Why we need Platinum Division.

Why we need Platinum Division.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Crazy sustains & AoE damages.

  • double ele
  • double nec
  • Engi

Strong focus target cc+bursts

  • Double Rev (or 1 rev, 1 ranger)
  • Thief
  • War
  • Ele

No doubt there are other team comp extremes that matchmaking likes to give people but these two here… they’re the worse kind of comp balances. Sure MMR suppose to balance both sides but when you have a person who gets that “matchmaking hell” due to the above comps (or similiar) his mmr will lower due to his losses… doesn’t matter if he finishes his games with 400 – 450 or 499. Place this person on a reasonable comp team and he’ll play like a pro… making the game one sided by a 400 point margin.
Happens quite frequently.

What i’m trying to say is, Leagues absolutely needs to remove classes stacking in some form. Thanks to the bad luck matchmaking could offer, there are no doubt outlier players who have “false mmr” so, how do we achieve this while also catering to the duo and trio friends who teamQ but can’t class switch?

  • Make a new Platinum Division where once reached, class stacking is prohibited.

Every other division rewards players the same. Platinum can offer individual players a list of rewards that’s unique to this division set. Competitive non class stacking matches that doesn’t exactly take MMR into account for several reasons. Tougher because the team comps are more evenly distributed and players who make it here (you would think) are no push overs.

Suggestions welcomed.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: XGhoul.7426

XGhoul.7426

If the devs could do this idea, great, I’m all for it, but we haven’t gotten any fixes or eta to when we can queue outside hotm because of spaghetti code and how sometimes minimal updates to pve suddenly bring pvp bugs into the game which makes me really question something if like this could be pulled off.

Assuming it can:

I think the matches “might” be more competitive but you are making assumptions that someone who has spent their entire time playing one class is good (or not). Ultimately, even in the most perfect even matchmaking system there will always be 1-2 weak links, to say ideally, the teams would be exactly 50-50 is too far of a stretch (this is assuming the current population and the wide gap in knowledge between people that know how to play as a team and people that don’t).

Some other concerns which aren’t brought up are: How long would you be willing to wait/other people? Everyone has bad days once in a while which is why even though the system picks the most perfect 50-50, the teams aren’t equally skilled, even though the match may appear so.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

I think the matches “might” be more competitive but you are making assumptions that someone who has spent their entire time playing one class is good (or not). Ultimately, even in the most perfect even matchmaking system there will always be 1-2 weak links, to say ideally, the teams would be exactly 50-50 is too far of a stretch (this is assuming the current population and the wide gap in knowledge between people that know how to play as a team and people that don’t).

These “weak link” players would have to play through all the divisions without getting stuck in the “mmr hell” in previous divisions. I personally think reaching this division would weed these players out to the point where
1) It’s no longer fun for them because they actually have to try-hard.
2) The players who actually grinded out the games to get there, really aren’t as bad as people think.

We had a matchmaking in S1 that assumed all matches were 50/50 but we all had complete blowouts that said otherwise. So one could say that the expectations of a non class stacking system would yield a more balanced matchmaking.

Some other concerns which aren’t brought up are: How long would you be willing to wait/other people? Everyone has bad days once in a while which is why even though the system picks the most perfect 50-50, the teams aren’t equally skilled, even though the match may appear so.

Unfair matches is what we’re already experiencing but I have strong reason to believe that removing class stacking would increase game balancing in general.

Issue #1
Biggest downside, players would have to wait an even longer playtime compared to Legendary BUT if we limited mmr restrictions and set unique classes as a primary then that would expedite matchmaking to pick players in a pool.

Here’s questions that needs answering
If matchmaking picks players in a 15pip range based on mmr, does this range extend after a certain time limit? Does mmr still count if this range was extended? And what is the time limit for these pip ranges to increase?

If it takes 3 minutes to search outside of a 15 pip range, and 6 minutes for matchmaking to look in a 30 pip range, then in a 12 minute time frame MM would be searching a 60 -/+ pip range for potential candidates. Now… does MM still have MMR restrictions for these candidates? If so then that would increase the time even further. Either case, Anet has lowered MM to 2m at one point. One would think that’s how Platinum should be.

Issue #2
If Legendary matchmaking looks back to Diamond and in rare circumstances, Ruby division for player candidates, then Platinum would look into Legendary candidates and Diamond candidates. These candidates may not have a choice in joining a non-class stacking comp but one would think that these certain classes are soloQ players anyways. Question is, does Anet feel there are enough players in Legendary population to have a lower mmr restriction for Platinum to work in just Legendary division? More importantly will this give players an enough intensive to keep queuing if matches are, theoretically, more even on both sides?

OPTION #2
Make another game mode entirely that if queued in, will limit class stacking altogether. Only issue would be, players who are in this special queue would not be in the regular Division queue. Queue times would be based on X amount of players who chooses to queue in this way. MMR can be lowered to compensate for the lower population but the League for this queue would otherwise stay the same. At any time during the leagues, a player can enter the non-class stacking queue and be part of the new separate pool.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

There’s occasionally instantly 4 people switching professions to have a balanced comp, when I play on certain divisions, on EU servers especially.

Players have all the tools to play with competitive comps, the only thing standing in the way of that is not caring enough. I think as a playerbase we need to move more towards a culture of class switching.

Look how Overwatch does it.

Forum Lord Chaith
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Posted by: XGhoul.7426

XGhoul.7426

There’s occasionally instantly 4 people switching professions to have a balanced comp, when I play on certain divisions, on EU servers especially.

Players have all the tools to play with competitive comps, the only thing standing in the way of that is not caring enough. I think as a playerbase we need to move more towards a culture of class switching.

Look how Overwatch does it.

You brought up the biggest point on why class stacking systems are bad in general (instant swap for the the highest potential for your team to win), but the track record for this game (pvp) speaks for itself.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

There’s occasionally instantly 4 people switching professions to have a balanced comp, when I play on certain divisions, on EU servers especially.

Players have all the tools to play with competitive comps, the only thing standing in the way of that is not caring enough. I think as a playerbase we need to move more towards a culture of class switching.

Look how Overwatch does it.

Comparing apples to melons.

Overwatch has 5 very basic abilities per class which makes the game 10x easier to not just pick up classes, but easier to balance the game so that class stacking can be a non issue.

It’s easier to pickup a class in Overwatch without needing to invest hours of playtime to learn what Meta builds & combos work best. Im GW2 players are not as easily susceptible to learn more than 2 classes, let alone all 9.

Conquest is twice as more strategic while Overwatch is more precision based. Difficulty will obviously vary but with GW2, it’s more difficult watching minimap, conditions, stability boons, your cooldowns, team health & your health concurrently. Overwatch, well, not as intricate to get into. Again, apples to potatoes.

To be esports gosu, players should switch to balance their comp but it’s simply not that easy to do for the average casual GW2 player.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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Posted by: NeHoMaR.9812

NeHoMaR.9812

No need for platinum or anything, the single class per team should be for the full league. Look at eSport games like dota/lol, only one per team, no repeats. Problem: This could make queues longer.

(edited by NeHoMaR.9812)

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

i think your idea can be good but need other angle to it

you cant force ppl to change classes. you will have longer queue then ever

what anet can do it every match ppl choose their role and by that role anet will do the matchmaking

roles:

offense
defense – like sustain build
support

also by the role chosen player will get points. like if you chose support and your healing to the group wasnt that good you wont get points , but if you heal like crazy or ress etc.. you will get extra point wether you win or loss .

so even if lets assume all player will choose dps and defense and no support ppl online
anet can group them accourdingly

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

There’s occasionally instantly 4 people switching professions to have a balanced comp, when I play on certain divisions, on EU servers especially.

Players have all the tools to play with competitive comps, the only thing standing in the way of that is not caring enough. I think as a playerbase we need to move more towards a culture of class switching.

Look how Overwatch does it.

OW is completely different game with completely different mechanics /faceplam. Heroes in OW are also very balanced since it is pure pvp game.
Class switching is not that much fun in gw2, i am personally sick and tired of switching class so other players can have their “fun” and i am forced into something i hate playing.

@OP: problem with platinum division is that queue times will be even longer :|

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

There’s occasionally instantly 4 people switching professions to have a balanced comp, when I play on certain divisions, on EU servers especially.

Players have all the tools to play with competitive comps, the only thing standing in the way of that is not caring enough. I think as a playerbase we need to move more towards a culture of class switching.

Look how Overwatch does it.

OW is completely different game with completely different mechanics /faceplam. Heroes in OW are also very balanced since it is pure pvp game.
Class switching is not that much fun in gw2, i am personally sick and tired of switching class so other players can have their “fun” and i am forced into something i hate playing.

@OP: problem with platinum division is that queue times will be even longer :|

When I referenced Overwatch, I was simply referring how the community expectation is there that everyone work together to build a functional comp in quick play. I’m aware the games are completely different, I think GW2 should change.

Also, GW2 inter class balance is amazing at the moment, depending on your skill level. Intra class build diversity isn’t.

While it’s not fun to have to switch your desired hero/class in any game, the quality of life in GW2 should be much improved when class switching.

PvP would be improved so much if you could simply re-skin your character to another profession, from saved templates, inside the ready-up area, and in the mists

No logging out, just open up PvP UI and select the profession and build template from your library. The players had good comps, and lived happily ever after.

I think it’s an improvement over the idea of a division with banned class stacking.

Edit: and a no-peek ready-up area at the start of games, it’s not good to see what the enemy is running right off the bat, it just becomes buildwars2 at some point of competition.

Forum Lord Chaith
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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

^ What Chaith says about bringing up the UI and simply loading your alts in is a great idea that I’d like to see happen, though there should be no ability to do this after a match actually begins. Probably a good idea to point that out now. Though this is probably something that arena-net wouldn’t do, unfortunately. We’d have better chances asking for class stacking to stop. Honestly, it would resolve a lot of problems for the average casual solo que’ers.

Balance between classes is actually debatably the best right now than it has ever been. Diversity is still terrible, however. Every class really needs at least one alternative spec to play as that is somewhat viable in play. People get bored without this.

Also, this is in my opinion, what really needs to happen next → https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Best-Suggestion-Ever-For-Ranked-Spvp/first#post6178819

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Build templates have been asked for since launch but never implemented. The only reason I can think of is, it’s too much work for a QoL feature. They feel players can already swap or change builds easily. “It’s on the table” but they really have no intentions of implementing it.

@Trev
Removing class stacking would solve a lot of matchmaking issues. It would lower that random extremes of OP comps that unlucky players get back to back, lowering mmr. Likewise, raising mmr for a player who simply got lucky.

About your suggestion, people would rage if that system was implemented. The reason the current system is good (besides the fact it took Anet literally 1 whole year to test) is because it caters to casuals, the people who play 24/7, and the pro players both. Yours is too specific to just 1 aspect; a system that was heavily flawed. Anet will likely never go back to it.

The current league system is good but matchmaking needs a fixin’.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: Shiyo.3578

Shiyo.3578

There’s occasionally instantly 4 people switching professions to have a balanced comp, when I play on certain divisions, on EU servers especially.

Players have all the tools to play with competitive comps, the only thing standing in the way of that is not caring enough. I think as a playerbase we need to move more towards a culture of class switching.

Look how Overwatch does it.

Overwatch is like 4 buttons per class and no specs or amulet or sigils or runes or anything like that.

Overwatch gives you all characters, this game requires you to spend like $50 to unlock enough slots for every class.
While I do agree people need to learn to swap class, these two games are not comparable.

I think class stacking does need to be addressed, as the OP has said, but I have no idea how to fix it. I think making ranked 5 man queue only would be the best fix tbh.