Guild Wars 2

I saw a lot of posts regarding today’s patch as disappointing, and after reading the notes I kinda felt the same way too. However, the more I thought about it, the more I kinda realized, nothing this meta was really THAT broken to begin with.

Don’t get me wrong, you have your warriors and DHs, revenant struggled to keep up and necro just kinda sits there, these were obviously problems. However, I don’t feel like it was that bad though overall, for once almost all the professions get played, there wasn’t really one that was deemed complete garbage, revenant being the closest and even then it was just meh. Warrior and DH were annoying, but not unstoppable, just annoying. I felt like with a few little fixes it could do more for balancing than just doing the complete re haul on everything we kinda expected. Not perfect, but it makes sense.

I am annoyed that warrior can still be all cancer up in my grill, but such is life.

I think you’re right, I went to theory craft some new builds tonight to realize that things that worked before still work and things that didn’t work still won’t work. Maybe there’s some fringe stuff that can be done, but overall it’s a pretty bland update, which I think was anet’s intention anyway.

This patch gets a D.

It had lots of power creep, did little to address current power creep, and all the damage boosts and cooldown reductions were applied haphazardly.

Good (what kept it from being an F):

• DH trap healing is no longer ridiculous
• DH F1 is now realistically avoidable
• They at least recognized that Adrenal Health is a problem
• Dodge/evade spam thief is recognized as a problem

Bad

• Lowering cooldowns just increases spam and removes the need to make decisions. When cooldowns across the board are lower, you can make up for mistakes by spamming other skills and then your skills are off their shorter CDs.
• In most cases the issue is mechanical, not damage or CD. Guardian GS#2 did need a damage increase, but the big problem with it is the many projectile hits mean you get heavily punished by Retaliation for that insignificant amount of damage. Necro GS#3 didn’t need more damage; it needed more range. Necro GS’s big problem is that you can’t easily catch anything and the weapon’s defenses rely on hitting your target. If GS#3 had bigger range, the life force gain would help that survival and gap closing issue.
• Nothing was done to address the high level of elite spec power creep across the board. I doubt you’ll see non-elite meta builds in the next season.

Let’s agree to disagree. It’s not just about cooldowns, it’s about equilibrium of beautiful professions within a fast-paced virtual environment.

Today’s patch is an coronation of 4 months of assiduous work for balance, it is fruitful result of intense brainstorming for teamwork (aka 5v5) from the developers for 4 months, it is the very best solution after firm testing and tremendous combat log analyzing within the last season. We should be happy with this “creme de la creme” balanced content.

The state of balance is the best that has ever existed in the game. That doesn’t mean its perfect, you mentioned most of the issues. However, the strongest class got a minor tonedown (warr), DHs were never really an issue at the higher level anyway. Nec and Rev are rather reliant on good team support, which makes them a bit problematic in yolo Q, but that is probably rather hard to fix (at least for Nec where the unique DS mechanic creates quite another defensive dynamic than other classes have with tons of invulns/blocks).

I feel like the Standard Power Shiro needs another rework, the nerfs on the dmg skills while maintaining the ridiculously strong haste cleave AA with sword has brought the class into quite some disbalance.

Otherwise the balance is better than pre hot, were builds liket Cele Rifle Engi or Cele DD Ele were far dominant than anything in the current Meta. Also, there are no “dead” classes atm which aren’t played at all, while during other metas there was usually at least on class left aside completely.

Falan.1839:

Otherwise the balance is better than pre hot, were builds liket Cele Rifle Engi or Cele DD Ele were far dominant than anything in the current Meta. Also, there are no “dead” classes atm which aren’t played at all, while during other metas there was usually at least on class left aside completely.

Rofl, HoT power creep is way worse than the balance issues pre-HoT. The difference between HoT and pre-HoT is how forgiving and spammy the elite specs have become.

You could beat a mediocre cele d/d ele by avoiding the right attacks. Most just spammed them and they had nothing afterwards. Cele rifle engi was carried by a single trait (incendiary powder), which ANet just never nerfed. But if you cleansed IP quickly and the engis didn’t cover it with other conditions, cele rifle engi was also easy to deal with. Against Hambow warriors, you needed to dodge the longbow F5 and just kite or stab through their hammer CC chain.

Warr and scrapper are still going to dominate 1v1 because of their healing, anti-CC, and damage immunities/blocks. Ele will still be the go-to support because of their area damage and healing/cleansing. DH and warr will still carry at low levels with their high block uptime and high healing for having a damage-heavy build. Can’t punish mistakes when your target avoids damage and CC for so long.

DrDivine.5378:

…and necro just kinda sits there…

I take it you somehow never encountered a decent power necro, cos they’re a friggin monster in team fights.

Today’s patch was average because it didn’t nerf all of the elite specs. Thief got a slight nerf to their evade spam (which in turn nerfed DD evade spam), DH got slight nerfs via Purification and F1, Tempest got a very justified nerf to Air overload, but I don’t think any other elite spec was nerfed, and none of the above nerfs were enough.

Elite specs are still too forgiving of bad play. They still carry too hard, do too many things at once.

kin korn karn.9023:

DrDivine.5378:

…and necro just kinda sits there…

I take it you somehow never encountered a decent power necro, cos they’re a friggin monster in team fights.

Even the best power necro was just kinda meh, today’s patch actually made necro a lot better. with much more reliable damage.

Hesacon.8735:

I am annoyed that warrior can still be all cancer up in my grill, but such is life.

I think you’re right, I went to theory craft some new builds tonight to realize that things that worked before still work and things that didn’t work still won’t work. Maybe there’s some fringe stuff that can be done, but overall it’s a pretty bland update, which I think was anet’s intention anyway.

It had some good, the first thing that immediately popped out to me was necro, mainly power necro, feels much better this time around. I knew warrior wasn’t going to get a big hit, or at least in the damage department because let’s be honest here, berserker is all about being super aggressive and in your face. Without their raw damage they wouldn’t have much to work with, so I think trimming the healing down a bit was a good call.

We’ve become accustomed to huge changes patch wise because something is usually broken. Past examples include D/D ele, bunker chrono, turret engi, axebow warrior, shoutbow warrior, wtc. These were builds that not only defined PVP, but had very little counter play.

I complain about warriors sometimes and ESPECIALLY dragonhunters for being annoying with high damage and requiring little skill, but there wasn’t anything this meta that stood out as completely broken. I never once found a warrior or DH to be this unstoppable force in Tpvp, duels are a different deal but no profession was unbeatable, just some were in slightly awkward states (looking at you necro lol)

I hate the patch because Scrapper and Druid can still spec for super defence while still doing high damage with little effort. Until scrapper has to choose between using a block/evade and doing damage when pressing one button, they’ll be OP (unless they receive crushing nerfs to numbers which would be kittened), and druids can still run away, spam stealth, root for dayz etc, while letting their pets do most of the work because pets are still OP. Buff ranger damage, nerf pet damage. Also, increase the godkitten shout heal CD because that kitten has a 16 second CD! Beast Mastery is already a required line so nerfing the heal CD and pet damage won’t make it more mandatory. Improving pets, no matter how good or bad they are, and lowering shout CDs (because other utilities are crap) will always be part of PvP builds without reworks.

its not that bad. people will always find something to complain about. imo with more balance patches like this, this game is heading towards the right direction. well, that maybe a bit of an exaggeration. I will say its at least not headed in the wrong direction.

DrDivine.5378:

Even the best power necro was just kinda meh…

You’re joking, right? Power Necro was probably the best offensive build last season for team fights, as long as good support was present.

The only thin i would have liked to see would have been that core-class-lines get turned into elite specs in their own regards, it’s after all one of the reason for some builds overperforming so much.

All in all though this patch seemed to be aimed more at PvE than PvP and i actually like some of the changes a lot, the mesmer phantasms getting additional boni for example is very nice.

kin korn karn.9023:

DrDivine.5378:

Even the best power necro was just kinda meh…

You’re joking, right? Power Necro was probably the best offensive build last season for team fights, as long as good support was present.

That can be said for any profession, necro was not self sufficient and that’s a huge problem. Almost no 1v1 presence, you literally have to hold a necro’s hand the whole match and that will only get you so far. As in, if the person who is supposed to be supporting you makes a mistake, you’re going down with them. You can’t run and push for another node because you will face horrible matchups against warriors, druids, DHs, mesmers, those by themselves are awful.

You go into tpvp or a dueling room, you wouldn’t find many necros. The class is literally on life support and desperately needed some independence and not just a niche role lol

DrDivine.5378:

kin korn karn.9023:

DrDivine.5378:

Even the best power necro was just kinda meh…

You’re joking, right? Power Necro was probably the best offensive build last season for team fights, as long as good support was present.

That can be said for any profession, necro was not self sufficient and that’s a huge problem. Almost no 1v1 presence, you literally have to hold a necro’s hand the whole match and that will only get you so far. As in, if the person who is supposed to be supporting you makes a mistake, you’re going down with them. You can’t run and push for another node because you will face horrible matchups against warriors, druids, DHs, mesmers, those by themselves are awful.

You go into tpvp or a dueling room, you wouldn’t find many necros. The class is literally on life support and desperately needed some independence and not just a niche role lol

Who cares about dueling rooms? Winning matches isn’t about having the best dueling build. If you’re 1v1ing as a necro, that’s your problem. The AOE damage that power necro drops is unmatched, which is wasted on 1v1s, even if you can win them all.

DrDivine.5378:

You can’t run and push for another node because you will face horrible matchups against warriors, druids, DHs, mesmers, those by themselves are awful.

You were sounding quite convincing until you went and shot yourself in the leg with this comment.

i always thought the meta in season 5 was really good why would they need to change much for it to be considered a good balance patch?

zealex.9410:

i always thought the meta in season 5 was really good why would they need to change much for it to be considered a good balance patch?

Because there is also the off meta stuff. And they barely even touched that. That’s why every is disappointed by the patch.

Tomiyou.3790:

zealex.9410:

i always thought the meta in season 5 was really good why would they need to change much for it to be considered a good balance patch?

Because there is also the off meta stuff. And they barely even touched that. That’s why every is disappointed by the patch.

whats with the off season? i mean they can reduce the off season duration what else?

When people are still whining about HoT traitlines almost 2 years after the release. Elite specs are part of the game, deal with it. Some Classes even had their Core Mechanics balanced around them (Adrenal Health…) while others didn’t, which means the Core Mechanics itself are completely imbalanced if taken without the Elite Specs.

zealex.9410:

Tomiyou.3790:

zealex.9410:

i always thought the meta in season 5 was really good why would they need to change much for it to be considered a good balance patch?

Because there is also the off meta stuff. And they barely even touched that. That’s why every is disappointed by the patch.

whats with the off season? i mean they can reduce the off season duration what else?

By “off meta stuff,” he means non-meta builds, not offseason.
(But it’s unclear which non-meta builds he thinks need balancing.)

Exedore.6320:

Necro GS#3 didn’t need more damage; it needed more range. Necro GS’s big problem is that you can’t easily catch anything and the weapon’s defenses rely on hitting your target. If GS#3 had bigger range, the life force gain would help that survival and gap closing issue.

I agree that would help the weapon alot more then just a damage increase.

The problem is these balance patches are like every three months. They changed so little that basically we will have the same crap for 6 months. As for all classes getting played I think this is an exaggeration. Sure all get played but really I swear in high gold low plat at least it was about 30-40% DH and Warriors on average. Thats silly. I wasn’t expecting a ton but I really feel like not nerfing trap stacking from multiple DH is stoopid. There needs to be diminishing returns on traps of the same type laid down by different DH in a small time frame. I have no problem with 1 DH in general but once you get like 2 or 3 on one side that Trap stacking is just bad/unfun game play that is hard to avoid. Warriors just needed more of a nerf period. They have too much condition clear/avoidance and really overall damage avoidance 8 seconds of taking no damage every 60 seconds is kittened. I guess Ill switch out of my condi necro every time there are two warriors on the other side which is like 50% of the matches and every time there is one where I know the guy is a good player so that takes it up to like 70% of matches. Sheesh. Not asking for the world here just some actual fair nerfs. They did nothing to even slightly discourage playing Guardians and Warriors for next season. So we are going to have 1 million of them again. No nerfing the heal trap slightly and increasing the time of the pull is not going to reduce the Guardian population. No reducing Adrenal Health by a tiny amount is not going to reduce the popularity of Warriors one bit. And Ill be one of the bandwagoners I have been playing nothing but GS and Mace/Shield Warrior this offseason good bye Condi Necro you won’t be missed!

Oh that balance patch… was to make more builds viable in RAIDs. That is all, for the most part atleast.

Who cares about dueling rooms? Winning matches isn’t about having the best dueling build. If you’re 1v1ing as a necro, that’s your problem. The AOE damage that power necro drops is unmatched, which is wasted on 1v1s, even if you can win them all.

The keyword here is accessible, necro was not accessible for the average player. I’m not going to talk about rev much because we all kinda know it hasn’t been good,

Chrono, DH, Warrior, Druid, even Tempest can handle themselves if the situation goes bad. They can all be used in team fights, but at the same time if needed they can push for another node if needed. Thief gets away with this because of it’s superior mobility.

You’re trying to tell me that good profession design, as in for the average player who wants to pick up a necromancer and play this game, is forced to play a DPS role only with no disengage, no 1v1 potential or independence and must be properly supported by the team every single time otherwise it fails? I don’t buy it. That is not good design, you shouldn’t be a blob that just does AOE damage when other professions can fill similar roles while doing more.

DrDivine.5378:

Who cares about dueling rooms? Winning matches isn’t about having the best dueling build. If you’re 1v1ing as a necro, that’s your problem. The AOE damage that power necro drops is unmatched, which is wasted on 1v1s, even if you can win them all.

The keyword here is accessible, necro was not accessible for the average player. I’m not going to talk about rev much because we all kinda know it hasn’t been good,

Chrono, DH, Warrior, Druid, even Tempest can handle themselves if the situation goes bad. They can all be used in team fights, but at the same time if needed they can push for another node if needed. Thief gets away with this because of it’s superior mobility.

You’re trying to tell me that good profession design, as in for the average player who wants to pick up a necromancer and play this game, is forced to play a DPS role only with no disengage, no 1v1 potential or independence and must be properly supported by the team every single time otherwise it fails? I don’t buy it. That is not good design, you shouldn’t be a blob that just does AOE damage when other professions can fill similar roles while doing more.

If you want to argue that all professions should be balanced around low-skilled players, I’m sure there are people here who would love to engage you in that discussion, but I’m not your guy. All I’m saying is that necro is strong AF and has been all along. People don’t target necro first merely because it’s a more vulnerable profession. It’s mainly cos necro will tear you to pieces if left unchecked.