you want but know that you’ll be lacking in certain areas, unless you want to have everything which would, again, make builds pointless.

Exactly this.

EVERY SINGLE PROFESSION IS WORKING LIKE THIS.
Mesmer is not the exception here.
Mesmer’s traitlines are better than most of the classes post June patch actually.
Stop lying about core Mesmer doesn’t work. It worked way back in June after the overtuned.

Aomine.5012:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Curunen.8729:

A problem is Chrono offers such basic quality of life features that it pretty much “fixes” what is wrong with core Mesmer – for example Chronophantasma, Time Catches Up, Time Marches On, Illusionary Reversion…

I mean, look how tied we were to Duelling for DE before HoT. Now it’s Inspiration because it offers so much in terms of survival and Chrono because DE isn’t mandatory anymore.

What I don’t like is how trait lines are such All or Nothing choices – it forces builds into any given line depending on the state of the game.
Want passable condi cleanse? Must take Inspiration. Want to play conditions? Must take Illusions. What decent clone/phantasm generation? Must take Duelling and/or Chronomancer. Want to play dps? Must take Domination.

I just don’t agree with the “high level” theory behind what trait lines should be as it creates forced choices and restrictions, and mesmer is especially subject to this problem.

Just a question. How do you suggest they set up the trait system? Be able to take any trait and any utility and have it work with any weapon on any class with any amulet in any situation? What would be the point of builds? Each trait line, as you’ve stated, serves a purpose. You have options for everything. Take what you want but know that you’ll be lacking in certain areas, unless you want to have everything which would, again, make builds pointless.

Exactly this.

EVERYTHING SINGLE PROFESSION IS WORKING LIKE THIS.
Mesmer is not the exception here.
Mesmer’s traitlines are better than most of the classes post June patch actually.
Stop lying about core Mesmer doesn’t work. It worked way back in June after the overtuned.

Yea and it was quickly undertuned. We lost a extra bounce on mirror blade.
they nerfed mantra cooldowns and PU + something else i don’t remember.
but it made it as bad as pre patch.

Aomine.5012:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Curunen.8729:

A problem is Chrono offers such basic quality of life features that it pretty much “fixes” what is wrong with core Mesmer – for example Chronophantasma, Time Catches Up, Time Marches On, Illusionary Reversion…

I mean, look how tied we were to Duelling for DE before HoT. Now it’s Inspiration because it offers so much in terms of survival and Chrono because DE isn’t mandatory anymore.

What I don’t like is how trait lines are such All or Nothing choices – it forces builds into any given line depending on the state of the game.
Want passable condi cleanse? Must take Inspiration. Want to play conditions? Must take Illusions. What decent clone/phantasm generation? Must take Duelling and/or Chronomancer. Want to play dps? Must take Domination.

I just don’t agree with the “high level” theory behind what trait lines should be as it creates forced choices and restrictions, and mesmer is especially subject to this problem.

Just a question. How do you suggest they set up the trait system? Be able to take any trait and any utility and have it work with any weapon on any class with any amulet in any situation? What would be the point of builds? Each trait line, as you’ve stated, serves a purpose. You have options for everything. Take what you want but know that you’ll be lacking in certain areas, unless you want to have everything which would, again, make builds pointless.

Exactly this.

EVERYTHING SINGLE PROFESSION IS WORKING LIKE THIS.
Mesmer is not the exception here.
Mesmer’s traitlines are better than most of the classes post June patch actually.
Stop lying about core Mesmer doesn’t work. It worked way back in June after the overtuned.

It’s late so I don’t feel like typing a huge reply, but let’s just say I don’t agree with the build system in this game. It offers a lot of false choices and too many restrictions. But that’s ok because I barely play anymore.

Mesmer’s reliance on traits is I believe still more than others, even since the last 7 months. A player is pigeonholed far too much in order for their build to function.

@SlayerSixx
I believe that traitlines should offer themes but not be so defining on gameplay. Lets take one thing – I believe every single Mesmer traitline should have an optional illusion generation trait (would obviously require a lot of work to balance tradeoffs but ultimately would open up far more build variety). Every traitline should have thematic optional condition removal, with tradeoffs. Ie, Domination you’d have “remove condition on interrupt” or something, Duelling “on crit” Inspiration “on heal” Chaos “on boon application”, etc… This is just flavour text to give you an idea of what I mean, and of course it would require gutting/reforming a huge part of the current system – which is why I don’t particularly care anymore because I will never happen.

Also things like Domination “apply certain conditions on interrupt”, Duelling “on crit (ie the confusion on crit trait which never made it)”, and so on.

Extend this to every element of gameplay – conditions, boons, class resource, direct damage, control, support and so on.

This way players could have dps/support/control options in every line, where each line affects how that plays out in practice – the theme of how the player wants to “express themselves”.

I hope that is clear, I would type a lot more but I’m on a phone.

This actually sounds like a really good idea, but how would you stop a dueling/domination or inspiration/chaos mesmers from repeatedly cleansing conditions? I suppose something like this would require each line to be expanded on and make it so that you can only take one of 6 lines, creating further depth.

Aomine.5012:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Curunen.8729:

A problem is Chrono offers such basic quality of life features that it pretty much “fixes” what is wrong with core Mesmer – for example Chronophantasma, Time Catches Up, Time Marches On, Illusionary Reversion…

I mean, look how tied we were to Duelling for DE before HoT. Now it’s Inspiration because it offers so much in terms of survival and Chrono because DE isn’t mandatory anymore.

What I don’t like is how trait lines are such All or Nothing choices – it forces builds into any given line depending on the state of the game.
Want passable condi cleanse? Must take Inspiration. Want to play conditions? Must take Illusions. What decent clone/phantasm generation? Must take Duelling and/or Chronomancer. Want to play dps? Must take Domination.

I just don’t agree with the “high level” theory behind what trait lines should be as it creates forced choices and restrictions, and mesmer is especially subject to this problem.

Just a question. How do you suggest they set up the trait system? Be able to take any trait and any utility and have it work with any weapon on any class with any amulet in any situation? What would be the point of builds? Each trait line, as you’ve stated, serves a purpose. You have options for everything. Take what you want but know that you’ll be lacking in certain areas, unless you want to have everything which would, again, make builds pointless.

Exactly this.

EVERY SINGLE PROFESSION IS WORKING LIKE THIS.
Mesmer is not the exception here.
Mesmer’s traitlines are better than most of the classes post June patch actually.
Stop lying about core Mesmer doesn’t work. It worked way back in June after the overtuned.

I dont agree!

Curunen.8729:

Aomine.5012:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Curunen.8729:

A problem is Chrono offers such basic quality of life features that it pretty much “fixes” what is wrong with core Mesmer – for example Chronophantasma, Time Catches Up, Time Marches On, Illusionary Reversion…

I mean, look how tied we were to Duelling for DE before HoT. Now it’s Inspiration because it offers so much in terms of survival and Chrono because DE isn’t mandatory anymore.

What I don’t like is how trait lines are such All or Nothing choices – it forces builds into any given line depending on the state of the game.
Want passable condi cleanse? Must take Inspiration. Want to play conditions? Must take Illusions. What decent clone/phantasm generation? Must take Duelling and/or Chronomancer. Want to play dps? Must take Domination.

I just don’t agree with the “high level” theory behind what trait lines should be as it creates forced choices and restrictions, and mesmer is especially subject to this problem.

Just a question. How do you suggest they set up the trait system? Be able to take any trait and any utility and have it work with any weapon on any class with any amulet in any situation? What would be the point of builds? Each trait line, as you’ve stated, serves a purpose. You have options for everything. Take what you want but know that you’ll be lacking in certain areas, unless you want to have everything which would, again, make builds pointless.

Exactly this.

EVERYTHING SINGLE PROFESSION IS WORKING LIKE THIS.
Mesmer is not the exception here.
Mesmer’s traitlines are better than most of the classes post June patch actually.
Stop lying about core Mesmer doesn’t work. It worked way back in June after the overtuned.

It’s late so I don’t feel like typing a huge reply, but let’s just say I don’t agree with the build system in this game. It offers a lot of false choices and too many restrictions. But that’s ok because I barely play anymore.

Mesmer’s reliance on traits is I believe still more than others, even since the last 7 months. A player is pigeonholed far too much in order for their build to function.

@SlayerSixx
I believe that traitlines should offer themes but not be so defining on gameplay. Lets take one thing – I believe every single Mesmer traitline should have an optional illusion generation trait (would obviously require a lot of work to balance tradeoffs but ultimately would open up far more build variety). Every traitline should have thematic optional condition removal, with tradeoffs. Ie, Domination you’d have “remove condition on interrupt” or something, Duelling “on crit” Inspiration “on heal” Chaos “on boon application”, etc… This is just flavour text to give you an idea of what I mean, and of course it would require gutting/reforming a huge part of the current system – which is why I don’t particularly care anymore because I will never happen.

Also things like Domination “apply certain conditions on interrupt”, Duelling “on crit (ie the confusion on crit trait which never made it)”, and so on.

Extend this to every element of gameplay – conditions, boons, class resource, direct damage, control, support and so on.

This way players could have dps/support/control options in every line, where each line affects how that plays out in practice – the theme of how the player wants to “express themselves”.

I hope that is clear, I would type a lot more but I’m on a phone.

I like this idea of yours, and I think you should post it in the mesmer part of this forum, before you give up on this game my friend!